Re: Debian on the shuttle
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dave Van Dijck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Maybe a new project could be started to create a good desktop that takes a few > good idea's from other desktops like win95 and OS/2's PM, and adds idea's of > it's own. It has been tried several times before, examples : GREAT, tkdesk, > xfm, xfilemanager, TheNextLevel, etc... but none of them really got me too > excited. > Well, just have a close look at the "Kool Desktop Environment's" homepage at "http://www.kde.org";. Maybe they are offering what you are looking for!? P. *8^) -- Paul Seelig [EMAIL PROTECTED] African Music Archive - Institute for Ethnology and Africa Studies Johannes Gutenberg-University - Forum 6 - 55099 Mainz/Germany Our AMA Homepage in the WWW at http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bender/
Debian on the shuttle
* Reply to a message in linux-debian-users. Jason Killen wrote in a message to Dave Van Dijck: --==>OT-RSN: MOVED by text! JK> From: Jason Killen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> JK> To: "W. Joseph Mantle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> JK> cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org JK> Why does everyone keep saying that X should look like Win 95. I JK> don't want to get into a shouting match about which is easer to use JK> and those people who like the Win 95 look and feel can stick with JK> it. I just don't like the fact that some people feel we should JK> masqurade(?), I feel we should give the option of looking like 95 JK> but is looking like 95 that big of a deal. I guess my tiff is not JK> with the people working on making X look like 95 but more with JK> people who compare all operating systems and user interfaces with JK> Win 95. JK> Sorry for the rant...I'll be quiet now. I think you're absolutely right. Agreed, there are good things about the win95 desktop that X could use, but not everything about it is good (eg. the start menu really sucks IMHO, and fvwm already had a thing like that.) Maybe a new project could be started to create a good desktop that takes a few good idea's from other desktops like win95 and OS/2's PM, and adds idea's of it's own. It has been tried several times before, examples : GREAT, tkdesk, xfm, xfilemanager, TheNextLevel, etc... but none of them really got me too excited. What most of them really lacked, was the ability to alter the desktop without having to edit some config files of some sort. Well, waddya say folks? Greetz, Dave
Re: Debian on the shuttle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Perens) writes: > One must be brief in these things, > otherwise nobody reads them. You're right. It was worth reading your mail - I hope that's get printed all over the world! pgpmMv0M0tuuV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian on the shuttle
> Why does everyone keep saying that X should look like Win 95. I don't want This I totally disagree!!! I'd rather prefer X to work more like OS/2 :P. AFAIK, win95's interface is not as Object- Oriented (OO) as M$ has claimed. OS/2 users should know. I particularly find win95 difficult to use (I might be from another planet but I do find it awkward). > to get into a shouting match about which is easer to use and those people > who like the Win 95 look and feel can stick with it. I just don't like > the fact that some people feel we should masqurade(?), I feel we should give > the option of looking like 95 but is looking like 95 that big of a deal. That's what X is all about... YOU CHOOSE YOUR FEEL!! May your preference be twm/mwm/fvwm/ and the list continues... X is about flexibility. That's why I only have linux on all my working boxes. :) > I guess my tiff is not with the people working on making X look like 95 but > more with people who compare all operating systems and user interfaces with > Win 95. I got fvwm95 for a moment but turned back to fvwm2 very soon. If you'd ask, I'll say that there really is no advantage the 95-like interface have over conventional fvwm2 (no flames intended). It does, however, proof how "customisable" our OS is over some M$-hype. It may also help newly converted win95 users to feel at home. Just me, Wire ... -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
Why does everyone keep saying that X should look like Win 95. I don't want to get into a shouting match about which is easer to use and those people who like the Win 95 look and feel can stick with it. I just don't like the fact that some people feel we should masqurade(?), I feel we should give the option of looking like 95 but is looking like 95 that big of a deal. I guess my tiff is not with the people working on making X look like 95 but more with people who compare all operating systems and user interfaces with Win 95. Sorry for the rant...I'll be quiet now. On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, W. Joseph Mantle wrote: --snip-- > >Aside: > >Red Hat Linux 4.0 was awarded Best of 1996 by InfoWorld Magazine >in the category of Desktop Operating Systems. In that article >I learned that "Red Hat...includes its own desktop windows with >a Windows 95 look and feel." ^^^ > > >Joe Mantle >University of Illinois > > >-- >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jason KillenQuestion Stupidity Monolith : driven by inner daemons "My thoughts of despair are getting [EMAIL PROTECTED] loud." --Social D. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
> It is possible to build an operating system from software which > is available from ftp/web sites around the world. Typically > one starts with the Linux kernel and adds GNU utilities and > compiler. However, building an functional operating system > from workable parts can be an enormous task for non-experts. > Fortunately, a team of 200 persons from around the world collaborating > via the internet has assembled an working operating system from > these freely available peices and developed a simple installation > procedure. The result is the Debian GNU/Linux operating system. This would be a good paragraph to put in an article, not a press release. Also, while it is possible to build an OS as you describe, the person who would even _consider_ doing so is way out of the target audience of 99% of computer magazines. Let's not shoot over their heads and confuse them. Thanks Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > It is a sort of Press Release whipped-up by the Debian Project Leader. > I really didn't intend to chastise him for this - I am a staunch Debian > advocate. I just wanted to remark that the "press release" was a bit > low-key on attributing the GNU project and Linus for most of Debian. > Seeing as how it looks like this is a release meant for the general > public I deem it only fair that they think of Debian as an > implementation of the GNU project and the Linux Kernel, and not as some > new OS. I would prefer Debian stood on its own merit. Please people, let's not get ridiculous about this. It's called Debian GNU/Linux, which is more than enough credit for GNU. As Linus has said before, the only really essential GNU tool for Linux to exist was gcc. Everything else is available (though usually inferior to the GNU implementation). As for credit for Linus himself, let's not forget it's called "Linux". I believe the press release was a _Debian_ press release. If GNU wants to talk about a GNU system with a Linux kernel being on the space shuttle then they can make a press release. If Linus wants to give his life history and how a project he started is on the space shuttle, then he can make a press release. If you want to see something with lots of information about GNU, Debian, and Linus put all together, then there's a such thing as a joint press release. But really, this is a silly thing to complain about. It's like seeing a netscape press release that doesn't credit Mosaic and complaining. Douglas L Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pobox.com/~douglas -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: > From: David Gaudine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Nor any suggestion that any other Linux distribution may have ever > > existed. It really sounds like the Debian team finished the job and > > made Linux into a useable system. > > The task was not to write the history of Linux, it was to explain a > difficult concept in a short space so that there would be some hope > of explaining it to the public and the press without losing their > attention. _You_only_get_one_page_. One must edit out a whole lot in > this sort of work. I trust other Linux distributions to make their own > press releases. > So we don't get into a situation where every one is just criticizing bruce, I liked the Press Release. that is all it was, a press release. If they want to learn more about Linux, read the Linux Faq, or the info sheet, or the meta faq. Though we can probably have 1 line in each press release about these, that is minor. Shaya -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
Bruce: Who is the target audience of this press release? Persons who've never heard of Linux? I'd suggest that you target persons who use commercial versions of UNIX on expensive workstations at the office, and Windows 95 at home. This person has probably heard of Linux, but has little or no sys-admin experience and is intimidated by the thought of installing and maintaining a UNIX-like system on his home computer. A secondary target person is one using a commercial distribution of Linux. I would consider it good if a person who has never heard of Debian, Linux, or GNU makes the following link: ln -sf 'free yet powerful operating system' Linux after reading a Debian press release. Yet a person who already knows lr--r--r-- 1 brain jim 25 May 3 Linux -> free yet powerful OS should make the following link: ln -sf 'free yet simple implementation of Linux' 'Debian GNU/Linux' after reading a Debian press release. May I suggest something like this for press releases: It is possible to build an operating system from software which is available from ftp/web sites around the world. Typically one starts with the Linux kernel and adds GNU utilities and compiler. However, building an functional operating system from workable parts can be an enormous task for non-experts. Fortunately, a team of 200 persons from around the world collaborating via the internet has assembled an working operating system from these freely available peices and developed a simple installation procedure. The result is the Debian GNU/Linux operating system. Aside: Red Hat Linux 4.0 was awarded Best of 1996 by InfoWorld Magazine in the category of Desktop Operating Systems. In that article I learned that "Red Hat...includes its own desktop windows with a Windows 95 look and feel." ^^^ Joe Mantle University of Illinois -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
It does say debian (GNU/Linux...is that ok Mr. Stallman??) is going to space so you do have to expect the guys from debian, as any normal human, to talk about themselves more and just mention Linus. Basically I don't see any wrong doing, therefore no reason to point fingers and yell, but it would be nice to see Linus get some media attention. All and all, as I have said before, it dosen't really matter whos name is on it as long as it says Linux. We are working together and because of that some of us will get talked about at times and others at other times. We are brothers! World domination fast! Just my 2 cents. On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, David Gaudine wrote: > > >On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Jonas Bofjall wrote: > >> On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: >> >> > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see >> > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a >> >> Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... > >Nor any suggestion that any other Linux distribution may have ever >existed. It really sounds like the Debian team finished the job and >made Linux into a useable system. > >[relevant part of Bruce's quote brought back in] >> A Finnish college student started Linux in the early >> 1990's, and was joined by others on the Internet who helped develop >> the system. We united Linux with free software contributed by other >> volunteers to make a complete system of 800 software packages. > > >-- >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jason KillenQuestion Stupidity Monolith : driven by inner daemons "My thoughts of despair are getting [EMAIL PROTECTED] loud." --Social D. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
> Seeing as how it looks like this is a release meant for the general > public I deem it only fair that they think of Debian as an > implementation of the GNU project and the Linux Kernel, and not as some > new OS. I would prefer Debian stood on its own merit. I assumed that the public who would be reading this had not heard of Linux or FSF before, and just didn't care about attribution. The news is that there is a free operating system being used for serious work. The rest of the details are boring, and would probably just be cut out by anyone who edited the press release into their publication. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
From: Yoav Cohen-Sivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Very true! The article, IMHO, should have stated that the Debian > project was a group of volunteers working hard to bring together the > hard work of others, and not make it look like Debian is some new OS > written by the Debian project, with nary a reminder of Stallman, GNU, or > some anonymous "young Finnish college student". I did point out that we were using the work of others. This was a press release for Debian. If someone ever writes the history of Linux, they can point out all of the contributors. I want to make sure you all know that the publications that print this will _cut_out_ material. We may be cut down to one paragraph by many publications. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
From: Jonas Bofjall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... I wasn't writing the credits for Linux. I had 65 lines in which to write a press release, and I went to 72. One must be brief in these things, otherwise nobody reads them. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
From: David Gaudine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Nor any suggestion that any other Linux distribution may have ever > existed. It really sounds like the Debian team finished the job and > made Linux into a useable system. The task was not to write the history of Linux, it was to explain a difficult concept in a short space so that there would be some hope of explaining it to the public and the press without losing their attention. _You_only_get_one_page_. One must edit out a whole lot in this sort of work. I trust other Linux distributions to make their own press releases. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
> It saddened me to see no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is > more than just a "Finnish college student" (in fact, he isn't one > anymore) and I believe he should have been given more credit, at least > his name should have appeared in the press release. No harm intended > Bruce, but Linus' contribution is just as big as yours... Naaah :-) I added Linus' name to the release. I hope someone doesn't come after me to add Richard Stallman's name too, and about 100 other people. The release is 72 lines long, and the press and public have a very limited attention span. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
Robert Nicholson wrote: > > I haven't read the article but perhaos the article is talking about the > differences b/w the the debian and other distributions? If that's the case > then the debian developers surely deserve most of the credit. > It is a sort of Press Release whipped-up by the Debian Project Leader. I really didn't intend to chastise him for this - I am a staunch Debian advocate. I just wanted to remark that the "press release" was a bit low-key on attributing the GNU project and Linus for most of Debian. Seeing as how it looks like this is a release meant for the general public I deem it only fair that they think of Debian as an implementation of the GNU project and the Linux Kernel, and not as some new OS. I would prefer Debian stood on its own merit. Yoav > On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > > > Jonas Bofjall wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > > > > > > > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see > > > > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a > > > > > > Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... > > > > > > // Jonas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2:201/262.37] > > > > Very true! The article, IMHO, should have stated that the Debian > > project was a group of volunteers working hard to bring together the > > hard work of others, and not make it look like Debian is some new OS > > written by the Debian project, with nary a reminder of Stallman, GNU, or > > some anonymous "young Finnish college student". > > > > Yoav > > > > > > -- > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
I haven't read the article but perhaos the article is talking about the differences b/w the the debian and other distributions? If that's the case then the debian developers surely deserve most of the credit. On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > Jonas Bofjall wrote: > > > > On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > > > > > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see > > > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a > > > > Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... > > > > // Jonas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2:201/262.37] > > Very true! The article, IMHO, should have stated that the Debian > project was a group of volunteers working hard to bring together the > hard work of others, and not make it look like Debian is some new OS > written by the Debian project, with nary a reminder of Stallman, GNU, or > some anonymous "young Finnish college student". > > Yoav > > > -- > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
Jonas Bofjall wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > > > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see > > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a > > Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... > > // Jonas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2:201/262.37] Very true! The article, IMHO, should have stated that the Debian project was a group of volunteers working hard to bring together the hard work of others, and not make it look like Debian is some new OS written by the Debian project, with nary a reminder of Stallman, GNU, or some anonymous "young Finnish college student". Yoav -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Jonas Bofjall wrote: > On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > > > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see > > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a > > Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... Nor any suggestion that any other Linux distribution may have ever existed. It really sounds like the Debian team finished the job and made Linux into a useable system. [relevant part of Bruce's quote brought back in] > A Finnish college student started Linux in the early > 1990's, and was joined by others on the Internet who helped develop > the system. We united Linux with free software contributed by other > volunteers to make a complete system of 800 software packages. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see > no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a Neither of Richard Stallman or the GNU team... // Jonas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2:201/262.37] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on the shuttle
First and foremost - great going guys! But... It saddened me to see no mention of Linus' name in the article. He is more than just a "Finnish college student" (in fact, he isn't one anymore) and I believe he should have been given more credit, at least his name should have appeared in the press release. No harm intended Bruce, but Linus' contribution is just as big as yours... Yoav -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
