Re: UTF-8 bugs (was: Deadline for jessie init system choice)
On 2013-12-29 23:39:41 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: I've orphaned xpp in 2010, and that's after it was as good as dead upstream since 2005 with no releases. The last time anyone touched the code upstream was in 2008. IMHO, we should just remove it from Debian. It was damn useful when it was current with CUPS and its toolkit, but it has accumulated too much bitrot already over 10 years of being abandoned upstream. It is sad. xpp really deserves better than lingering on in its currentlly half-broken, unloved state. It seems that gtklp might be used as a replacement, but it was broken too... 7 years ago, and may still be: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=392184 I haven't tried since. -- Vincent Lefèvre vinc...@vinc17.net - Web: http://www.vinc17.net/ 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.net/blog/ Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131230172059.gc9...@xvii.vinc17.org
Re: UTF-8 bugs (was: Deadline for jessie init system choice)
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013, Vincent Lefevre wrote: * xpp does not support UTF-8 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630717 I've orphaned xpp in 2010, and that's after it was as good as dead upstream since 2005 with no releases. The last time anyone touched the code upstream was in 2008. IMHO, we should just remove it from Debian. It was damn useful when it was current with CUPS and its toolkit, but it has accumulated too much bitrot already over 10 years of being abandoned upstream. It is sad. xpp really deserves better than lingering on in its currentlly half-broken, unloved state. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131230013941.ga1...@khazad-dum.debian.net
UTF-8 bugs (was: Deadline for jessie init system choice)
On 2013-12-14 14:46:03 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: Pavel Volkov wrote: What's wrong with UTF-8 currently? fmt: incorrect formatting of UTF-8 text http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=650381 tr: fails to replace umlauts http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=388689 tr fails with UTF-8 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431231 _CTYPE with UTF-8 doesn't work correctly http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=139861 tr cannot handle unicode http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613155 uniq: merges obscure Cyrillic characters http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649729 I am sure there is more. Here are a few other ones: * scp output alignment bug with UTF-8/multibyte sequences http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407088 I've just reported it upstream. * xmessage ignores locale encoding http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=505893 (and in particular it is wrong with UTF-8 locales) * xpp does not support UTF-8 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630717 * xprop assumes that WM_ICON_NAME and WM_NAME are encoded in ISO-8859-1 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=699746 -- Vincent Lefèvre vinc...@vinc17.net - Web: http://www.vinc17.net/ 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.net/blog/ Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131229012028.ga32...@xvii.vinc17.org
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:43 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Tom H wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: The most notable source of problems are /etc/init.d/foo where foo doesn't have current LSB headers. Those files cause problems when upgrading because the new 'insserv' program used in Wheezy to set up parallel booting can't work without the dependency information in the LSB headers. Those files and packages should definitely be cleaned up. Didn't insserv become the default in Squeeze? Did it? Things do blur together after a while. :-) I do have notes that say for the Squeeze upgrade to look for the /etc/init.d/.legacy-bootordering file and to 'dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc' and to correct any problems seen from it. Still needs to be done if it isn't getting done at upgrade time. They do blur... Your notes are correct for dependency-boot upgrade failures. I've just checked the squeeze release notes and: http://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#dependency-boot so it was a squeeze change even though according to this page https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/DependencyBasedBoot it was originally a lenny release goal. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sy-8+umyge_lczo8z1tjhzgjx+gwspku8n-bqevu1h...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: The most notable source of problems are /etc/init.d/foo where foo doesn't have current LSB headers. Those files cause problems when upgrading because the new 'insserv' program used in Wheezy to set up parallel booting can't work without the dependency information in the LSB headers. Those files and packages should definitely be cleaned up. Didn't insserv become the default in Squeeze? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=syxy_5vr_q4bduhmeaz-szvtwa2pdfa_y14efzfjfo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Sun 15 Dec 2013 at 14:03:36 +, Tom H wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 11:38:31 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. What difference does it make whether the decision is made before or after the freeze? If it's made after the freeze, sysvinit wil be the default init system in Debian 8. The goal to have native systemd support in every package with sysv scripts (if accepted) and a decision on a new init system may be related, but only the first is linked to the time of the freeze. My 'couple of years' might have been spurious but, considering the stated goal might only be realised a day before the freeze (or not at all), the merit of putting a focus on a decision date as pre-freeze isn't clear. There's no relationship between Debian choosing a default init system and having native systemd support in every package that has a sysvinit script. So, as I said up-thread, should the choice be systemd or upstart, the earlier that a decision is taken, the better in order to iron out any problems. Even if the decision was made in February/March/April would this imply going into Jessie with a new init system is a realistic possibility? Why not? Have you tried systemd or upstart in testing or sid? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SzmTiqK+y9cuPU8KPfFRZt=wbtyuwysmmzdlpxnfzm...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Wed 18 Dec 2013 at 14:13:10 +, Tom H wrote: On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: The goal to have native systemd support in every package with sysv scripts (if accepted) and a decision on a new init system may be related, but only the first is linked to the time of the freeze. My 'couple of years' might have been spurious but, considering the stated goal might only be realised a day before the freeze (or not at all), the merit of putting a focus on a decision date as pre-freeze isn't clear. There's no relationship between Debian choosing a default init system and having native systemd support in every package that has a sysvinit script. Ok. So, as I said up-thread, should the choice be systemd or upstart, the earlier that a decision is taken, the better in order to iron out any problems. A sound, common-sense strategy. Even if the decision was made in February/March/April would this imply going into Jessie with a new init system is a realistic possibility? Why not? I believe I got my question in first. Insights are welcome. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131218205418.gs5...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
Tom H wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: The most notable source of problems are /etc/init.d/foo where foo doesn't have current LSB headers. Those files cause problems when upgrading because the new 'insserv' program used in Wheezy to set up parallel booting can't work without the dependency information in the LSB headers. Those files and packages should definitely be cleaned up. Didn't insserv become the default in Squeeze? Did it? Things do blur together after a while. :-) I do have notes that say for the Squeeze upgrade to look for the /etc/init.d/.legacy-bootordering file and to 'dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc' and to correct any problems seen from it. Still needs to be done if it isn't getting done at upgrade time. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Sun 15 Dec 2013 at 14:03:36 +, Tom H wrote: The goal to have native systemd support in every package with sysv scripts (if accepted) and a decision on a new init system may be related, but only the first is linked to the time of the freeze. My 'couple of years' might have been spurious but, considering the stated goal might only be realised a day before the freeze (or not at all), the merit of putting a focus on a decision date as pre-freeze isn't clear. Personally, I don't see why they feel the need to change. I'm not a big fan of systemd, with it's combined bin and sbin directory trees, it's binary log formats. And if I am honest, it seems to put entirely too much control in systemd's hands, and if I may be so bold, it gets away from the Unix philosophy. Instead of a bunch of small apps that do one thing extraordinarily well (e.g. grep, sed, awk, sort, uniq, etc.), we now have a large overseeer application which seems to take the one ring to rule them all approach. (And yes, I may be generalizing here, since I am just starting my exploration of systemd, but what I have seen so far, I'm not enamored with.) What's wrong with sysvinit? It's not broken. Hell, the BSDs and Slackware still use a BSD-style startup. I feel like Debian is looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Even if the decision was made in February/March/April would this imply going into Jessie with a new init system is a realistic possibility? I'm not even going in to the debate about the political pros and cons for going with systemd vs. upstart. Just suffice it to say that there are an awful lot of distros that depend on Debian for this to be a decision to be rushed in to...It's not like sysvinit is going to turn into a pumpkin... Just my 2 cents. --b
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Saturday 14 December 2013 15:02:04 Bob Proulx wrote: In my opinion one of the best features of Debian is that it supports upgrades. It isn't necessary to reinstall. At worst it is easier to take some _packages_ (some packages not the system, such as GNOME or KDE) off the system before doing a full upgrade and then re-installing those packages. But that is so much easier than dealing with the entire system. Is it also easy to switch arch from x86 to x86_64? Kind of related question : is there a tool for removing all config files that aren't used by any currently installed package? Yes. By not used I assume you mean from a package that has been installed and then been removed. ... Thanks for the detailed explanation. In Gentoo I was using a custom Python script for searching orphans. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/6548322.Kga0afgAJd@melforce
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On 15/12/13 20:04, Pavel Volkov wrote: On Saturday 14 December 2013 15:02:04 Bob Proulx wrote: In my opinion one of the best features of Debian is that it supports upgrades. It isn't necessary to reinstall. At worst it is easier to take some _packages_ (some packages not the system, such as GNOME or KDE) off the system before doing a full upgrade and then re-installing those packages. But that is so much easier than dealing with the entire system. snipped Kind of related question : is there a tool for removing all config files that aren't used by any currently installed package? Yes. By not used I assume you mean from a package that has been installed and then been removed. ... Thanks for the detailed explanation. In Gentoo I was using a custom Python script for searching orphans. You may also find bleachbit, localepurge, and debfoster useful If a new package is encountered or if debfoster notices that a package that used to be a dependency is now an orphan, it will ask you what to do with it. If you decide to keep it, debfoster will just take note and continue. If you decide that this package is not interesting enough it will be removed as soon as debfoster is done asking questions. If your choices cause other packages to become orphaned more questions will ensue. deborphan is extremely useful, and simple. e.g.:- # apt-get -s remove `deborphan` | more Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52ad7498.2050...@gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
2013-12-15 10:04 keltezéssel, Pavel Volkov írta: In my opinion one of the best features of Debian is that it supports upgrades. It isn't necessary to reinstall. At worst it is easier to take some _packages_ (some packages not the system, such as GNOME or KDE) off the system before doing a full upgrade and then re-installing those packages. But that is so much easier than dealing with the entire system. Is it also easy to switch arch from x86 to x86_64? No. Switching is possible but not easy and there are a lot of possibility to make the system unusable. A fresh install is much safer in this case. -- --- Friczy --- 'Death is not a bug, it's a feature' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52ad9fbd.5060...@freemail.hu
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Fri, 2013-12-13 at 16:14 +, Tom H wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Thu 12 Dec 2013 at 23:37:31 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: I've browsed through the hot debates here https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem and the LWN article https://lwn.net/Articles/572805/ But there's no mention about when the deadline for the final decision on future init system(s) is. I have to prepare my heart for it, does anybody know? Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. The Debian release date isn't set but its freeze date is 5 November 2014 and that's the important date in respect of this decision. But the earlier in the cycle that a decision is taken, the better. So if I later today set up Debian stable, I better directly drop init and install systemd during installation? I dislike systemd, but I already use it for a long time with my Arch Linux. IOW, Debian will drop init and will switch to systemd in the future? My post had nothing to do with either with systemd specifically or with Debian Stable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SzjXbw7qe8RoDT4xvyQvNUzQBj4UEZ9oj6CpJU=ih3...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 11:38:31 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. What difference does it make whether the decision is made before or after the freeze? If it's made after the freeze, sysvinit wil be the default init system in Debian 8. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SxYHbYyJ4ZGMg3_Hv4OOGY1egF52=lb4w-8nzfmdll...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Sun 15 Dec 2013 at 14:03:36 +, Tom H wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 11:38:31 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. What difference does it make whether the decision is made before or after the freeze? If it's made after the freeze, sysvinit wil be the default init system in Debian 8. The goal to have native systemd support in every package with sysv scripts (if accepted) and a decision on a new init system may be related, but only the first is linked to the time of the freeze. My 'couple of years' might have been spurious but, considering the stated goal might only be realised a day before the freeze (or not at all), the merit of putting a focus on a decision date as pre-freeze isn't clear. Even if the decision was made in February/March/April would this imply going into Jessie with a new init system is a realistic possibility? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131215181911.go5...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Friday 13 December 2013 10:44:24 Bob Proulx wrote: In the future if Debian changes to a new init then it will be set up such that there is an upgrade path from one to the other. Because there are *lots* of Debian machines out in the world and Debian is all about being able to upgrade. It's great to hear that, I never upgraded Debian the official way (only reinstalled, for a few reasons). Kind of related question : is there a tool for removing all config files that aren't used by any currently installed package? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/6058949.oGYWIzQogF@melforce
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Friday 13 December 2013 17:26:01 Ralf Mardorf wrote: So if I later today set up Debian stable, I better directly drop init and install systemd during installation? I dislike systemd, but I already use it for a long time with my Arch Linux. IOW, Debian will drop init and will switch to systemd in the future? Why do you think it will be systemd? Read the wiki page from my initial mail https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem You can click on systemd, upstart etc. there and see why it's considered good or bad. As a Gentoo guy, I'll be most satisfied though if they choose systemd for Linux and openrc for kFreeBSD and Hurd :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1876481.1l7VOrDlHC@melforce
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 18:13:29 +, Brian wrote: On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 11:38:31 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. What difference does it make whether the decision is made before or after the freeze? An excerpt from Apologies for the previous noise. After catching up on recent posts to #727708 and debian-ctte a clearer understanding of what progress is being made emerges. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/14122013104153.7bf526456...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
Pavel Volkov wrote: Brian wrote: The call for release goals has finished and we have received the following proposals: * UTF-8 What's wrong with UTF-8 currently? fmt: incorrect formatting of UTF-8 text http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=650381 tr: fails to replace umlauts http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=388689 tr fails with UTF-8 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431231 _CTYPE with UTF-8 doesn't work correctly http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=139861 tr cannot handle unicode http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613155 uniq: merges obscure Cyrillic characters http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649729 I am sure there is more. Coreutils is probably the worse off because all of the patches to address the problem have been deemed not to be maintainable and so have been rejected. For some reason tr seems to catch the worse of the notice but all of the coreutils basically have the same issue in that they handle byte size characters only. And along with coreutils there are bound to be other programs that are similarly designed for single byte characters. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:06:43 +0100, Pavel Volkov negai...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it will be systemd? Read the wiki page from my initial mail https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem You can click on systemd, upstart etc. there and see why it's considered good or bad. I ask, because this is what I understood when reading a previous mail. I for sure never ever will read any arguments about an alternative to init scripts again. The mailing list of my main distro (Arch general mailing list) became moderated and some users were banned from the list, caused by the transition from init scripts to systemd. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/op.w73q2fgkqhadp0@suse11-2
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
Pavel Volkov wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:
In the future if Debian changes to a new init then it will be set up
such that there is an upgrade path from one to the other. Because
there are *lots* of Debian machines out in the world and Debian is all
about being able to upgrade.
It's great to hear that, I never upgraded Debian the official way (only
reinstalled, for a few reasons).
In my opinion one of the best features of Debian is that it supports
upgrades. It isn't necessary to reinstall. At worst it is easier to
take some _packages_ (some packages not the system, such as GNOME or
KDE) off the system before doing a full upgrade and then re-installing
those packages. But that is so much easier than dealing with the
entire system.
Kind of related question : is there a tool for removing all config
files that aren't used by any currently installed package?
Yes. By not used I assume you mean from a package that has been
installed and then been removed. Removed is different from
purged. A package that is purged has all related files removed
including conffiles in /etc. A removed package has conffiles in
/etc left behind so that the package could be installed again and the
previous configuration resumed. That is very convenient. But it
means that a lot of systems build up a lot of old files in /etc from
packages that have been removed. Sometimes those old files cause
problems.
Get a list of removed packages that still have conffiles remaining
behind.
$ dpkg -l | grep ^rc
Then remove the packages that you don't want. I will mention some
tools for helping with this process but it can't be fully automated
because no one but you as the local admin know what files in /etc you
have edited that you want to keep around.
deborphan
orphaner
I tend to use grep-status to search for these.
$ dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/{print$2}'
Or using the more precise tools for the task:
$ grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus deinstall ok config-files
Then after inspection I purge the list.
dpkg --purge $(grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus deinstall ok config-files)
Sometimes I hit all of the library packages first. Because I don't
usually edit config files associated with libraries. Libs start with
the ^lib pattern. That can quickly reduce the size of a large list
from an unmaintained machine so that the interesting packages are more
visible.
grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus deinstall ok config-files | grep ^lib
What problems do these rc packages with conffiles left behind cause?
Here are a couple of the most common reasons.
The most notable source of problems are /etc/init.d/foo where foo
doesn't have current LSB headers. Those files cause problems when
upgrading because the new 'insserv' program used in Wheezy to set up
parallel booting can't work without the dependency information in the
LSB headers. Those files and packages should definitely be cleaned
up.
The second notable source that I see is in PHP libraries.
Historically most often in the php5-gd package but also some others.
Installed packages install the gd.so library. Removing it will remove
the library but leave the conffile that loads the library behind
causing a restart of Apache to complain that it can't load the library
that it is configured to load. I think this is fixed in all current
packages for a while but older packages that are removed but still
with conffiles remaining behind do not get upgraded. So they are
stuck in time with the old broken problem. Solution is to purge the
package that owns the conffile and is causing trouble.
Bob
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Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Thu 12 Dec 2013 at 23:37:31 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: I've browsed through the hot debates here https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem and the LWN article https://lwn.net/Articles/572805/ But there's no mention about when the deadline for the final decision on future init system(s) is. I have to prepare my heart for it, does anybody know? Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. The Debian release date isn't set but its freeze date is 5 November 2014 and that's the important date in respect of this decision. But the earlier in the cycle that a decision is taken, the better. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=swq7pozcqx9ynfscen68bvs9r5v5xu8hxrzfsmlu0k...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri, 2013-12-13 at 16:14 +, Tom H wrote: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Thu 12 Dec 2013 at 23:37:31 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: I've browsed through the hot debates here https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem and the LWN article https://lwn.net/Articles/572805/ But there's no mention about when the deadline for the final decision on future init system(s) is. I have to prepare my heart for it, does anybody know? Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. The Debian release date isn't set but its freeze date is 5 November 2014 and that's the important date in respect of this decision. But the earlier in the cycle that a decision is taken, the better. So if I later today set up Debian stable, I better directly drop init and install systemd during installation? I dislike systemd, but I already use it for a long time with my Arch Linux. IOW, Debian will drop init and will switch to systemd in the future? Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386951961.688.214.camel@archlinux
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
Ralf Mardorf wrote: Tom H wrote: But the earlier in the cycle that a decision is taken, the better. So if I later today set up Debian stable, I better directly drop init and install systemd during installation? No. In Debian Stable today the default is sysvinit and everything has been tested to work with it. In Stable today trying to use systemd will cause problems because all of the migrations needed for it to work easily haven't been made. A few souls have put in the effort to make the switch but it isn't a stock solution yet. If you want to experiment with systemd then the best place to do that would be in Sid/Unstable but it isn't clean there yet either. IOW, Debian will drop init and will switch to systemd in the future? That may or may not happen depending upon many things. As Yoda said, Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. I am sure there are bookies somewhere taking bets upon it. In the future if Debian changes to a new init then it will be set up such that there is an upgrade path from one to the other. Because there are *lots* of Debian machines out in the world and Debian is all about being able to upgrade. I have one system that use to be a Woody system at one time but has been continuously upgraded since. Then simply upgrade from the previous Stable to the next Stable. Read the release notes for any special instructions at upgrade time. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri 13 Dec 2013 at 11:38:31 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Jo, 12 dec 13, 20:00:44, Brian wrote: Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. I don't think so. A timeline has not been decided yet, but it is my understanding that a decision is definitely wanted for Jessie and there is already less than a year until freeze. What difference does it make whether the decision is made before or after the freeze? An excerpt from http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/10/msg4.html Proposed Release Goals == The call for release goals has finished and we have received the following proposals: * Native systemd support in every package with sysv scripts * Hardening of ELF binaries (carry over from Wheezy) * debian/rules to honor CC/CXX flags * clang as secondary compiler * piuparts clean archive * Cross Toolchains in the archive * Make the base system cross-buildable * SELinux * UTF-8 We have yet to process these goals listed above; for now they remain only proposed release goals for Jessie. We will be reviewing them and talking to the advocates about them. Accepted goals will be announced later. Would I be correct in assuming that progress towards the implementation of a decision on a future init system would depend on the first goal being attained? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131213181329.gm5...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Fri, 2013-12-13 at 10:44 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: Ralf Mardorf wrote: Tom H wrote: But the earlier in the cycle that a decision is taken, the better. So if I later today set up Debian stable, I better directly drop init and install systemd during installation? No. In Debian Stable today the default is sysvinit and everything has been tested to work with it. In Stable today trying to use systemd will cause problems because all of the migrations needed for it to work easily haven't been made. Thank you! (I reply with just a thank you, since I guess it's good to note that for stable it's better to keep it as is and not to care about the future. I worried about a transition, if I ever should upgrade to the next release.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386958470.688.240.camel@archlinux
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Friday 13 December 2013 18:13:29 Brian wrote: The call for release goals has finished and we have received the following proposals: * UTF-8 What's wrong with UTF-8 currently? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/3576906.ODU6FxOcE6@melforce
Deadline for jessie init system choice
I've browsed through the hot debates here https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem and the LWN article https://lwn.net/Articles/572805/ But there's no mention about when the deadline for the final decision on future init system(s) is. I have to prepare my heart for it, does anybody know? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386903430.UyfjggWZuV@melforce
Re: Deadline for jessie init system choice
On Thu 12 Dec 2013 at 23:37:31 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: I've browsed through the hot debates here https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem and the LWN article https://lwn.net/Articles/572805/ But there's no mention about when the deadline for the final decision on future init system(s) is. I have to prepare my heart for it, does anybody know? Debian doesn't have deadlines. You'll have to wait. Think in terms of a couple of years for a decision to be made. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/12122013195645.227dc295c...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
