Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
I haven't read this entire thread, so I'm jumping into the middle. John Hasler gave you excellent advice when he suggested creating your own web site (or a web site on some other social media type network) that has less aggressive privacy policies. Then in response to your concern: But this data will invariably be intertwined with personal information. Being a mom and pop shop there's bound to be stuff we want to put up but I don't want facebook to own. On facebook, create an account just for the business (separate from a personal account that you might also have). On that business account, don't put any information that you consider proprietary just advertise (in the best way you can) the other site where they can find the information that you are (apparently) worried about losing control of. Randy Kramer On Thursday 09 February 2012 08:42:23 pm Nick Lidakis wrote: On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 09:56:10AM +, Jon Dowland wrote: On 05/02/12 00:09, Nick Lidakis wrote: But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? Facebook's privacy concerns only apply to whatever data you give them. Set up an account and only supply business-data: promotions etc., stuff for which exposure is a *good* thing rather than bad. But this data will invariably be intertwined with personal information. Being a mom and pop shop there's bound to be stuff we want to put up but I don't want facebook to own. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201202110907.18305.rhkra...@gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 09:56:10AM +, Jon Dowland wrote: On 05/02/12 00:09, Nick Lidakis wrote: But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? Facebook's privacy concerns only apply to whatever data you give them. Set up an account and only supply business-data: promotions etc., stuff for which exposure is a *good* thing rather than bad. But this data will invariably be intertwined with personal information. Being a mom and pop shop there's bound to be stuff we want to put up but I don't want facebook to own. Trust me. In your own small business, you won't have time for Farcebook and you have no need for it. You will have far more productive things to do with your time. Successful business was a reality a long time before Facebook came along. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/b736b5fd21549878130d50da30eabb5e.squir...@fulvetta.riseup.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 10:51:43AM +1100, Alex Hutton wrote: The thing of facebook is people login to facebook and regularly view their activity feed. So if you are posting to facebook you are appearing in the activity feeds of people who have 'liked' your page. People can also message you through facebook and this can be a channel for customer support. You use a facebook app to have an RSS feed (eg from your website/blog) appear in your activity feed. This way you don't actually have to use Facebook, per se, you only have to setup the page and the RSS importation. You can also, I believe, setup email forwarding so that when people message you through facebook it appears on your email. Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? I did find out about and someone else mentioned about Diaspora. It's considered decentralized social networking. But can I use some other software to let people know about specials, events, etc., without using things like facebook. There's gotta be some kinda Android or Apple app that lets foodies stay updated with their favorite foodie shops. Maybe an RSS app for foodies. As I said before, LinkedIn is the only network I would bother with. Somebody misconstrued that as my suggesting that it was a source of work. This is not the case. It keeps you in touch with what's happening in the industry - conventions, new ways of thinking, what's happening in the market, that sort of thing. That's where it's value lies. I have tried Diaspora and the concept - decentralisation, etc., is excellent, but the stability I have found is Alpha at best. Not really a trade orientated environment - more of the Twitter crowd with more than a 140 character allocation. You'll need all your time for your production and customers. Regards, Weaver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210015545.GB29853@phobos -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/fbfc4d206499876269b2e5f006a4d822.squir...@fulvetta.riseup.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Nick Lidakis writes: Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? Why not just set up a Web site for your business? Then if you find that you absolutely _must_ be on FaceBook set up a FaceBook account that contains little more than a link to your Web site. Much better! A web presence is a must. Even just a minimal one. Print off your own leaflets and drop them into each bag of product letting people know that the site will feature announcements of new products and giveaways, etc. That way you're putting your market in touch with you. Include a comments section. A basic blog set up would do it. Wordpress or similar. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/eb22ee9799aa073b6c32f2e74fe1af04.squir...@fulvetta.riseup.net
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.netwrote: Nick Lidakis wrote: Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? I did find out about and someone else mentioned about Diaspora. It's considered decentralized social networking. But can I use some other software to let people know about specials, events, etc., without using things like facebook. There's gotta be some kinda Android or Apple app that lets foodies stay updated with their favorite foodie shops. Maybe an RSS app for foodies. Jeez, man. You're trying to build a business. It's about figuring out where your audience is. If they're on FaceBook, market on FaceBook. If they're on Twitter, market there. If there's on some Android or iPhone app, market there TOO. It's not about the software or the service, it's about where your market is. ^ This. If you're not using Facebook and Twitter, you can publish whatever you want, and none of your customers will see it. I've been following this thread for days and I can't believe the responses you're getting. While I'm sure your intent is noble, avoiding Facebook and Twitter to promote your business is beyond foolish. Think of it this way. Your shop is in Manhattan, KS. Would you pay for a billboard in Timbuktu, Mali, Africa to advertise it? -- Chris
[OT]Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Weaver wrote: Nick Lidakis writes: Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? Why not just set up a Web site for your business? Then if you find that you absolutely _must_ be on FaceBook set up a FaceBook account that contains little more than a link to your Web site. Much better! A web presence is a must. Even just a minimal one. For sure - people need to find your phone number and your address when they google for it. But really, this is a pretty idiotic discussion. Instead of talking to techies, you should be out talking to people who are already running coffee shops - ask THEM the degree to which they use any social media tools to promote themselves, and which ones make a significant difference. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f3522e1.8000...@meetinghouse.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 09:56:10AM +, Jon Dowland wrote: On 05/02/12 00:09, Nick Lidakis wrote: But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? Facebook's privacy concerns only apply to whatever data you give them. Set up an account and only supply business-data: promotions etc., stuff for which exposure is a *good* thing rather than bad. But this data will invariably be intertwined with personal information. Being a mom and pop shop there's bound to be stuff we want to put up but I don't want facebook to own. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210014223.GA29853@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 10:51:43AM +1100, Alex Hutton wrote: The thing of facebook is people login to facebook and regularly view their activity feed. So if you are posting to facebook you are appearing in the activity feeds of people who have 'liked' your page. People can also message you through facebook and this can be a channel for customer support. You use a facebook app to have an RSS feed (eg from your website/blog) appear in your activity feed. This way you don't actually have to use Facebook, per se, you only have to setup the page and the RSS importation. You can also, I believe, setup email forwarding so that when people message you through facebook it appears on your email. Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? I did find out about and someone else mentioned about Diaspora. It's considered decentralized social networking. But can I use some other software to let people know about specials, events, etc., without using things like facebook. There's gotta be some kinda Android or Apple app that lets foodies stay updated with their favorite foodie shops. Maybe an RSS app for foodies. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210015545.GB29853@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 12:59:09AM -0300, Carlo Borelli wrote: 2012/2/4 Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt Hi, It is kinda off-topic (i'd OT it), and being picky it's GNU/Linux Debian, not GNU/Debian Linux. Being extra picky i'd ask where is Manhattan, :) This topic is absolutely OT and need to be marked OT I'm looking for specific FOSS tools that will let me do facebook-ish things without using facebook. I forgot to mark it OT but it's not too OT for Debian when what I'm looking for could be in the Debian repository. So far, I'm looking into Diaspora and RSS. Perhaps I can keep it simple and tell people they can find out about new single origin coffees, new pastries, special breads and new small plates via RSS. I don't have a smartphone so I'll gave to borrow one and see how easy or clunky something with RSS would be. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210020053.GC29853@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 12:30:05PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: Hi Nick. You may wish to contact David J Patrick who founded LinuxCaffe (http://www.linuxcaffe.ca) in Toronto, Canada many years ago. LinuxCaffe is a successful business providing coffee light food running completely on Linux/FOSS. I assisted David with some of the early sysadmin/architectural work for LinuxCaffe. Thanks. I'll look into it. I have to say that a small business should not pass up any legal, ethically sound advertising option. Starting a successful small business is hard enough as it is. My personal opinion is to use Facebook and Twitter as tools to deliver your message. I'd recommend using alternatives such as identi.ca *as well*. I've never heard about identi.ca. I'll look into it. Regarding privacy, you should only post only as much info as you are happy to provide. It is true that data mining techniques can infer things about you from what you 'like' and even what your friends 'like' but a company facebook page wouldn't be used in the same way as a personal page so I don't see there would be a lot of data to mine. Using centralized, proprietary social media just doesn't sit well with me. What if, for some particular event or special, I *have* to give out more info than I'm comfortable with? Then I'm worse off in the long run. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210020825.GD29853@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 06:35:27AM +0300, Stayvoid wrote: Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook... Please don't use Facebook. http://stallman.org/facebook.html Yes. I'm well aware of this and most of Stallman's philosophies. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. Please don't use this term. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.en.html That's why I put it in quotes; I don't agree with that term or idea either. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210021200.GE29853@phobos
[OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Nick Lidakis wrote: Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? I did find out about and someone else mentioned about Diaspora. It's considered decentralized social networking. But can I use some other software to let people know about specials, events, etc., without using things like facebook. There's gotta be some kinda Android or Apple app that lets foodies stay updated with their favorite foodie shops. Maybe an RSS app for foodies. Jeez, man. You're trying to build a business. It's about figuring out where your audience is. If they're on FaceBook, market on FaceBook. If they're on Twitter, market there. If there's on some Android or iPhone app, market there TOO. It's not about the software or the service, it's about where your market is. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f348a6c.2040...@meetinghouse.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Nick Lidakis writes: Are there other tool I can use to avoid using facebook? Why not just set up a Web site for your business? Then if you find that you absolutely _must_ be on FaceBook set up a FaceBook account that contains little more than a link to your Web site. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87bop7e5dx@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 09:00:54PM -0500, Nick Lidakis wrote: On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 12:59:09AM -0300, Carlo Borelli wrote: 2012/2/4 Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt Hi, It is kinda off-topic (i'd OT it), and being picky it's GNU/Linux Debian, not GNU/Debian Linux. Being extra picky i'd ask where is Manhattan, :) This topic is absolutely OT and need to be marked OT I'm looking for specific FOSS tools that will let me do facebook-ish things without using facebook. I forgot to mark it OT but it's not too OT for Debian when what I'm looking for could be in the Debian repository. I think somebody already clued you in to identi.ca or status.net (FOSS, decentralized, federated microblogging. I have my own installation on a debian server at tonybaldwin.me/status, and admin the one at http://free-haven.org/status). But, did you know that Friendica will allow you to cross-post to Facebook (not necessarily all servers install the plugin)? Also, both Friendica and Diaspora will xpost to Tumblr, and you can make Tumblr xpost to Facebook. For my part, I do still have a facebook acct, largely because I have family abroad who mostly communicate via facebook, and other friends who are too [strikethrough]stupid, ignorant[/strikethrough] stubborn to get off the infernal site. But I log in once a day to check for messages, and spend less than 10 minutes on there most days. I post no content directly to facebook. I post photos, blog entries, etc., either to my own site and send links via statusnet - twitter- facebook, or post to tumblr - facebook. This way, only links to my content go to facebook, and they own nothing. Of course, both tumblr and twitter are also centralized, proprietary platforms, too. I could argue that tumblr is less evil. I really have no defense for twitter, but, I don't post directly there, either, just to statusnet, and have my updates forwarded. Facebook can make no claim to my photos or other content, and the amount of information I allow them access to is quite minimal. When I log out after my short sessions, I delete their cookies, too. This way, I am not directly using either twitter or facebook, but my friends and family who insist on using them can still follow me, and we can still communicate. Not the ideal solution (I'd prefer for all my family and friends to be on statusnet or something, since that's my favorite), but it works. You could also use a wordpress installation on your website and have posts automagically forwarded to facebook with a statusnet plugin, or use networked blogs (or I think someone may have mentioned that). ./tony -- http://www.tonybaldwin.me all tony, all the time! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120210051832.ga30...@deathstar.hsd1.ct.comcast.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On 05/02/12 00:09, Nick Lidakis wrote: But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? Facebook's privacy concerns only apply to whatever data you give them. Set up an account and only supply business-data: promotions etc., stuff for which exposure is a *good* thing rather than bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f3246ba@debian.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On 05/02/12 00:09, Nick Lidakis wrote: But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? Facebook's privacy concerns only apply to whatever data you give them. Set up an account and only supply business-data: promotions etc., stuff for which exposure is a *good* thing rather than bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f3246c0.6090...@debian.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On 2012-02-05, Weaver wea...@riseup.net wrote: The difference comes out for those with the eyes and ears to see and hear. You can lead a girl to Vassar but you can't make her think. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjj2fmq.37o.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
John Hasler wrote: Scot writes: Even facts are built on belief. For certain values of belief. For all values of belief, otherwise they could not be facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jgojul$78t$1...@dough.gmane.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Du, 05 feb 12, 12:30:05, Robert Brockway wrote: One of the best pieces of business advice I ever received was this: Don't sell what you like. Sell what people will buy. While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sb, 04 feb 12, 18:26:25, Nick Lidakis wrote: [big snip] Hi Nick, Some issues to be aware of (in no particular order) that I encountered while trying to help my brother with his business: FLOSS is not cost free. You may not need to pay for the licenses, but do you have the spare time to invest in doing your own IT? You can also encounter: - lack of support from various providers (ISP, cash register hardware, etc.) - lack of software packaged for Debian. I am not familiar with US accounting, but as far as I know the only software that might be useful for you (besides Open/Libreoffice) is OpenERP. - every time you need to go outside Debian repositories your maintenance becomes (much) more complicated - software in stable may quickly become outdated for current requirements of social media. For example Iceweasel in stable doesn't work with Google+ (but Chromium does) - others that I forget now and don't have the time to recall I'm not trying to discourage you and also don't know what the state of FLOSS support is where you are, but it is always a good idea to check your assumptions in advance ;) Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:26:25 -0500, Nick Lidakis wrote: I hope this isn't too off topic for this list but smart people lurk about these parts. It is a bit off-topic, indeed :-) In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. (...) Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? (...) Extremes are always bad. I would open a Facebook and Twitter (Google+, MySpace...) accounts for people who uses these means but also think about another users that care about their privacy so I'd open accounts in Identi.ca and DIASPORA*, the open counterparts for Internet socializing. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jglol1$g99$4...@dough.gmane.org
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:20, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: Identi.ca and DIASPORA*, the open counterparts for Internet socializing. Don't know about identi.ca, but disaspora started asking for money even before lauch, did they get to actually leave beta-stage? People who care about their privacy might most likely not care for social networks and be, instead, concerned if the login details of the café's website are sent encrypted or not. -- On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CADqA9ub8Z=qijswq94uamawsvmeo9fbk-ubr3rwhvsx+27u...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 12:13:58 +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:20, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: Identi.ca and DIASPORA*, the open counterparts for Internet socializing. Don't know about identi.ca, but disaspora started asking for money even before lauch, did they get to actually leave beta-stage? And what's make you think open source projects cannot ask for money? I see nothing wrong there. I prefer a company or a project is transparent enough to say, hey, we need $$$ to put this working and ask for it. People who care about their privacy might most likely not care for social networks and be, instead, concerned if the login details of the café's website are sent encrypted or not. There is nothing wrong in using social networking techniques to enhance your business. They're an easy and free way of massively advertizing. Securing the AP has nothing to do with this, you can care in both things: marketing and technical stuff. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jglsj0$g99$8...@dough.gmane.org
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:27, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: And what's make you think open source projects cannot ask for money? I see nothing wrong there. I prefer a company or a project is transparent enough to say, hey, we need $$$ to put this working and ask for it. Diaspora started as a free-for-all, no $$$ attached. Either that or i read them wrong. Happens. That i later got an email saying We love you, please donate was rather sad. I never said it's wrong for open source projects to ask for money. People who care about their privacy might most likely not care for social networks and be, instead, concerned if the login details of the café's website are sent encrypted or not. There is nothing wrong in using social networking techniques to enhance your business. They're an easy and free way of massively advertizing. Securing the AP has nothing to do with this, you can care in both things: marketing and technical stuff. Keyword: might. Also never said social media doesn't make good, cheap advertising. OP oughta focus on intended audience first, then he'll know which means to use. Cheers, Nuno -- On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cadqa9uaasvy+xpz0agf4ucv77fuimvh+-uvz27sjyrk-9-b...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:02:35 +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:27, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: And what's make you think open source projects cannot ask for money? I see nothing wrong there. I prefer a company or a project is transparent enough to say, hey, we need $$$ to put this working and ask for it. Diaspora started as a free-for-all, no $$$ attached. Either that or i read them wrong. Happens. That i later got an email saying We love you, please donate was rather sad. I never said it's wrong for open source projects to ask for money. I can only tell what sources say: Diaspora* was released on November 2010 after they collected 200,000 USD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_%28software%29 I also have seen Wikipedia founder showing on a big banner asking for money from time to time and I have no problem with that. I don't remember Wikipedia started by asking money to their users but now they do because they need it. That's fine. People who care about their privacy might most likely not care for social networks and be, instead, concerned if the login details of the café's website are sent encrypted or not. There is nothing wrong in using social networking techniques to enhance your business. They're an easy and free way of massively advertizing. Securing the AP has nothing to do with this, you can care in both things: marketing and technical stuff. Keyword: might. Also never said social media doesn't make good, cheap advertising. OP oughta focus on intended audience first, then he'll know which means to use. Sure! I also agree that tecnical issues have to have preference over marketing but we are living hard days and everything, every little detail, it counts :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jglvl1$g99$1...@dough.gmane.org
[OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Du, 05 feb 12, 12:30:05, Robert Brockway wrote: One of the best pieces of business advice I ever received was this: Don't sell what you like. Sell what people will buy. While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? Hi Andrei. I don't see the statement as making any reference to belief at all. The intention of the statement, IMHO, is to recommend assessing and understanding the market quite separately from your own preferences when determining what sort of business you intend to start. Questions over whether it is ok to sell a particular product or not are, IMHO, othogonal. Cheers, Rob -- Email: rob...@timetraveller.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Free Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 – 13 December 1250)
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Andrei writes: While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? It isn't hypocrisy to assume that other people know better than you do what is best for them. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/874nv5gxdn@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: [OT] Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sunday 05 February 2012 13:02:35 Nuno Magalhães wrote: OP oughta focus on intended audience first, then he'll know which means to use. +1 I think that the intended (or hoped for) clientele is very significant; as also is the type of business: repeat or new every time. We have a local small cafe (I live in a village) that is as busy as it can cope with on sunny days, and has customers all the time. So I looked to see if I could trace its publicity policy. It has a good location, a lovely friendly staff and honest home made food (snacks, homemade cakes etc. rather than full meals). It appears not to have a website, and a Google search does not bring up a face-book page. It has, however, got an entry in Yell.com. To be honest, I think its customers happen upon it the first time - and then come back because they like the experience. It has, as I said, a good location. But so, the OP says, has he. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201202051526.45520.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On 2012-02-05, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? Who believes in products? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjita8p.473.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 12:25:58PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Sb, 04 feb 12, 18:26:25, Nick Lidakis wrote: [big snip] Hi Nick, Some issues to be aware of (in no particular order) that I encountered while trying to help my brother with his business: FLOSS is not cost free. You may not need to pay for the licenses, but do you have the spare time to invest in doing your own IT? You can also encounter: - lack of support from various providers (ISP, cash register hardware, etc.) There are numerous FOSS POS (point of sale) programs. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=linux+point+of+sale Sadly, I can't find any in Debian repos, but I might not be searching well. (aptitude search point of sale shows nothing. Here are some possibly relevant links: http://viewtouch.com/ http://lemonpos.sourceforge.net/ http://www.cubit.co.za/point-of-sale/ http://www.tuxsoft.co.za/ - lack of software packaged for Debian. I am not familiar with US accounting, but as far as I know the only software that might be useful for you (besides Open/Libreoffice) is OpenERP. Accounting? aptitude install gnucash - every time you need to go outside Debian repositories your maintenance becomes (much) more complicated true tony -- http://www.tonybaldwin.me all tony, all the time! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120205171316.gb5...@deathstar.hsd1.ct.comcast.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Du, 05 feb 12, 12:30:05, Robert Brockway wrote: One of the best pieces of business advice I ever received was this: Don't sell what you like. Sell what people will buy. While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? The dividing line for me, between a salesman and a conman, has always been that one has a substantial product line and the other doesn't. If you have no faith in, or no knowledge of, the product line you're dealing with, essentially it comes to the same thing. The difference comes out for those with the eyes and ears to see and hear. You must assess your market accurately, yes, even before deciding on location, along with your ability to provide what they want, at the price they can afford, but if you don't respect and even love your product you're heading nowhere but the next town. Regards, Weaver -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/d11f402b05e7babe1d101998f90bab17.squir...@fulvetta.riseup.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On 06/02/12 03:06, Curt wrote: On 2012-02-05, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: While it may be good business advice isn't it hypocrisy to sell a product you don't believe in? Who believes in products? Most buyers (I can't account for the motivations of all minorities). Do you buy food just to bin it? :-) In the sense of - sacrifice for, or trade, and pay for download of, you (I assume the best case) bought Debian. Even facts are built on belief. Kind regards -- Iceweasel/Firefox extensions for finding answers to Debian questions:- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections/Scott_Ferguson/debian/ NOTE: new update available for Debian Buttons (New button for querying Debian Developer Package):- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/debian-buttons/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f2a.6060...@gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Scot writes: Even facts are built on belief. For certain values of belief. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87mx8xezmx@thumper.dhh.gt.org
GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
I hope this isn't too off topic for this list but smart people lurk about these parts. In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. Starting on a shoe-string budget during a recession, I plan on using GNU software for as much as I can possibly can without devoting too much time to computing. Music Player Daemon for music, possibly sc for basic spreadsheet needs, m0n0wall firewall for Wi-Fi, etc. Also investigating a Linux payroll system, etc. Wife uses a Mac. I have been using Debian since 1996 for all my daily needs, though I still would not call my self a guru. We do not have any social media presence and we like it that way. No facebook, twitter or other accounts. We use basic cell phones. With that said... Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? P.S. Thinking about social media pisses me off even more because, currently working as a paramedic, I've had co-workers take their phones out while treating patients. And I have yelled at people. These days, seems most people can't go two minutes without sucking on their digital pacifier. Thoughts? Suggestions? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120204232625.GA2610@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Advertise it as a place for people who abhor social media and who love Linux. You will probably attract a higher class of patrons. 8^) On Feb 4, 2012 5:26 PM, Nick Lidakis nlida...@verizon.net wrote: I hope this isn't too off topic for this list but smart people lurk about these parts. In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. Starting on a shoe-string budget during a recession, I plan on using GNU software for as much as I can possibly can without devoting too much time to computing. Music Player Daemon for music, possibly sc for basic spreadsheet needs, m0n0wall firewall for Wi-Fi, etc. Also investigating a Linux payroll system, etc. Wife uses a Mac. I have been using Debian since 1996 for all my daily needs, though I still would not call my self a guru. We do not have any social media presence and we like it that way. No facebook, twitter or other accounts. We use basic cell phones. With that said... Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? P.S. Thinking about social media pisses me off even more because, currently working as a paramedic, I've had co-workers take their phones out while treating patients. And I have yelled at people. These days, seems most people can't go two minutes without sucking on their digital pacifier. Thoughts? Suggestions? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120204232625.GA2610@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
The thing of facebook is people login to facebook and regularly view their activity feed. So if you are posting to facebook you are appearing in the activity feeds of people who have 'liked' your page. People can also message you through facebook and this can be a channel for customer support. You use a facebook app to have an RSS feed (eg from your website/blog) appear in your activity feed. This way you don't actually have to use Facebook, per se, you only have to setup the page and the RSS importation. You can also, I believe, setup email forwarding so that when people message you through facebook it appears on your email. On 5 February 2012 10:26, Nick Lidakis nlida...@verizon.net wrote: I hope this isn't too off topic for this list but smart people lurk about these parts. In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. Starting on a shoe-string budget during a recession, I plan on using GNU software for as much as I can possibly can without devoting too much time to computing. Music Player Daemon for music, possibly sc for basic spreadsheet needs, m0n0wall firewall for Wi-Fi, etc. Also investigating a Linux payroll system, etc. Wife uses a Mac. I have been using Debian since 1996 for all my daily needs, though I still would not call my self a guru. We do not have any social media presence and we like it that way. No facebook, twitter or other accounts. We use basic cell phones. With that said... Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? P.S. Thinking about social media pisses me off even more because, currently working as a paramedic, I've had co-workers take their phones out while treating patients. And I have yelled at people. These days, seems most people can't go two minutes without sucking on their digital pacifier. Thoughts? Suggestions? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120204232625.GA2610@phobos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAAvq_=fshx2pucmb4ebv1tbfqvebf52mor6w4zs_v7-+s7e...@mail.gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 10:51:43AM +1100, Alex Hutton wrote: The thing of facebook is people login to facebook and regularly view their activity feed. So if you are posting to facebook you are appearing in the activity feeds of people who have 'liked' your page. People can also message you through facebook and this can be a channel for customer support. You use a facebook app to have an RSS feed (eg from your website/blog) appear in your activity feed. This way you don't actually have to use Facebook, per se, you only have to setup the page and the RSS importation. You can also, I believe, setup email forwarding so that when people message you through facebook it appears on your email. But using this facebook app I would still need to create a facebook account, yes? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120205000916.GC2610@phobos
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Hi, It is kinda off-topic (i'd OT it), and being picky it's GNU/Linux Debian, not GNU/Debian Linux. Being extra picky i'd ask where is Manhattan, :) There's no inherent incompatibility between FOSS software and social media, that i know of. Your only concern could be the browser but Firefox has become well-known (still doesn't stop incompetent web-designers from writing to IE-only but i digress) and capable of dealing with the everything-must-work-through-a-browser trend. As for social media, i tend to avoid it; i believe it actually has the reverse effect, or maybe a shifting effect. Yeah people will socialize a lot through social media but then those same people will, like you said, check their phones in the real world while treating patients. And what do people do now when they feel those awkward moments of silence popping up in an elevator with a stranger? Why they'll check for new messages on their phones (even though it didn't beep or vibrate). Seems like people are becoming ever more individualistic and losing people-skills. Sometimes i wish i had a baseball bat when i hear someone around me actually pronounce lol. But if you're aiming for a local business, word of mouth oughta be enough - unless you want a customer base who's definition of that is word of sms. Yup, OT. Cheers, Nuno -- On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CADqA9uZJ5y7Vq=z-rfno6xt5w+7wbnxgykfshhsq4qmve94...@mail.gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
I hope this isn't too off topic for this list but smart people lurk about these parts. Hello Nick, In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. Sounds like you've located well. Looks like the sort of area that would have a reasonable traffic level and give your business a reasonable level of exposure. Starting on a shoe-string budget during a recession, I plan on using GNU software for as much as I can possibly can without devoting too much time to computing. Music Player Daemon for music, possibly sc for basic spreadsheet needs, m0n0wall firewall for Wi-Fi, etc. Also investigating a Linux payroll system, etc. 50% of small business folds in its first year and a further 50% of those fail in the second, for a variety of reasons. One of those is you simply don't give yourself enough time to live. In small business you develop the habit of making your customers your social life, but over and above that, you must have time for yourself. Doing the books after you've just finished working ten hours a day + is one of those things that drags you down over a period of time and causes a business to fold. You argue with your family, the attitude reflects in how you relate to your customers and all aspects of performance, personal and professional, fall by the wayside. First step, have Libreoffice installed for basic letters and expense spread sheeting as they come in, then hand the lot to an accountant. Get him to do payroll also. Just feed him the figures. He won't charge you the earth because he'll know what's coming in the door and won't kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It's a sound business move and it helps him because he knows exactly what your situation is and end of year work for him is little more than hitting the enter key. Wife uses a Mac. I have been using Debian since 1996 for all my daily needs, though I still would not call my self a guru. We do not have any social media presence and we like it that way. No facebook, twitter or other accounts. We use basic cell phones. With that said... Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. I am a Master Pastry Chef by trade and a certified Baker. I have been essentially working for myself since my late teens. I have worked in Northern Italy and Vienna and won competitions in both environments in competitions at the national level. That was when I was younger and needed the opinions of others. This was before Zuckerburg was even a twinkle in his Daddy's eye. I have been extremely successful and that lead others to ask me for my opinion of their ventures. This is how I got started in consultancy work. I have never had a Facebook account and never will. I despise Zuckerburg and people may well say you need to be on there but I can't see the connection. What's the point in advising people in Bayern, Germany of your latest specials in Manhatten? This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? You can use software as previously mentioned and there are a wealth of programmes that will be invaluable. Have a look at glabels, for example. I design my own business cards and give the sheet to the printer with the words, This is what I want. They have no excuse if they can't produce what I can on my end-user PC. P.S. Thinking about social media pisses me off even more because, currently working as a paramedic, I've had co-workers take their phones out while treating patients. And I have yelled at people. These days, seems most people can't go two minutes without sucking on their digital pacifier. I would actually advise joining LinkedIn. It's the only network where you are in touch with other food professionals straight away. Networking is important. But Facebook and TwitterNo need for that waste of time. The most valuable advertising medium you have is your product. Put your heart and soul into that and people will advertise for you. Referral advertising is
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012, Nick Lidakis wrote: In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. Hi Nick. You may wish to contact David J Patrick who founded LinuxCaffe (http://www.linuxcaffe.ca) in Toronto, Canada many years ago. LinuxCaffe is a successful business providing coffee light food running completely on Linux/FOSS. I assisted David with some of the early sysadmin/architectural work for LinuxCaffe. Starting on a shoe-string budget during a recession, I plan on using GNU software for as much as I can possibly can without devoting too much time to computing. Music Player Daemon for music, possibly sc for basic spreadsheet needs, m0n0wall firewall for Wi-Fi, etc. Also investigating a Linux payroll system, etc. Wife uses a Mac. I have been using Debian since 1996 for all my daily needs, though I still would not call my self a guru. We do not have any social media presence and we like it that way. No facebook, twitter or other accounts. We use basic cell phones. With that said... Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and I have to say that a small business should not pass up any legal, ethically sound advertising option. Starting a successful small business is hard enough as it is. My personal opinion is to use Facebook and Twitter as tools to deliver your message. I'd recommend using alternatives such as identi.ca *as well*. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Regarding privacy, you should only post only as much info as you are happy to provide. It is true that data mining techniques can infer things about you from what you 'like' and even what your friends 'like' but a company facebook page wouldn't be used in the same way as a personal page so I don't see there would be a lot of data to mine. I follow the rule that I don't send something in unencrypted email (or post it on facebook) unless I'm happy for it to appear on the front page of a large national news paper. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? One of the best pieces of business advice I ever received was this: Don't sell what you like. Sell what people will buy. P.S. Thinking about social media pisses me off even more because, currently working as a paramedic, I've had co-workers take their phones out while treating patients. And I have yelled at people. These days, seems most people can't go two minutes without sucking on their digital pacifier. Internet addiction is a problem that has been recognised to exist for decades (it was around long before the Internet went mainstream) but is still not generally taken seriously, IMHO. I treasurer the ability to 'unplug' from time to time. Cheers, Rob -- Email: rob...@timetraveller.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.00.1202051201440.2...@proxima.opentrend.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook... Please don't use Facebook. http://stallman.org/facebook.html I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. Please don't use this term. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.en.html Cheers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAK5fS_EHA-ZB6S5ue5GDt+HrFCXifvZ-v3XfeH8=nobt_qg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
2012/2/4 Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt Hi, It is kinda off-topic (i'd OT it), and being picky it's GNU/Linux Debian, not GNU/Debian Linux. Being extra picky i'd ask where is Manhattan, :) This topic is absolutely OT and need to be marked OT BTW, Manhattan it isn't that little town next to Niagara Falls? -- Registered Linux User #249354 Ad astra per aspera
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Carlo Borelli writes: Manhattan it isn't that little town next to Niagara Falls? It's a town in Kansas. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ehu9hpp6@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
* On 2012 04 Feb 22:27 -0600, John Hasler wrote: Carlo Borelli writes: Manhattan it isn't that little town next to Niagara Falls? It's a town in Kansas. Yup, just an hour south of here. The Little Apple. Home of Kansas State University. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120205043037.ga19...@n0nb.us
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media [OT]
On 05/02/12 15:25, John Hasler wrote: Carlo Borelli writes: Manhattan it isn't that little town next to Niagara Falls? It's a town in Kansas. Are you sure? I thought it was (partly) an island sold for a few baubles to native indians (who got the better end of the deal). Kind regards -- Iceweasel/Firefox extensions for finding answers to Debian questions:- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections/Scott_Ferguson/debian/ NOTE: new update available for Debian Buttons (New button for querying Debian Developer Package):- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/debian-buttons/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f2e07f1.5080...@gmail.com
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
Nick Lidakis wrote: Everyone has been telling us that we *absolutely* have to be on facebook and twitter, if not more, for our coffee house. They argue that it's free marketing and advertising. That we need facebook to advertise events and specials. That most people today check their facebook before their email. That is, if they check their email at all. This does not sit well with me. I've read the tech news concerning facebook's privacy and intellectual property policies. I've recently read about twitter's country based censorship controversy. Being a neighborhood shop, I was hoping to avoid social media. I want to interact with people in person. But I agree that I need a way to let people know about events of specials. Can I do that with GNU software without selling my soul to Zuckerberg? Do I even need software or could I be smarter about this? Seems to me this is purely a business decision. You're starting a new business. You need to get the word out to new customers, and you need to stimulate repeat business. Facebook, Twitter, Google+, local community web sites, email lists, .. are simply newer compliments to traditional publicity and marketing channels (e.g, newspapers, word-of-mouth, sandwich boards, coupons, bulletin boards, ). Facebook and Twitter are pretty popular, they're free vehicles that can add to your visibility, and the investment in time is fairly small. One way to look at social media is as word of mouth on steroids. More and more, people use social media to recommend new things and places, and to coordinate meeting up with others. (For that matter, take a serious look at meetup.com -- one way to seriously stimulate business is to become a popular site for meetups.) What you really need to do is some market research. Do your potential customers use Facebook, Twitter, etc.? If someone mentions your coffee shop, where's the first place that people look to find comments, reviews, a map, hours, At the very least, I'd suggest having a simple web page with photos, hours, location, event listing, quotes, - and then add a Facebook page with a link to your web page. Make it really easy for people to find you when someone says let's meet at Nick's for coffee. If you're going to host events (e.g., music) or offer some specials to attract new customers, Twitter could be a very good way to get messages out quickly. Re. can you do it with GNU software? (or more broadly FOSS software)? That really depends on what it is. Can you host your own web site, or maintain an email list using purely FOSS software? ... sure. But that's a different question than can I reach my market. Facebook is an audience, not a technology - in the same sense that you can xerox and distribute your own newsletter, but that's different than putting an ad in the Times or the Post (though you're probably better off buying ads in something more local like The Heights and local church and school newsletters). If you want to have a prayer of being in business a year from now, and not losing your shirt, you need to be thinking about how to get customers in your door, and get them to spend money. Getting religious about what software and services you use is a serious distraction. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f2e0bb6.3050...@meetinghouse.net
Re: GNU/Debian Linux vs. facebook, Twitter and other proprietary social media
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 12:30:05PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: On Sat, 4 Feb 2012, Nick Lidakis wrote: In a nutshell, my wife and I starting a small business in a family oriented neighborhood. We're serving coffee, espresso and baking fresh bread and pastry on premises. The shop will be located at the northern tip of Manhattan in the vicinity of Inwood Hill Park (last remaining undeveloped, old growth forest in Manhattan), Isham Park and Fort Tryon Park. I am self-employed (selling translation services, not coffee), and I was up to my eyeballs in work before I ever put a page on facebook. I made one, c. 2 yrs ago, and do you want to know how many jobs I got from facebook? One. Seriously. In 2 years. I'm still up to my eyeballs in work. I honestly have gotten a LOT of work from people who've encountered me through the FOSS community, on mailing lists for relevant software (OmegaT), or from my people finding my blog entries, or, through identi.ca/statusnet, and other Free (faif) social networks (see www.farcebork.com) and from peer recommendations, professional associations, and, above all, the number one way people find me and hire me is just through plain old google searches, where they've found my website. It's a different kind of business, since my clientele is all around the world, and not from down the block (usually), but just a good website, good SEO, and participation in whichever community is most relevant to your work, it seems to me, is the best. I've been on LinkedIN forever, and have hundreds of connections, and I think that's brought me one or two jobs. But, my experience is that facebook, linkedin, twitter...they really aren't effective marketing means, anyway. I've got three very large projects working now, simultaneously. Two of these clients found me throught a professional translator's site (proz.com), and the third found me due to participation in the Debian community. At this point, I stay quite busy and do almost no active marketing, per se. I have a long client list, and get a lot of word-of-mouth recommendations. Local visibility is probably more about signage, word of mouth, location, than anything facebook can give you. I wouldn't waste time with it. I don't anymore, and I don't advertise (spam folks) my services on the faif social networks I use. I use them to be social, and keep current on events. Oh, and, indeed, my business is run 100% on Debian GNU/Linux and Free Software, and has been for a decade. ./tony -- http://www.baldwinlinguas.com translations interpreting http://tonybaldwin.me all tony, all the time! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120205054518.ga27...@deathstar.hsd1.ct.comcast.net
