Re: [OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:58:11 -0500, John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen writes: ...ideas can be patented if, and _only_ if... No. _Inventions_ can be patented etc, etc. 'Idea' is not a synonym for'invention'. ..correct, and some innovations are not patented even if used commercially. Now, the legal definition of 'innovation' is also a variable, they are usually variants of the new ideas that has technological effects when implemented theme. (AFAIK, I'm not talking US patent law here, but international.) ..and I also missed finishing this bit: ..whether or not patentable ideas are viable commercially, is consequently _irrelevant_ in all civilized jurisdictions, as commerciability is not a technological effect on anything ...commerciability is not a technological effect of the idea, it may however provide a business opportunity that makes the patenting of the idea, a profitable investment. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
Hubert Chan writes: Ideas cannot be copyrighted. In order to protect an idea, you need to patent it... You are not supposed to be able to patent an idea either. Unfortunately the distinction between an idea and an invention escapes the USPTO (and most judges as well). -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:47:38 -0500, John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hubert Chan writes: Ideas cannot be copyrighted. In order to protect an idea, you need to patent it... You are not supposed to be able to patent an idea either. Unfortunately the distinction between an idea and an invention escapes the USPTO (and most judges as well). ..in civilized countries however, ideas can be patented if, and _only_ if: 1. they indeed are new, _and_ 2. provide a reproducible technical effect _and_ 3. this reproducible technical effect is a product of _either_ 4a. a new method (such as an hand grenade for fishing) _or_ 4b. a new tool (such a laser gun for fishing), _and_ if 5. the anyone reasonably knowledgeable with prior art in the relevant technical field, can reproduce the technical effect by combining prior art with the patented idea _for_ 6. commercial or governmental use. ..fair use is allowed, as is innovation in the field, a new competing idea to (re)produce the same technical effect, must be _different_ in either methodics _or_ introduce a new tool. ..whether or not patentable ideas are viable commercially, is consequently _irrelevant_ in all civilized jurisdictions, as commerciability is not a technological effect on anything ..this means that software patents can only cover methods or tools if they are part of the means to reproduce the technical effect, because and _only_ because said method or tool needs _that_ software, and is null and void as soon as anyone writes _another_ piece of software to replace _that_ software. ..ditto for biz patents covering business methodics, the ideas in these can be used legally by copycat competitors to beat the original out of business. And the copycats are usually denied access to the original, say, franchise chains resources, such as logos, again legally. ..furthermore, anyone may use, say, IBM logo, to, say, organize a boycott on IBM, or Tux to lobby a ban on Linux, as long as it is clear that the boycott lobbyists does not use said logos to represent themselves as IBM or pro-Linux, if they use said logos to represent themselves as anti-IBM or anti-Linux, or for spite or ridicule, this is all 'fair use' under the law; Microsoft may _legally_ use Tux to ask the American Public You saw the Twin Towers fall; Who has cost America the most, Microsoft, al-Quaeda or this stupid bird?. ;-) ..however, _expressions_ of ideas, such as a book, or a logo, or software, are covered by copyright law, and can only be covered by copyright law. 2+2 is just _one_ way to express 4, and it is an _old_ way. .._expressions_ of ideas, such as books, or logos, or software covered by copyright law, are usually also covered by contract law, because most people don't write everything damned they need, they buy stuff, and usually under contracts. Contract law allows the Microsoft EULA to limit their buyers, their rights under copyright law to use what they paid for, and under the GPL, it is used to expand some rights under copyright law and to limit other rights, under both copyright law and contract law; You may sell my software under the GPL, if and only if, you give me your source so I can sell your software under the GPL.. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
Arnt Karlsen writes: ...ideas can be patented if, and _only_ if... No. _Inventions_ can be patented etc, etc. 'Idea' is not a synonym for 'invention'. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
What if we made a GPL for Ideas? Write up your idea, and licence it under a GPL like licence. Since I cannot just get a thing done or manufactured, perhaps I can get my idea accomplished by simply sharing it...? I thought of this, again, while reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/28/technology/circuits/28wind.html ... and: http://www.vestas.dk/ I was thinking about how things like that could be done under a GPL or open hardware like system, with an industry co-op for research and design sharing, college tuition scholarships, internships, etc... they could licence the blueprints in some way that would ensure that nobody takes over and overcompetes for a sales area or something... but there could be more factories and distributed world wide to simplify logistics for new ones and _compatible_ replacement parts. These wind-dragons --- will they slow the wind down, and thus prevent air pollution from being flushed from our cities? Never mind. -- Karl M. Hegbloom [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT-ish] IGPL - Idea General Public Licence
Karl == Karl M Hegbloom [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Karl What if we made a GPL for Ideas? Write up your idea, and licence Karl it under a GPL like licence. Since I cannot just get a thing done Karl or manufactured, perhaps I can get my idea accomplished by simply Karl sharing it...? Ideas cannot be copyrighted. In order to protect an idea, you need to patent it, which costs money and effort, and then you can make a license, but it's not really worth it if you're just going to give it away. What some people have done (unfortunately, I don't have a link) is to write up ideas, thus providing documentation for prior art, which prevents others from patenting your idea. But that won't force people who use your idea to open up improvements on your idea. Karl I was thinking about how things like that could be done under a Karl GPL or open hardware like system, with an industry co-op for Karl research and design sharing, college tuition scholarships, Karl internships, etc... they could licence the blueprints in some way Karl that would ensure that nobody takes over and overcompetes for a Karl sales area or something... but there could be more factories and Karl distributed world wide to simplify logistics for new ones and Karl _compatible_ replacement parts. Designs and blueprints are probably copyrightable (maybe depending on jurisdiction), and so you could apply the GPL, FDL (without invariant sections, etc.), or any other free license. -- Hubert Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.uhoreg.ca/ PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7 5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net. Encrypted e-mail preferred. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
