Re: Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-15 Thread dekks herton 

On 11/15, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) wrote:

In Article <7b17f175-2608-c4de-e06c-15c84b5ed...@verizon.net>,
Maureen L Thomas  writes:


[...sorry for snip...]
debian.  I do not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list
[...]


How about Chromebook? In my case, i am willing to install Debian into
ARM64 [MT8173] Chromebook if i get a good chance.


Isn't that seriously complicated still involving a degree of skill.



Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

--
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//



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Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-15 Thread Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) 
In Article <7b17f175-2608-c4de-e06c-15c84b5ed...@verizon.net>,
 Maureen L Thomas  writes:

> [...sorry for snip...]
> debian.  I do not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list
> [...]

How about Chromebook? In my case, i am willing to install Debian into
ARM64 [MT8173] Chromebook if i get a good chance.

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-13 Thread dekks herton 

On 11/12, Joe wrote:

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:55:51 +1100
Charlie S  wrote:


On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:23:46 + dekkz...@gmail.com sent:

> On 11/12, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:
> >> in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE
> >> you choose] with IMO the following caveats
> >>
> >> 1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka
> >> optimus 2) Avoid anything realtek
> >
> >I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some
> >extra steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you
> >realize that is what you need to do)"
>
> Until the last 18 months i would have agreed but they hired one of
> the leading kernal gfx hackers and now forced by the Pi market are
> supporting newer stuff. Enough to come off my black list, however
> i'm keeping an eye on them to see if they relapse.
>

After contemplation, my reply is:

On an older Toshiba laptop I was given, mine starting to show signs of
faults after 10 years work. I had a bit of trouble getting Broadcom
WI-FI to work and had to take a couple of runs at it to get the
desired result. That could have been because my expectation was, it
would be straight forward. So probably my fault.



It might be worth a reminder at this point that a particular 'model' of
laptop (or other form) generally represents a desired set of
capabilities, and the actual hardware may vary from time to time. It is
necessary to go down to the level of all the letters on the end of the
model name, or even an SKU designation if provided, to be sure that a
particular laptop exactly complies with a published specification.


So true, hence why i like working with Thinkpads, it's easy to get a detailed 
build manifest from the part number.




For example, an HP laptop bought by a colleague of mine about six
months after I had bought the 'same' model has a separate numeric keypad
and mine doesn't.

--
Joe



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Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-12 Thread Doug 


On 11/12/2017 04:55 PM, Charlie S wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:23:46 + dekkz...@gmail.com sent:


On 11/12, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:

in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE
you choose] with IMO the following caveats

1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka optimus
2) Avoid anything realtek

I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some
extra steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you
realize that is what you need to do)"

Until the last 18 months i would have agreed but they hired one of
the leading kernal gfx hackers and now forced by the Pi market are
supporting newer stuff. Enough to come off my black list, however i'm
keeping an eye on them to see if they relapse.


After contemplation, my reply is:

On an older Toshiba laptop I was given, mine starting to show signs of
faults after 10 years work. I had a bit of trouble getting Broadcom
WI-FI to work and had to take a couple of runs at it to get the desired
result. That could have been because my expectation was, it would be
straight forward. So probably my fault.

Charlie



No, Broadcom is real PITA! Altho Mint 17 recognized a Broadcom
board right off the bat with no actual installation problem at all!

--doug

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-12 Thread Joe 
On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:55:51 +1100
Charlie S  wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:23:46 + dekkz...@gmail.com sent:
> 
> > On 11/12, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:  
> > >On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:
> > >> in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE
> > >> you choose] with IMO the following caveats
> > >>
> > >> 1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka
> > >> optimus 2) Avoid anything realtek
> > >
> > >I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some
> > >extra steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you
> > >realize that is what you need to do)"
> > 
> > Until the last 18 months i would have agreed but they hired one of
> > the leading kernal gfx hackers and now forced by the Pi market are
> > supporting newer stuff. Enough to come off my black list, however
> > i'm keeping an eye on them to see if they relapse.
> >   
> 
>   After contemplation, my reply is:
> 
> On an older Toshiba laptop I was given, mine starting to show signs of
> faults after 10 years work. I had a bit of trouble getting Broadcom
> WI-FI to work and had to take a couple of runs at it to get the
> desired result. That could have been because my expectation was, it
> would be straight forward. So probably my fault.
> 

It might be worth a reminder at this point that a particular 'model' of
laptop (or other form) generally represents a desired set of
capabilities, and the actual hardware may vary from time to time. It is
necessary to go down to the level of all the letters on the end of the
model name, or even an SKU designation if provided, to be sure that a
particular laptop exactly complies with a published specification.

For example, an HP laptop bought by a colleague of mine about six
months after I had bought the 'same' model has a separate numeric keypad
and mine doesn't.

-- 
Joe

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-12 Thread Charlie S 
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:23:46 + dekkz...@gmail.com sent:

> On 11/12, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:  
> >> in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE
> >> you choose] with IMO the following caveats
> >>
> >> 1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka optimus
> >> 2) Avoid anything realtek  
> >
> >I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some
> >extra steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you
> >realize that is what you need to do)"  
> 
> Until the last 18 months i would have agreed but they hired one of
> the leading kernal gfx hackers and now forced by the Pi market are
> supporting newer stuff. Enough to come off my black list, however i'm
> keeping an eye on them to see if they relapse.
> 

After contemplation, my reply is:

On an older Toshiba laptop I was given, mine starting to show signs of
faults after 10 years work. I had a bit of trouble getting Broadcom
WI-FI to work and had to take a couple of runs at it to get the desired
result. That could have been because my expectation was, it would be
straight forward. So probably my fault.

Charlie

Re: Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-12 Thread dekkzz78 

On 11/12, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:

in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE you
choose] with IMO the following caveats

1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka optimus
2) Avoid anything realtek


I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some extra
steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you realize that is
what you need to do)"


Until the last 18 months i would have agreed but they hired one of the leading 
kernal gfx hackers
and now forced by the Pi market are supporting newer stuff. Enough to come off my black list, 
however i'm keeping an eye on them to see if they relapse.


--
regards.


Jabber IM:dekkz...@jabber.hot-chilli.net


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Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-12 Thread rhkramer 
On Sunday, November 12, 2017 02:39:22 AM dekks herton wrote:
> in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE you
> choose] with IMO the following caveats
> 
> 1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka optimus
> 2) Avoid anything realtek

I'd add, "avoid Broadcom if you want to use WiFi"--it requires some extra 
steps for installation (and is even more of a pain until you realize that is 
what you need to do)"

> 3) If its got fancy Dolby sound or quad speakers they wont work on Debian
> 4) Always check reviews for PWM flickering on screen dimming if you have
> sensitive eyes
> 
> I personally use Thinkpads as a lot of Linux devs use them.

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread dekks herton 

On 11/11, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get 
a new laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The 
problem is I have only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems 
with them.  I do not know if an all in one would be a good choice for 
debian.  I do not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list 
where this request is more appropriate please head me in the right 
direction.


try the debian-laptops list here

in general - any modern laptop will run debian fine [with any DE you choose] 
with IMO the following caveats

1) Avoid ones with hybrid dual graphics ie intel/nvidia aka optimus
2) Avoid anything realtek
3) If its got fancy Dolby sound or quad speakers they wont work on Debian
4) Always check reviews for PWM flickering on screen dimming if you have 
sensitive eyes

I personally use Thinkpads as a lot of Linux devs use them.

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Phil Dobbin 
On 12/11/17 00:21, Maureen L Thomas wrote:

> I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a
> new laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem
> is I have only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with them. 
> I do not know if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do
> not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list where this request
> is more appropriate please head me in the right direction.

Hi Maureen.

Over the last several years I've had great results with
Hewlett-Packard's Elitebooks. I'm not sure that they do a 17" machine
but I'd have thought so.

They'd have no problems running Debian.

Cheers,

  Phil

-- 
Permission is granted to read this message out aloud on Kings Cross Road,
London, under the condition that the orator is properly dressed.

https://www.linuxcounter.net/cert/550036.png



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Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Erik Christiansen 
On 11.11.17 19:21, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a new
> laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem is I have
> only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with them.  I do not know
> if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do not need a game
> playing machine.  If there is a list where this request is more appropriate
> please head me in the right direction.

Maureen, there were some "5 best for 2017"-type reviews when I googled
for "linux compatible laptops", but what I half-remembered from the last
search was along the lines of: http://www.linux-laptop.net/

That seems to be more chaff than wheat, but an ad at the top pointed to:
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html
A bit of googling should reveal other sources of laptops with linux
installed - usually with a choice of distro.

Over the years, I've run Redhat, Ubuntu, and now Debian, on NEC and
Lenovo laptops. The only hassles I've had is getting sound to work, but
that was at least 50% not having done it before.

Another thought: If you buy secondhand, not only will it be cheaper, but
the seller is more likely to allow you to try it with a live CD, to
check the mousepad sensitivity, etc. (Usually, the rest just works as
expected, I find.)

For your consideration: Any linux distro with gnome tends to be slow to
come up on a laptop. Downloading an LXDE version of Debian will speed
things up for you, every time you boot. 

Erik

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Eero Volotinen 
Well, thinkpad P70 or P71. a bit expensive.

Eero

12.11.2017 2.22 "Maureen L Thomas"  kirjoitti:

> I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a
> new laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem is I
> have only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with them.  I do
> not know if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do not need
> a game playing machine.  If there is a list where this request is more
> appropriate please head me in the right direction.
>
> Thank you
> Maureen
>
>

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Steven Mainor 
Whatever you end up getting I would suggest you get something with an Atheros 
wifi card. I have had the best lock with Atheros and if I'm not mistaken there 
are official open source drivers for Atheros. 
--
Steven Mainor

On November 11, 2017 7:21:38 PM EST, Maureen L Thomas  
wrote:
>I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a
>
>new laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem 
>is I have only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with
>them.  
>I do not know if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do
>
>not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list where this request
>
>is more appropriate please head me in the right direction.
>
>Thank you
>Maureen

Re: Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez 
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 07:21:38PM -0500, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a new
> laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem is I have
> only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with them.  I do not know
> if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do not need a game
> playing machine.  If there is a list where this request is more appropriate
> please head me in the right direction.

HP and Dell both sell quite a few laptops with either Linux installed or
on the list of "officially" supported operating systems.

That said, if you want to support a company that is a very active
supporter of the Linux and OSS communities, then System 76 is a good bet
as well.

Note: I am not affiliated with any of these companies.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Compatible laptops

2017-11-11 Thread Maureen L Thomas 
I do know that this list is for real problems but I am looking to get a 
new laptop, 17 inch preferable or an all in one computer.  The problem 
is I have only used Toshiba laptops and have had no problems with them.  
I do not know if an all in one would be a good choice for debian.  I do 
not need a game playing machine.  If there is a list where this request 
is more appropriate please head me in the right direction.


Thank you
Maureen