Re: DVD on Linux?
due to patents problem, it is impossible to have open-source software only DVD player. It is possible however to have: Hmmm. Does anybody know if these patents apply in the UK or Europe? It seems ridiculous that they are pushing to make this technology commonplace, when you have to pay to use it, effectively. Do CD's work on this basis too? frankie OK, in answer to my question: http://features.linuxtoday.com/stories/8940.html (interview with RMS) about halfway down. I think this means that it would be legal to write a software only decoder in the UK and (some of) Europe. It would, however, be illegal to use it in US, cos of it's shortsighted, biased and unfair patent laws. My other question still stands, does the fact that CD's and CD-players have a compact disc logo on mean that the hardware is patented and that sony gets lots of money for every CD sold? -- ,-. Frankie Fisher | frankie @| Drum'n'Bass tunes and samples. skunkpussy.freeserve.co.uk | http://www.skunkpussy.freeserve.co.uk/ PGP Key available on request. | `-' pgpbMGcZvVKVr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 05:42:30PM -0700, Brian Kidder wrote:
Frankie Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think this means that it would be legal to write a software only decoder
in the UK and (some of) Europe. It would, however, be illegal to use it in
US, cos of it's shortsighted, biased and unfair patent laws.
Sorry. That was probably a little bit harsh, and thoughtless.
Not being very familiar with the UK's patent system, I'm curious:
What about the US patent system do you find objectionable?
-Brian Kidder
In my opinion, the US laws regarding software patents are wrong.
The patent laws (as I understand them, and I am not an expert) vastly favour
companies.
If an American programmer writes a program, and it happens to infringe some
software patent (which, according to the likes of RMS and slashdot, are handed
out willy-nilly with few checks to ensure that they are valid), then he may be
forced to stop using this program, or sued, or forced to pay royalties on an
algorithm which he (as well as the company) invented. Part of the nature of
programming is coming up with new solutions to (new) problems.
What I particularly dislike (about my perceived view of the American patent
system) is that this programmer may or may not be within the law in his use
of the patented code, but the chances are there is nothing he can do but
comply with whatever the large company wishes.
He cannot afford to fight a (potentially long) battle in the courts, let alone
afford to conduct a `prior art' search; nor can he afford to register any
software patents in his own name (in order that he may have a bargaining point,
and
cross-license / counter sue the company), because the cost is quite high
compared to one man's expendible income.
This is perhaps more a flaw in capitalism, and the western legal system, but
overall it involves freedom and power being taken off the individual and into
then hands of those who already have power (such as companies/etc).
Also I am led to believe (again by the likes of RMS and slashdot) that a lot
of US software patents are handed out without proper searches being carried
out. This means that a lot of bogus patents are currently held, and the
expense to sort this out in the courts will ultimately have to come out of
the pockets of individual programmers, because otherwise they are the ones
who will lose out.
At the moment, the US government/business lobby is pressuring the European
patent rules to be changed to allow software patents USA-style (currently
they only allow patents on software and hardware working together or
something).
To software patents as M$ et al. want them, I say: begone.
frankie
P.S. significant portions of this may be {bigoted,wrong,misinformed,\
ill-judged,communist,so true that you have to go out and do something about
it} for which I accept no responsibility.
P.P.S. Blame RMS+slashdot+linux press for spreading FUD if I am wrong.
--
,-.
Frankie Fisher |
frankie @| Drum'n'Bass tunes and samples.
skunkpussy.freeserve.co.uk | http://www.skunkpussy.freeserve.co.uk/
PGP Key available on request. |
`-'
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Re: DVD on Linux?
On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 01:14:44AM +0100, Frankie Fisher wrote: [snip snip] My other question still stands, does the fact that CD's and CD-players have a compact disc logo on mean that the hardware is patented and that sony gets lots of money for every CD sold? [sig snip] I heard sony does get a royalty for each and every cd and cd player sold. But, I am not affiliated with sony, nor am I a patent lawyer. I undertstand this is one reason why Sony is trying to bring their new audio technology to light, something like SuperCD or some such -- so the royalties do not stop. :) -- Seth Arnold | ICQ 3172483 | http://cswww.willamette.edu/~sarnold/ I prosecute unsolicited bulk emails, using the RealTime BlackHole List. You should too. Ask me how, or visit http://maps.vix.com/rbl/
Re: DVD on Linux?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Frankie Fisher wrote: In my opinion, the US laws regarding software patents are wrong. The patent laws (as I understand them, and I am not an expert) vastly favour companies. I'd have to agree with you there... He cannot afford to fight a (potentially long) battle in the courts, let alone afford to conduct a `prior art' search; nor can he afford to register any software patents in his own name (in order that he may have a bargaining point, and cross-license / counter sue the company), because the cost is quite high compared to one man's expendible income. That's not just a problem with patents. Some companies will sue for trademark infringement or even trademark dillution (which AFIAC means nothing) to shut up critics. Most people just take down the criticism rather than spend tons of money on a lawyer... This is perhaps more a flaw in capitalism, and the western legal system, but overall it involves freedom and power being taken off the individual and into then hands of those who already have power (such as companies/etc). Also I am led to believe (again by the likes of RMS and slashdot) that a lot of US software patents are handed out without proper searches being carried out. This means that a lot of bogus patents are currently held, and the expense to sort this out in the courts will ultimately have to come out of the pockets of individual programmers, because otherwise they are the ones who will lose out. Don't forget that companies get patents on the stupidest things... For anyone who doesn't already know, read the /. articles about insane patents. http://slashdot.org/articles/99/07/14/1846204_F.shtml and http://slashdot.org/articles/980821/1429203.shtml are good for starters. At the moment, the US government/business lobby is pressuring the European patent rules to be changed to allow software patents USA-style (currently they only allow patents on software and hardware working together or something). i sincerely hope they don't succeed. Maybe we should get together a petition to end all this US patent nonsense? Not that it'd actually work, unless Debian wants to kick in the money they get from all those spammers ;) - -- finger for PGP public key. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBN8OL5L7M/9WKZLW5AQFLjgP/TIAuM8Mb4C2PdPgc+B6BXj/6+OhIj515 RyVseMwpC7cerqOD16qKKOu46b+plwMs3Q3eAwbPOVbhQiJ3yR7zK47k+KXad0EV L1mK11ZT1x+QWqZ8Iy3KpAvcNRQTphSur0suFf6v3+X4yq5U2dKhWOqLdwbBUBHN JAWzbkWwBwQ= =Ilx1 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. -- Mark Brown mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Trying to avoid grumpiness) http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~broonie/ EUFShttp://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/filmsoc/ pgpMHFFH2zo4P.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Mark Brown wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. hmm... i believe that is not true due to patents problem, it is impossible to have open-source software only DVD player. It is possible however to have: 1. closed source commercial software only DVD player - author pays royalty out of income selling decoder to you 2. hardware based DVD player with GPLed driver - hardware manufacturer pays royalty adding it to player cost i believe you can get hw DVD player with Linux driver (panasonic comes to mind ?) OK
Re: DVD on Linux?
Mark Brown wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. Oh Man! This means I've talked my sister into a Linux box for nothing; playing DVDs was an important issue for her. At least we're still in the planning stage. I guess it's back to her original plan of getting a blue-box G3 (at three times the cost). At least I'll be able to put LinuxPPC on it
Re: [Re: DVD on Linux?]
current developement is underway do develope DVD on linux.. http://livid.on.openprojects.net/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
Re: DVD on Linux?
Kent West wrote: Oh Man! This means I've talked my sister into a Linux box for nothing; playing DVDs was an important issue for her. At least we're still in the planning stage. I guess it's back to her original plan of getting a blue-box G3 (at three times the cost). At least I'll be able to put LinuxPPC on it If playing DVDs is a big issues then, yes, Linux is not a good idea at the moment. However, this may change shortly... there are several LInux-DVD projects out there that are working on a solution linuxdvd.corepower.com is the home page for one of them. the folks at LinuxTV(www.linuxtv.org) have also developed a DVD hardware decoder/driver, and are looking for a company to market it. Within the next 6 months to a year DVDs on Linux should be a (small) reality, although only a small subset of the current hardware will probably be supported. --Evan
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Kent West wrote: Mark Brown wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. Oh Man! This means I've talked my sister into a Linux box for nothing; playing DVDs was an important issue for her. At least we're still in the planning stage. I guess it's back to her original plan of getting a blue-box G3 (at three times the cost). At least I'll be able to put LinuxPPC on it check http://linuxdvd.corepower.com and http://livid.on.openprojects.net OK
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 02:16 -0500, Kent West wrote: Mark Brown wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. Oh Man! This means I've talked my sister into a Linux box for nothing; playing DVDs was an important issue for her. At least we're still in the planning stage. I guess it's back to her original plan of getting a blue-box G3 (at three times the cost). At least I'll be able to put LinuxPPC on it The problem with that of course is that a lot of DVD films with DVD-ROM content (stuff like scripts, web-links etc) you can only access the DVD-ROM extras via windows (since it's the _only_ OS anyone ever uses. Isn't it? :) Cheers Dave -- Dave Swegen | Debian 2.1 on Linux i386 2.2.3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | PGP key available on request [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Linux: The Choice of a GNU Generation ---
Re: DVD on Linux?
Dave Swegen wrote: snip about DVD not available on Linux yet snip about getting a Macintosh G3 instead then instead of a Linux box The problem with that of course is that a lot of DVD films with DVD-ROM content (stuff like scripts, web-links etc) you can only access the DVD-ROM extras via windows (since it's the _only_ OS anyone ever uses. Isn't it? :) This is getting uglier and uglier. Okay, what about this then? Is it possible to get a video card with a TV input that will work with Linux, then get a stand-alone DVD player and plug it into the Linux box's video card? Control of the DVD player would all be via the player's front panel/remote control; i.e. there'd be no software control of the player. Still, this might be a better answer anyway since it means the player could be moved from the computer to a TV to a projector back to the Linux box. Also we'd be able to plug a VCR or cable signal into the Linux box this way. Any comments?
Re: DVD on Linux?
On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:25:24PM -0500, Oleg Krivosheev wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Mark Brown wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 12:30:39AM -0700, Ramiel G. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any DVD players out there for Linux? Due to restrictions on the decoding algorithms and (I presume) the specs for chips used in hardware decoders there aren't any. hmm... i believe that is not true due to patents problem, it is impossible to have open-source software only DVD player. It is possible however to have: Hmmm. Does anybody know if these patents apply in the UK or Europe? It seems ridiculous that they are pushing to make this technology commonplace, when you have to pay to use it, effectively. Do CD's work on this basis too? frankie -- ,-. Frankie Fisher| Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that frankie @ | the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of skunkpussy.freeserve.co.uk | reasons, will somehow work for the benefit PGP Key available on request. | of us all. -- John Maynard Keynes `-' pgpI0QW4nKHWP.pgp Description: PGP signature
