Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Joey Hess wrote: This scan functionality is in the program called dpkg-scanpackages. Use it like dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null Packages Thanks. Now it works and I can use apt as the method for dselect. It is realy cool and this proves again that I've done the right thing be choosing Debian. :) Ionutz -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Mike wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Jaakko Niemi wrote: The package management system is largest reason, why I use Debian. and its the largest reason why I use RedHat. Would you care to substantiate this so that we might have some intelligent comment from both sides? -Greg Mildenhall(Running perfectly-stable Hamm) -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Joey Hess wrote: Carl Fink wrote: Also, it is not suitable for installing an entire system (you are advised to install just the base system, then a few more packages, then a few more . . .). If you use apt with dselect, this is no longer a problem, apt fixes it. Joey, don't you mean If you use apt with _dpkg_, or If you use apt _instead_ of dselect? I thought apt is a dselect replacement. -- ...RickM... -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Rick Macdonald wrote: Joey, don't you mean If you use apt with _dpkg_, or If you use apt _instead_ of dselect? I thought apt is a dselect replacement. Apt will eventually be a dselect replacement, once the GUI frontend is working. Currently, it was easy to take the already working part of apt that does dependancy checking, downloads, orders, and installs packages, and make it a dselect method. So [U]pdate and [I]nstall in dpkg get controlled by apt, [S]select is the nasty old screen we all love to hate. -- see shy jo -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Jaakko Niemi wrote: This from the Linux-newbies list: From: Mike Ricketts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Donald Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chris Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED], linux-newbie@vger.rutgers.edu Subject Re: Which distribution is the best? GENERALLY? (fwd) On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Donald Thompson wrote: Chris Fischer wrote: [snip] The debian package manager has to be the biggest worthless piece of junk I've ever been stupid enough to use. Very true. [snip] I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? The package management system is largest reason, why I use Debian. and its the largest reason why I use RedHat. As for installing / uninstalling dpkg -i package.deb installs it and dpkg -r package.deb removes it. Works like charm. And I'm one of those, who like things easy and neat. rpm -i installs and rpm -e removes. No difference there. Don't believe everything you read. no. don't. -- Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is the robbing of a bank compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertold Brecht -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
[snip] I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? The package management system is largest reason, why I use Debian. and its the largest reason why I use RedHat. As for installing / uninstalling dpkg -i package.deb installs it and dpkg -r package.deb removes it. Works like charm. And I'm one of those, who like things easy and neat. rpm -i installs and rpm -e removes. No difference there. apt-get update apt-get upgrade and you have up-to date system. (Ok, grap a few from incoming ..) grin --j -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 10:46:58AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Tue, Jul 07, 1998 at 07:03:57PM -0500, Mark Mealman wrote: Just the C++ part, mind you, C is still compiled by gcc. Ever compile a C++ program that was authored under gcc with egcs' strictly ANSI C++ compiler? Debian 2.0 has this too -- gcc is the GNU standard one (2.7.2.3), g++ is the egcs one (1.0.3a). egcs gcc is also available. Yeah, and this is really great, because gcc 2.7 c++ really sucks (I think this is the thread were anything sucks anyway, so I feel safe to express this :) Honest: I can understand that gcc 2.7 C++ causes problems, but only because gcc 2.7 C++ is so far from any C++ standard it's no fun. However, do we still have the old C++ package in hamm as an optrion for the user? (As we have, for example, a complete libc5 development tree in hamm)? Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, Jul 07, 1998 at 02:47:31PM -0400, Alex Yukhimets wrote: anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? Main Debian package manager (dpkg) is very similar to rpm, they both can install and uninstall packages, etc. What they were talking about is probably dselect - front-end to dpkg which lists all the packages and let you select which packages you want to install, uninstall, upgrade, etc. and then download and install/uninstall/upgrade everything automatically. The main problem of dselect is that user intrerface is a bit non-intuitive and with 1400 packages in archive - a little messy. It does a good job, though. My take is that at first, I was a bit turned off by dselect. Now, though, I just use dpkg, and find it simpler, easier, faster, etc... I think dselect is pretty neat-o, but as said above, a bit non-intuitive. I used to be very anti-package management, but dpkg has worked well for me... I've heard a lot of complaints against Red Hat's package manager, though. shrug -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? Well, Debian is in the process of switching package managers (apt), and supposedly there's a project called deity that will supersede all that has come before, but the current manager, dselect, can do anything rpm can (including installing rpm files) and some other things as well. On the other hand, it's surprisingly and unnecessarily hard to use. Also, it is not suitable for installing an entire system (you are advised to install just the base system, then a few more packages, then a few more . . .). And it can't do automated installs, although the dpkg system that underlies it could be scripted to do so. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] God never bothered to patent his stuff. --Calvin -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Carl Fink wrote: Well, Debian is in the process of switching package managers (apt), and supposedly there's a project called deity that will supersede all that has come before, but the current manager, dselect, can do anything rpm can (including installing rpm files) and some other things as well. This paragraph has several errors that I thought I'd clear up: * Apt is not a replacement for dpkg, it is a layer above it that still uses dpkg for the actual package installs and removes. * Apt is a the new name for deity. not something different. * Dselect/dpkg cannot install rpm files, you have to convert them to .deb format first with alien. On the other hand, it's surprisingly and unnecessarily hard to use. Also, it is not suitable for installing an entire system (you are advised to install just the base system, then a few more packages, then a few more . . .). If you use apt with dselect, this is no longer a problem, apt fixes it. -- see shy jo -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Joey Hess wrote: If you use apt with dselect, this is no longer a problem, apt fixes it. Hi, Just try to use apt and observed it is missing something (at least this is how I see this): it doesn't have a [scan] facility. In other words, it will not let you install packages if you do not have a Packages.gz file and if the files aren't placed where Packagez.gz says. Do am I missing something here ? Because in this way you are forbiden to take some .deb files from the net, put them in a local directory and use dselect to install them ! Ionutz -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Ionut Borcoman at debian wrote: Just try to use apt and observed it is missing something (at least this is how I see this): it doesn't have a [scan] facility. In other words, it will not let you install packages if you do not have a Packages.gz file and if the files aren't placed where Packagez.gz says. Do am I missing something here ? Because in this way you are forbiden to take some .deb files from the net, put them in a local directory and use dselect to install them ! This scan functionality is in the program called dpkg-scanpackages. Use it like dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null Packages -- see shy jo -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 07 Jul 1998, Bob Nielsen wrote: (To be fair, I haven't used Red Hat since 4.2 and it may have improved since then, but they severely mismanaged the conversion to glibc.) RH's gotten worse since then. Bad enough they broke libc with the 4.2 - 5.0 upgrade(I did NOT enjoy editing the binary of my java compiler to get it to work under Glibc at that time), but now they've pushed through another zapper by partially switching over to egcs. Just the C++ part, mind you, C is still compiled by gcc. Ever compile a C++ program that was authored under gcc with egcs' strictly ANSI C++ compiler? Not fun. I ordered Bo last week so I can remove this RH beast from my hard drive before it gets outta control. I figured any distribution that's currently _beta_ testing a libc - glibc transition has got to decently stable and organized. Mark -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, Jul 07, 1998 at 07:03:57PM -0500, Mark Mealman wrote: Just the C++ part, mind you, C is still compiled by gcc. Ever compile a C++ program that was authored under gcc with egcs' strictly ANSI C++ compiler? Debian 2.0 has this too -- gcc is the GNU standard one (2.7.2.3), g++ is the egcs one (1.0.3a). egcs gcc is also available. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Debs: snip Debian 1.3.1 is a year old. Six months ago 2.0 was announced as Near Completion, when it was nearer inception than completion. I'm not ragging on the Debian team, just saying lighten up on Red Hat a little. We're all on the same side, eh? They chose to risk leaping before looking, while Debian risked hesitating. Was the latter more prudent? Maybe. Are my Debian 1.3.1 systems prehistoric? Yes. Is that bad? Sometimes. snip Is *that* what happened to Red Hat? I've been running 4.2 for a while with no problems, but have heard nothing but problems regarding 5.0 and 5.1. So I ordered Debian with the idea that it would be more stable, etc. I ordered 1.3.1 to get a feel for the distribution before I go for the beta 2.0. (Still hasn't arrived yet; hello LSL?) I haven't been able to figure out why RH went so wrong when they were doing so well. How can you mismanage something like this? Paul M. Foster -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Pete Harlan wrote: Bob Nielsen writes: (To be fair, I haven't used Red Hat since 4.2 and it may have improved since then, but they severely mismanaged the conversion to glibc.) He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones, methinks... Debian 1.3.1 is a year old. Six months ago 2.0 was announced as Near Completion, when it was nearer inception than completion. what an odd opinion. i've been running hamm on my home machines and desktop box at work since bo became frozen and hamm became unstable. that's a good time to flag as hamm's inception date. It became good enough for me to trust on production servers around six months later in September last year. IMO, hamm was good enough for use by the general public since around Nov or Dec. debian doesn't have the commercial pressures that RH has, so we can afford to be perfectionist about what we do. i'd rather have it done right than done hastily. I'm not ragging on the Debian team, just saying lighten up on Red Hat a little. We're all on the same side, eh? They chose to risk leaping before looking, while Debian risked hesitating. Was the latter more prudent? Maybe. Are my Debian 1.3.1 systems prehistoric? Yes. Is that bad? Sometimes. i don't think bob was attacking RH at all. he was just stating a truth - RH *did* mismanage the upgrade to glibcas everyone who risked RH5.0 found out. They should not have released 5.0 in the state it was in. if pre-historic software is a bigger concern to you than running pre-release software is, then you could have upgraded to hamm at any time in the last 6 to 9 months without facing any major problems. you certainly would have had a better, more stable glibc system than if you had tried RH5. what did debian risk by taking the time to do it right? not a lot. a few impatient users may have chosen to install RH5 rather than wait for hamm or trial the pre-release version from the ftp site. big deal, like that really hurts debian a lot. craig -- craig sanders -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
This from the Linux-newbies list: From: Mike Ricketts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Donald Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chris Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED], linux-newbie@vger.rutgers.edu Subject Re: Which distribution is the best? GENERALLY? (fwd) On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Donald Thompson wrote: Chris Fischer wrote: [snip] The debian package manager has to be the biggest worthless piece of junk I've ever been stupid enough to use. Very true. [snip] I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? The package management system is largest reason, why I use Debian. As for installing / uninstalling dpkg -i package.deb installs it and dpkg -r package.deb removes it. Works like charm. And I'm one of those, who like things easy and neat. Don't believe everything you read. -j -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
This from the Linux-newbies list: From: Mike Ricketts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Donald Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chris Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED], linux-newbie@vger.rutgers.edu Subject Re: Which distribution is the best? GENERALLY? (fwd) On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Donald Thompson wrote: Chris Fischer wrote: [snip] The debian package manager has to be the biggest worthless piece of junk I've ever been stupid enough to use. Very true. [snip] I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? Thanks, Marcus -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:23:52 -0700 (PDT), Marcus Johnson wrote: This from the Linux-newbies list: Gotta love that it sucks mentality of todays youth. :/ -- Steve C. Lamb | Opinions expressed by me are not my http://www.calweb.com/~morpheus| employer's. They hired me for my ICQ: 5107343 | skills and labor, not my opinions! ---+- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Steve Lamb wrote: On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:23:52 -0700 (PDT), Marcus Johnson wrote: This from the Linux-newbies list: Gotta love that it sucks mentality of todays youth. :/ Yeah, I know, I work with youth and its quite a challenge. In their frequently expressed opinion everything sucks and there's no value in anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? ttys, Marcus -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Marcus Johnson wrote: anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? No, I can't. I have never used RPM. However, Debian with dselect is quite hard to beat. And of course there is an uninstall manager. -- Steve C. Lamb | Opinions expressed by me are not my http://www.calweb.com/~morpheus| employer's. They hired me for my ICQ: 5107343 | skills and labor, not my opinions! ---+- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? Main Debian package manager (dpkg) is very similar to rpm, they both can install and uninstall packages, etc. What they were talking about is probably dselect - front-end to dpkg which lists all the packages and let you select which packages you want to install, uninstall, upgrade, etc. and then download and install/uninstall/upgrade everything automatically. The main problem of dselect is that user intrerface is a bit non-intuitive and with 1400 packages in archive - a little messy. It does a good job, though. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Thank you! Marcus On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? Main Debian package manager (dpkg) is very similar to rpm, they both can install and uninstall packages, etc. What they were talking about is probably dselect - front-end to dpkg which lists all the packages and let you select which packages you want to install, uninstall, upgrade, etc. and then download and install/uninstall/upgrade everything automatically. The main problem of dselect is that user intrerface is a bit non-intuitive and with 1400 packages in archive - a little messy. It does a good job, though. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Marcus Johnson wrote: Yeah, I know, I work with youth and its quite a challenge. In their frequently expressed opinion everything sucks and there's no value in anything. Anyway, could you compare RPMs and the Debian package manager? Also is there some kind of uninstall manager? RedHat's rpm and Debian's dpkg command-line interfaces work quite similarly. Debian has dselect which is a full screen interface, while Red Had has something called glint which only works in X and is sort of lame. both rpm and dpkg handle unstallation fine. Debian has generally been better at dealing with dependencies and at upgrading to newer versions. Debian has a new tool called apt which currently only works from command line or dselect, but works great. It will have a GUI interface eventually. (To be fair, I haven't used Red Hat since 4.2 and it may have improved since then, but they severely mismanaged the conversion to glibc.) When apt is fully functional, that should blow away everything else. Bob Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
On 07/07/98 at 11:23 AM, Marcus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: This from the Linux-newbies list: From: Mike Ricketts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Donald Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chris Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED], linux-newbie@vger.rutgers.edu Subject Re: Which distribution is the best? GENERALLY? (fwd) On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Donald Thompson wrote: Chris Fischer wrote: [snip] The debian package manager has to be the biggest worthless piece of junk I've ever been stupid enough to use. Very true. [snip] I'm new to Linux and wavering between going with Red Hat and Debian. Could anyone comment on the strengths/weaknesses of the Debian package manager vs RH's RPM system? Also does Debian provide some kind of Uninstall-type manager? Thanks, Marcus Well, I didn't notice that post in Linux Newbies, so I'll respond here. Debian's dselect beats RedHat's RPM so badly it isn't even funny. It figures out the dependency problems, configures (or leaves configuration until later - your option), is pick and choose (both install and removal), and it didn't lock me into someone's idea of what I wanted by default. I've tried both RH and Debian, my $0.02 is rather simplistic. Is this for a non-techie? Get RH. Is this for a techie that doesn't want to fiddle with searching out all the dependencies? Get Debian. Is this for a total control freak techie (wants everything manual)? Get Slackware or Debian. George A computer virus can be said to either 1) trash your hard drive, 2) lock up your computer, or 3) slow down your computer over time. Sounds like windows to me. -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian Package Manager Worthless Junk???
Bob Nielsen writes: (To be fair, I haven't used Red Hat since 4.2 and it may have improved since then, but they severely mismanaged the conversion to glibc.) He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones, methinks... Debian 1.3.1 is a year old. Six months ago 2.0 was announced as Near Completion, when it was nearer inception than completion. I'm not ragging on the Debian team, just saying lighten up on Red Hat a little. We're all on the same side, eh? They chose to risk leaping before looking, while Debian risked hesitating. Was the latter more prudent? Maybe. Are my Debian 1.3.1 systems prehistoric? Yes. Is that bad? Sometimes. -- Pete Harlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
