Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Amos Shapira wrote: I never went all the way about this, but I allways had the suspicion that Slackware's more is actually less renamed. Could you check this? (maybe try more -V?) I dug up my old Slackware 2.0.1 distribution on cdrom and discovered that the /usr/lib/man.config file defined the Pager as less with the `s' option. I was in error, sorry about that, I thought more was used. My provider running System V Release 4 does use more as the man pager and writes out a temp file /tmp/mpa... for more.---Richard
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
How about having each pager program use update-alternatives to provide a possible variant of /usr/bin/pager, and then having man configured by default to use /usr/bin/pager ? This would mean that man couldn't tell that less was being used and give it all those funky arguments with the name of the manpage, c, but it would work better than the current scheme. Ian.
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Guy Maor wrote: Is there any reason the default PAGER on Debian should not be set to less out of the box? less is not a base package, so might not be installed. more is one third the size of less, and it's very important to keep the base packages as small as possible. Couldn't the default scripts check if less is present and set PAGER acordingly? Ben McKeegan CST 1a Fitzwilliam College, University of Cambridge.
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
Ian Jackson: How about having each pager program use update-alternatives to provide a possible variant of /usr/bin/pager, and then having man configured by default to use /usr/bin/pager ? Another possibility would be to fix more so that it can scroll backwards. This shouldn't take more than 20 lines of code (copy stdin to a temporary file if it's not seekable), and would work on smaller systems. [There are a couple optimizations that could be made, but I'd hate to see them get in the way.] -- Raul
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, N. Salwen wrote: I tried this both man and more on my slackware system at home and they both go backwards. I don't have the PAGER variable set. I realize this is slackware but I am surprised at the difference. As someone else pointed out, slackware man most likely writes out a temp file for more. You can check /proc/xx/cmdline where xx is more's pid on your slackware system. Starting the pager at the end of a pipe is a feature; it starts up more quickly. Guy
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
Guy Maor wrote While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. Has anyone else experienced this? My current version of man is 2.3.10-11. If I just use more to read a text file, everything works fine. more can't go backwards on unseekable files, like pipes for example. (man pipes the data out to the viewer so it'll start up faster.) less doesn't have this deficiency. Use it with man by setting the PAGER environment variable to `less'. I tried this both man and more on my slackware system at home and they both go backwards. I don't have the PAGER variable set. I realize this is slackware but I am surprised at the difference.
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Austin Donnelly wrote: Those systems maybe format the manpage to a temporary file, then use more to view that file. Debian's man put the formatted output through a pipe directly to the pager, for speed. Note that you can also do: $ export MANOPT='-Pless' so that you only get less when viewing manpages, not as your default pager (if for some reason you don't like less :) Thanks for the education---`less' works great as the default pager. Uh oh, I feel a suggestion to a developer coming on.:) Is it possible to have `less' or `most' designed into man as the default pager so the environment variable doesn't have to be set? Is there an advantage to using `more' that I'm not aware of? Richard
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
You can define $PAGER as something like cat /tmp/$$;more /tmp/$$;rm /tmp/$$ to get the back-scrolling at the cost of somewhat reduced speed. You won't see the first page until the last has been formatted (which is why we don't do this by default). Bruce -- Pixar's Toy Story: Over 1/3 Billion dollars world box office so far. Bruce Perens AB6YM [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.hams.com/
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
Sorry for the confusion. It turns out that more is not the same as less on slackware but man automatically uses less without a variable set. I'm pretty sure it is not using a temp file. Is there any reason the default PAGER on Debian should not be set to less out of the box? Nathan
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
Is there any reason the default PAGER on Debian should not be set to less out of the box? less is not a base package, so might not be installed. more is one third the size of less, and it's very important to keep the base packages as small as possible. Guy
Debian 1.1 man more
While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. Has anyone else experienced this? My current version of man is 2.3.10-11. If I just use more to read a text file, everything works fine. Richard
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
I think more won't scroll back when it is reading a pipe, only when it is reading a file. Man drives it with a pipe. Bruce -- Clinton isn't perfect, but I like him a whole lot more than Dole. Bruce Perens AB6YM [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.hams.com/
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Richard Lovison wrote: While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. Has anyone else experienced this? My current version of man is 2.3.10-11. If I just use more to read a text file, everything works fine. more can't go backwards on unseekable files, like pipes for example. (man pipes the data out to the viewer so it'll start up faster.) less doesn't have this deficiency. Use it with man by setting the PAGER environment variable to `less'. Guy
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Guy Maor wrote: On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Richard Lovison wrote: While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. more can't go backwards on unseekable files, like pipes for example. (man pipes the data out to the viewer so it'll start up faster.) Hmmm. If my memory serves me right I was able to do this on my old Slackware setup and I am currently able to do this on my provider's system which is running System V Release 4.0. BTW, this is not a complaint, just a statement indicating my confusion and ignorance. :) less doesn't have this deficiency. Use it with man by setting the PAGER environment variable to `less'. I'll do this. Thanks for the help. Richard
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Richard Lovison wrote: While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. Has anyone else experienced this? My current version of man is 2.3.10-11. If I just use more to read a text file, everything works fine. If I remember correctly, this is a deficiency of more wrt pipes. You can correct this in several ways. The simplest is to set PAGER equal to less. Less does not have this problem and is, over all, a better pager than more. Try it, you'll like it! Luck, Dwarf -- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (904) 877-0257 Flexible Software Fax: NONE Black Creek Critters e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you don't see what you want, just ask --
Re: Debian 1.1 man more
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Guy Maor wrote: On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Richard Lovison wrote: While using man to read a manpage I am not able to scroll backwards a page by using b or ^B. more can't go backwards on unseekable files, like pipes for example. (man pipes the data out to the viewer so it'll start up faster.) Hmmm. If my memory serves me right I was able to do this on my old Slackware setup and I am currently able to do this on my provider's system which is running System V Release 4.0. BTW, this is not a complaint, just a statement indicating my confusion and ignorance. :) Those systems maybe format the manpage to a temporary file, then use more to view that file. Debian's man put the formatted output through a pipe directly to the pager, for speed. less doesn't have this deficiency. Use it with man by setting the PAGER environment variable to `less'. Note that you can also do: $ export MANOPT='-Pless' so that you only get less when viewing manpages, not as your default pager (if for some reason you don't like less :) Austin
