New thread vs. changed Subject line (was Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...)

2021-09-17 Thread The Wanderer 
On 2021-09-17 at 15:25, David Christensen wrote:

> On 9/17/21 1:46 AM, Brian wrote:
> 
>> However, a new discussion should be started in a*new*  thread, not
>> plonked willy-nilly into an existing thread. This is the second
>> time recently that someone has done that. The first time it
>> involved  an experienced user!
> 
> Guilty as charged.  :-(
> 
> Using Thunderbird, clicking "Reply List" and changing the Subject to
> "new subject [was: old subject]" is NOT the way to do it.  Clicking
> "Write", and cutting and pasting the Subject and/or body into a new
> message is what I should have done.

I'm not so sure.

I don't recall the exact case at hand here, but generally, if the new
topic bears a close enough derived relation from the older one that it
makes sense to use that "Was: [old subject]" notation in the Subject
line, then IMO replying in-place *is* the correct way to do it. (Barring
specific, case-dependent reasons otherwise.)

That Subject-line notation is for the case when the topic of the thread
has drifted, and you're adjusting the Subject line in your reply to
reflect the new topic, but you're still going to be quoting the previous
message in order to respond to it.

If that's not what you're doing - if you're starting a new topic
entirely, that bears no particular relation to the other message,
including not quoting its contents - then using that type of
Subject-line notation doesn't make sense, and neither does starting your
message via a "reply" action.

However, if that *is* what you're doing, then not only is that not
inherently a reason to start a new thread from scratch, but IMO doing so
would usually be inappropriate - because it separates the new message
from proximity to the one to which its contents are a reply, thus making
it harder to see the full context of the new message.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-17 Thread David Christensen 

On 9/17/21 1:46 AM, Brian wrote:

However, a new discussion should be started in a*new*  thread, not
plonked willy-nilly into an existing thread. This is the second time
recently that someone has done that. The first time it involved  an
experienced user!



Guilty as charged.  :-(


Using Thunderbird, clicking "Reply List" and changing the Subject to 
"new subject [was: old subject]" is NOT the way to do it.  Clicking 
"Write", and cutting and pasting the Subject and/or body into a new 
message is what I should have done.



David

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-17 Thread Stefan Monnier 
> edges of text characters. So if showing a screen full of text to show 
> the error, smunch the daylights out of it, it will still be readable. 

Whatever happened to the idea of citing the actual text rather than
using an (unreadable) image?


Stefan

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-17 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 17 September 2021 09:10:01 Stefan Monnier wrote:

> > edges of text characters. So if showing a screen full of text to
> > show the error, smunch the daylights out of it, it will still be
> > readable.
>
> Whatever happened to the idea of citing the actual text rather than
> using an (unreadable) image?
>
>
> Stefan

Beats hell outta me Stefan, but a copy/paste from a terminal screen beats 
ALL the other methods for compression. But that involves launching 
whatever from a terminal screen, requiring the user to actaully type the 
command.

Oh the horrors...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-17 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Friday 17 September 2021 04:46:20 Brian wrote:

> On Thu 16 Sep 2021 at 21:48:55 -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:46:43 -0300
> >
> > Dedeco Balaco  wrote:
> > > Why am i unable to start a new discussion? I have sent 4 messages!
> > > They have one attachment that is less than 150KiB - so, they are
> > > not considered big, for the list, right?
> >
> > I consider 150 KiB to be monstrous.
> >
> > Have you tried sending a short message with no attachment?
>
> Dedeco Balaco already has two short messages showing in this thread.
> That indicates he has the ability to start a new discussion.
>
> However, a new discussion should be started in a *new* thread, not
> plonked willy-nilly into an existing thread. This is the second time
> recently that someone has done that. The first time it involved  an
> experienced user!
>
> To take this thread further off-topic: there can be a good reason to
> send an attachment; for example, a log. Compression would reduce its
> size and is advised.

Likewise, a screenshot of a problem should be loaded into gimp, 
re-exported as a .jpg,  compressed until the colors are all screwed up. 
Leaving the compression at 12% quality will get a 250k screen shot, 
which will be blocked but jpeg throws away color before it throws away 
edges of text characters. So if showing a screen full of text to show 
the error, smunch the daylights out of it, it will still be readable. 
Even then its uo to the filters to say yay or nay.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-17 Thread Brian 
On Thu 16 Sep 2021 at 21:48:55 -0600, Charles Curley wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:46:43 -0300
> Dedeco Balaco  wrote:
> 
> > Why am i unable to start a new discussion? I have sent 4 messages!
> > They have one attachment that is less than 150KiB - so, they are not
> > considered big, for the list, right?
> 
> I consider 150 KiB to be monstrous.
> 
> Have you tried sending a short message with no attachment?

Dedeco Balaco already has two short messages showing in this thread.
That indicates he has the ability to start a new discussion.

However, a new discussion should be started in a *new* thread, not
plonked willy-nilly into an existing thread. This is the second time
recently that someone has done that. The first time it involved  an
experienced user!

To take this thread further off-topic: there can be a good reason to
send an attachment; for example, a log. Compression would reduce its
size and is advised.

-- 
Brian.

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-16 Thread tomas 
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 09:48:55PM -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:46:43 -0300
> Dedeco Balaco  wrote:
> 
> > Why am i unable to start a new discussion? I have sent 4 messages!
> > They have one attachment that is less than 150KiB - so, they are not
> > considered big, for the list, right?
> 
> I consider 150 KiB to be monstrous.
> 
> Have you tried sending a short message with no attachment?

I'd say... yes: the start of this thread kind of proves [1] it.

So most probably the attachment is part of the problem.

@Dedeco: as Greg says, spam filtering is a complex thing. As far as
I know, this list uses SpamAssassin, which is based on rules and
heuristics -- and lots of tuning (thanks to the team behind it,
otherwise we would be drowning in spam!)

Someone said 150k is "monstrous". This depends on the context, of
course. But for a mailing list this size (we have roughly 3k
subscribed members [2]), 150k seems a bit heavy, yes. I wouldn't
do it.

Cheers

[1] for a very sloppy value of "proof" :)
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/

 - t


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Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-16 Thread Charles Curley 
On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:46:43 -0300
Dedeco Balaco  wrote:

> Why am i unable to start a new discussion? I have sent 4 messages!
> They have one attachment that is less than 150KiB - so, they are not
> considered big, for the list, right?

I consider 150 KiB to be monstrous.

Have you tried sending a short message with no attachment?

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: (unable to start a new discussion) Re: Can surf the internet, but not my home network...

2021-09-16 Thread Greg Wooledge 
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 07:46:43PM -0300, Dedeco Balaco wrote:
> Why am i unable to start a new discussion? I have sent 4 messages! They
> have one attachment that is less than 150KiB - so, they are not
> considered big, for the list, right?

I don't know what the maximum allowed attachment size is, but 150 kB is
very large.  That could quite easily be the reason your messages are
being dropped, or classified as spam.

Spam filtering is complex, and the size of the attachment, together
with your mail provider being yahoo, could both be contributing to
some sort of score-based spam identification system.