Re: Customising Debian install
I dont see why Gnome as a whole depends on Empathy. On a separate note, the task selection in the installer governs which packages are installed by default. If I wanted to make a custom derived distro presumably the first point of call (after creating my own repository and copying all the stable packages to it) would be modifying the task selector to alter what is installed by default? But Im a bit perplexed by why Gnome as a whole is dependent on what I see as simply user apps on top of Gnome which Gnome should be able to function perfectly well without. To me the package dependencies here are screwed? Removing an IM client or a web browser shouldnt cause the whole desktop environment to be removed too. On 08/05/2011 21:12, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Du, 08 mai 11, 20:36:48, Andrew Wood wrote: Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. I assume you don't mean empathy should depend on gnome-desktop-environment, but wonder why removing one leaf package can have such an effect ;) The answer is quite simple: a Depends: relationship expresses that a package A can not function without a particular package B, so removing the package B will trigger the removal of package A. Now consider that package A also depends on C and D, and these were installed only as dependencies of A. Since the package manager considers that C and D are not needed anymore it offers to remove them. Regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dc8531f.5030...@me.com
Re: Customising Debian install
Le Mon 9/05/2011, Andrew Wood disait I dont see why Gnome as a whole depends on Empathy. On a separate note, the task selection in the installer governs which packages are installed by default. If I wanted to make a custom derived distro presumably the first point of call (after creating my own repository and copying all the stable packages to it) would be modifying the task selector to alter what is installed by default? But Im a bit perplexed by why Gnome as a whole is dependent on what I see as simply user apps on top of Gnome which Gnome should be able to function perfectly well without. To me the package dependencies here are screwed? Removing an IM client or a web browser shouldnt cause the whole desktop environment to be removed too. gnome is not a real package, but a meta package depending on (almost) all gnome components in order to allow installation with a single command. But if you remove one of the component, you break the dependency of the meta package thus it is removed, then other components registered as automatically installed, are not needed by the metapackage anymore, and thus are removed. -- Erwan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110509211609.gm...@rail.eu.org
Re: Customising Debian install
Ugh... very true, at least for squeeze onwards :-( http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome-desktop-environment Then better install gnome-core, right? Greetings, That's right. KDE have kde-minimal (or something like that) and XFCE have xfce4 + xfce goodies. -- Bye, Goran Dobosevic Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com English: www.dobosevic.com/en/ Registered Linux User #503414 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dc65dc2.60...@dobosevic.com
Re: Customising Debian install
Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dc6f0d0.9030...@me.com
Re: Customising Debian install
On Du, 08 mai 11, 20:36:48, Andrew Wood wrote: Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. I assume you don't mean empathy should depend on gnome-desktop-environment, but wonder why removing one leaf package can have such an effect ;) The answer is quite simple: a Depends: relationship expresses that a package A can not function without a particular package B, so removing the package B will trigger the removal of package A. Now consider that package A also depends on C and D, and these were installed only as dependencies of A. Since the package manager considers that C and D are not needed anymore it offers to remove them. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Customising Debian install
On Thu, 05 May 2011 21:08:05 +0100, Tom Furie wrote: On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +, Camaleón wrote: On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote: For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily removable :-? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. As with many of these all encomapssing meta packages you are usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually want. Ugh... very true, at least for squeeze onwards :-( http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome-desktop-environment Then better install gnome-core, right? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.05.06.10.40...@gmail.com
Customising Debian install
Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default packges from each machine? For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How come the packages have dependencies like this, surely removing an IM client shouldnt also trigger removal of everything else. As an example, Id like to remove things like Iceweasal and Epiphany so that theyre not installed by default but include our own custom Firefox .deb Likewise Id like to do away with Empathy and Tomboy. Surely theres a way to automate this and then build my own iso images so i dont have to customise each PC after installation? Thanks Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dc2da8f.4020...@me.com
Re: Customising Debian install
In 4dc2da8f.4020...@me.com, Andrew Wood wrote: Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default packges from each machine? 1. D-I + Preseed 2. FAI -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Customising Debian install
On Thursday 05 May 2011 09:12:47 am Andrew Wood wrote: Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default packges from each machine? For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How come the packages have dependencies like this, surely removing an IM client shouldnt also trigger removal of everything else. I use 'apt-cache depends or rdepends' to see whats what with dependencies. Not installing a desktop environment package, ie: 'gnome-desktop-environment' would be a good start to customizing a DE. Using gtk versions of apps instead of gnome version helps, though it seems the trend is to have monolithic DE's. -- Peace, Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201105051004.04785.gomadtr...@gci.net
Re: Customising Debian install
On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote: Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default packges from each machine? I'm only aware about the preseeding¹ option, like Boyd pointed out, but still not played in deep with it so what I do is installing a small set of packages at install time (for servers I only select the base pattern and for workstations the desktop one) and then manually trigger the remainder. For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily removable :-? How come the packages have dependencies like this, surely removing an IM client shouldnt also trigger removal of everything else. Yep, that's not normal. As an example, Id like to remove things like Iceweasal and Epiphany so that theyre not installed by default but include our own custom Firefox .deb Likewise Id like to do away with Empathy and Tomboy. Surely theres a way to automate this and then build my own iso images so i dont have to customise each PC after installation? I would perform all of those operations (install/uninstall) once the system has been installed. Then, if there are any weird interdependencies between packages that lead you to remove the core ones, just report it. ¹http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.05.05.19.21...@gmail.com
Re: Customising Debian install
On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +, Camaleón wrote: On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote: For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily removable :-? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. As with many of these all encomapssing meta packages you are usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually want. Cheers, Tom -- Mere nonexistence is a feeble excuse for declaring a thing unseeable. You *can* see dragons. You just have to look in the right direction. -- John Hasler signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Customising Debian install
On 6 May 2011 06:08, Tom Furie t...@furie.org.uk wrote: On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +, Camaleón wrote: On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote: For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS. How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily removable :-? The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on empathy. As with many of these all encomapssing meta packages you are usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually want. This is what I normally do, then use fluxbox or openbox for a smaller installation. Installing 'just what you want' drags in required dependencies but can lead, sometimes, to a little instability I have found. Installing one or two other related packages normally stabilises the situation though. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion.
