Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-07 Thread Steve Litt
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 14:10:11 + (UTC)
Curt  wrote:

> On 2014-08-07, Steve Litt  wrote:
> >
> > Alright, by all means, let me rephrase:
> >
> > My computer always breaks immediately after I hover Claws-Mail's
> > message list.
> >
> 
> What are you, a helicopter?  Stop hovering!

The way I keep discovering
is to keep on keeping on hovering!

Whup whup whup whup :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-07 Thread Curt
On 2014-08-07, Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> Alright, by all means, let me rephrase:
>
> My computer always breaks immediately after I hover Claws-Mail's message list.
>

What are you, a helicopter?  Stop hovering!


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-07 Thread Steve Litt
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 09:38:26 + (UTC)
Curt  wrote:

> On 2014-08-06, Steve Litt  wrote:
> >
> > In other words (laugh away, guys and gals), Claws-Mail's message
> > list breaks my computer.
> >
> 
> *Post hoc ergo propter hoc* (a common logical fallacy when
> troubleshooting).

Alright, by all means, let me rephrase:

My computer always breaks immediately after I hover Claws-Mail's message list.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 11:22:57 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Steve Litt
>  wrote:
> > [...]
> > It's not intermittent anymore. I can reproduce it at will. I can log
> > out and rerun X, and do almost anything, including change screen
> > resolution, and this symptom will not appear until I run claws-mail
> > and cursor over a message in the message list. Once I do that, the
> > symptom appears on [most|all] GUI programs, until I leave X and
> > return. Interestingly, I can run Claws-Mail and cursor over buttons
> > with popups, and the symptom doesn't appear until I've cursored
> > over a message in the message list.
> >
> > [...]
> > Joel Rees, if you're using Claws-Mail, you should view it as a
> > suspect.
> 
> I use Sylpheed for some things, Google's webmail for the list. (Lazy,
> yes.)

Joel, if this fits in with the way you do business, do me this favor:
Log out of and restart X, and for a day or two never use Sylpheed, and
see if you still get the disappearing mouse cursor.

> 
> But I think the real bug is not in Claws, although hand-installing the
> latest version of Claws may help. Be interested in what you hear from
> them.
> 
> X11 should limit the amount of damage an application can do to the
> pointer, and that's what I was focusing on.
> 

As true as that is, once we have a dead bang 100% effective
reproduction sequence, I can go to the X guys and tell them "run this
program and watch that happen", and they can't call me a crank or close
it with "couldn't reproduce symptom". This is why I want to see if it's
Sylpheed that's doing it to you.

Thahnks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-06 Thread Joel Rees
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> [...]
> It's not intermittent anymore. I can reproduce it at will. I can log
> out and rerun X, and do almost anything, including change screen
> resolution, and this symptom will not appear until I run claws-mail and
> cursor over a message in the message list. Once I do that, the symptom
> appears on [most|all] GUI programs, until I leave X and return.
> Interestingly, I can run Claws-Mail and cursor over buttons with
> popups, and the symptom doesn't appear until I've cursored over a
> message in the message list.
>
> [...]
> Joel Rees, if you're using Claws-Mail, you should view it as a suspect.

I use Sylpheed for some things, Google's webmail for the list. (Lazy, yes.)

But I think the real bug is not in Claws, although hand-installing the
latest version of Claws may help. Be interested in what you hear from
them.

X11 should limit the amount of damage an application can do to the
pointer, and that's what I was focusing on.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 09:51:19 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> I've googled this several times, but none of what I saw worked or
> seemed relevant. The following seemed the most relevant, but turned
> out not to be helpful:
> 
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=137080
> 
> I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect Openbox's
> version, but I installed it normally with apt-get). I'm *not*
> running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer disappears when the
> mouse pointer comes to rest on anything with popup text, which is very
> obstructive (if you've ever worked on a computer that does this, you
> know what I mean).
> 
> Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes after
> starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen in Xfce, but
> I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure. It appears not to
> happen with another user (I made user test), but once again, I didn't
> test user test for hours. I even copied all files from /home/slitt
> to /home/test, and the symptom didn't appear, and then when I went
> back to /home/test the symptom disappeared, for at least a few
> minutes.
> 
> I suspect, for not much of a reason, that the symptom is triggered
> when the screen changes, either because it times out and goes blank,
> or because I ran a Youtube movie full screen. Due to the time it
> takes to close everything, log out, run startx, and try again, this
> intermittent has been slow to investigate.

It's not intermittent anymore. I can reproduce it at will. I can log
out and rerun X, and do almost anything, including change screen
resolution, and this symptom will not appear until I run claws-mail and
cursor over a message in the message list. Once I do that, the symptom
appears on [most|all] GUI programs, until I leave X and return.
Interestingly, I can run Claws-Mail and cursor over buttons with
popups, and the symptom doesn't appear until I've cursored over a
message in the message list. 

In other words (laugh away, guys and gals), Claws-Mail's message list
breaks my computer.

Obviously I'll be submitting this to the Claws-Mail list, just in
case this is a known problem. However, it will probably garner me
nothing but jeers and statements that I'm using an old version of
Claws-Mail (3.8.1).

My apt-fu isn't all that good, so if any of you knows a way that,
within the packaging system, I can install a later version of
Claws-Mail without in any way disturbing my very nice Wheezy/stable
installation, please let me know. Otherwise, it's ./configure;make;make
install for me :-)

If that doesn't work, well, I've always wanted to byte the bullet and
start using mutt.

Joel Rees, if you're using Claws-Mail, you should view it as a suspect.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 07:47:52 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Steve Litt
>  wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 22:58:18 +0900
> > Joel Rees  wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Steve Litt
> >>  wrote:

[clip Litt's bona-fides on RTFM]

> >> >
> >> > I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect
> >> > Openbox's version, but I installed it normally with apt-get).
> >> > I'm *not* running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer
> >> > disappears when the mouse pointer comes to rest on anything with
> >> > popup text, which is very obstructive (if you've ever worked on
> >> > a computer that does this, you know what I mean).
> >> >
> >> > Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes
> >> > after starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen
> >> > in Xfce, but I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure.
> >>
> >> Happens with my XFCE. (Wheezy.)
> >>

[clip symptom description details]

> >>
> >> This isn't even intermittent. X11 is trying to do too much, that's
> >> all. That means it doesn't have time to keep the pointer updated.
> >
> > This is good information, Joel. Thanks for confirming it isn't
> > Openbox only!
> >
> > So my next question is this: How have you reduced your X11 task
> > load to eliminate the symptom? And how would one look at the
> > relative weight of tasks X11 is doing?
> 
> I haven't bothered. I just move the mouse away and wait a few seconds
> for the pointer to come back. Maybe in your case you're getting worse
> then a few seconds delay?
> 
> If my guess (It is a guess, I guess.) is correct, reducing the load on
> X is going to require deep diving in the code. The guess is based on

[clip some of Joel's suspicions and Litt's speculations]

> 
> Just a question, is /tmp done in ram on your machine or on disk?
> 

slitt@mydesq2:~$ mount | grep "on /tmp"
/dev/sdc7 on /tmp type ext4 (rw,relatime,user_xattr,barrier=1,data=ordered) 
slitt@mydesq2:~$

/dev/sdc is a Western Digital Black, I think about a gigabyte. I forgot
the command to tell me exactly.

Now I have a question for you, and it just might be more relevant than
it appears: Do you use claws-mail as your email client? What email
client do you use? I couldn't find an X-mailer in your headers. I'll
describe why this question is relevant in another post.

Thanks for your help.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-05 Thread Joel Rees
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 22:58:18 +0900
> Joel Rees  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Steve Litt
>>  wrote:
>> > I've googled this several times, but none of what I saw worked or
>> > seemed relevant. The following seemed the most relevant, but turned
>> > out not to be helpful:
>> >
>> > https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=137080
>> >
>> > I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect Openbox's
>> > version, but I installed it normally with apt-get). I'm *not*
>> > running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer disappears when the
>> > mouse pointer comes to rest on anything with popup text, which is
>> > very obstructive (if you've ever worked on a computer that does
>> > this, you know what I mean).
>> >
>> > Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes after
>> > starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen in Xfce,
>> > but I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure.
>>
>> Happens with my XFCE. (Wheezy.)
>>
>> > It appears not to
>> > happen with another user (I made user test), but once again, I
>> > didn't test user test for hours. I even copied all files
>> > from /home/slitt to /home/test, and the symptom didn't appear, and
>> > then when I went back to /home/test the symptom disappeared, for at
>> > least a few minutes.
>> >
>> > I suspect, for not much of a reason, that the symptom is triggered
>> > when the screen changes, either because it times out and goes
>> > blank, or because I ran a Youtube movie full screen. Due to the
>> > time it takes to close everything, log out, run startx, and try
>> > again, this intermittent has been slow to investigate.
>> >
>> > Intermittents are slow to solve because diagnostic tests are
>> > inconclusive. Eventually I'll nail this thing, but if any of you has
>> > had experience with this problem and remembers the solution, you
>> > could cut a lot of time off my investigation.
>>
>> This isn't even intermittent. X11 is trying to do too much, that's
>> all. That means it doesn't have time to keep the pointer updated.
>
> This is good information, Joel. Thanks for confirming it isn't Openbox
> only!
>
> So my next question is this: How have you reduced your X11 task
> load to eliminate the symptom? And how would one look at the relative
> weight of tasks X11 is doing?

I haven't bothered. I just move the mouse away and wait a few seconds
for the pointer to come back. Maybe in your case you're getting worse
then a few seconds delay?

If my guess (It is a guess, I guess.) is correct, reducing the load on
X is going to require deep diving in the code. The guess is based on
watching what is happening on the screen when the pointer disappears,
and I'm pretty sure it's not the kind of thing they'd be putting in a
script or a list of tasks to feed a script. It reminds me of things
that happened on a (classic) Mac when too many inits were trying to
horn in on the various hooks to cursor events. Or when a Mac init
developer hadn't recognized the need to keep (effective) interrupt
time code clean, determinant, and short.

> By the way, according to htop, my X11 is using 0% CPU, 0.5% memory, and
> is invoked as follows:
>
> 
> /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp :0 -auth /tmp/serverauth.Lo8khjMuIc
> 
>
> Does anything in the preceding look wrong? Should X be listening on
> tcp? Any other obvious problems?

Not particularly.

Just a question, is /tmp done in ram on your machine or on disk?

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-05 Thread Steve Litt
On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 22:58:18 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Steve Litt
>  wrote:
> > I've googled this several times, but none of what I saw worked or
> > seemed relevant. The following seemed the most relevant, but turned
> > out not to be helpful:
> >
> > https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=137080
> >
> > I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect Openbox's
> > version, but I installed it normally with apt-get). I'm *not*
> > running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer disappears when the
> > mouse pointer comes to rest on anything with popup text, which is
> > very obstructive (if you've ever worked on a computer that does
> > this, you know what I mean).
> >
> > Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes after
> > starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen in Xfce,
> > but I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure.
> 
> Happens with my XFCE. (Wheezy.)
> 
> > It appears not to
> > happen with another user (I made user test), but once again, I
> > didn't test user test for hours. I even copied all files
> > from /home/slitt to /home/test, and the symptom didn't appear, and
> > then when I went back to /home/test the symptom disappeared, for at
> > least a few minutes.
> >
> > I suspect, for not much of a reason, that the symptom is triggered
> > when the screen changes, either because it times out and goes
> > blank, or because I ran a Youtube movie full screen. Due to the
> > time it takes to close everything, log out, run startx, and try
> > again, this intermittent has been slow to investigate.
> >
> > Intermittents are slow to solve because diagnostic tests are
> > inconclusive. Eventually I'll nail this thing, but if any of you has
> > had experience with this problem and remembers the solution, you
> > could cut a lot of time off my investigation.
> 
> This isn't even intermittent. X11 is trying to do too much, that's
> all. That means it doesn't have time to keep the pointer updated.

This is good information, Joel. Thanks for confirming it isn't Openbox
only!

So my next question is this: How have you reduced your X11 task
load to eliminate the symptom? And how would one look at the relative
weight of tasks X11 is doing?

By the way, according to htop, my X11 is using 0% CPU, 0.5% memory, and
is invoked as follows:


/usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp :0 -auth /tmp/serverauth.Lo8khjMuIc


Does anything in the preceding look wrong? Should X be listening on
tcp? Any other obvious problems?

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-05 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> I've googled this several times, but none of what I saw worked or
> seemed relevant. The following seemed the most relevant, but turned out
> not to be helpful:
>
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=137080
>
> I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect Openbox's
> version, but I installed it normally with apt-get). I'm *not*
> running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer disappears when the mouse
> pointer comes to rest on anything with popup text, which is very
> obstructive (if you've ever worked on a computer that does this, you
> know what I mean).
>
> Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes after
> starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen in Xfce, but
> I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure.

Happens with my XFCE. (Wheezy.)

> It appears not to
> happen with another user (I made user test), but once again, I didn't
> test user test for hours. I even copied all files from /home/slitt
> to /home/test, and the symptom didn't appear, and then when I went back
> to /home/test the symptom disappeared, for at least a few minutes.
>
> I suspect, for not much of a reason, that the symptom is triggered when
> the screen changes, either because it times out and goes blank, or
> because I ran a Youtube movie full screen. Due to the time it takes to
> close everything, log out, run startx, and try again, this intermittent
> has been slow to investigate.
>
> Intermittents are slow to solve because diagnostic tests are
> inconclusive. Eventually I'll nail this thing, but if any of you has
> had experience with this problem and remembers the solution, you could
> cut a lot of time off my investigation.

This isn't even intermittent. X11 is trying to do too much, that's
all. That means it doesn't have time to keep the pointer updated.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.


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How to fix intermittently disappearing mouse pointer ?

2014-08-05 Thread Steve Litt
I've googled this several times, but none of what I saw worked or
seemed relevant. The following seemed the most relevant, but turned out
not to be helpful:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=137080

I have Wheezy running Openbox (I'm not sure how to detect Openbox's
version, but I installed it normally with apt-get). I'm *not*
running unclutter. Sometimes, my mouse pointer disappears when the mouse
pointer comes to rest on anything with popup text, which is very
obstructive (if you've ever worked on a computer that does this, you
know what I mean).

Often, this symptom doesn't happen for the first few minutes after
starting X, but then later does. It appears not to happen in Xfce, but
I didn't test Xfce for hours, so I can't be sure. It appears not to
happen with another user (I made user test), but once again, I didn't
test user test for hours. I even copied all files from /home/slitt
to /home/test, and the symptom didn't appear, and then when I went back
to /home/test the symptom disappeared, for at least a few minutes.

I suspect, for not much of a reason, that the symptom is triggered when
the screen changes, either because it times out and goes blank, or
because I ran a Youtube movie full screen. Due to the time it takes to
close everything, log out, run startx, and try again, this intermittent
has been slow to investigate.

Intermittents are slow to solve because diagnostic tests are
inconclusive. Eventually I'll nail this thing, but if any of you has
had experience with this problem and remembers the solution, you could
cut a lot of time off my investigation.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


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Re: Disappearing mouse

2010-09-10 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2010-09-04 at 00:21 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2010, John A. Sullivan III wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone experienced this in Debian? Is there a definitive cause and,
> > more importantly, a real solution? Thanks - John
> 
> I had this with an NVidia chipset (don't recall the exact chipset right 
> now).
> 
> I had to add a SWCursor option to prevent cursor going invisible from time 
> to time under Lenny.  Once it went invisible the X server would need to be 
> restarted to recover it.  The cursor was just invisible - it always worked 
> perfectly if only you could guess where it was.
> 
> This is an example from xorg.conf:
> 
> Section "Device"
>  Identifier  "Configured Video Device"
>  Driver "Vesa"
>  Option "SWCursor" "yes"
> EndSection

Alas, this did not work even after rebooting the computer.  We still
have users losing their mouse several times each day and you can imagine
the upset that is causing.  These are virtual desktops delivered via
X2Go (www.x2go.org) so their workaround is to suspend their session,
close the X2Go client and reconnect but it is still a major
inconvenience.  It seems particularly provoked by rdesktop.

We also tried doing Alt-Ctl-D as suggested in another post about this
problem but that did not recover the mouse either.  Ideally, we want to
prevent it from disappearing in the first place as we had hoped this
proposed solution would do.

Has anyone else experienced this? How did you fix it? Thanks - John


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Re: Disappearing mouse

2010-09-04 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2010-09-04 at 00:21 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2010, John A. Sullivan III wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone experienced this in Debian? Is there a definitive cause and,
> > more importantly, a real solution? Thanks - John
> 
> I had this with an NVidia chipset (don't recall the exact chipset right 
> now).
> 
> I had to add a SWCursor option to prevent cursor going invisible from time 
> to time under Lenny.  Once it went invisible the X server would need to be 
> restarted to recover it.  The cursor was just invisible - it always worked 
> perfectly if only you could guess where it was.
> 
> This is an example from xorg.conf:
> 
> Section "Device"
>  Identifier  "Configured Video Device"
>  Driver "Vesa"
>  Option "SWCursor" "yes"
> EndSection

Thanks, I'll give that a try although I'm a bit concerned about the
performance overhead since this is a VServer guest and we expect
hundreds of them on the same large VServer host - John


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Re: Disappearing mouse

2010-09-03 Thread Robert Brockway

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010, John A. Sullivan III wrote:


Has anyone experienced this in Debian? Is there a definitive cause and,
more importantly, a real solution? Thanks - John


I had this with an NVidia chipset (don't recall the exact chipset right 
now).


I had to add a SWCursor option to prevent cursor going invisible from time 
to time under Lenny.  Once it went invisible the X server would need to be 
restarted to recover it.  The cursor was just invisible - it always worked 
perfectly if only you could guess where it was.


This is an example from xorg.conf:

Section "Device"
Identifier  "Configured Video Device"
Driver "Vesa"
Option "SWCursor" "yes"
EndSection

Cheers,

Rob

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Archive: 
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Re: Now you see it, now you don't--the tale of the disappearing mouse...

2005-06-30 Thread Kent West
Nicholas Syrotiuk wrote:

> I first began using Linux in January 2005 by installing Debian
> "sarge."  I was a very happy user until I upgraded my system on 4
> June, just a couple of days before 3.1 was released.
>
> Since then I have had one major problem: I can't *see* the mouse at
> all when I use "rdesktop."  When I move the mouse on *my* desktop, it
> disappears when it touches the edge of the "rdesktop" window and then
> magically re-appears when it leaves the window on the opposite side. 
> I have seen the same mouse behaviour in exactly one other package on
> my system: gwenview.  Otherwise, the mouse seems to work correctly.
>
> I don't know what is causing problem.  In an extreme attempt to solve
> the problem, I backed up all of my data and re-installed Debian 3.1r0
> from a new CD image.  Sadly, the problem remains.
>
>
I don't know the solution, but if it were me, I'd experiment by changing
the video driver, and/or depth, and/or resolution, to see if those had
any affect.

I also have some vague memory of a possible option you can put in
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 that might affect how the mouse displays, but it's
just a vague memory, and a quick look at "man XF86Config-4" didn't help
refresh my memory, so don't spend too much time on this idea; my mind
might be making things up.

-- 
Kent


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Now you see it, now you don't--the tale of the disappearing mouse...

2005-06-30 Thread Nicholas Syrotiuk
I first began using Linux in January 2005 by installing Debian "sarge." 
 I was a very happy user until I upgraded my system on 4 June, just a 
couple of days before 3.1 was released.


Since then I have had one major problem: I can't *see* the mouse at all 
when I use "rdesktop."  When I move the mouse on *my* desktop, it 
disappears when it touches the edge of the "rdesktop" window and then 
magically re-appears when it leaves the window on the opposite side.  I 
have seen the same mouse behaviour in exactly one other package on my 
system: gwenview.  Otherwise, the mouse seems to work correctly.


I don't know what is causing problem.  In an extreme attempt to solve 
the problem, I backed up all of my data and re-installed Debian 3.1r0 
from a new CD image.  Sadly, the problem remains.



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