Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 05:57:00PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 05:53:59PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > When linux was first written, the IBM PC was 15 years old. > > *10 > > I'm not sure if it's math or typing that's hard All three of them, actually ;-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 13:06:40 (-0600), Charles Curley wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 12:20:05 -0400 > gene heskett wrote: > > > Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the > > mouse. > > charles@hawk:~$ apt show gpm [ … ] > Description: General Purpose Mouse interface > This package provides a daemon that captures mouse events when the system > console is active, and delivers events to applications through a library. > . > By default, the daemon provides a 'selection' mode, so that > cut-and-paste with the mouse works on the console just as it does > under X. Sure, I always install gpm, and it might even be on my list because donkey's years ago you needed it for cut and paste on X, using the -R repeater mode. But cutting from a VC more or less forces you to paste to an intermediate file, which you can then copy into a graphical email client. To do that requires another VC for the paste, and all this complication is just so that the OP doesn't find out how to use a text terminal that I'm sure they're running as a matter of course. (Sure, you can keep a car in the garage and spend Sunday afternoons listening to the radio and waggling the steering wheel, but the idea is that you learn to drive.) I don't think someone who can barely remember Ctrl-Alt-F3 is going to do much inter-VC cut and pasting. Cheers, David.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 05:53:59PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: When linux was first written, the IBM PC was 15 years old. *10 I'm not sure if it's math or typing that's hard
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:06:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote: On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote: The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does. new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux was first written... If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the school. Bios has been around since the first IBM PC, or before. When linux was first written, the IBM PC was 15 years old. UEFI 2.0 (the form used in basically everything these days) was released in 2006, 16 years ago. QED, UEFI has been around longer now than the PC BIOS was when linux was introduced. You can push the antecedents of the PC BIOS a back a few years to CP/M in the mid 70s, but you can likewise trace EFI to its genesis in the itanium project in the late 90s. At any rate, UEFI makes a lot more sense for booting a modern system than does a compatibility layer trying to emulate a 50-year-old 16-bit microcomputer. UEFI was microsofts failed attempt to lock people into dos/windows about 20 years ago when unix/linux was beginning to eat their lunch. Please just stop the editorializing, especially when it isn't based in actual facts.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Monday, June 13, 2022 11:35:29 AM Greg Wooledge wrote: > Let's get some actual numbers in here. From wikipedia: > > IBM PC with proprietary BIOS introduced: 1981 > Linus Torvalds begins writing Linux: 1991 Efforts started toward EFI (predecessor in some sense of UEFI) -- see below: 1998 > Intel stops doing EFI and starts contributing to UEFI: 2005 > Current year: 2022 > > Number of years PC BIOS had been around when Linux started: 10 > Number of years UEFI has been around now: 17 > > I don't know how well those two numbers are supposed to indicate that > UEFI "isn't new-fangled", but there they are. Very interesting / helpful. I wanted to see when EFI (the predecessor to UEFI) came into the picture. In the Wikipedia article [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#History] [Unified Extensible Firmware Interface]] I found: The original motivation for EFI came during early development of the first Intel–HP Itanium systems in the mid-1990s. BIOS limitations (such as 16-bit real mode, 1MB addressable memory space,[7] assembly language programming, and PC AT hardware) had become too restrictive for the larger server platforms Itanium was targeting.[8] The effort to address these concerns began in 1998 and was initially called Intel Boot Initiative.[9] It was later renamed to Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI).[10][11] So it looks like the effort towards that started in 1998. -- A picture, sketch, diagram, or chart is worth a thousand words -- divide by 10 for each minute of video (or audio) -- or, where feasible, create a transcript and edit it to 10% of the original! (Oxford comma included in this sig at no charge.)
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:06:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote: > > new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux > > was first written... > If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the school. *sigh* Let's get some actual numbers in here. From wikipedia: IBM PC with proprietary BIOS introduced: 1981 Linus Torvalds begins writing Linux: 1991 Intel stops doing EFI and starts contributing to UEFI: 2005 Current year: 2022 Number of years PC BIOS had been around when Linux started: 10 Number of years UEFI has been around now: 17 I don't know how well those two numbers are supposed to indicate that UEFI "isn't new-fangled", but there they are.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote: On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote: The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does. new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux was first written... If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the school. Bios has been around since the first IBM PC, or before. UEFI was microsofts failed attempt to lock people into dos/windows about 20 years ago when unix/linux was beginning to eat their lunch. So having twigged that I'd initially have the installer do its thing. Yes, most of his problems seem to stem from trying to do things his own way, often with a rationale that's simply incorrect. When someone tries to figure out what's wrong they're starting in a hole--first needing to reverse engineer the unrevealed set of actions that led to the mess in the first place. You forget that I have been fixing things with battery's or line cord's since long before you were born. I was fixing radio's for cig money a year after end of WW-II. WOI-TV out of Iowa State college, the first tv station in Iowa was still 2 years in the future. Microsofts attempt to impose UEFI on the industry is just one of the reasons there are no operating windows machines out of the 6 that run 24/7 here. 4 of them carve wood or metal, running code I wrote, the 5th runs a 3d printer to make things I design in OpenSCAD on this machine, and this one. And they all boot linux from the bios. The bios may have UEFI, but if it can't be turned off, they won't get ANY of my cash OR card numbers. Since it is my money, it is my choice, and its not open for discussion. You have been helpful on this list for a long time, and the fact that you and I don't see eye to eye does not prevent me from saying: take care, and stay well Michael. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote: The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does. new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux was first written... So having twigged that I'd initially have the installer do its thing. Yes, most of his problems seem to stem from trying to do things his own way, often with a rationale that's simply incorrect. When someone tries to figure out what's wrong they're starting in a hole--first needing to reverse engineer the unrevealed set of actions that led to the mess in the first place.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
rhkra...@gmail.com writes: > IIRC, the bootable flag is pretty much irrelevant in Linux -- it doesn't have > to be set to boot from a partitions. Am I mis-remembering? I remember I once had an Intel motherboard where the BIOS wouldn't boot a partition if it wasn't set to bootable. But as you say, the bootable flag was completely irrelevant to Linux to be sure. Just not the BIOS. Shouldn't be relevant on any hardware from this decade or the previous one.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 2022-06-12 18:34, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: On Sunday 12 June 2022 12:54:19 pm mick crane wrote: As mentioned before, if it was me, I'd remove everything except the disk thing you want to boot with that has the OS on it and add and get things working one at a time afterwards. Were I running into these kinds of hassles, that would be my approach as well. The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does. So having twigged that I'd initially have the installer do its thing. mick
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 12:20:05 -0400 gene heskett wrote: > Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the > mouse. charles@hawk:~$ apt show gpm Package: gpm Version: 1.20.7-8 Priority: optional Section: misc Maintainer: Axel Beckert Installed-Size: 553 kB Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.54~) Depends: lsb-base (>= 3.2-13), ucf, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libc6 (>= 2.15), libgpm2 (>= 1.20.7) Homepage: https://nico.schottelius.org/software/gpm/ Tag: hardware::input, hardware::input:mouse, implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, interface::text-mode, network::server, role::program Download-Size: 200 kB APT-Manual-Installed: yes APT-Sources: http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages Description: General Purpose Mouse interface This package provides a daemon that captures mouse events when the system console is active, and delivers events to applications through a library. . By default, the daemon provides a 'selection' mode, so that cut-and-paste with the mouse works on the console just as it does under X. charles@hawk:~$ -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 17:00:42 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 12:20:05PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: > > > > What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. > > > For me, konsole does fine -- I can C&P from it with the mouse (and, > > > presumably, > > > keystrokes). > > Well, I gave up and did another 29t install, but in trying to leave out the > > dependecy hell of broken packages trying to install tde-trinity so I could > > get back to familiar, bug free services. but I had to install some gfx just > > to get x or wayland. > > > > Hi Gene, > > I _really_ don't know why I'm doing this ... Because you are kind, considerate and concerned? Me? I'm just along for the ride and, in the meantime, have installed Debian on another three machines. If *I* was on my 26th attempt I would be beginning to think of another approach. But the OP is the OP. Keeping at it will get nowhere. -- Brian.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday 11 June 2022 08:17:26 pm gene heskett wrote: > I tried to do that in gimp before I sent it, but all the menu's are > changed from what I am used to, I could select and save what I wanted, > clear the frame and paste what I'd outlined and saved, but I got the > whole thing back when I pasted, several times so I'm going to have to > learn gimp all over again. That sort of wholesale rearranging of a user interface, for no reason that's apparent to me, is a lot of why I'm often not in any big hurry to upgrade... Dunno why they think they need to do that. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sunday 12 June 2022 12:54:19 pm mick crane wrote: > As mentioned before, if it was me, I'd remove everything except the disk > thing you want to boot with that has the OS on it and add and get things > working one at a time afterwards. Were I running into these kinds of hassles, that would be my approach as well. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 12:53:31 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On 6/12/22 12:34, David Wright wrote: > > On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 19:41:34 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > Thanks all, I think I'm making progress. But apparently I'm a new bee at > > > raid stuff. Hmmm, I just noted that htop is showing zero swap. Checking > > > fstab against blkid, shows swap with a totally different blkid. > > > I'll see if I can do a copy paste to fix that. Yup, a root swapon -av and > > > now I have swap. And /opt was missing too, its on the raid but empty so > > > that was added by copy/paste. A simple mount /opt fixes that. > > > > > > Now, are these bklid's stable enough I can mount the bigger drive and > > > just copy this fstab over the existing one? > > AFAIK, blkid is a command that lists attributes or messes up your > > system. Hence this, in bold, from its man page: > > > > It is recommended to use lsblk(8) command to get information about > > block devices, or lsblk --fs to get an overview of filesystems, or > > findmnt(8) to search in already mounted filesystems. > > > > So it's the attributes that should concern you, like LABELs and UUIDs. > > > > In your narrative above, you'll probably lose swap each time you > > reinstall, because you've set a swap in the partitioner. I always > > avoid that. Any 21st century PC should be able to install with > > needing to swap. > > That is a useful clue, I'll leave it out of the next install since > I've 32G of dram in this box. Swap is generally used only if I get > stupid with OpenSCAD. > > But as IUI, swap is cleaned out reboot, so theoretically I should be > able to the the same 60Gig /dev/md1 for both boots by adding it to > fstab, and issuing a swapon. The cleaning out is not the point: you need to ID it, but can't use the /dev/sdX to do that. > And since both are bullseye, /home s/b > interchangeable too. But since I now have a working install with > effectively no tools except mc, I am blocked at every turn I try to > use to get around that blockade. If someone could tell me which x > desktop I could install, that doesn't crash and burn from un-fixable > dependencies trying to install tde-trinity, I'd be well on they way to > getting back to productive use of this machine. That's for others. I don't know where your tools are. In some cases, it's probably because you're using the wrong tool, as I just pointed out for blkid: you should be using lsblk. And you shouldn't need a desktop to install, configure and maintain your system. Cheers, David.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 12:20:05PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: > > > What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. > > For me, konsole does fine -- I can C&P from it with the mouse (and, > > presumably, > > keystrokes). > Well, I gave up and did another 29t install, but in trying to leave out the > dependecy hell of broken packages trying to install tde-trinity so I could > get back to familiar, bug free services. but I had to install some gfx just > to get x or wayland. > Hi Gene, I _really_ don't know why I'm doing this ... You've stripped out the other disks so now you have a minimal machine with one disk and your RAID. Disconnect all the leads other than keyboard/mouse, one printer. Go back to the step by step list: if you're blowing away the installation you have: 1. Set the firmware to use UEFI and use it - you'll only have to do it once. 2. Select the *expert* mode - even graphical expert will do for tthe install 3. Go carefully through the installer - there's an option to use the RAID without formatting it and losing all your work. 4. Set the single 1TB to be formatted, use LVM Mount the RAID where you want it to be by specifying the mount point - if you click on the drive, it will give you options. 5. Carry on through: one of the options is to set a root password for root. If you *don't* then you get the sudo solution 6. On tasksel selection screen de-select all bar standard system and, perhaps, ssh server. Keep it minimal. 7. Then complete the install and reboot. If you don't have synaptic until you have graphics, use apt - it's the basis for what synaptic is doing graphically anyway. 8. At that point, install TDE - which should also pull in the needed graphics libraries. 9 Profit :) Honestly, you are making this harder for yourself than it ever needs to be, I think. LVM will allow stuff that _needs_ to grow to grow slowly without you needing to bother to specify partitions. The one gotcha might be swap - but, then again,you have swap on your RAID and know how to use swapon command. All the very best, as ever, Andy Cater > That's not the important first impression however. Installing without a root > pw, I am prevented from doing anything to the system setup cuz everything > but synaptic wants a root pw, and does not accept my pw as user 1000 for > sudo. Security seems entirely too paranoid. Ant time I change back to the > gfx screen, I have to go thru the whole login rigermarole so I waste about a > minute because the gfx are so slow. > Root is barred from logging on to X for good reason :) If you _really_ want root to login graphically, you can change settings on the login manager. > Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the mouse. > but the main package manager, which doesn't seem to have a name but is 100% > graphical, refuses to show me a recognizable terminal of any kind. > > Also, installing on /dev/sda, a new 1T samsung, has destroyed my ability to > do a dual boot by selecting the other drive in the bios menu. It gets stuck, > probably looking for the raid, says press enter to continue and when I do it > just gets stuck in the same loop. > > and without blkid, I can't fix that. And to fix that, I need bllkid, which > isn't installed, and I can't install its parent pkg with synaptic or apt due > to broken packages that apt-get --fix-broken refuses to fix. > > I have the old bullseye install mounted to /mnt/sdc#'s so I have access and > could probably run blkid from there but where is it? Where does it normally > live? I'll hunt around and see if I can find it in the other install. > > Cheers all, Gene Heskett. >
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 6/12/22 12:41, Dan Ritter wrote: gene heskett wrote: On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: That's not the important first impression however. Installing without a root pw, I am prevented from doing anything to the system setup cuz everything but synaptic wants a root pw, and does not accept my pw as user 1000 for sudo. Open a terminal, type sudo passwd root and give root a password. -dsr- Not an option I want, pw are not remembered well. sudo is supposed to do that for me. Thanks Dan, Cheers, Gene .
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 11:42:06AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > If blkid is missing, so is lsblk, unicorn:~$ type blkid blkid is /sbin/blkid unicorn:~$ type lsblk lsblk is /bin/lsblk Betcha it's a PATH thing.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 2022-06-12 17:20, gene heskett wrote: I so want you to succeed and I can't be a lot of help. As mentioned before, if it was me, I'd remove everything except the disk thing you want to boot with that has the OS on it and add and get things working one at a time afterwards. mick -- Key ID4BFEBB31
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 6/12/22 12:34, David Wright wrote: On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 19:41:34 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: On Saturday, 11 June 2022 13:32:54 EDT gene heskett wrote: On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to see if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I just discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, xfce I think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for the next remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but partition mount points have not been defined. And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of 6 mainboard plugs? Actually I did better than that, I shut down and ripped it out to a table and re-arranged ALL the drive cables and got rid of 3 drives and about 5 feet of power cable splitters but lost 3 fans cuz their 3 pin plugs aren't compat with the 4 pinners on this 2 yo mobo. I also moved the raid drives which were in a place in the rack w/o any cooling, about a foot higher in the tower in a 4 slot cage with a big fan for a front door. And while it will boot from the selected drive, I'm still running on the old ibstall because I cannot mount /dev/md0p1 over the home diretory when booted to the latest install. claims the mount is already done which it isn't, or the mount point is busy. Presumably because I'm logged into the non-raid /home/gene on the booted drive. I cobbled up a UUID based mount line in /etc/fstab, but apparently the raid10 will not assemble. I can mount the new drive from this boot, so what should I look at to get it to pre-assemble and mount /dev/md0p1 and ditto for md1, the swap thats on the raid10 too, all before I log in so its not busy? In case you hadn't noticed, root doesn't have $HOME on /home (unless you've adopted the Easthope scheme). I don't know what the sudo-exclusive people do. For decrypting /home remotely, I set up a special user that only performs that task (in order to avoid logging in as myself or root). Thanks all, I think I'm making progress. But apparently I'm a new bee at raid stuff. Hmmm, I just noted that htop is showing zero swap. Checking fstab against blkid, shows swap with a totally different blkid. I'll see if I can do a copy paste to fix that. Yup, a root swapon -av and now I have swap. And /opt was missing too, its on the raid but empty so that was added by copy/paste. A simple mount /opt fixes that. Now, are these bklid's stable enough I can mount the bigger drive and just copy this fstab over the existing one? AFAIK, blkid is a command that lists attributes or messes up your system. Hence this, in bold, from its man page: It is recommended to use lsblk(8) command to get information about block devices, or lsblk --fs to get an overview of filesystems, or findmnt(8) to search in already mounted filesystems. So it's the attributes that should concern you, like LABELs and UUIDs. In your narrative above, you'll probably lose swap each time you reinstall, because you've set a swap in the partitioner. I always avoid that. Any 21st century PC should be able to install with needing to swap. That is a useful clue, I'll leave it out of the next install since I've 32G of dram in this box. Swap is generally used only if I get stupid with OpenSCAD. But as IUI, swap is cleaned out reboot, so theoretically I should be able to the the same 60Gig /dev/md1 for both boots by adding it to fstab, and issuing a swapon.. And since both are bullseye, /home s/b interchangeable too. But since I now have a working install with effectively no tools except mc, I am blocked at every turn I try to use to get around that blockade. If someone could tell me which x desktop I could install, that doesn't crash and burn from un-fixable dependencies trying to install tde-trinity, I'd be well on they way to getting back to productive use of this machine. Thanks David, Cheers, Gene Cheers, David. .
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 12:20:05 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: > > > What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. > > For me, konsole does fine -- I can C&P from it with the mouse (and, > > presumably, > > keystrokes). > Well, I gave up and did another 29t install, but in trying to leave > out the dependecy hell of broken packages trying to install > tde-trinity so I could get back to familiar, bug free services. but I > had to install some gfx just to get x or wayland. > > That's not the important first impression however. Installing without > a root pw, I am prevented from doing anything to the system setup cuz > everything but synaptic wants a root pw, and does not accept my pw as > user 1000 for sudo. Security seems entirely too paranoid. Ant time I > change back to the gfx screen, I have to go thru the whole login > rigermarole so I waste about a minute because the gfx are so slow. You can give root a password using sudo. > Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the > mouse. but the main package manager, which doesn't seem to have a name > but is 100% graphical, refuses to show me a recognizable terminal of > any kind. It's not clear whether you have become fixated on "my instructions" (upthread), but the idea was that you only needed the mouse to cut and paste on the remote installer's PC, not the actual target of the d-i. But it also sounds, from other posts here, that you're only trying to get the mouse, and cut and paste, to show us the partitioner's listing, and the absence of certain drives. AFAICT, if you weren't to mess with the UEFI-BIOS trying to "avoid using UEFI", you'd probably see all your drives and be able to get on with your primary task, to install a system that works. > Also, installing on /dev/sda, a new 1T samsung, has destroyed my > ability to do a dual boot by selecting the other drive in the bios > menu. It gets stuck, probably looking for the raid, says press enter > to continue and when I do it just gets stuck in the same loop. > > and without blkid, I can't fix that. And to fix that, I need bllkid, > which isn't installed, and I can't install its parent pkg with > synaptic or apt due to broken packages that apt-get --fix-broken > refuses to fix. > > I have the old bullseye install mounted to /mnt/sdc#'s so I have > access and could probably run blkid from there but where is it? Where > does it normally live? I'll hunt around and see if I can find it in > the other install. If blkid is missing, so is lsblk, and it looks as though your system is entirely broken from a Debian point of view, because util-linux is Priority: required. Cheers, David.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
gene heskett wrote: > > On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: > That's not the important first impression however. Installing without a root > pw, I am prevented from doing anything to the system setup cuz everything > but synaptic wants a root pw, and does not accept my pw as user 1000 for > sudo. Open a terminal, type sudo passwd root and give root a password. -dsr-
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 19:41:34 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 13:32:54 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to > > > see if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I > > > just discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, > > > xfce I think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for > > > the next remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but > > > partition mount points have not been defined. > > > > And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios > > cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the > > bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went > > nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and > > swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of 6 > > mainboard plugs? > > > Actually I did better than that, I shut down and ripped it out to a table > and re-arranged ALL the drive cables and got rid of 3 drives and about 5 > feet of power cable splitters but lost 3 fans cuz their 3 pin plugs > aren't compat with the 4 pinners on this 2 yo mobo. I also moved the raid > drives which were in a place in the rack w/o any cooling, about a foot > higher in the tower in a 4 slot cage with a big fan for a front door. > > And while it will boot from the selected drive, I'm still running on the > old ibstall because I cannot mount /dev/md0p1 over the home diretory when > booted to the latest install. claims the mount is already done which it > isn't, or the mount point is busy. Presumably because I'm logged into the > non-raid /home/gene on the booted drive. I cobbled up a UUID based mount > line in /etc/fstab, but apparently the raid10 will not assemble. > > I can mount the new drive from this boot, so what should I look at to get > it to pre-assemble and mount /dev/md0p1 and ditto for md1, the swap thats > on the raid10 too, all before I log in so its not busy? In case you hadn't noticed, root doesn't have $HOME on /home (unless you've adopted the Easthope scheme). I don't know what the sudo-exclusive people do. For decrypting /home remotely, I set up a special user that only performs that task (in order to avoid logging in as myself or root). > Thanks all, I think I'm making progress. But apparently I'm a new bee at > raid stuff. Hmmm, I just noted that htop is showing zero swap. Checking > fstab against blkid, shows swap with a totally different blkid. > I'll see if I can do a copy paste to fix that. Yup, a root swapon -av and > now I have swap. And /opt was missing too, its on the raid but empty so > that was added by copy/paste. A simple mount /opt fixes that. > > Now, are these bklid's stable enough I can mount the bigger drive and > just copy this fstab over the existing one? AFAIK, blkid is a command that lists attributes or messes up your system. Hence this, in bold, from its man page: It is recommended to use lsblk(8) command to get information about block devices, or lsblk --fs to get an overview of filesystems, or findmnt(8) to search in already mounted filesystems. So it's the attributes that should concern you, like LABELs and UUIDs. In your narrative above, you'll probably lose swap each time you reinstall, because you've set a swap in the partitioner. I always avoid that. Any 21st century PC should be able to install with needing to swap. Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 19:49:03 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 14:49:07 EDT Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 01:32:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios > > > cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the > > > bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went > > > nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and > > > swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of > > > 6 mainboard plugs? > > > > Check which drive is actually set to boot first in the boot order. > > > > If you've installed with UEFI, then make sure that you're set to boot a > > UEFI disk. > > > I repeat, no EUFI. IMO its just something else to suffer bit rot from a > stray alpha particle. You've not been told recently that dd-wrt is my > guard dog, with very sharp teeth. I have not been touched in 24 years. The stone wall along our garden is probably 50 years old, and has about as much relevance to UEFI as dd-wrt. But it does appear that you have a UEFI machine, guard dog or no. Cheers, David.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 03:53:49 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote: > Thomas Schmitt composed on 2022-06-12 09:21 (UTC+0200): > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > >> The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have konsole > >> and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse driven copy/ > >> paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors screen. > > > Execute > > > > xterm & > > What purpose does an Xterm serve that can't be fulfilled by Konsole? Why this > tangent to Gene's foibles? Possibly none. Look, if I write about using xterm or a terminal to cut and paste text from the screen, I don't expect to have to write "Use xterm or aterm or aterm-ml or eterm or mrxvt or mrxvt-cjk or mrxvt-mini or rxvt or rxvt-ml or rxvt-beta or rxvt-unicode or rxvt-unicode-256color or rxvt-unicode-lite or rxvt-unicode-ml or xvt or X terminal-emulator or an emulator of your choice", just to pander to someone's inability to look anything up on google or wikipedia. It's enough for me to restate previously-given instructions by writing "Use xterm, not a VC, to cut and paste text". If someone assembling a RAID-10 can't decode those words, then I'm wasting my time. Cheers, David.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 6/12/22 10:01, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. For me, konsole does fine -- I can C&P from it with the mouse (and, presumably, keystrokes). Well, I gave up and did another 29t install, but in trying to leave out the dependecy hell of broken packages trying to install tde-trinity so I could get back to familiar, bug free services. but I had to install some gfx just to get x or wayland. That's not the important first impression however. Installing without a root pw, I am prevented from doing anything to the system setup cuz everything but synaptic wants a root pw, and does not accept my pw as user 1000 for sudo. Security seems entirely too paranoid. Ant time I change back to the gfx screen, I have to go thru the whole login rigermarole so I waste about a minute because the gfx are so slow. Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the mouse. but the main package manager, which doesn't seem to have a name but is 100% graphical, refuses to show me a recognizable terminal of any kind. Also, installing on /dev/sda, a new 1T samsung, has destroyed my ability to do a dual boot by selecting the other drive in the bios menu. It gets stuck, probably looking for the raid, says press enter to continue and when I do it just gets stuck in the same loop. and without blkid, I can't fix that. And to fix that, I need bllkid, which isn't installed, and I can't install its parent pkg with synaptic or apt due to broken packages that apt-get --fix-broken refuses to fix. I have the old bullseye install mounted to /mnt/sdc#'s so I have access and could probably run blkid from there but where is it? Where does it normally live? I'll hunt around and see if I can find it in the other install. Cheers all, Gene Heskett.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 07:53:21 AM gene heskett wrote: > What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. For me, konsole does fine -- I can C&P from it with the mouse (and, presumably, keystrokes).
OT: why (was: Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails)
I was going to restrain myself and not send this, but I succumbed ... sorry for the noise. On Sunday, June 12, 2022 03:53:49 AM Felix Miata wrote: > Why this tangent to Gene's foibles? I shouldn't do this, but ... (And no criticism intended of anyone, specifically Thomas Schmitt.) s/song/thread/g This is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it. Not knowing what it was. But people kept singing it just because. This is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friend. ... (Apologies to the copyright holder.)
Re: xterm. Was: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, it comes to me that Debian has an official screenshot of one of my xterms. So here is an xterm with -bg wheat -fg black: https://screenshots.debian.net/shrine/screenshot/15899/simage/large-de6e648f9ed3746646ab2120ba5da1f0.png It is a bit higher than usual, to take all lines which i wanted to show as impression on what xorriso is good for. Frame and decorations are provided by window manager fvwm. On Debian it is as illustration of https://packages.debian.org/unstable/xorriso Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: xterm. Was: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, Gene Heskett wrote: > xterm cannot be found by synaptic or apt either. The package xterm exists and has versions in all current releases of Debian. See: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/xterm Try sudo apt-get install xterm or sudo apt install xterm > So I'll repeat, what is this magic xterm? It is about the oldest terminal emulator of the X Window System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm says: "Initial release 1984; 38 years ago [...] xterm originated prior to the X Window System. It was originally written as a stand-alone terminal emulator for the VAXStation 100 (VS100) by Mark Vandevoorde, a student of Jim Gettys, in the summer of 1984, when work on X started. It rapidly became clear that it would be more useful as part of X than as a standalone program, so it was retargeted to X. [...] Most terminal emulators for X started as variations on xterm." So termit and Konsole are just new-fangled remakes. :)) Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 07:53:21AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > gene@coyote:~$ bash: xterm: command not found > > xterm cannot be found by synaptic or apt either. unicorn:~$ apt policy xterm xterm: Installed: 366-1+deb11u1 Candidate: 366-1+deb11u1 Version table: *** 366-1+deb11u1 500 500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Your sources are broken, Gene. > So I'll repeat, what is this magic xterm? What do I install to get it? You don't need to run xterm specifically. You can use any freaking terminal. That should have been obvious to anyone who's been running Linux as long as you have. However, now we have a claim that in addition to all your *other* problems, you have broken Debian sources on at least one of your systems. No actual *proof*, mind you. Just a claim. Or... is it even Debian? Hell. It's probably not. It's probably your heavily customized version of Raspbian that only a dozen people on Earth use.
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 07:53:21AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Sunday, 12 June 2022 03:21:50 EDT Thomas Schmitt wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have > > > konsole and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse > > > driven copy/ paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors > > > screen. > > > > Execute > > > > xterm & > > root@coyote:~# xterm & > [1] 3504 > root@coyote:~# -bash: xterm: command not found > ^C > [1]+ Exit 127xterm > root@coyote:~# > logout > gene@coyote:~$ xterm & > [1] 3533 > gene@coyote:~$ bash: xterm: command not found > > xterm cannot be found by synaptic or apt either. > > So I'll repeat, what is this magic xterm? What do I install to get it? > Hi Gene, xterm is the _original_ X terminal If you go look at /etc/alternatives - there's an x-terminal-emulator category. /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator update-alternatives --config x-terminal emulator gives me six choices on this machine Selection PathPriority Status --- 0 /usr/bin/gnome-terminal-wrapper 40 auto mode 1 /usr/bin/gnome-terminal-wrapper 40 manual mode 2 /usr/bin/ko18rxterm 20 manual mode 3 /usr/bin/lxterm 30 manual mode 4 /usr/bin/uxterm 20 manual mode 5 /usr/bin/xterm 20 manual mode Konsole and termit are both alternatives to xterm in some sense. apt-cache search xterm will give you a list of all the xterm-like terminal emulators. apt install xterm would install xterm as one of the alternatives Many of the config options for colour/commands/control sequences for xterm have been carried through to later emulations and improvements > What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. > > > in one of the terminal windows which the pulldown menu gives you. > > There should pop up a xterm window with black background and white > > writing. > > > > man xterm gives a lot of options which influence the look of the > > terminal window. My favorite look is achieved by > > > > xterm -geometry 80x24 -bg wheat -fg black -sl 1 +sb & > > > > (+sb suppresses the scroll bar. Scroll up and down by Shift+PageUp and > > Shift+PageDown. -sl 1 gives a long scroll memory.) > > > > Repeat as often as needed to get the desired number of xterms. > > > > Consider to put your favorite xterm command into a script, so you can > > start it by a simple shell command like > > my_xterm > > > > (Consider to learn how to add such a command to the menus of the > > desktop or window manager. I gave my fvwm an "xterm" button by this > > line in ~/.fvwm2rc : > > *FvwmButtons xterm linuxterm.xpm Exec xterm -bg wheat -fg black -sl > > 1 +sb -title xterm ) > > > > > > If the default character size is too small for you: > > > > Ctrl+RightMouseButton in the xterm window gives a menu with sizes > > Default Unreadable Tiny Small Medium Large Huge > > > > If you are willing to dive into the sea of fonts, search the web for > > proposals like > > > > xterm ...other.options... -fn '*courier-bold-r*140*' & > > > > xterm ...other.options... -fn 10x20 & > > > > Found on: > > > > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/Cha > > pter05.html where i read: > > "This wouldn’t be so bad if a typical font name wasn’t mind-bending > > at first glance." > > > > (Ah ... 1990s nostalgy ...) > > > > > > Have a nice day :) > > > > Thomas > > > > . > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > > All the very best, as ever, Andy Cater >
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sunday, 12 June 2022 03:21:50 EDT Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have > > konsole and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse > > driven copy/ paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors > > screen. > > Execute > > xterm & root@coyote:~# xterm & [1] 3504 root@coyote:~# -bash: xterm: command not found ^C [1]+ Exit 127xterm root@coyote:~# logout gene@coyote:~$ xterm & [1] 3533 gene@coyote:~$ bash: xterm: command not found xterm cannot be found by synaptic or apt either. So I'll repeat, what is this magic xterm? What do I install to get it? What I do have is konsole and termit, no xterm. > in one of the terminal windows which the pulldown menu gives you. > There should pop up a xterm window with black background and white > writing. > > man xterm gives a lot of options which influence the look of the > terminal window. My favorite look is achieved by > > xterm -geometry 80x24 -bg wheat -fg black -sl 1 +sb & > > (+sb suppresses the scroll bar. Scroll up and down by Shift+PageUp and > Shift+PageDown. -sl 1 gives a long scroll memory.) > > Repeat as often as needed to get the desired number of xterms. > > Consider to put your favorite xterm command into a script, so you can > start it by a simple shell command like > my_xterm > > (Consider to learn how to add such a command to the menus of the > desktop or window manager. I gave my fvwm an "xterm" button by this > line in ~/.fvwm2rc : > *FvwmButtons xterm linuxterm.xpm Exec xterm -bg wheat -fg black -sl > 1 +sb -title xterm ) > > > If the default character size is too small for you: > > Ctrl+RightMouseButton in the xterm window gives a menu with sizes > Default Unreadable Tiny Small Medium Large Huge > > If you are willing to dive into the sea of fonts, search the web for > proposals like > > xterm ...other.options... -fn '*courier-bold-r*140*' & > > xterm ...other.options... -fn 10x20 & > > Found on: > > https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/Cha > pter05.html where i read: > "This wouldn’t be so bad if a typical font name wasn’t mind-bending > at first glance." > > (Ah ... 1990s nostalgy ...) > > > Have a nice day :) > > Thomas > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, Gene Heskett wrote: > It does have efi, but its disabled in the bios. The "BIOS" of ASUS PRIME Z370-A II is EFI. (Unfortunate naming, indeed, as we normally use "BIOS" for legacy PC-BIOS, the one which boots by executing the x86 code in the MBR.) If you switched to legacy CSM mode (*), then possibly the firmware still only looks at the drives which are listed in the firmware for booting. In old BIOS we had a priority list for hardware types like floppy, hard disk, or CD-ROM. In EFI it is normally a list of individual drives. The fact that re-plugging to another SATA socket made the drive bootable, could also indicate that the CSM mode is restricted to certain sockets. I personally would not deviate from defaults at installation time and thus not use the legacy CSM mode. But now that it works for you, there is no reason to change your firmware setting. (*) CSM in context of EFI is "Compatibility Support Module". ASUS tries hard to mess up nomenclature by using "CSM" as acronym for its "Corporate Stable Model" which promises to keep mainboard models available for at least three years. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Thomas Schmitt composed on 2022-06-12 09:21 (UTC+0200): > Gene Heskett wrote: >> The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have konsole >> and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse driven copy/ >> paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors screen. > Execute > > xterm & What purpose does an Xterm serve that can't be fulfilled by Konsole? Why this tangent to Gene's foibles? -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, Gene Heskett wrote: > The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have konsole > and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse driven copy/ > paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors screen. Execute xterm & in one of the terminal windows which the pulldown menu gives you. There should pop up a xterm window with black background and white writing. man xterm gives a lot of options which influence the look of the terminal window. My favorite look is achieved by xterm -geometry 80x24 -bg wheat -fg black -sl 1 +sb & (+sb suppresses the scroll bar. Scroll up and down by Shift+PageUp and Shift+PageDown. -sl 1 gives a long scroll memory.) Repeat as often as needed to get the desired number of xterms. Consider to put your favorite xterm command into a script, so you can start it by a simple shell command like my_xterm (Consider to learn how to add such a command to the menus of the desktop or window manager. I gave my fvwm an "xterm" button by this line in ~/.fvwm2rc : *FvwmButtons xterm linuxterm.xpm Exec xterm -bg wheat -fg black -sl 1 +sb -title xterm ) If the default character size is too small for you: Ctrl+RightMouseButton in the xterm window gives a menu with sizes Default Unreadable Tiny Small Medium Large Huge If you are willing to dive into the sea of fonts, search the web for proposals like xterm ...other.options... -fn '*courier-bold-r*140*' & xterm ...other.options... -fn 10x20 & Found on: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/x-window-system/9780937175149/Chapter05.html where i read: "This wouldn’t be so bad if a typical font name wasn’t mind-bending at first glance." (Ah ... 1990s nostalgy ...) Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 14:53:13 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 07:13:38 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 08:23:26 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get > > > > > > > > thru > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > server, > > > > > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about > > > > > > > > 51k, > > > > > > > > ugly > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server > > > > > > > > either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous > > > > > > > mail. > > > > > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > > > > > > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > > > > > > > > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints > > > > > about > > > > > some MUAs and some email providers.) > > > > > > > > The second one did come back so I assume it was seen but kmails > > > > ability to find your own echo's in a mailing list folder are > > > > definitly not its strong point. The scroll scrolls too far per > > > > click, going right on by your posts echos. Pretty high torr > > > > rating > > > > for that suckage. ;o(>> > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime, I have > > > > > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt > > > > > > partition > > > > > > with > > > > > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from > > > > > > fdisk, > > > > > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I > > > > > > see in > > > > > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > > > > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > > > > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what > > > > > > it > > > > > > might > > > > > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in > > > > > > it, > > > > > > and > > > > > > retry right now. > > > > > > > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're > > > > > so > > > > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > > > > thereof. > > > > But thats not long enough to show whats beyond the samsung 870, > > their's another alpha label that I'ds the tech in the drive, which > > in this case would be positive ID of the correct drive, letters QVC, > > not EVO like the earlier production raid drives which are all EVO's. > > This drive I am trying to use for the next install, is plugged into > > the socket labeled SATA6G_5 on this Z370-AII motherboard. Is this a > > problem? IDK. > I'm not going over this again. You've already been told about the use > of ls -l /dev/disk, and also about using your own PARTLABELs to sort > out which disk/partition is which. > > > > > There weren't any, but dmesg from another shell allowed me to ID > > > > the > > > > proper drive. So it now has a 1 partition install on it that > > > > won't > > > > boot. boot flag is set. And me is puzzled. boot files too far > > > > into > > > > the > > > > drive maybe? > > > > > > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig > > > /boot > > > and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times > > > before. > > > > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag > > on that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, > > its still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition > > table, but no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte > > plus jpeg from my camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might > > be the reason? > > I think I set bootable flags in the 20th century. You might want to > summarise how you're booting the machine at present, and which sort > of disk partitioning you're using, even if it's buried somewhere in > this typically lengthening thread. selecting, if I can find it in the bios, the drive I want to boot from, grub is installed on both. This part now works but the new install doesn't bring up the raid because the blkid's are now different. But I now think I know how to fix it as I just had to fix two entry's in the fstab to get this older boot working. First, I'll mount the new drive, and copy this working fstab over that one for the md's. My back is yelling from moving this big tower to a table so I could re-arrange drives, so there might be a nap before I get back to this. Thanks and Cheers, David, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 13:28:55 EDT Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > And I did try ext2 for an fs choice. Made no difference, it would > > > not set the bootable flag. Tried both fat16 and fat32 too. > > > Spmething would not allow settiing the bootable flag. > > The boot flag is set to a partition's description in the partition > table, not to a filesystem (which is the content of a partition). > > Are there particular symptoms by which you notice that the missing boot > flag causes the failure to boot ? (Other than you see it missing, of > course.) > > If your machine's firmware is EFI: > Did you fight enough with the user interface of the firmware (reachable > before booting attempts) in order to enable the disk for booting ? > There should be some screen or menu with a list of drives from which to > choose. It does have efi, but its disabled in the bios. The main problem was that the bios boot screen did not show the new drive, it was plugged into SATA6G_5 socket, not it plugged into SATA6G_1, the older install is on SATA6G_2 and the bios can now see both. But I'm living alone and this day it wasted so the next thing is scareing up some dinner and hiding it. Thank you Thomas. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 14:53:29 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 07:31:36 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 05:39:22 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > On Fri 10 Jun 2022 at 08:44:22 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > ssh > > > > > > > > from another machine to install > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a problem with? > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and > > > > > > apparently sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has > > > > > > come > > > > > > back in aound 6 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can > > > > > > > > insert the > > > > > > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text > > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > > > > > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in > > > > > > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the > > > > > > client > > > > > > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was > > > > > > running on the client machine, so there needs to be a method > > > > > > to > > > > > > make it text also. The installer was started in expert text > > > > > > mode, > > > > > > but ssh apparently overrides that somehow when it finds x > > > > > > running > > > > > > on the client. Should I have been running the client w/o x > > > > > > or > > > > > > wayland? I am not even sure how to switch vt's away from x to > > > > > > whatever #2 or #3 is called. > > > > > > > > > > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think > > > > > > > > Keystrokes like these are appropriate both for a locally running > > > > graphical installer, and for an installation running X (can't > > > > speak > > > > for Wayland), but not for the combination of a text installer on > > > > a > > > > target machine being controlled from a client running X. You can > > > > run the installer and several shells on the target machine from > > > > the client, without requiring any unusual interactions beyond > > > > what > > > > you normally do when you run X. > > > > > > > > But I can't tell Gene the individual keystrokes and mouse > > > > movements > > > > to > > > > make, as he's using weird things like TDE, konsole, and kmail, > > > > that > > > > I've never seen or used. > > > > > > > > > Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode > > > > > install > > > > > directly on the machine if you could. > > > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text > > > > mode > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > text > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano > > and > > keep. Or is there some other method I've forgotten since I did my > > first install in late '98, on a 400 mhz k6 from the floppies in the > > red hat 5.0 book? A machine I built from parts. So is this one FWIW. > > Presumably you're confusing VC text screens and xterm text > screens. You've been asked to use the latter type of screens > on the remote machine. > > > > > > Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could > > > > > save > > > > > the screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure > > > > > not to > > > > > load problematic graphics. > > > > What good are screenshots so big they can't be posted? > > Well, take a look at the PNG you posted at Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:44:48 > -0400, which is 1366x768 in colour. Now look at the information > contained therein, probably about 500x200. If I were taking a > screenshot, I'd frame the relevant part. > I tried to do that in gimp before I sent it, but all the menu's are changed from what I am used to, I could select and save what I wanted, clear the frame and paste what I'd outlined and saved, but I got the whole thing back when I pasted, several times so I'm going to have to learn gimp all over again. > But the point is, you don't want to post a screen
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 14:52:36 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 11:47:46 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use > > > > > > text > > > > > > mode > > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have > > > > > > been > > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions > > > > > > for > > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten > > > > > > how > > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or > > > > > > an > > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a > > > > > > PNG. > > > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > > > text > > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into > > > > nano > > > > and > > > > keep. > > > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying > > > a > > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > > monumentally difficult? > > > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT > > use > > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to > > copy/paste. Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't > > post what I see? > > > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full > > feature, > > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I > > see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So > > let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in > > the optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to > > highlight text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. > > Marvelous. but will it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > > > no. > > Reread my instructions. You weren't asked to cut and paste on a VC > (console), but in an xterm. > > > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to > > do > > all this magic stuff. > > Don't be so disingenuous—you know very well. You've used it. > Not surprisingly, you've remonstrated on it here. > > Cheers, > David. > > . The fact remains that xterm is not in the pulldown menu's, I have konsole and termit, and termit will work from x and give me mouse driven copy/ paste. But its a teeny litle thing on this monitors screen. About 3x4", can be expanded, but the border grabber is only one pixel wide. You really have to hunt for it. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 14:49:07 EDT Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 01:32:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use > > > > > > > text > > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those > > > > > > > instructions > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a > > > > > > > PNG. > > > > > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those > > > > > remote > > > > > text > > > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into > > > > > nano > > > > > and > > > > > keep. > > > > > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. > > > > It > > > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is > > > > displaying a > > > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer > > > > or > > > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > > > monumentally difficult? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy > > > > > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT > > > use > > > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to > > > copy/paste. Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I > > > can't post what I see? > > > > > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full > > > feature, > > > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy > > > I > > > see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. > > > So > > > let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in > > > the > > > optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to > > > highlight > > > text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but > > > will > > > it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > > > > > no. > > > > > > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to > > > do > > > all this magic stuff. > > > > > > Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to > > > see if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but > > > I just discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye > > > install, xfce I think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use > > > that for the next remote screen install. The drive is > > > partitioned, but partition mount points have not been defined. > > > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > > > And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios > > cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the > > bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went > > nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and > > swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of > > 6 mainboard plugs? > Gene, > > Check which drive is actually set to boot first in the boot order. > > If you've installed with UEFI, then make sure that you're set to boot a > UEFI disk. > > Andy Cater I repeat, no EUFI. IMO its just something else to suffer bit rot from a stray alpha particle. You've not been told recently that dd-wrt is my guard dog, with very sharp teeth. I have not been touched in 24 years. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 13:32:54 EDT gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use > > > > > > text > > > > > > mode > > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have > > > > > > been > > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions > > > > > > for > > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten > > > > > > how > > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or > > > > > > an > > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a > > > > > > PNG. > > > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > > > text > > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into > > > > nano > > > > and > > > > keep. > > > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying > > > a > > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > > monumentally difficult? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Andy > > > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT > > use > > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to > > copy/paste. Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't > > post what I see? > > > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full > > feature, > > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I > > see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So > > let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in the > > optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to highlight > > text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but will > > it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > > > no. > > > > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to > > do > > all this magic stuff. > > > > Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to > > see if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I > > just discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, > > xfce I think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for > > the next remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but > > partition mount points have not been defined. > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios > cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the > bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went > nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and > swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of 6 > mainboard plugs? > Actually I did better than that, I shut down and ripped it out to a table and re-arranged ALL the drive cables and got rid of 3 drives and about 5 feet of power cable splitters but lost 3 fans cuz their 3 pin plugs aren't compat with the 4 pinners on this 2 yo mobo. I also moved the raid drives which were in a place in the rack w/o any cooling, about a foot higher in the tower in a 4 slot cage with a big fan for a front door. And while it will boot from the selected drive, I'm still running on the old ibstall because I cannot mount /dev/md0p1 over the home diretory when booted to the latest install. claims the mount is already done which it isn't, or the mount point is busy. Presumably because I'm logged into the non-raid /home/gene on the booted drive. I cobbled up a UUID based mount line in /etc/fstab, but apparently the raid10 will not assemble. I can mount the new drive from this boot, so what should I look at to get it to pre-assemble and mount /dev/md0p1 and ditto for md1, the swap thats on the raid10 too, all before I log in so its not busy? Thanks all, I think I'm making progress. But apparently I'm a new bee at raid stuff. Hmmm, I just noted that htop is showing zero swap. Checking fstab against blkid, shows swap with a totally different blkid. I'll see if I can do a copy paste to fix that. Yup, a root swapon -av and now I have swap. And /opt was missing too, its on the raid but empty so that was added by copy/paste. A simple mount /opt fixes that. Now, are these bklid's stable enough I can mount the bigger drive and just copy this fstab over the existing one
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hello, On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 11:47:46AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > monumentally difficult? > > > > Regards, > > Andy > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT use > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to copy/paste. > Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't post what I see? Because you have been REPEATEDLY and SPECIFICALLY told to do this over SSH from an xterm. Your aversion to actually doing what you are advised, instead reinstalling the operating system some different way TWENTY EIGHT TIMES is beyond comprehension. Advised to do this text mode over SSH for ease of copy and paste, you intentionally choose to do it instead in a way where you know you can't easily do that. It's perverse. I'm starting to think we are stuck in some sort of social experiment, honestly. For my own mental health I cannot continue, sorry. Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 07:31:36 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 05:39:22 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > On Fri 10 Jun 2022 at 08:44:22 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > ssh > > > > > > > from another machine to install > > > > > > > > > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you > > > > > > have > > > > > > a problem with? > > > > > > > > > > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and > > > > > apparently sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come > > > > > back in aound 6 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can > > > > > > > insert the > > > > > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > > > > > > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode > > > > > > over > > > > > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > > > > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > > > > > > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the > > > > > client > > > > > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was > > > > > running on the client machine, so there needs to be a method to > > > > > make it text also. The installer was started in expert text mode, > > > > > but ssh apparently overrides that somehow when it finds x running > > > > > on the client. Should I have been running the client w/o x or > > > > > wayland? I am not even sure how to switch vt's away from x to > > > > > whatever #2 or #3 is called. > > > > > > > > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think > > > > > > Keystrokes like these are appropriate both for a locally running > > > graphical installer, and for an installation running X (can't speak > > > for Wayland), but not for the combination of a text installer on a > > > target machine being controlled from a client running X. You can > > > run the installer and several shells on the target machine from > > > the client, without requiring any unusual interactions beyond what > > > you normally do when you run X. > > > > > > But I can't tell Gene the individual keystrokes and mouse movements > > > to > > > make, as he's using weird things like TDE, konsole, and kmail, that > > > I've never seen or used. > > > > > > > Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode install > > > > directly on the machine if you could. > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text mode > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote text > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano and > keep. Or is there some other method I've forgotten since I did my first > install in late '98, on a 400 mhz k6 from the floppies in the red hat 5.0 > book? A machine I built from parts. So is this one FWIW. Presumably you're confusing VC text screens and xterm text screens. You've been asked to use the latter type of screens on the remote machine. > > > > Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could > > > > save > > > > the screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure not to > > > > load problematic graphics. > > What good are screenshots so big they can't be posted? Well, take a look at the PNG you posted at Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:44:48 -0400, which is 1366x768 in colour. Now look at the information contained therein, probably about 500x200. If I were taking a screenshot, I'd frame the relevant part. But the point is, you don't want to post a screenshot when the information itself is non-graphical. There are about 500 characters in that partition listing. > > > But using screenshots then opens a debate on where they are stored, > > > why they disappear when posted here, how big they are, which software > > > to use to reduce their size, how to use pastebins (and whether people > > > will bother to look at them when not inline), and how to quote them. > > > > > > As I've been installing Debian in text mode since the days when the > > > d-i's part 1 came on five floppies, I've never felt the need. I just > > > tried an 11.3 i386 netinst USB stick on an old Acer laptop, selected > > > graphical expert mode, and got a text screen. Memory limitation > > > (512MB) I
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 07:13:38 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, 10 June 2022 08:23:26 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > server, > > > > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, > > > > > > > ugly > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > > > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > > > > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > > > > > > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints > > > > about > > > > some MUAs and some email providers.) > > > > > > The second one did come back so I assume it was seen but kmails > > > ability to find your own echo's in a mailing list folder are > > > definitly not its strong point. The scroll scrolls too far per > > > click, going right on by your posts echos. Pretty high torr rating > > > for that suckage. ;o(>> > > > > > In the meantime, I have > > > > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition > > > > > with > > > > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from > > > > > fdisk, > > > > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in > > > > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > > > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > > > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it > > > > > might > > > > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, > > > > > and > > > > > retry right now. > > > > > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > > > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > > > thereof. > > But thats not long enough to show whats beyond the samsung 870, their's > another alpha label that I'ds the tech in the drive, which in this case > would be positive ID of the correct drive, letters QVC, not EVO like the > earlier production raid drives which are all EVO's. This drive I am > trying to use for the next install, is plugged into the socket labeled > SATA6G_5 on this Z370-AII motherboard. Is this a problem? IDK. I'm not going over this again. You've already been told about the use of ls -l /dev/disk, and also about using your own PARTLABELs to sort out which disk/partition is which. > > > There weren't any, but dmesg from another shell allowed me to ID the > > > proper drive. So it now has a 1 partition install on it that won't > > > boot. boot flag is set. And me is puzzled. boot files too far into > > > the > > > drive maybe? > > > > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig /boot > > and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times > > before. > > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on > that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its > still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but > no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte plus jpeg from my > camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might be > the reason? I think I set bootable flags in the 20th century. You might want to summarise how you're booting the machine at present, and which sort of disk partitioning you're using, even if it's buried somewhere in this typically lengthening thread. Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 11:47:46 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text > > > > > mode > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > > text > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano > > > and > > > keep. > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > monumentally difficult? > > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT use > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to copy/paste. > Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't post what I see? > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full feature, > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I see > in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So let me > look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in the optical > drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to highlight text on > screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but will it run on an > alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > no. Reread my instructions. You weren't asked to cut and paste on a VC (console), but in an xterm. > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to do > all this magic stuff. Don't be so disingenuous—you know very well. You've used it. Not surprisingly, you've remonstrated on it here. Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 01:32:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text > > > > > > mode > > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have > > > > > > been > > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions > > > > > > for > > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a > > > > > > PNG. > > > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > > > text > > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano > > > > and > > > > keep. > > > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a > > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > > monumentally difficult? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Andy > > > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT use > > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to copy/paste. > > Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't post what I > > see? > > > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full feature, > > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I > > see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So > > let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in the > > optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to highlight > > text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but will > > it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > > > no. > > > > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to do > > all this magic stuff. > > > > Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to see > > if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I just > > discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, xfce I > > think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for the next > > remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but partition mount > > points have not been defined. > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios cannot > see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the bios? > I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went nicely. It just > won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and swap cables to make > this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of 6 mainboard plugs? > > Gene, Check which drive is actually set to boot first in the boot order. If you've installed with UEFI, then make sure that you're set to boot a UEFI disk. Andy Cater > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > > >
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 11:47:46 EDT gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text > > > > > mode > > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have > > > > > been > > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions > > > > > for > > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a > > > > > PNG. > > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > > text > > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano > > > and > > > keep. > > > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a > > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > > and paste that into a another document. > > > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > > monumentally difficult? > > > > Regards, > > Andy > > Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT use > the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to copy/paste. > Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't post what I > see? > > In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full feature, > bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I > see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So > let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in the > optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to highlight > text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but will > it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. > > no. > > So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to do > all this magic stuff. > > Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to see > if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I just > discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, xfce I > think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for the next > remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but partition mount > points have not been defined. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. And I'm back from install 28, booted to the old install, the bios cannot see the drive I just installed to. So whats next? update the bios? I'll make mnt points and look at it. but the install went nicely. It just won't even see it to boot it. Can I shut down and swap cables to make this drive the first plug rather than the 5th of 6 mainboard plugs? Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, Gene Heskett wrote: > > And I did try ext2 for an fs choice. Made no difference, it would not set > > the bootable flag. Tried both fat16 and fat32 too. Spmething would not > > allow settiing the bootable flag. The boot flag is set to a partition's description in the partition table, not to a filesystem (which is the content of a partition). Are there particular symptoms by which you notice that the missing boot flag causes the failure to boot ? (Other than you see it missing, of course.) If your machine's firmware is EFI: Did you fight enough with the user interface of the firmware (reachable before booting attempts) in order to enable the disk for booting ? There should be some screen or menu with a list of drives from which to choose. >...> Z370-AII motherboard Google ... ASUS PRIME Z370-A II ? Looks modern. Must be EFI. With a fancy blackish "UEFI BIOS Utility" as user interface. (... and japanese premium capacitors on the sound module, as the german web site of ASUS says about it.) Earlier: >...> the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on >...> that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its >...> still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but >...> no joy. Although GPT has the notion of a "Legacy BIOS bootable" flag, there is few use for it, as i am not aware of MBR code which would look for it. EFI will surely not demand it. So probably the partition editor which works for the installer simply does not set a boot flag to GPT. In order to compensate for any usesles deviations caused by my remarks, let me take out one very improbale theory: >...> boot files too far into the drive maybe? That's an old cargo-cult idea. Probably caused by a bug in SYSLINUX which carried the higher 16 bits of a block address to a subsequent 32-bit computation with a small number. The 16 high bits were zero if the block address was small. With a high block address, the bits became non-zero and revealed the bug in preparation of the subsequent computation. This is fixed since a decade. But still ISO producers ask xorriso to put boot images to the lowest possible block addresses in the ISO. to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > Read Thomas Schmitt's post on that. He is most probably one of the most > knowledgeable people around here. I have to state that i claim being expert only with the ISO 9660 filesystem and its boot lures for the various firmwares, and with optical drives, i.e CD, DVD, or BD burners. By chance the boot variations for ISOs include those for hard disks. So i know about the boot flag and its potential for early boot failures. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:01:48 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text > > > > mode > > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote > > text > > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano > > and > > keep. > > Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It > does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a > file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or > running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's > control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse > and paste that into a another document. > > Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window > into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so > monumentally difficult? > > Regards, > Andy Very simple Andy, the vt1-2-3-4, what have you text login does NOT use the mouse, so there is no way to highlight what you want to copy/paste. Why is that so hard to understand as the reason I can't post what I see? In a gfx login I use konsole simply because its the most full feature, bug free terminal software linux offers. The only other term proggy I see in the menu's here it termit, which up to now I'v never used. So let me look at it before I hit the reset botton after plugging in the optical drive with the d-i in it. Aha! it uses the mouse to highlight text on screen, and pastes it into nano AS TEXT. Marvelous. but will it run on an alt+ctrl+f2 screen. no. So what is this "xterm" you speak of that is supposed to be able to do all this magic stuff. Let me go look at synaptic on the remote machine I've been using to see if its installable. yes, but it tab-less, no menus at all. but I just discovered whatever terminal is std in that bullseye install, xfce I think, CAN use the mouse to copy text so I'll use that for the next remote screen install. The drive is partitioned, but partition mount points have not been defined. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 11:06:45AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 08:40:15 EDT Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: [...] (I hope I'm not mixing up the quoting) > > 537M - FAT - at the very beginning of the disk - the ESP partition - > > mounted as /boot/efi > > > Is that now mandatory for 11.3? It ceretainly wasn't need for 11.0 You're mixing things up: the FAT partition is mandatory for the EFI booting scheme, not for any specific version of Debian. [...] > gene@coyote:~$ > So I assumed I can re-install w/o the EFI bs. That'll depend on how buggy your BIOS is -- in the one or in the other direction. Sometimes it doesn't leave you any choice. > And I did try ext2 for an fs choice. Made no difference, it would not set > the bootable flag. Tried both fat16 and fat32 too. Spmething would not > allow settiing the bootable flag. Read Thomas Schmitt's post on that. He is most probably one of the most knowledgeable people around here. These days, the bootable flag is mostly unimportant. But you can set it with fdisk (subcommand `a' if I remember correctly -- it must be a decennium since I last set one, and I do make an install from time to time, mind you), if that is so important to you. Maybe your BIOS is so buggy that it behaves differently based on this flag's presence, who knows. But most probably you're barking up the wrong tree. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 09:32:45 EDT rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 07:13:38 AM gene heskett wrote: > > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag > > on that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, > > its still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition > > table, but no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte > > plus jpeg from my camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might > > be the reason? > > IIRC, the bootable flag is pretty much irrelevant in Linux -- it > doesn't have to be set to boot from a partitions. Am I > mis-remembering? > > . IDK. but my hand is not on the old family bible. I'm going to make try #28, 26 and 27 have already failed earlier today. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 08:40:15 EDT Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:13:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 08:23:26 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're > > > > > so > > > > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > > > > thereof. > > > > But thats not long enough to show whats beyond the samsung 870, > > their's another alpha label that I'ds the tech in the drive, which > > in this case would be positive ID of the correct drive, letters QVC, > > not EVO like the earlier production raid drives which are all EVO's. > > This drive I am trying to use for the next install, is plugged into > > the socket labeled SATA6G_5 on this Z370-AII motherboard. Is this a > > problem? IDK. > Shouldn't be. > > Are you using UEFI / legacy MBR/BIOS to boot this drive ? > > You can use a completely blank drive: although others suggest using > gparted or similar beforehand, the partitioner is smart enough to do > it for itself. > > Grub is the _last_ thing to be written, more or less. > > Grub-efi requires an ESP partition - which is FAT formatted - at the > beginning of the disk and the rest can happily be one large LVM drive. > > Note: For Bullseye, the default swap size is 1G. That shouldn't matter > to you because you have swap on your RAID. > > > > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig > > > /boot > > > and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times > > > before. > > That's effectively what LVM will do for you ... > > > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag > > on that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, > > its still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition > > table, but no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte > > plus jpeg from my camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > See above: how are you installing? > > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might > > be the reason? > > > > And it took 3 passes to get rebooted to the old drive because > > something happened to the raid but it apparently fixed itself. The > > bios, apparently didn't see /dev/sda at all the first time, and it > > wasn't touched that I know of. > > > > Thanks all, David Wright in particular. > > > > > > Thanks David. > > > > > > > > > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i > > > > > from > > > > > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > David. > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > So: under UEFI boot and (encrypted) LVM, I have a partition layout > something like this: > > 537M - FAT - at the very beginning of the disk - the ESP partition - > mounted as /boot/efi > Is that now mandatory for 11.3? It ceretainly wasn't need for 11.0 > 512M - ext2 - mounted as /boot No such /boot/efi visible here for the old boot: gene@coyote:~$ ls -l /boot total 49660 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 236106 Mar 17 11:40 config-5.10.0-13-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 236144 Apr 29 05:36 config-5.10.0-14-amd64 drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 May 26 09:22 grub -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18273823 Apr 10 07:16 initrd.img-5.10.0-13-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 18379218 May 2 17:28 initrd.img-5.10.0-14-amd64 drwx-- 2 root root16384 Feb 19 12:09 lost+found -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 83 Mar 17 11:40 System.map-5.10.0-13-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 83 Apr 29 05:36 System.map-5.10.0-14-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6840768 Mar 17 11:40 vmlinuz-5.10.0-13-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6843648 Apr 29 05:36 vmlinuz-5.10.0-14-amd64 gene@coyote:~$ So I assumed I can re-install w/o the EFI bs. And I did try ext2 for an fs choice. Made no difference, it would not set the bootable flag. Tried both fat16 and fat32 too. Spmething would not allow settiing the bootable flag. let me see what gparted says, brb. So I've redone the re-partitioning and formatting of that drive. gparted had no problem marking it other than not offering a choice of mount points, that was greyed out so I'll have to do that from the d-i for install attempt #28. As soon as I send this. > 998G - LVM > > 1G swap > > Hope this helps, as ever, > > Andy Cater > > > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
Boot flag. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hi, (I still riddle what gene Heskett means with "installer refuses to set the bootable flag". So i only answer to the rhkramer's question.) rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > IIRC, the bootable flag is pretty much irrelevant in Linux -- it doesn't > have to be set to boot from a partitions. Am I mis-remembering? The boot flag in the MBR partition table has a main job and a mess of inofficial and anti-social side jobs. The main job is to tell the x86 machine code in a particular class of MBRs which partition's Volume Boot Record it shall choose for handing over program execution to that VBR's x86 machine code. The MBR x86 code installed by the boot loaders SYSLINUX and GRUB does not belong to that class. Those bootloaders have own ways to find the next piece of program code. Insofar the boot flag is normally of no importance for booting Linux. But it can sabotage the boot process by either presence or absence. One of its side jobs is with some old BIOS firmwares which assume that a disk with bootable MBR x86 code must have the boot flag set to some partition. I.e. they don't boot the MBR code from a disk that bears no MBR partition table with boot flag. Another is to sabotage booting by some EFI implementations which refuse if they see the boot flag at the MBR partition of type 0xEE which announces the presence of GPT. The situation becomes messy by some BIOS implementations which cause long delays with GRUB if they see the boot flag at a MBR partition of type 0x00 which comes after the partition of type 0xEE. (It is noteworthy that the Debian ISOs boot on all those mad firmwares. Mainly because the ISOs' partitioning is even more mad than any firmware can be.) One could hope that EFI and GPT would wash the boot flag away. But there is a flag bit in GPT partition slots named "Legacy BIOS bootable". (I'm not sure whether 446 bytes of x86 code can be smart enough to interpret GPT ... but would not bet against it.) Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 07:13:38 AM gene heskett wrote: > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on > that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its > still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but > no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte plus jpeg from my > camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might be > the reason? IIRC, the bootable flag is pretty much irrelevant in Linux -- it doesn't have to be set to boot from a partitions. Am I mis-remembering?
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hello, On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:31:36AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text mode > > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote text > screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano and > keep. Gene, come on. You know how to select and paste out of an xterm. It does not matter what that xterm is doing, whether it is displaying a file of locally stored bible notes, running the Debian installer or running minicom into the serial port of a nuclear power station's control panel. It displays text. You select the text with a mouse and paste that into a another document. Why is getting you to paste textual data from one terminal window into another (or a text editor or email or whatever) so monumentally difficult? Regards, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 07:13:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, 10 June 2022 08:23:26 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > > > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > > > thereof. > > But thats not long enough to show whats beyond the samsung 870, their's > another alpha label that I'ds the tech in the drive, which in this case > would be positive ID of the correct drive, letters QVC, not EVO like the > earlier production raid drives which are all EVO's. This drive I am > trying to use for the next install, is plugged into the socket labeled > SATA6G_5 on this Z370-AII motherboard. Is this a problem? IDK. > > > Shouldn't be. Are you using UEFI / legacy MBR/BIOS to boot this drive ? You can use a completely blank drive: although others suggest using gparted or similar beforehand, the partitioner is smart enough to do it for itself. Grub is the _last_ thing to be written, more or less. Grub-efi requires an ESP partition - which is FAT formatted - at the beginning of the disk and the rest can happily be one large LVM drive. Note: For Bullseye, the default swap size is 1G. That shouldn't matter to you because you have swap on your RAID. > > > > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig /boot > > and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times > > before. > That's effectively what LVM will do for you ... > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on > that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its > still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but > no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte plus jpeg from my > camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > See above: how are you installing? > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might be > the reason? > > And it took 3 passes to get rebooted to the old drive because something > happened to the raid but it apparently fixed itself. The bios, apparently > didn't see /dev/sda at all the first time, and it wasn't touched that I > know of. > > Thanks all, David Wright in particular. > > > > Thanks David. > > > > > > > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i > > > > from > > > > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > David. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > So: under UEFI boot and (encrypted) LVM, I have a partition layout something like this: 537M - FAT - at the very beginning of the disk - the ESP partition - mounted as /boot/efi 512M - ext2 - mounted as /boot 998G - LVM 1G swap Hope this helps, as ever, Andy Cater > >
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
gene heskett wrote: ... > Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on > that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its > still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but > no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte plus jpeg from my > camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. > > I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might be > the reason? i'm not following closely but perhaps there is already a bootable partition on that drive so it won't set it for another? if you are having trouble with grub and using UEFI i'd change to refind. efibootmgr then lets me do what i need to do for selecting which one to boot. i also include with grub because i have it installed a custom menu entry that lets me boot with refind instead just in case an update comes through in grub which screws up my system. songbird
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 05:39:22 EDT gene heskett wrote: > On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > > On Fri 10 Jun 2022 at 08:44:22 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do > > > > > > an > > > > > > ssh > > > > > > from another machine to install > > > > > > > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you > > > > > have > > > > > a problem with? > > > > > > > > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and > > > > apparently sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come > > > > back in aound 6 hours. > > > > > > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can > > > > > > insert the > > > > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > > > > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode > > > > > over > > > > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > > > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > > > > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the > > > > client > > > > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was > > > > running on the client machine, so there needs to be a method to > > > > make it text also. The installer was started in expert text mode, > > > > but ssh apparently overrides that somehow when it finds x running > > > > on the client. Should I have been running the client w/o x or > > > > wayland? I am not even sure how to switch vt's away from x to > > > > whatever #2 or #3 is called. > > > > > > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think > > > > Keystrokes like these are appropriate both for a locally running > > graphical installer, and for an installation running X (can't speak > > for Wayland), but not for the combination of a text installer on a > > target machine being controlled from a client running X. You can > > run the installer and several shells on the target machine from > > the client, without requiring any unusual interactions beyond what > > you normally do when you run X. > > > > But I can't tell Gene the individual keystrokes and mouse movements > > to > > make, as he's using weird things like TDE, konsole, and kmail, that > > I've never seen or used. > > > > > Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode install > > > directly on the machine if you could. > > > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text mode > > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > That limit is very easy to see, there is no mouse in those remote text screens to use to highlight what you might want to paste into nano and keep. Or is there some other method I've forgotten since I did my first install in late '98, on a 400 mhz k6 from the floppies in the red hat 5.0 book? A machine I built from parts. So is this one FWIW. > > > Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could > > > save > > > the screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure not to > > > load problematic graphics. What good are screenshots so big they can't be posted? > > But using screenshots then opens a debate on where they are stored, > > why they disappear when posted here, how big they are, which software > > to use to reduce their size, how to use pastebins (and whether people > > will bother to look at them when not inline), and how to quote them. > > > > As I've been installing Debian in text mode since the days when the > > d-i's part 1 came on five floppies, I've never felt the need. I just > > tried an 11.3 i386 netinst USB stick on an old Acer laptop, selected > > graphical expert mode, and got a text screen. Memory limitation > > (512MB) I suppose, or it doesn't like the graphics card (Radeon). > > That didn't boot, but reverted to the old problematic boot, twice. Then > I recalled once before that since I'd done it to one big, full drive, > and grub is the ast thing installed, its probably too far into the > drive and grub can't find its boot files. > > So I'm about to repartition the drive for a 12 or 13G /boot as a > seperate partition and make a 27th attempt. > Something like this from fdisk /dev/sdd, then p > Command (m for help): p > Disk /dev/sdd: 931.51 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors > Disk model: Samsung SSD 870 > Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disklabel
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Friday, 10 June 2022 08:23:26 EDT gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru > > > > > > the > > > > > > server, > > > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, > > > > > > ugly > > > > > > but > > > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > > > > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints > > > about > > > some MUAs and some email providers.) > > > > The second one did come back so I assume it was seen but kmails > > ability to find your own echo's in a mailing list folder are > > definitly not its strong point. The scroll scrolls too far per > > click, going right on by your posts echos. Pretty high torr rating > > for that suckage. ;o(>> > > > > In the meantime, I have > > > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition > > > > with > > > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from > > > > fdisk, > > > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in > > > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it > > > > might > > > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, > > > > and > > > > retry right now. > > > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > > thereof. But thats not long enough to show whats beyond the samsung 870, their's another alpha label that I'ds the tech in the drive, which in this case would be positive ID of the correct drive, letters QVC, not EVO like the earlier production raid drives which are all EVO's. This drive I am trying to use for the next install, is plugged into the socket labeled SATA6G_5 on this Z370-AII motherboard. Is this a problem? IDK. > > > > There weren't any, but dmesg from another shell allowed me to ID the > > proper drive. So it now has a 1 partition install on it that won't > > boot. boot flag is set. And me is puzzled. boot files too far into > > the > > drive maybe? > > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig /boot > and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times > before. Welp, I did that, but the installer refuses to set the bootable flag on that drive, it blinks the remote screen, but when its repainted, its still off. I went thru the loop, even made a new gpt partition table, but no joy. and all I have to show for it is a 5 megabyte plus jpeg from my camera so you'll just have to take my word for it. I've not had a problem setting the bootable flag before. What might be the reason? And it took 3 passes to get rebooted to the old drive because something happened to the raid but it apparently fixed itself. The bios, apparently didn't see /dev/sda at all the first time, and it wasn't touched that I know of. Thanks all, David Wright in particular. > > Thanks David. > > > > > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i > > > from > > > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > David. > > > > > > . > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:49:57 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Fri 10 Jun 2022 at 08:44:22 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an > > > > > ssh > > > > > from another machine to install > > > > > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you > > > > have > > > > a problem with? > > > > > > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and > > > apparently sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come > > > back in aound 6 hours. > > > > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can > > > > > insert the > > > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode > > > > over > > > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the > > > client > > > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was > > > running on the client machine, so there needs to be a method to > > > make it text also. The installer was started in expert text mode, > > > but ssh apparently overrides that somehow when it finds x running > > > on the client. Should I have been running the client w/o x or > > > wayland? I am not even sure how to switch vt's away from x to > > > whatever #2 or #3 is called. > > > > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think > > Keystrokes like these are appropriate both for a locally running > graphical installer, and for an installation running X (can't speak > for Wayland), but not for the combination of a text installer on a > target machine being controlled from a client running X. You can > run the installer and several shells on the target machine from > the client, without requiring any unusual interactions beyond what > you normally do when you run X. > > But I can't tell Gene the individual keystrokes and mouse movements to > make, as he's using weird things like TDE, konsole, and kmail, that > I've never seen or used. > > > Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode install > > directly on the machine if you could. > > AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text mode > locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been > posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for > someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how > to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an > editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > > > Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could save > > the screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure not to > > load problematic graphics. > > But using screenshots then opens a debate on where they are stored, > why they disappear when posted here, how big they are, which software > to use to reduce their size, how to use pastebins (and whether people > will bother to look at them when not inline), and how to quote them. > > As I've been installing Debian in text mode since the days when the > d-i's part 1 came on five floppies, I've never felt the need. I just > tried an 11.3 i386 netinst USB stick on an old Acer laptop, selected > graphical expert mode, and got a text screen. Memory limitation > (512MB) I suppose, or it doesn't like the graphics card (Radeon). > That didn't boot, but reverted to the old problematic boot, twice. Then I recalled once before that since I'd done it to one big, full drive, and grub is the ast thing installed, its probably too far into the drive and grub can't find its boot files. So I'm about to repartition the drive for a 12 or 13G /boot as a seperate partition and make a 27th attempt. Something like this from fdisk /dev/sdd, then p Command (m for help): p Disk /dev/sdd: 931.51 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors Disk model: Samsung SSD 870 Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: 9CEFADE5-AA85-4242-8630-5CA906D8DDB3 Device StartEndSectors Size Type /dev/sdd1 2048 27351039 2734899213G Linux filesystem /dev/sdd2 27351040 154478591 127127552 60.6G Linux swap /dev/sdd3 154478592 1953523711 1799045120 857.9G Linux filesystem Which ought to keep grub's stuff within reach. And it should stop it from using a slower swap file too, not that this current setup with 32G of dram uses much swap unless I screw up with OpenSCAD. And I'd better get to it, I'm running out of uptime since nut doesn't like no permissions to access /dev/ttyUSB1, and heyu doesn't like bein
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Fri 10 Jun 2022 at 08:44:22 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh > > > > from another machine to install > > > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you have > > > a problem with? > > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and apparently > > sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come back in aound 6 > > hours. > > > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can insert the > > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode over > > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the client > > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was running on > > the client machine, so there needs to be a method to make it text also. > > The installer was started in expert text mode, but ssh apparently > > overrides that somehow when it finds x running on the client. Should I > > have been running the client w/o x or wayland? I am not even sure how to > > switch vt's away from x to whatever #2 or #3 is called. > > > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think Keystrokes like these are appropriate both for a locally running graphical installer, and for an installation running X (can't speak for Wayland), but not for the combination of a text installer on a target machine being controlled from a client running X. You can run the installer and several shells on the target machine from the client, without requiring any unusual interactions beyond what you normally do when you run X. But I can't tell Gene the individual keystrokes and mouse movements to make, as he's using weird things like TDE, konsole, and kmail, that I've never seen or used. > Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode install directly > on the machine if you could. AFAIK, there's no way of recording the screens if you use text mode locally, rather than remotely. Hence the instructions I have been posting. However, it's difficult to write those instructions for someone to follow when it appears that they have forgotten how to cut and paste text from a terminal screen into a file or an editor's buffer, or think that you can cut and paste from a PNG. > Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could save the > screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure not to load > problematic graphics. But using screenshots then opens a debate on where they are stored, why they disappear when posted here, how big they are, which software to use to reduce their size, how to use pastebins (and whether people will bother to look at them when not inline), and how to quote them. As I've been installing Debian in text mode since the days when the d-i's part 1 came on five floppies, I've never felt the need. I just tried an 11.3 i386 netinst USB stick on an old Acer laptop, selected graphical expert mode, and got a text screen. Memory limitation (512MB) I suppose, or it doesn't like the graphics card (Radeon). Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Friday, 10 June 2022 02:45:20 EDT gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru > > > > > the > > > > > server, > > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, > > > > > ugly > > > > > but > > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints about > > some MUAs and some email providers.) > > The second one did come back so I assume it was seen but kmails ability > to find your own echo's in a mailing list folder are definitly not its > strong point. The scroll scrolls too far per click, going right on by > your posts echos. Pretty high torr rating for that suckage. ;o(> > > > In the meantime, I have > > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition > > > with > > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from fdisk, > > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in > > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it > > > might > > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, and > > > retry right now. > > > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part > > thereof. > There weren't any, but dmesg from another shell allowed me to ID the > proper drive. So it now has a 1 partition install on it that won't > boot. boot flag is set. And me is puzzled. boot files too far into the > drive maybe? > Based on that theory, I may repartition that drive with a 4gig /boot and the rest as one big / one, I have run into that a few times before. > Thanks David. > > > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i from > > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > > > Cheers, > > David. > > > > . > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 07:53:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh > > > from another machine to install > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you have > > a problem with? > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and apparently > sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come back in aound 6 > hours. > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can insert the > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode over > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the client > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was running on > the client machine, so there needs to be a method to make it text also. > The installer was started in expert text mode, but ssh apparently > overrides that somehow when it finds x running on the client. Should I > have been running the client w/o x or wayland? I am not even sure how to > switch vt's away from x to whatever #2 or #3 is called. > Ctrl-alt-F1, F2 I think Part of this at least is why I suggested using text mode install directly on the machine if you could. Graphical expert mode would probably work as well and you could save the screenshots but I prefer completely text mode to be sure not to load problematic graphics. Andy > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > > >
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the > > > > server, > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, > > > > ugly > > > > but > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints about > some MUAs and some email providers.) > The second one did come back so I assume it was seen but kmails ability to find your own echo's in a mailing list folder are definitly not its strong point. The scroll scrolls too far per click, going right on by your posts echos. Pretty high torr rating for that suckage. ;o(> > > In the meantime, I have > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition with > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from fdisk, > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it might > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, and > > retry right now. > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part thereof. There weren't any, but dmesg from another shell allowed me to ID the proper drive. So it now has a 1 partition install on it that won't boot. boot flag is set. And me is puzzled. boot files too far into the drive maybe? Thanks David. > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i from > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > Cheers, > David. > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Friday, 10 June 2022 00:45:19 EDT David Wright wrote: > On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the > > > > server, > > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, > > > > ugly > > > > but > > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > > > That screenshot never came back to here. > > Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints about > some MUAs and some email providers.) > > > In the meantime, I have > > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition with > > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from fdisk, > > which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in > > the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are > > different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: > > slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it might > > be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, and > > retry right now. > > I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so > long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part thereof. > > But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i from > the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. > > Cheers, > David. I made the install using your instructs. Used 3 of the tty's on another machine to get away from X, and did not install a desktop as I have a badly named trinity 14 file in my sources-list.d. But at reboot, its rebooted to the old install after spending an additional 30 seconds contemplating its sins, twice. No reports I can find. I have mounted it to /mnt/slash26 and it looks normal at first glance. I have grub installed on /dev/sda and on /dev/sdd, so it seems like I should be able to choose between them from the bios boot menu. Ideas? Thanks David. > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 23:59:06 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the > > > server, > > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, ugly > > > but > > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. > > That screenshot never came back to here. Is that perhaps because you sent it? (One of the big complaints about some MUAs and some email providers.) > In the meantime, I have > partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition with > gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from fdisk, which > give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in the d-i > partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are different numbers, > fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: slash26, and its is currently > /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it might be to the installer? I'll plug in > the drive with the d-i in it, and retry right now. I don't recall seeing UUIDs in the d-i, perhaps because they're so long. I usually see the entries from /dev/disk/by-id/, or part thereof. But bear in mind that /dev/disk/ can be fully listed by the d-i from the very start, by switching to a shell on Alt-F2/3. Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Thursday, 9 June 2022 21:13:53 EDT mick crane wrote: > On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: > > Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the > > server, > > then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, ugly > > but > > still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. > > Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. > Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. That screenshot never came back to here. In the meantime, I have partitioned and formatted that new drive as ext4, gpt partition with gparted, the whole drive, then printed the info for it from fdisk, which give the UUID's, 2 different ones, so which should I see in the d-i partitioner, the type-UUID or just the UUID, they are different numbers, fdisk's info also shows the label as Name: slash26, and its is currently /dev/sdd1, but who knows what it might be to the installer? I'll plug in the drive with the d-i in it, and retry right now. > I have installed Debian to the wrong disk one time because of user > error. > The last time I think I physically disconnected other disks for > installation. > and added/identified others later by dmesg reported manufacturer and > size. > > good luck > mick > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 19:53:20 (-0400), gene heskett wrote: > On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh > > > from another machine to install > > > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you have > > a problem with? > yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and apparently > sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come back in aound 6 > hours. > > > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can insert the > > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode over > > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > > Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the client > machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was running on > the client machine, so there needs to be a method to make it text also. > The installer was started in expert text mode, but ssh apparently > overrides that somehow when it finds x running on the client. Should I > have been running the client w/o x or wayland? I am not even sure how to > switch vt's away from x to whatever #2 or #3 is called. I don't understand what you're writing here. The screenshot shows that you were looking at a screenful of *text*, with some File/Edit/View/… menu items at the top that look graphical. You can see that the listing is text, because the "button" has these "< >" angle brackets. If it was a real GUI, you'd see a button with some sort of relief, colour or shading to distinguish it from the background. My instructions were "From your xterm, you can cut and paste text in the usual manner", and there's a world of difference between that and taking a screenshot. If you cut and paste, you can place the text in a post here, and we can quote it, copy it ourselves, and so on. You cut and paste by dragging the mouse over the text, and then clicking a different mouse button to paste it into a file that you can archive as part of your installation log. I keep a log for each of my disks, with partition listings from fdisk, gdisk and parted (they yield a variety of formats). Cheers, David.
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On 2022-06-09 22:15, gene heskett wrote: Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the server, then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, ugly but still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. Screenshot_1.jpg(~61 KB) was attached to your previous mail. Noticed as you say that 3 disks were scsi7. I have installed Debian to the wrong disk one time because of user error. The last time I think I physically disconnected other disks for installation. and added/identified others later by dmesg reported manufacturer and size. good luck mick
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
On Thursday, 9 June 2022 18:49:40 EDT Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh > > from another machine to install > > So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you have > a problem with? yes, the list server for debian-user see's the attachment and apparently sends the whole msg to /dev/null. Neither msg has come back in aound 6 hours. > > > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from that .png so I can insert the > > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? > > I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode over > SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text > attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. > > Cheers, > Andy Thats what I thought I was doing, by opening a konsole on the client machine, but when I saved the screenshot, it was a png. x was running on the client machine, so there needs to be a method to make it text also. The installer was started in expert text mode, but ssh apparently overrides that somehow when it finds x running on the client. Should I have been running the client w/o x or wayland? I am not even sure how to switch vt's away from x to whatever #2 or #3 is called. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hello, On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:15:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh from > another machine to install So can we see the copy and paste of this first screen that you have a problem with? > So, how to I do a text copy/paste from thart .png so I can insert the > cogent parts of the text in an email msg? I recommend not doing that at all and going with the text mode over SSH, because you are never going to be able to get non-text attachments to this list and it just seems harder in general. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
26th pass at installing 11-3, fails
Hello all; I have now made two passes at posting a screenshot of the partitioner menu screen, showing that it does not even see the drive I want to use. It also shows 3 copies that make no sense as they are all called by the same name as SCSI7. they might be the raid, but that is 4 drives, not 3. Posted once as the original .png of 81k, that didn't get thru the server, then I loaed it up in gimp and smunched it down to about 51k, ugly but still readable, and thats not made it thru the server either. So 26th reinstall attempt, following David's instructs to do an ssh from another machine to install, after it froze up with under 2 days uptime. I've also found that its /dev/sdd for this bootup with 90% of the usb stuff unplugged. This reinstall driven by an x crash, the mouse and gkrellm were still alive, the mouse pointer moved but no button clicks worked. A logout worked, but logging back in, it was still frozen up. So I rebooted to the d-i and following David W. instructs, got to the partitioners menu & discovered it not one had sdb from a different drive now, but the drive I want to use is completely missing from the choices listed. Hence the wish to post the snapshot since I'm catching it from everybody by not showing it. So, how to I do a text copy/paste from thart .png so I can insert the cogent parts of the text in an email msg? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
