Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-22 Thread Ron Johnson

On 06/21/2011 02:26 PM, he who wrote:
[snip]


Speaking of multiple music directories, do you know of  a way to set
which directory Amarok imports music files too? It just uses the first
(and main) directory I selected but I may need to change that.


What if I've already got an organized scheme for my 56GB of music? 
Amarok will duplicate it into it's own directory tree?


Or, worse, *move* all the files?

--
Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure
the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally
corrupt.
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-22 Thread Scott Ferguson
On 22/06/11 20:59, Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 06/21/2011 02:26 PM, he who wrote:
 [snip]

 Speaking of multiple music directories, do you know of  a way to set
 which directory Amarok imports music files too? 

[1] No - Amarok doesn't move files - that's a functionality you have to
add through scripts if desired


 It just uses the first
 (and main) directory I selected but I may need to change that.

You can change the directory/ies it indexes. See [1]

redundancy removed, sorry Ron

Cheers

-- 
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A. Four


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-21 Thread he who
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Scott Ferguson
prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 21/06/11 09:52, he who wrote:


 On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net
 mailto:ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:

     On 06/20/2011 07:35 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
     [snip]

         Unfortunately Aqualung has only a small subset of Amarok 2s
         capabilities. And I've yet to find anything that matches Amarok - it
         easily handles my 260GB music collection (53k+ songs (5130
         albums) as
         well as lyric files, photos, music videos, and album art - auto
         display
         of Wikipedia entries for playing tracks - plugins for musicbrainz,
         dozens of extension scripts, and it's easy to write more. It
         uses mysql
         (or other) database and has extensive playlist capability.
         As an added bonus it crashes every time I shut it down :-(  But
         nothing
         breaks, and nothing beats it.


     The music files are stored directly in a database?


 Just playlists and program specific information I believe. The music
 directories, files, their tags and any changes therein made by Amarok
 remain accessible by other programs.

 --
 Regards,
 Freeman



 Yes.
 The point, which I failed to make, is that I can modify the database to
 suit my own requirements, without being restricted to the music
 player/collection manager interface. Amarok doesn't alter the actual
 files and happily works with files in multiple locations.
 All the other music players that I've tried don't work well with large
 collections and/or don't allow me to use musicbrainz. Amarok can
 directly use musicbrainz but doesn't stop me from using Picard as well.

 The crash on closing I experience (Squeeze) may well be one of my dodgy
 scripts - but as it doesn't reduce the functionality of Amarok I can
 happily live with it.

 Cheers


I just get random crashes, in squeeze with Amarok installed from
backports.  Crashes generally confine themselves to when I am crazy
busy, switching lots in and out of the main playlist while editing
genres and changing settings. (Not so much any more.) But I find that
doing much rearranging with podcasts while playing same seems to
precipitate crashiness.

I don't have any of my own scripts. The one I have isolated as
problematic is the moodbar generator. If I let it finish on a
playlist, then turn it off in script manager, there are no problems
and the generated moodbars remain.

I've only had one crash where I lost data. And that was settings. When
I re-edited the settings, everything was back.

There is an issue with ID tags reassigning themselves. But they are
slowly stabilizing with repeated re-edits. I think that is because
files get added with a variety of tags that Amarok doesn't handle, so
sometimes get saved from edits while still containing data that trips
up Amarok. If necessary, I'll start going after them with a tag
editor, kid3(?).

I think the main playlist should be called the queue-list.  Calling it
the playlist confuses it with saved playlists.

Speaking of multiple music directories, do you know of  a way to set
which directory Amarok imports music files too? It just uses the first
(and main) directory I selected but I may need to change that.

P.S. Hope this is in plain text.script

--
Regards,
Freeman


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-20 Thread Lisi
On Sunday 19 June 2011 23:42:42 Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 06/19/2011 01:22 PM, Lisi wrote:
  On Sunday 19 June 2011 19:01:07 AG wrote:
  Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.
 
  Is this Anarok 2.x.  I have heard complaints about it before.  I am still
  sitting pretty on Amarok 1.4.5, which is more than adequate for my
  (admittedly undemanding) needs.

 Try aqualung.

Why?  I like Amarok.  

 It's gooey and plays music. 

Lisi


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-20 Thread Scott Ferguson
On 20/06/11 17:04, Lisi wrote:
 On Sunday 19 June 2011 23:42:42 Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 06/19/2011 01:22 PM, Lisi wrote:
 On Sunday 19 June 2011 19:01:07 AG wrote:
 Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.

 Is this Anarok 2.x.  I have heard complaints about it before.  I am still
 sitting pretty on Amarok 1.4.5, which is more than adequate for my
 (admittedly undemanding) needs.

 Try aqualung.
 
 Why?  I like Amarok.  
 
 It's gooey and plays music. 
 
 Lisi
 
 
Unfortunately Aqualung has only a small subset of Amarok 2s
capabilities. And I've yet to find anything that matches Amarok - it
easily handles my 260GB music collection (53k+ songs (5130 albums) as
well as lyric files, photos, music videos, and album art - auto display
of Wikipedia entries for playing tracks - plugins for musicbrainz,
dozens of extension scripts, and it's easy to write more. It uses mysql
(or other) database and has extensive playlist capability.
As an added bonus it crashes every time I shut it down :-(  But nothing
breaks, and nothing beats it.
Apart from crashing the new - built-in contact the developer feature
repeatedly lets you know they received your message - sort of like an
echo! :-D

Cheers


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-20 Thread Ron Johnson

On 06/20/2011 07:35 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
[snip]

Unfortunately Aqualung has only a small subset of Amarok 2s
capabilities. And I've yet to find anything that matches Amarok - it
easily handles my 260GB music collection (53k+ songs (5130 albums) as
well as lyric files, photos, music videos, and album art - auto display
of Wikipedia entries for playing tracks - plugins for musicbrainz,
dozens of extension scripts, and it's easy to write more. It uses mysql
(or other) database and has extensive playlist capability.
As an added bonus it crashes every time I shut it down :-(  But nothing
breaks, and nothing beats it.


The music files are stored directly in a database?

--
Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure
the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally
corrupt.
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-20 Thread he who
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:

 On 06/20/2011 07:35 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
 [snip]

  Unfortunately Aqualung has only a small subset of Amarok 2s
 capabilities. And I've yet to find anything that matches Amarok - it
 easily handles my 260GB music collection (53k+ songs (5130 albums) as
 well as lyric files, photos, music videos, and album art - auto display
 of Wikipedia entries for playing tracks - plugins for musicbrainz,
 dozens of extension scripts, and it's easy to write more. It uses mysql
 (or other) database and has extensive playlist capability.
 As an added bonus it crashes every time I shut it down :-(  But nothing
 breaks, and nothing beats it.


 The music files are stored directly in a database?


Just playlists and program specific information I believe. The music
directories, files, their tags and any changes therein made by Amarok remain
accessible by other programs.

-- 
Regards,
Freeman


Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-20 Thread Scott Ferguson
On 21/06/11 09:52, he who wrote:
 
 
 On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net
 mailto:ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
 
 On 06/20/2011 07:35 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
 [snip]
 
 Unfortunately Aqualung has only a small subset of Amarok 2s
 capabilities. And I've yet to find anything that matches Amarok - it
 easily handles my 260GB music collection (53k+ songs (5130
 albums) as
 well as lyric files, photos, music videos, and album art - auto
 display
 of Wikipedia entries for playing tracks - plugins for musicbrainz,
 dozens of extension scripts, and it's easy to write more. It
 uses mysql
 (or other) database and has extensive playlist capability.
 As an added bonus it crashes every time I shut it down :-(  But
 nothing
 breaks, and nothing beats it.
 
 
 The music files are stored directly in a database?
 
 
 Just playlists and program specific information I believe. The music
 directories, files, their tags and any changes therein made by Amarok
 remain accessible by other programs.
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Freeman
 


Yes.
The point, which I failed to make, is that I can modify the database to
suit my own requirements, without being restricted to the music
player/collection manager interface. Amarok doesn't alter the actual
files and happily works with files in multiple locations.
All the other music players that I've tried don't work well with large
collections and/or don't allow me to use musicbrainz. Amarok can
directly use musicbrainz but doesn't stop me from using Picard as well.

The crash on closing I experience (Squeeze) may well be one of my dodgy
scripts - but as it doesn't reduce the functionality of Amarok I can
happily live with it.

Cheers


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Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread AG

Hey list

Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using safe-update 
from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy installation, Amarok .


When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
$ amarok(24118)/libplasma Plasma::FrameSvg::resizeFrame: Invalid size 
QSizeF(0, 0)
amarok(24118)/libplasma Plasma::FrameSvg::resizeFrame: Invalid size 
QSizeF(0, 0)
amarok(24118)/libplasma Plasma::FrameSvg::resizeFrame: Invalid size 
QSizeF(0, 0)
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(0,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(139,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(139,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(139,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(139,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(323,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Context dock/ContextDock) Negative sizes 
(0,-1) are not possible
QWidget::setMinimumSize: (Playlist dock/Playlist::Dock) Negative sizes 
(323,-1) are not possible

QSocketNotifier: Invalid socket 43 and type 'Read', disabling...
KCrash: Application 'amarok' crashing...
KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/drkonqi from kdeinit
sock_file=/home/AG/.kde/socket-valhalla/kdeinit4__0

What on earth is going on here?  Applications don't install correctly, 
or they crash when opened?  Although I am able to use my system 
productively, it is so %$ing infuriating when almost everyday a new 
problem occurs on this new installation of Debian.


I am a long time user and advocate of Debian, but this has got to be the 
buggiest installation of Debian since when I first started using it, 
back when Lenny was the testing candidate.


What have I done wrong on this, why would an ordinary safe-update of 
Amarok crash?


Yet another issue, and I really don't know what the heck to do about 
this ... any ideas?


Thanks
AG


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread lee
AG computing.acco...@googlemail.com writes:

 Hey list

 Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using
 safe-update from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy
 installation, Amarok .

 When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
 [...]
 this ... any ideas?

How about purging amarok, removing all configuration files that may be
left in your home directory and install it with aptitude?


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Camaleón
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:15:36 +0100, AG wrote:

 Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using safe-update
 from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy installation, Amarok .
 
 When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output: $

(...)

 QSocketNotifier: Invalid socket 43 and type 'Read', disabling... KCrash:
 Application 'amarok' crashing... KCrash: Attempting to start
 /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/drkonqi from kdeinit
 sock_file=/home/AG/.kde/socket-valhalla/kdeinit4__0
 
 What on earth is going on here?  Applications don't install correctly,
 or they crash when opened?  Although I am able to use my system
 productively, it is so %$ing infuriating when almost everyday a new
 problem occurs on this new installation of Debian.

But you are running testing, right? :-)

 I am a long time user and advocate of Debian, but this has got to be the
 buggiest installation of Debian since when I first started using it,
 back when Lenny was the testing candidate.

What I don't see is why you think this is a Debian specific issue. Amarok 
crashes are not so uncommon.
 
 What have I done wrong on this, why would an ordinary safe-update of
 Amarok crash?
 
 Yet another issue, and I really don't know what the heck to do about
 this ... any ideas?

Yep, you can try by starting amarok from a complete new profile. As you 
are under GNOME, maybe you need to rename some folders...

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Jochen Schulz
AG:
 
 What on earth is going on here?  Applications don't install
 correctly, or they crash when opened?

Welcome to testing! :)

 What have I done wrong on this, why would an ordinary safe-update of
 Amarok crash?

Your question appears to imply that the word safe in safe-ugrade
gives any guarantee about the quality of the upgrades. This is not the
case.

 Yet another issue, and I really don't know what the heck to do about
 this ...

Report it to the BTS.

J.
-- 
I want to keep my skin looking good but I believe all computers do the
same job.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread AG

On 19/06/11 17:41, lee wrote:

AGcomputing.acco...@googlemail.com  writes:


Hey list

Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using
safe-update from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy
installation, Amarok .

When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
[...]
this ... any ideas?

How about purging amarok, removing all configuration files that may be
left in your home directory and install it with aptitude?



Hi Lee

Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.

AG


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Lisi
On Sunday 19 June 2011 19:01:07 AG wrote:
 Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.

Is this Anarok 2.x.  I have heard complaints about it before.  I am still 
sitting pretty on Amarok 1.4.5, which is more than adequate for my 
(admittedly undemanding) needs.

Lisi


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Freeman
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:01:07PM +0100, AG wrote:
 On 19/06/11 17:41, lee wrote:
 AGcomputing.acco...@googlemail.com  writes:
 
 Hey list
 
 Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using
 safe-update from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy
 installation, Amarok .
 
 When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
 [...]
 this ... any ideas?
 How about purging amarok, removing all configuration files that may be
 left in your home directory and install it with aptitude?
 
 
 Hi Lee
 
 Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.
 

1.) testing = TESTING

If the only problem in testing right now is applications, that is a
good thing. During the squeeze testing cycle I was without adequate video
for 6 months and would have been for most of the cycle had I not held on to
old drivers for a year. And I had sound issues the lasted half of the cycle
too.

2.) Amarok 2 is under heavy development right now.

The version number may look high enough but the code is a complete rewrite.

3.) Amarok is from KDE, Banshee is the official Gnome music suite.

For Amarok, make sure all the KDE dependencies are installed.

4.) There are a lot of lib dependency upgrades between 2.3.1 and 2.4.1,
looks like most in fact.

5.) There is an amarok mailing list, ama...@kde.org, where the developers
themselves will respond to your queries directly, given time.

6.) I solved my problems trying to keep the latest version of Amarok by
installing from squeeze-backports. This might still work for wheezy and
there is a chance it will resolve the issue if it is dependency related.

-- 
Regards,
Freeman

Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the
answer. --Somebody


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Freeman
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:05:46PM -0700, evenso wrote:
 
 5.) There is an amarok mailing list, ama...@kde.org, where the developers
 themselves will respond to your queries directly, given time.
 

Oh,

Looks like you were there 8 minutes ago.

-- 
Regards,
Freeman

Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the
answer. --Somebody


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread AG

On 19/06/11 20:05, Freeman wrote:

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:01:07PM +0100, AG wrote:

On 19/06/11 17:41, lee wrote:

AGcomputing.acco...@googlemail.com   writes:


Hey list

Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using
safe-update from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy
installation, Amarok .

When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
[...]
this ... any ideas?

How about purging amarok, removing all configuration files that may be
left in your home directory and install it with aptitude?



Hi Lee

Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.


1.) testing = TESTING

If the only problem in testing right now is applications, that is a
good thing. During the squeeze testing cycle I was without adequate video
for 6 months and would have been for most of the cycle had I not held on to
old drivers for a year. And I had sound issues the lasted half of the cycle
too.



 you accepted that as okay?

Testing is one thing, but unless our Sid/ experimental colleagues are 
really putting up with some dire situations regarding upstream 
applications, then why would testing be subjected to passed along 
configurations that aren't fit for purpose?



2.) Amarok 2 is under heavy development right now.

The version number may look high enough but the code is a complete rewrite.


In which case, it shouldn't be passed along until such time as the 
relevant dependencies are fixed.

3.) Amarok is from KDE, Banshee is the official Gnome music suite.

For Amarok, make sure all the KDE dependencies are installed.


It used to work until the latest round of safe upgrades.


4.) There are a lot of lib dependency upgrades between 2.3.1 and 2.4.1,
looks like most in fact.


In which case I would have expected a mature package manager like 
apt-get or aptitude to compensate for, which is part of what they are 
intended to do.

5.) There is an amarok mailing list, ama...@kde.org, where the developers
themselves will respond to your queries directly, given time.


Have already written to them ... and response time is slow, and who is 
to say if this is an Amarok or a Debian issue? Hence the double posting, 
which I know is not good protocol.

6.) I solved my problems trying to keep the latest version of Amarok by
installing from squeeze-backports. This might still work for wheezy and
there is a chance it will resolve the issue if it is dependency related.



How would I do that?  I have tried to install from 
/var/cache/apt/archives/ but that doesn't give me an alternate version


Cheers

AG


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Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Freeman
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 09:41:06PM +0100, AG wrote:
 On 19/06/11 20:05, Freeman wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:01:07PM +0100, AG wrote:
 On 19/06/11 17:41, lee wrote:
 AGcomputing.acco...@googlemail.com   writes:
 
 Hey list
 
 Today a new issue reared its ugly head.  I installed, using
 safe-update from the Update Manager in GNOME, on a wheezy
 installation, Amarok .
 
 When I go to run Amarok, it crashes.  This is the output:
 [...]
 this ... any ideas?
 How about purging amarok, removing all configuration files that may be
 left in your home directory and install it with aptitude?
 
 
 Hi Lee
 
 Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.
 
 1.) testing = TESTING
 
 If the only problem in testing right now is applications, that is a
 good thing. During the squeeze testing cycle I was without adequate video
 for 6 months and would have been for most of the cycle had I not held on to
 old drivers for a year. And I had sound issues the lasted half of the cycle
 too.
 
 
  you accepted that as okay?
 

Did for years. When I wanted something more stable--and would have been
willing to complain about it--I went to, of all things, stable, where I've
had no complaints.  

Debian is *free* monetarily, along with other open source software. But
there is a price: your time, effort and positive contribution.  (Not to
mention the time, effort and positive contribution of open source developers
who sincerely want nothing but to succeed in *giving* you advanced
software.) That price is magnified exponentially by moving outside of Debian
stable.

 Testing is one thing, but unless our Sid/ experimental colleagues
 are really putting up with some dire situations regarding upstream
 applications, then why would testing be subjected to passed along
 configurations that aren't fit for purpose?
 

The Debian assurances are associated with the stable release.  Stable is the
only official release.  One purpose of testing is to get bug reports from
the general usage at large, which can't be duplicated anywhere else.

I am sure that developers strive for certain standards in the testing
release.  But better to fail them in testing than in stable.  I have heard
rumors that development schedules sometimes force packages into testing when
they will be broken or constitute problem because there simply is no other
solution.  

That happened to fglrx and my video card. There simply wasn't a replacement
and Debian development had to move forward, eventually breaking my old
version of fglrx, in order to, among other things, develop the replacement.

It is easy and maybe fun to sit in judgement. It is much harder to make a
complicated system in a complicated world perfect, not to mention *free*. 
And Debian does something like that.

 2.) Amarok 2 is under heavy development right now.
 
 The version number may look high enough but the code is a complete rewrite.
 
 In which case, it shouldn't be passed along until such time as the
 relevant dependencies are fixed.

You are welcome to the stable version and I am pretty sure that the
1.4-something version previously mentioned as rock solid will run on stable,
maybe testing.  You are also welcome to educate yourself on the general
status and issues of all the *free* open-source software there is to choose
from.  There is *free* documentation (not anticipating a profitable sale) to
make choosing as easy as possible.  But the work involved will never be
completely taken out of the equation, even by all those hard working
volunteers and developers donating their time and resources, unless you pay
somebody.

 3.) Amarok is from KDE, Banshee is the official Gnome music suite.
 
 For Amarok, make sure all the KDE dependencies are installed.
 
 It used to work until the latest round of safe upgrades.


I've always understood safe in this case to mean that you will be left
with a bootable computer, not that there is a guarantee against application
breakage.  Might be worth reading the docs if it is an issue for you.  I
haven't since it isn't for me.
 
 4.) There are a lot of lib dependency upgrades between 2.3.1 and 2.4.1,
 looks like most in fact.
 
 In which case I would have expected a mature package manager like
 apt-get or aptitude to compensate for, which is part of what they
 are intended to do.

Even in stable, I use apt-move to archive the old version of everything I
upgrade.  I mean really, find the perfect combination of OS, apps, hardware
and user.  If you do you should archive everything immediately and then bet
the lottery.  If you don't you should still archive against backslide. 
Ergo, snapshot.debian.org, if you don't want to do it yourself.

 5.) There is an amarok mailing list, ama...@kde.org, where the developers
 themselves will respond to your queries directly, given time.
 
 Have already written to them ... and response time is slow, and who
 is to say if this is an Amarok or a Debian issue? Hence the double
 posting, which I know is not good protocol.

Amarok is having a 

Re: Almost everyday a new issue: this time Amarok

2011-06-19 Thread Ron Johnson

On 06/19/2011 01:22 PM, Lisi wrote:

On Sunday 19 June 2011 19:01:07 AG wrote:

Did that and the Amrok app still crashes.


Is this Anarok 2.x.  I have heard complaints about it before.  I am still
sitting pretty on Amarok 1.4.5, which is more than adequate for my
(admittedly undemanding) needs.



Try aqualung.  It's gooey and plays music.

--
Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure
the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally
corrupt.
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749


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