Re: Backspace in xterm (again) [FIXED]
Pete Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous Pete word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. ... and now it works fine! Thanks to everyone for making a wonderful system where all the bad things go away and nice surprises show up around every corner. After being disconcerted that with the latest slink synch I lost all my X clients (xdm, xterm, etc.), and then re-finding them in the dselect list, and installing them, I found that Alt-backspace works properly again in an xterm. -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Branden Robinson wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 1998 at 10:06:49AM +0100, Gilbert Laycock wrote: Pete I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine could be... Odd isn't it. I finally compared my /etc/X11/Xresources with the one from the distribution. I had *VT100.Translations: #override KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) While the distribution has *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I added the override for BackSpace, and then I get the same misbehaviour as you describe. There is a comment saying: ! Include override for BackSpace because older xterms do not understand the ! backarrowKey resource. I think I just never use any older xterms; I've not noticed any problems with my setup. I think I will have to go and read the Debian keyboard policy again. After some experimentation, I found that the following works if you add it to /etc/X11/Xresources: *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ MetaKeyBackSpace: string(\033\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) bash-2.01$ bind -p | grep back \C-b: backward-char \eOD: backward-char \e[D: backward-char \C-h: backward-delete-char \C-?: backward-delete-char \C-x\C-?: backward-kill-line \e\C-h: backward-kill-word \e\C-?: backward-kill-word And that's why. Bash is expecting a literal ESCAPE, and doesn't really care what key you use to get it. I don't know whose problem this is. It seems to me that one should be able to keep the ESC and META keys separate in X. Uhmm, ignore me if I'm being stupid, but isn't the *definition* of a 'META' keystroke a key sequence that begins with 'ESC'? Hasn't *nix always used the 'ESC' key value in this way? -- Ed C.
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
After some experimentation, I found that the following works if you add it to /etc/X11/Xresources: *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ MetaKeyBackSpace: string(\033\177)\n\ ... Didn't produce any change for me. bash-2.01$ bind -p | grep back=20 ... \e\C-h: backward-kill-word \e\C-?: backward-kill-word And that's why. Bash is expecting a literal ESCAPE, and doesn't really care what key you use to get it. Emacs running inside an xterm doesn't see Metas either. Nothing in an xterm acts like it's seeing a Meta-backspace, even though it sees metas for every other key combo (afaik). /Somewhere/ something is special-casing Meta-backspace, and that ought to be fixed. I'd be willing to live with a workaround such as you proposed but it doesn't work for me. Does anyone have any idea which layer might be interfering with M-backspace? Another odd thing is that rxvt works (sort of---alt and meta are switched). Old binaries of xterm /don't/ work, though I don't have a statically-linked one to try out. Maybe it's a glibc bug somewhere? No, because remote Bo xterms, which work when sitting at that machine, don't work when displaying on my Slink machine. I'm stymied. -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
On Thu, Sep 10, 1998 at 10:06:49AM +0100, Gilbert Laycock wrote: Pete I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine could be... Odd isn't it. I finally compared my /etc/X11/Xresources with the one from the distribution. I had *VT100.Translations: #override KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) While the distribution has *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I added the override for BackSpace, and then I get the same misbehaviour as you describe. There is a comment saying: ! Include override for BackSpace because older xterms do not understand the ! backarrowKey resource. I think I just never use any older xterms; I've not noticed any problems with my setup. I think I will have to go and read the Debian keyboard policy again. After some experimentation, I found that the following works if you add it to /etc/X11/Xresources: *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ MetaKeyBackSpace: string(\033\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) bash-2.01$ bind -p | grep back \C-b: backward-char \eOD: backward-char \e[D: backward-char \C-h: backward-delete-char \C-?: backward-delete-char \C-x\C-?: backward-kill-line \e\C-h: backward-kill-word \e\C-?: backward-kill-word And that's why. Bash is expecting a literal ESCAPE, and doesn't really care what key you use to get it. I don't know whose problem this is. It seems to me that one should be able to keep the ESC and META keys separate in X. -- G. Branden Robinson |One man's theology is another man's Purdue University |belly laugh. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Robert Heinlein http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | pgpDVzFtZfOWv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Pete Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous Pete word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. What kind of keyboard do you have? On my 104 key (windows 95) keyboard, the windows key produces Meta and the Alt key produces Alt when in X. Meta-backspace deletes the previous word in bash in an xterm. Alt-backspace just deletes one character. Using an rxvt it is the other way around. I've tried a couple of keyboards; I've got a 104-key W95 keyboard currently. I get the same behavio[u]r as you, except nothing gets back-word-delete in bash. Meta /is defined/, because I can Meta-D to delete a word forward, or M-F to skip a word forward. It's only Meta-backspace that fails (afaik). I've fiddled with xkeycaps (I switched the meanings of the 'windows' key and the 'Alt' key, for example, so Meta is in the 'proper' place), to no avail. Outside X, or in Emacs, all works normally. rxvt does what you describe: It works, but it's reversed (alt acts as meta and meta is ignored.) I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine could be... -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Just to followup on my own message, it's probably not a bug in xterm because bo's xterm binary misbehaves identically when copied to slink. -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Pete I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine could be... Odd isn't it. I finally compared my /etc/X11/Xresources with the one from the distribution. I had *VT100.Translations: #override KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) While the distribution has *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I added the override for BackSpace, and then I get the same misbehaviour as you describe. There is a comment saying: ! Include override for BackSpace because older xterms do not understand the ! backarrowKey resource. I think I just never use any older xterms; I've not noticed any problems with my setup. I think I will have to go and read the Debian keyboard policy again. -- Gilbert Laycock email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maths and Computer Science, http://www.mcs.le.ac.uk/~glaycock Leicester Universityphone: (+44) 116 252 3902
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Pete Harlan wrote: I too have this problem few weeks ago. What I did was: 1. Run xf86config 2. When it asks me for Do you want to use XKB? say yes. 3. Choose a preconfigured keymaps. I selected then: 1 Standard 101-key, US encoding With this one, no more fiddling with xmodmap or anything, Backspace the Delete key simply works. I did a fresh install of hamm and slink, including the above, and backspace and delete work fine, but Alt-backspace in an xterm[-debian] just does a backspace (instead of a meta-backspace, as it does (and should) on a text console or in an Emacs window.) Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. Hi, I have tested it and yes, Alt-backspace in xterm does'nt work. Maybe you should file a bug report? In Eterm, rxvt, xvt and even in kvt (KDE Terminal Emulator). Alt-backspace works. regards, == == Andre M. Varon Lasaltech Incorporated == == Technical Head Fax-Tel: (034)435-0836 == = == ==== == E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] == WebPage : http://andre.lasaltech.com
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Pete Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous Pete word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. What kind of keyboard do you have? On my 104 key (windows 95) keyboard, the windows key produces Meta and the Alt key produces Alt when in X. Meta-backspace deletes the previous word in bash in an xterm. Alt-backspace just deletes one character. Using an rxvt it is the other way around. It is my understanding that Meta and Alt should be separate when there are enough keyboard buttons to allow it, and that Meta-backspace is the definitive way to delete a word, since it is emulating emacs key bindings. -- Gilbert Laycock email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maths and Computer Science, http://www.mcs.le.ac.uk/~glaycock Leicester Universityphone: (+44) 116 252 3902
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
skribis Gilbert Laycock: Pete Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous Pete word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. What kind of keyboard do you have? On my 104 key (windows 95) keyboard, the windows key produces Meta and the Alt key produces Alt when in X. Meta-backspace deletes the previous word in bash in an xterm. Alt-backspace just deletes one character. Using an rxvt it is the other way around. It is my understanding that Meta and Alt should be separate when there are enough keyboard buttons to allow it, and that Meta-backspace is the definitive way to delete a word, since it is emulating emacs key bindings. But then `Alt-Backspace' in emacs deletes one word, as it does on the VC and so on. So I don't see the point in doing it different on an xterm. Nor do I think it is good: When I press `Alt-Backspace', I want something different to happen than when I just press `Backspace'. Whatever `different' means is discutable, but just mapping the two keys to the same action seems not quite the best thing. Mapping Both Alt and Esc to the same thing seem s OK to me, as that's what happens in most other environments too. -- Gilbert Laycock email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maths and Computer Science, http://www.mcs.le.ac.uk/~glaycock Leicester Universityphone: (+44) 116 252 3902
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Joost Witteveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | skribis Gilbert Laycock: | Pete Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous | Pete word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. | | What kind of keyboard do you have? On my 104 key (windows 95) | keyboard, the windows key produces Meta and the Alt key produces Alt | when in X. Meta-backspace deletes the previous word in bash in an | xterm. Alt-backspace just deletes one character. Using an rxvt it is | the other way around. | | It is my understanding that Meta and Alt should be separate when there | are enough keyboard buttons to allow it, and that Meta-backspace is | the definitive way to delete a word, since it is emulating emacs key | bindings. | | But then `Alt-Backspace' in emacs deletes one word, as it does on | the VC and so on. So I don't see the point in doing it different | on an xterm. Nor do I think it is good: When I press `Alt-Backspace', | I want something different to happen than when I just press `Backspace'. | Whatever `different' means is discutable, but just mapping the two keys | to the same action seems not quite the best thing. | | Mapping Both Alt and Esc to the same thing seem s OK to me, as that's | what happens in most other environments too. You can modify this yourself using the xkeycaps program, found in the xkeycaps Debian package. Just start it up, click and hold the right mouse button over the key you want to change, select Edit KeySyms of Key. Under Character Set select Keyboard and under KeySym select Escape. Click the OK button and then click the Write Output button in the main xkeycaps window. You'll want to rename the output from it's default of ~/.xmodmap-hostname to ~/.Xmodmap if you're using the Debian system default ~/.xsession. Of course the other option is to run xkeycaps as root and copy the resulting ~/.xmodmap-hostnaname to the system default /etc/X11/Xmodmap file to have the changes be default for all users. Gary
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Joost But then `Alt-Backspace' in emacs deletes one word, as it does on Joost the VC and so on. So I don't see the point in doing it different Joost on an xterm. Nor do I think it is good: When I press `Alt-Backspace', Joost I want something different to happen than when I just press `Backspace'. Joost Whatever `different' means is discutable, but just mapping the two keys Joost to the same action seems not quite the best thing. Joost Mapping Both Alt and Esc to the same thing seem s OK to me, as that's Joost what happens in most other environments too. Well, in the XEmacs I am using to compose this, I use M-backspace (using the windows key) to backwards delete a word. A-backspace (using the Alt key) gives A-backspace not defined. So to me it makes sense that bash in xterms should use M-backspace as the delete-word keybinding. I suppose you could argue that A-backspace should do nothing rather than delete one char... IMHO it is useful to have Meta and Alt different, since it means that, for instance, emacs and window manager keybindings are less likely to conflict: so I can use Alt-Tab to cycle through my windows while Meta-Tab does mail alias completion in emacs. AFAIK the various emacs have always used Meta as the modifier key, and just did the best they could on keyboards with not enough buttons so that Alt and Meta couldn't be separate. -- Gilbert Laycock email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maths and Computer Science, http://www.mcs.le.ac.uk/~glaycock Leicester Universityphone: (+44) 116 252 3902
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
I too have this problem few weeks ago. What I did was: 1. Run xf86config 2. When it asks me for Do you want to use XKB? say yes. 3. Choose a preconfigured keymaps. I selected then: 1 Standard 101-key, US encoding With this one, no more fiddling with xmodmap or anything, Backspace the Delete key simply works. I did a fresh install of hamm and slink, including the above, and backspace and delete work fine, but Alt-backspace in an xterm[-debian] just does a backspace (instead of a meta-backspace, as it does (and should) on a text console or in an Emacs window.) Does Alt-backspace work for anyone in an xterm (deleting the previous word on bash input, for example)? This worked fine in Bo and before. -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
I had the same problem, I found a solution, it may not be the best solution but it works for me. I used xmodmap to make the backspace key work in the way you want. check your keymap table for X (xmodmap -pke). If BackSpace is not in it then add it using the command (xmodmap -e keycode 22 = BackSapce). At least for my system that is what BackSpace is. Then dump the keymap table again to make sure it took (xmodmap -pke). That should make it work for the current session. To make the change permanent take the output from xmodmap -pke and dump it to the /etc/X11/Xmodmap file. This is used by both xdm and xinit (according to my documentation). This will make the change permanent globally. To make the change on a per-user basis put a .xmodmap file in the users directory. Read the man on xmodmap for more stuff. I hope this helps. -jeremy -- Jeremy Hinegardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Research Assistant http://meru.cecs.missouri.edu University of Missouri - Columbia Multimedia Communications and Visualization Laboratory -- On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Joost Witteveen wrote: Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Make sure the following is present in your /etc/X11/Xresources: Thanks. But unfortunately, it _is_ already present! *Text.translations: #override ~Shift ~Meta KeyDelete: delete-next-character() XTerm*termName: xterm-debian *VT100*backarrowKey: false *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I don't like introducing xterm-debian terminfo entry myself and just renamed it to xterm. And my $TERM variable already is set to xterm-debian. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Joost Witteveen wrote: I upgraded my system yesterday (OK to slink, but it appears the same problem is present in hamm), and now my bacspace generates an delete again. (in an xterm that is. Emacs (X11) and VC are OK) I already asked this question once, but I seem to have lost the responce I got then. Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Hi Joost, I too have this problem few weeks ago. What I did was: 1. Run xf86config 2. When it asks me for Do you want to use XKB? say yes. 3. Choose a preconfigured keymaps. I selected then: 1 Standard 101-key, US encoding With this one, no more fiddling with xmodmap or anything, Backspace the Delete key simply works. regards, == == Andre M. Varon Lasaltech Incorporated == == Technical Head Fax-Tel: (034)435-0836 == = == ==== == E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] == WebPage : http://andre.lasaltech.com
Backspace in xterm (again)
Hi, here I am agian. I upgraded my system yesterday (OK to slink, but it appears the same problem is present in hamm), and now my bacspace generates an delete again. (in an xterm that is. Emacs (X11) and VC are OK) I already asked this question once, but I seem to have lost the responce I got then. Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Make sure the following is present in your /etc/X11/Xresources: *Text.translations: #override ~Shift ~Meta KeyDelete: delete-next-character() XTerm*termName: xterm-debian *VT100*backarrowKey: false *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I don't like introducing xterm-debian terminfo entry myself and just renamed it to xterm. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
I think I had this same problem and solved it after someone in IRC (#debian) told me to disable XKEYBOARD extension (but I am not sure this was the problem, though). Try disabling XKEYBOARD in XF86Config... peloy.- Joost Witteveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, here I am agian. I upgraded my system yesterday (OK to slink, but it appears the same problem is present in hamm), and now my bacspace generates an delete again. (in an xterm that is. Emacs (X11) and VC are OK) I already asked this question once, but I seem to have lost the responce I got then. Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- -- Eloy A. Paris Information Technology Department Rockwell Automation Venezuela Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645
Re: Backspace in xterm (again)
Does anybody know what I should do to get my beloved backspace back again (yes, I want backspace to delete the char left to the curser, as it does in the VC's). Make sure the following is present in your /etc/X11/Xresources: Thanks. But unfortunately, it _is_ already present! *Text.translations: #override ~Shift ~Meta KeyDelete: delete-next-character() XTerm*termName: xterm-debian *VT100*backarrowKey: false *VT100.Translations: #override KeyBackSpace: string(\177)\n\ KeyDelete: string(\033[3~)\n\ KeyHome: string(\033OH)\n\ KeyEnd: string(\033OF) I don't like introducing xterm-debian terminfo entry myself and just renamed it to xterm. And my $TERM variable already is set to xterm-debian.
