Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
JK == Joost Kooij [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JK The supposed audience for Debian-{Lite,Desktop,MagazineCover,Whatever}
JK will probably want X (and giving them fvwm2-95 isn't such a bad idea
JK either.)
From what I hear, the fvwm2-95 is hard to configure. I would
recommend Afterstep, as it is easier to configure. It does, however,
take up a bunch of colours...
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Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
KG == Kai Grossjohann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KG See Section 6 Profile Screens. Hmmm, that looks indeed promising. I'm looking forward to seeing that :) -- SSM - Stig Sandbeck Mathisen Mary had a little lamb, and the doctor was *very* surprised -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
To get a feel for this, I made up what seemed to be a comfortable working Debian and went through the excercise of creating it from a minimum set of packages. The working Debian was just on 40 Mb and it needed only 8 Mb of packages to produce this, as most files came from base1_3.tgz. In other words the space required in round figures on a cdrom is 12 Mb for the disk-i386 set plus 8Mb for my selection of packages, or 20 Mb. So with 98 Mb available the is 78 Mb free to add other things. I created a new tree which was a partial copy of bo, being just the selected packages and I used the bo Packages.gz file as is. dpkg was quite happy with this. The only trick is to unselect all except the required packages before using dpkg --set-selections. Here is the output of my dpkg --get-selections:- adduser install ae install base-files install base-passwd install bashinstall bsdmainutilsinstall bsdutilsinstall cpp install croninstall debianutils install dialog install diffinstall dpkginstall dpkg-ftpinstall e2fsprogs install ed install fileutils install findutils install getty install gpm install grepinstall groff install gzipinstall hostnameinstall isapnptools install kbd install ldsoinstall libc5 install libdb1 install libg++27install libgdbm1install libnet install libreadline2install liloinstall login install lpr install mailx install makedev install man-db install manpagesinstall mawkinstall mbr install mime-supportinstall modconf install modutilsinstall mount install ncurses-baseinstall ncurses-bin install ncurses3.0 install netbase install netstd install nvi install passwd install perlinstall ppp install procps install sed install setserial install shellutils install smail install sysklogdinstall syslinuxinstall sysvinitinstall tar install textutils install timezoneinstall update install util-linux install =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lindsay Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perth, Western Australia voice +61 8 9316 2486modem +61 8 9364-9832 32S, 116E =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble?
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Lindsay Allen wrote:
To get a feel for this, I made up what seemed to be a comfortable working
Debian and went through the excercise of creating it from a minimum set of
packages. The working Debian was just on 40 Mb and it needed only 8 Mb
of packages to produce this, as most files came from base1_3.tgz.
[snip]
Here is the output of my dpkg --get-selections:-
[snip]
Very nice. Did these packages all configure without problems and
difficult questions to answer?
Here are some ideas for the remaining 72 Mb:
The supposed audience for Debian-{Lite,Desktop,MagazineCover,Whatever}
will probably want X (and giving them fvwm2-95 isn't such a bad idea
either.)
Would including only the vga-16, s3 and svga servers do? I figure these
cover 95% of the market of new computers. If people have a different card
they can run vga-16 and grab a better server when they are on the net.
Speaking about the net, how about including dunc? It takes most of the
work (and possible mistakes) out of the hands of the starter.
Joost
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Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
- Here are some ideas for the remaining 72 Mb:
-
- The supposed audience for Debian-{Lite,Desktop,MagazineCover,Whatever}
- will probably want X (and giving them fvwm2-95 isn't such a bad idea
- either.)
I think fvwm2-95 will be a little too complicated to configure
for newbies (I never managed to do it. I'am now using afterstep and I'am
very happy with it).
One of the first thing a newbie does is trying to change the
colors and so on, of his desktop. So this will have to be easy to do.
Doing it using configuration file is a good thing since it is a first
step to linux configuration.
Franck
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Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Lindsay Allen writes: In other words the space required in round figures on a cdrom is 12 Mb for the disk-i386 set plus 8Mb for my selection of packages, or 20 Mb. So with 98 Mb available the is 78 Mb free to add other things. One place where I can imagine that a small installation would be popular is on laptops. But for those to work well, you need (i) the apm package, and (ii) recompile the kernel to enable apm support. So I would suggest that among the extra stuff you'd want to have the kernel sources, the pcmcia module sources, and whatever it takes to compile them (gcc + ?). Another package that might be popular is leafnode, for maintaining a local news spool over a dialup line. (Or something similar.) This particular package is small, although its implications for disk usage are not. -- Olaf Weber -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Aug 7, Olaf Weber wrote One place where I can imagine that a small installation would be popular is on laptops. But for those to work well, you need (i) the apm package, and (ii) recompile the kernel to enable apm support. Another area could be linux-ha, which is not ready yet. But when it is there it may be a good idea to have a Debian-Linux-HA-Package ready. By Töns -- pgp fingerprint: 9B AC A5 CB C8 CC FC DC 25 B5 26 9A 5D 28 C0 3D -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, George Bonser wrote: On the other hand, fvwm, the old fvwm, is relatively easy to configure. And since you'll have a fair idea of what applications are likely to be installed (since you'll be packaging them all together on a cd or whatever) you could even provide a pre-set-up .fvwmrc with menus for all the stuff in your distribution, etc... Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Robert == Robert D Hilliard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert I think this should be the main object of a smaller version Robert of debian (Please not Debian Lite!). A normal debian installation Robert loads up a single user machine with a lot of unneeded and unwanted Robert server and network administration stuff. instead of debian-lite, how about little-debian. i doubt they'd sue us. :) -l -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Fri, Aug 01, 1997 at 11:00:20AM +0100, Alec Clews wrote: There is obviously a desire to make a small, simple Debian and so I propose a project to make one available. Do you mean small on the source media? I would think Debian is a scalable as you want at installation. hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, StudIEAust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Student, computer science computer systems engineering.3rd year, RMIT. http://hamish.home.ml.org/ (PGP key here) CPOM: [* ] 50% The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. --Bohr -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Permissions (Was: Re: Debian-Lite : The Project)
w == wb2oyc [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: w I wish that someone with the skills would put together a Linux w better suited to the single user environment where many (most?) of w us use our home systems. Free from all the hassles of permissions, w root privelege to do this or that, etc! Right on! That's one of the things I like with linux. I can do whatever I need from my account without concerning myself with the stability of the system. That's exactly why multi-user protections/permissions and such is a good thing. w I for one, get really frustrated with such things, and it really w ticks me off that if I ftp a file then I can't move it to some w directory before I unzip it or thin gs like that. That's what /tmp is for, and I usually have root logged in at the console, and switch to that window (or use sudo) every time I need permission to do something to the system. w Everyone says don't run as root and use 'su' but damnit, some of w this is nuts when the machine is really only an individual's w workstation, or at least I think it gets in the way sudo is much easier than su, have you tried that? -- SSM - Stig Sandbeck Mathisen Trust the Computer, the Computer is your Friend -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
GH == Graham Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: GH So that means that if I use a Debian-Lite install I can't ever upgrade GH to a full installation from there? I missed the original post, but GH keeping a dpkg/dselect around for the eventual upgrade to full Debian GH (which may never occur) seems perfectly reasonable. *Dropping* the GH newbie into dpkg/dselect is probably less so, but when they grow GH conversant I see no reason to deny them dpkg/dselect, or to force them GH to reinstall. Dropping them would be a bad idea. I think there might be easier to make something easier to start with. Like a program that just prompts for the role of the computer when you install it: What kind of workstation are you setting up? [ ] normal workstation [ ] Word processor (lyx/latex/emacs ... ) [ ] X-terminal [ ] ... Then behind each of these choices is a number og selected packages which is installed. Then tell the user that if you want more control/configurability, you could try the dpkg/dselect tools provided -- SSM - Stig Sandbeck Mathisen Trust the Computer, the Computer is your Friend -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On 05 Aug 1997, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen said: SSM What kind of workstation are you setting up? SSM [ ] normal workstation SSM [ ] Word processor (lyx/latex/emacs ... ) SSM [ ] X-terminal SSM [ ] ... As I read this, the Deity project is developing something that has this capability. The URL was mentioned earlier in this thread: http://www.verisim.com/~behanw/deity/deity-ui_0.10.html See Section 6 Profile Screens. kai -- Signature? What signature? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
George Bonser writes: All you would do is answer a set of basic questions: Are you on a local network (LAN, most likely ethernet)? Do you have a dial up internet connection? Do you want a text-only system? etc. And a set of applications would be installed. That is exactly what I had in mind. However, I think that the base install also needs work. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem with that is that there are TOO MANY packages available and newbies end up getting into trouble by selecting additional stuff, hitting the conflict resolution screen and getting totally lost. A mini-Debian would never show any package selection screen at any point in the install as I envision it. So that means that if I use a Debian-Lite install I can't ever upgrade to a full installation from there? I missed the original post, but keeping a dpkg/dselect around for the eventual upgrade to full Debian (which may never occur) seems perfectly reasonable. *Dropping* the newbie into dpkg/dselect is probably less so, but when they grow conversant I see no reason to deny them dpkg/dselect, or to force them to reinstall. - -- Graham Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME OK, PGP preferred from stddisclaim import footer pgp_fingerprint = E9 B7 5F A0 F8 88 9E 1E 7C 62 D9 88 E1 03 29 5B -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBM+VvLyqNPSINiVE5AQHA3gP8DJtxOB8Dev9MdyQLiFqq5Kz5wZg5pgf1 BMaOQCnsusog0ziNHW8KNF4OWnmsiaI4luhkd7NAqhUbT67wKVrEHRdg7+Vxj+lG YAVjMvf9mI3XRY+3gMznv46MCWRXx6Y+120VzpZNQiSP/2L2480HD0xi4jQGHDqq uKLb6GFnHA8= =uLcN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Aug 02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15:18:49 Robert D. Hilliard wrote: I think this should be the main object of a smaller version of debian (Please not Debian Lite!). A normal debian installation loads up a single user machine with a lot of unneeded and unwanted server and network administration stuff. Bob Man, do I like this idea! I really like Linux, and all it offers, and I really appreciate Debian, but just yesterday I was saying to myself, I wish that someone with the skills would put together a Linux better suited to the single user environment where many (most?) of us use our home systems. Free from all the hassles of permissions, root privelege to do this or that, etc! Right on! For a user like myself anyway, it sure makes a helluva lot more sense than all the multi-user protections/permissions and such. I for one, get really frustrated with such things, and it really ticks me off that if I ftp a file then I can't move it to some directory before I unzip it or thin gs like that. Everyone says don't run as root and use 'su' but damnit, some of this is nuts when the machine is really only an individual's workstation, or at least I think it gets in the way, and probably frustrates the hell out of a lot of people that finally give it up! Paul Paul, please consider, that one reason that there are no such things as virusses in linux is, that a virus would kill only the files it is privilegded to. So if every program (even the untrusted ones) would run with root privileges, you would have more than the minor hassles, that you have now. A virus run with user permissions would kill only the users home directory. A virus run with root permissions would kill your harddisk. Another point of view: A small typo in a news cron script running as user news could kill unread news. A small typo in a news cron script running as user root could kill everything on the harddisk. Please reconsider your opinion. Is it really so annoying to have root logged in somewhere on tty5, and to switch to it via Alt+F5? Thank you, Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god. Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: Alan is absolutely right. The base install will always include a dpkg/dselect tool. There are certain components of base that are always necessary in order to provide a maintainable and upgradable system. These will always need to be installed and kept available. The problem with that is that there are TOO MANY packages available and newbies end up getting into trouble by selecting additional stuff, hitting the conflict resolution screen and getting totally lost. A mini-Debian would never show any package selection screen at any point in the install as I envision it. George Bonser Why is it that the same people that tell us that manned space flight is a waste of money also tell us that we have been visited by aliens? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, John F wrote: Couldn't dpkg generate a list of existing installed packages? Then a simple script could take that list and run dpkg -i on them. dpkg --help: dpkg --get-selections [pattern ...] get list of selections to stdout dpkg --set-selections set package selections from stdin This does exactly what you are looking for. However, I'm not sure if dselect will remove packages if they aren't on the list when set-selections is run. Anyone care to enlighten me? It seems like debian-lite (or whatever) could create a long list based on a few questions, and install from a complete debian cd. The only thing you have to change is the root .bash_profile after a base disk installation (this means a one file change from the regular distribution, sounds like the easiest approach to me, and easy for upkeep). Diety also seems like an easy solution to this: http://www.verisim.com/~behanw/deity/deity-ui_0.10.html See section 6. It describes profiles indetifying what type of machine you are running so you are only presented with a partial list of packages. I don't want to start a thread on diety, they already have their own mailing list. The url is only a proposal, nothing has actually been released to the public (I don't think anything has even been made). Comments? Brandon - Brandon Mitchell E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7877/home.html We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. --Linus Torvalds -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Dear Carl, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a Linux or Unix expert, but as an experienced software trainer and former network manager and customer support person, I hope I'd be able to contribute some experience with the thought processes of the non-expert. Yes, please do. We need as much feedback as possible. Also we need to make everything as baby proof as possible. I am sure that many users (including technical) appreciate this sort of setup (thought without loosing the flexibility one requires; that would be too window'ish) I think people might be drifting away from the initial idea of the Debian Lite project, namely a small, very simple to install version with minimal admin and network tools, to be installed by newbies. Other things that have been suggested (like tailored distributions for game developers and programmers), while worthy ideas, aren't really related to the Lite idea. Yes and no. Lite could be one of the packaging configurations (why not the test bed for this project). This means that this particular package configuration would be as you said: a small, very simple to install version with minimal admin and network tools, to be installed by newbies. It is just the means (technically speaking) to achieve that lite setup that is important (in my opinion). If it is something that is hardcoded or hard to change etc problems would arise. My suggestion was only to make it modular allowing it to grow, and therfore, not only serve the needs of lite users but also other power users (such as developers etc). Linux community seems to be very diversified. I think it would not be fair to just address the needs of lite users (though I understand (and support) the priorities to make Debian as user friendly and simple as possible). Also, I am sure that in the process of deciding what *is* Lite (or whatever it will be called) you will find conflicting interests. One user might think lite needs to have this the other thinks that to be better... and so on. I bet you will need some sort of final authority to eventually come up with a lite version. Other distributions would not have this problem as they decide what is lite and what is not lite. In debian we have everyone deciding...(or at least lobbying ;-) ). This is why I think flexibility is important. Ok. My point is Debian lite can and should be given priority. Nevertheless the mechanism to get a lite version should be as flexible, scalable and modular as possible to allow other Linux users (such as developers) to have their own lite too (as well as other benefits like frozen know sane configurations, etc etc). I really don't see this affecting Lite but rather supporting it. I'd be glad to help out with the Debian Lite project, if asked. Well I am too like you just a contributor. :-) I really enjoy the Linux (and the Debian distribution) spirit. I think if we keep it this way (which once it grows might be harder as ppl *will* try to snatch it) it will be a great OS!!! (well my opinion) All the best! David -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, David M wrote: Also users can backup a certain working state of their sytems into a packaging configuration file wich could then be used to reinstall (add, delete, etc) to that particular configuration. This is a great idea! Mind you, the only times I've had to do a complete re-install with Debian were after a security scare where I couldn't tell what may/maynot have been modified, or after a massive hardware upgrade. But for the purposes of say, building a new server that replicates an existing one I think this could be very handy. Couldn't dpkg generate a list of existing installed packages? Then a simple script could take that list and run dpkg -i on them. John -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Hello ppl, I have been (quitely) reading the Debian project thread and I was wondering whether the following is possible. Why do we have to limit ourselves to debian-lite or any such subset of Debian? Is it not possible to have some sort of pre-packaged configuration files, that you load with dselect for example and installs all the components as specified in that package configuration? Like this we could have Debian for begginers, for programmers, for game programmers, for students, for home users, for you name it. Everyone could contribute packaging configuration (including customized ones) and dselect (or a new tool if dselect is not suitable) would just ensure all those packages within the package configuration work together (dependencies etc). Some standard package configurations would be available and tested and supported by Debian... others contributed. Also users can backup a certain working state of their sytems into a packaging configuration file wich could then be used to reinstall (add, delete, etc) to that particular configuration. In this way you only have to choose a certain overall system (e.g single home user) and the utility (e.g dselect or whatever) does the rest (getting the individual packages pertaining to that packaging configuration)! Of course you can add/substract and have all the current power of customization of Debian if you so desire... Your comments :-) Regards, David -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Alan is absolutely right. The base install will always include a dpkg/dselect tool. There are certain components of base that are always necessary in order to provide a maintainable and upgradable system. These will always need to be installed and kept available. The current packaging system already allows for changing selections, so the installation procedure could present choices and then set the database accordingly. This could mark packages for removal or installation. This raises the question of whether a package belongs in base or not. If there is to be no serial port usage at all (not uncommon) why is setserial found in binary/base? It would be best if packages in base were only removed when replaced with upgrades or alternatives. Fragmentation of packages could actually be desirable if done right. Sometimes all a user wants is foo-util and has to install foo-tools to get it. For those who upgrade via ftp proper fragmentation could be a big help. Sometimes a large package file is downloaded because a few lines of text have changed. It can be worse with source. The xfree86 source is packed into a 42mb file. Additional control info fields might be a help. When experienced users are building a server, they don't want any docs or examples installed. Network installation of a package would put shared files on one machine but there could be private config or status files which are needed on each local machine. This would allow the package installer to simply verify that the latest binaries are present (even though they are readonly) and then install the local files. This would make it easy to build network workstations. On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Alan Eugene Davis wrote: Possibly the need for Debian Lite would be lessened with completion of a friendly dselect or replacement for dselect, that would present some reasonable options. My biggest worry is the multiplication of packages. Perhaps it is an inevitable situation with the kind of distribution that Debian is, but I am beginning to be intimidated by the fragmentation of packages into this and that spin-off. Like *-altdev, for example. I still use dpkg, cause I don't seem to jibe with the dselect mentality---I live in fear of completely trashing my system, irrevocably, using dselect, and any other software that makes those kinds of global decisions for me. I'm never sure when I have everything turned off. I also think that it may be useful to incorporate new fields into the info file for each package, indicating more information about relationships to other packages than only conflicts and requires. Alan Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.X + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Possibly the need for Debian Lite would be lessened with completion of a friendly dselect or replacement for dselect, that would present some reasonable options. My biggest worry is the multiplication of packages. Perhaps it is an inevitable situation with the kind of distribution that Debian is, but I am beginning to be intimidated by the fragmentation of packages into this and that spin-off. Like *-altdev, for example. I still use dpkg, cause I don't seem to jibe with the dselect mentality---I live in fear of completely trashing my system, irrevocably, using dselect, and any other software that makes those kinds of global decisions for me. I'm never sure when I have everything turned off. I also think that it may be useful to incorporate new fields into the info file for each package, indicating more information about relationships to other packages than only conflicts and requires. Alan Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Sat, 02 Aug 1997 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15:18:49 Robert D. Hilliard wrote: I think this should be the main object of a smaller version of debian (Please not Debian Lite!). A normal debian installation loads up a single user machine with a lot of unneeded and unwanted server and network administration stuff. Bob Man, do I like this idea! I really like Linux, and all it offers, and I really appreciate Debian, but just yesterday I was saying to myself, I wish that someone with the skills would put together a Linux better suited to the single user environment where many (most?) of us use our home systems. Free from all the hassles of permissions, root privelege to do this or that, etc! Right on! For a user like myself anyway, it sure makes a helluva lot more sense than all the multi-user protections/permissions and such. I for one, get really frustrated with such things, and it really ticks me off that if I ftp a file then I can't move it to some directory before I unzip it or thin gs like that. Everyone says don't run as root and use 'su' but damnit, some of this is nuts when the machine is really only an individual's workstation, or at least I think it gets in the way, and probably frustrates the hell out of a lot of people that finally give it up! Paul I didn't mean to go that far. I've done too much damage running as root when it wasn't necessary - even when it is necessary to run as root, and I'm being CAREFUL, I've screwed up more things than I like to admit. I mean to omit news servers, web servers, NFS, NIS, bind and similar programs that are needed by ISP's and network administrators,a but not by an individual running a single user machine. Bob -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On 15:18:49 Robert D. Hilliard wrote: I think this should be the main object of a smaller version of debian (Please not Debian Lite!). A normal debian installation loads up a single user machine with a lot of unneeded and unwanted server and network administration stuff. Bob Man, do I like this idea! I really like Linux, and all it offers, and I really appreciate Debian, but just yesterday I was saying to myself, I wish that someone with the skills would put together a Linux better suited to the single user environment where many (most?) of us use our home systems. Free from all the hassles of permissions, root privelege to do this or that, etc! Right on! For a user like myself anyway, it sure makes a helluva lot more sense than all the multi-user protections/permissions and such. I for one, get really frustrated with such things, and it really ticks me off that if I ftp a file then I can't move it to some directory before I unzip it or thin gs like that. Everyone says don't run as root and use 'su' but damnit, some of this is nuts when the machine is really only an individual's workstation, or at least I think it gets in the way, and probably frustrates the hell out of a lot of people that finally give it up! Paul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Fri, 01 Aug 1997 17:12:30 -0700, Jason Ish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In one of the first posts of this thread I suggested that it be aimed at single user systems will low resource software. ie) Get rid of all the server stuff, the user can install later if they want. Does this fit in somewhere. Jason I think this should be the main object of a smaller version of debian (Please not Debian Lite!). A normal debian installation loads up a single user machine with a lot of unneeded and unwanted server and network administration stuff. Bob -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Alec Clews wrote: Does anyone disagree with this? Are SPI happy to have this functionality in the Official Debian distribution? Does the SPI board have view on any of this? In one of the first posts of this thread I suggested that it be aimed at single user systems will low resource software. ie) Get rid of all the server stuff, the user can install later if they want. Does this fit in somewhere. Jason -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Jason Ish wrote: Does this fit in somewhere. Jason Would not work with what I have in mind for MY particular project since at least a mail and small news service would be required but web service would not be needed. I find it useful to have a POP3 server to read mail, it does not take up a lot of resources and installs correctly out of the box. Cacheing nameserver can speed up CLIENT programs saving access to busy nameservers at the other end of a slow dialup link. George Bonser Why is it that the same people that tell us that manned space flight is a waste of money also tell us that we have been visited by aliens? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Debian-Lite : The Project
There is obviously a desire to make a small, simple Debian and so I propose a project to make one available. Target User Group: MS Windows users and people with limited technical skills how want to install a Linux based system on Intel PC. Aims: +Produce a Debian installation option that provides a fully functionally (to be defined) desktop system with minimal input from the user. +To provide non-technical documenatation for the installation. +To provide tools to extract the files required to create Debian-lite as a subset (100Mb?) suitable for inclusion on a CD with other software +Enhance any standard Debian package installation scripts if any current set up processes are too complicated Tasks: 1) Identify the functionality required by Debian-Lite (DL). (I will post something by 4/AUG) 2) Identify the set of required packages to provide functionality. 3) Identify changes to Debian Base system install to give install and configuration. 4) Design, implement and test installation. 5) Design, implement and test the DL creation scripts. 6) Enhance individual package configuration scripts as required. Issues 1) Do we need to provide umsdos support for root file system? Can it be done? 2) How can users create swap and ext2 slices on a FAT32 system? 3) The DL creation scripts need to be able to create an 8.3 set of files if required. Additional tasks 1) Set up mailling list (I will address this) Does anyone disagree with this? Are SPI happy to have this functionality in the Official Debian distribution? Does the SPI board have view on any of this? Comments please. Regards, Alec -- Alec Clews, [EMAIL PROTECTED], PGP keyid:48FA EB81 TCA Consulting Ltd Tel. 44-(0)171-415-8159 Fax:44-(0)171-556-0022 New CIty Court, 20 St Thomas Street, London, Britain, SE1 9SD == Usual Disclaimers Apply = Personal and PGP key http://www.earth.demon.co.uk/alec -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Alec Clews wrote: There is obviously a desire to make a small, simple Debian and so I propose a project to make one available. +To provide tools to extract the files required to create Debian-lite as a subset (100Mb?) suitable for inclusion on a CD with other software I think should be better that the user installation option produces the Debian-Lite installed system instead of having another CD with the stuff necessary for this. What about the already existing ability of dpkg to read a configuration file whether pre-made or as the result of a QA session? -- (dpkg --get-selection) If you just put a pre-dselect program that can be bypassed by the experienced user but is a must for the newbie one, you can achieve the goal of having a Debian-Lite rising from the Debian system w/o clipping anything from the later. In this manner, after the installation, the user could enhance his system just running dselect, choosing other packages he/she want. Mario O.de Menezes mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Nuclear and Energetic Research Institute - IPEN-CNEN/SP BRAZIL | | http://curiango.ipen.br/~mario | There will be a day when every PC on the world will be a host, not a 'MyComputer'! - mom -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
RE: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Alec Clews wrote: +To provide tools to extract the files required to create Debian-lite as a subset (100Mb?) suitable for inclusion on a CD with other software I think should be better that the user installation option produces the Debian-Lite installed system instead of having another CD with the stuff necessary for this. If you just put a pre-dselect program that can be bypassed by the experienced user but is a must for the newbie one, you can achieve the goal of having a Debian-Lite rising from the Debian system w/o clipping anything from the later. In this manner, after the installation, the user could enhance his system just running dselect, choosing other packages he/she want. My intention is that we provide both. 1) From the full Binary CD the option to install a pre-confgured Debian-Lite system 2) A small footprint set of files to support Debian-Lite for magazines etc. This file set should be extracted from the Official Binary CD. Regards, Alec -- Alec Clews, [EMAIL PROTECTED], PGP keyid:48FA EB81 TCA Consulting Ltd Tel. 44-(0)171-415-8159 Fax:44-(0)171-556-0022 New CIty Court, 20 St Thomas Street, London, Britain, SE1 9SD == Usual Disclaimers Apply = Personal and PGP key http://www.earth.demon.co.uk/alec -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
On Aug 1, Mario Olimpio de Menezes wrote There is obviously a desire to make a small, simple Debian and so I propose a project to make one available. +To provide tools to extract the files required to create Debian-lite as a subset (100Mb?) suitable for inclusion on a CD with other software I think should be better that the user installation option produces the Debian-Lite installed system instead of having another CD with the stuff necessary for this. What about the already existing ability of dpkg to read a configuration file whether pre-made or as the result of a QA session? -- (dpkg --get-selection) I would appreciate having this. This would make it possible to create some basic configuration for several tasks: firewall/router, X11-terminal, workstation, network server, intranet server, dtp etc. Joey -- Individual Network e.V._/ OrgaTech [EMAIL PROTECTED]_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geschaeftszeit: Di+Mi+Fr, 15-18 Uhr _/Tel: (0441) 9808556 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian-Lite : The Project
Does anyone disagree with this? Are SPI happy to have this functionality in the Official Debian distribution? Does the SPI board have view on any of this? i'm only one of 200 developers. i don't have time to work in this project myself, but mail me if i can help you with something. i'm maintaining makedev, mpage and isdnutils if that helps. in the official debian distribution ? let's say : do it the debian way : use existing packages. put your glue into a new package, called debian-lite, with all scripts to produce debian lite. (like we have debian-cdrom to build the official cdrom's, and liek we have boot-floppies to build the boot floppies). if you have to change some packages - mail with the author. i hope that it's possible in all cases to make the packages generic enough for normal (big) debian and debian lite. i don't have much spare time, but if you have got questions, or so, mail me. i like your project. andreas -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
