Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Thu, 7 May 1998, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: component in the cluster within 2 hours. I have since found out listening to this list that the dpkg utility helps to make this chore a lot simpler, if you learn to use the command line interface (silly me). Could you please give more details about that. Imagine I need to update some package (perl for example) on 6 nodes simultaneously, what do I do? i don't know if this has been answered yet or not, but try this: 1. have one of the machines mirror the debian archives, including the non-US crypto-related stuff (secure shell - ssh - is essential). set up /etc/exports so that all local machines can NFS mount them. 2. set up all machines so that they NFS mount the debian main archive as /debian, and the debian non-US archive as /debian-non-US. 3. install ssh on all machines, and set them up to allow one machine to have password-less root access to all of the others. 4. when you need to install/upgrade a package, write a little script like this: #! /bin/bash # list of hosts to execute commands on hosts='host1 host2 host3 host4 .' # command(s) to run. can be multiline command if needed cmd='dpkg -iBE /debian/path/to/package.deb' for i in $hosts ; do ssh $i $cmd done if you need to do more complex things on each machine in turn, then start by write a shell or perl script to do the job, then copy it to each machine (using scp) and execute it on each machine. e.g. if you have written a script called fix-stuff.sh which understands the command line options foo and bar, then a little wrapper script like the following would copy it to all machines and execute it: #! /bin/bash # list of hosts to execute script on hosts='host1 host2 host3 host4 .' for i in $hosts ; do scp fix-stuff.sh $i:/tmp ssh $i /tmp/fix-stuff.sh foo bar done these samples could easily be made generic so that they got $cmd or the name of the script to copyexec from the command line. craig -- craig sanders -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Pierre Blanchet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Here, i have 85 PC to install. And the method i will try will be slighty different (note: it will only work in a network, with a local mirror): 3) Write a shell script, dpkg-record, something like : Just out of curiosity: What speaks against using rdist? IIRC somebody suggested this in a previose discussion on this topic. Rainer -- KeyID=58341901 fingerprint=A5 57 04 B3 69 88 A1 FB 78 1D B5 64 E0 BF 72 EB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
RC == Rainer Clasen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: RC Pierre Blanchet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Here, i have 85 PC to install. And the method i will try will be slighty different (note: it will only work in a network, with a local mirror): 3) Write a shell script, dpkg-record, something like : RC Just out of curiosity: What speaks against using rdist? IIRC somebody RC suggested this in a previose discussion on this topic. RC Rainer Because rdist is just like cp. It will only distribute directories (actually files also, but it will be very difficult to rdist 10-20k files of a traditionnal Debian system). The idea behind dpkg-record/dpkg-replay is flexibility and simplicity. You can install whatever package wherever you want automatically (if you have installed this package already). Pierre Blanchet. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Pierre Blanchet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): RC == Rainer Clasen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: RC Just out of curiosity: What speaks against using rdist? IIRC somebody RC suggested this in a previose discussion on this topic. The idea behind dpkg-record/dpkg-replay is flexibility and simplicity. You can install whatever package wherever you want automatically (if you have installed this package already). Ahhh! Appearantly my assumption is false, that you want to keep all boxes as equal as possible ... Naturally thats no (easy) job for rdist. I like your idea to keep a sitewide default for package configuration. This just goes one step ahead detached installation (which curently is impossible with dselect) - wow! I Hope there will be a time Apt can do this by default. Rainer -- KeyID=58341901 fingerprint=A5 57 04 B3 69 88 A1 FB 78 1D B5 64 E0 BF 72 EB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
That's good for selecting packages but if you are just updating the things, my suggestion would be a local mirror and apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get clean. What is apt-get? I can't find any references to it anywhere on my system... Ken -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Sun, May 10, 1998 at 05:16:09PM -0600, Kenneth L. Summers wrote: That's good for selecting packages but if you are just updating the things, my suggestion would be a local mirror and apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get clean. What is apt-get? I can't find any references to it anywhere on my system... It's the backbone for Apt, a replacement for dselect (The (G)UI is still in development, although the snapshot looked great.) Look at project/experimental. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - it's a valid address w/o spam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Sun, 10 May 1998, Kenneth L. Summers wrote: What is apt-get? I can't find any references to it anywhere on my system... Like someone's already said, it's the new package manager interface backend. I'd suggest you get it from project/experimental. It can be used as a method for dselect (after installing apt-get, hit the access command in dselect) and it seems to be much faster and niftier. Will -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ | |PGP Public Key: http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/index.html#pgpkey| -- | You think you're so smart, but I've seen you naked | | and I'll prob'ly see you naked again ... | | --The Barenaked Ladies, Blame It On Me | -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
KLS == Kenneth L Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Ken! I post this message again, as there were some problems with listserver. KLS I think it might have gotten lost at this end... we have a non-Linux mail KLS server :) component in the cluster within 2 hours. I have since found out listening to this list that the dpkg utility helps to make this chore a lot simpler, if you learn to use the command line interface (silly me). Could you please give more details about that. Imagine I need to update some package (perl for example) on 6 nodes simultaneously, what do I do? KLS It was posted a week or so ago, but here's what they said: KLS a) Install one machine with all the packages you like. KLS b) Get the selection with KLS dpkg --get-selections my.selection KLS c) Install the next machine KLS Quit dselect after you specified the access method KLS d) Add the selection from the other machine with KLS cat my.selection | dpkg --set-selections KLS e) Run dselect to install the files Or if you need batch mode KLS mount /pub/debian under /mnt and then KLS cd /mnt KLS dpkg -iGROEB hamm/hamm hamm/contrib hamm/non-free KLS I suppose this assumes you're installing hamm (the last command anyway). KLS What I had done is write a script that would take as input a status file KLS from the machine I want to clone, the status file of the newly installed KLS machine, and produced a status file that would cause dselect/install to KLS install or remove whatever was necessary. This kind of fiddling with the KLS system makes me nervous, though. KLS Hope that helps. KLS Ken Here, i have 85 PC to install. And the method i will try will be slighty different (note: it will only work in a network, with a local mirror): 1) Install the first machine (just floppy install). 2) Run dselect and set up my selection. 3) Write a shell script, dpkg-record, something like : for i in list-of-packages do tee $i.install.log | dpkg -i $i done ($i.install.log is my answer when a package asks me) 4) Modify the dinstall script on the boot floppies to not run dselect at reboot but something like : mount local-mirror:/debian /mnt echo name-of-the-first-machine /root/.rhost /mnt/dpkg-replay setup tcp-wrappers, ... where dpkg-replay is : for i in list-of-packages do cat $i.install.log | dpkg -i $i done 5) whenever i install a new package on the first machine, i'll just : on the first-machine: dpkg-record package.deb and then rsh the-84-others-machines dpkg-replay package.deb Well, i miss some glue, but you get the idea, Pierre Blanchet. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Thu, May 07, 1998 at 05:15:26PM -0600, Kenneth L. Summers wrote: Could you please give more details about that. Imagine I need to update some package (perl for example) on 6 nodes simultaneously, what do I do? It was posted a week or so ago, but here's what they said: a) Install one machine with all the packages you like. b) Get the selection with dpkg --get-selections my.selection c) Install the next machine Quit dselect after you specified the access method d) Add the selection from the other machine with cat my.selection | dpkg --set-selections e) Run dselect to install the files Or if you need batch mode mount /pub/debian under /mnt and then cd /mnt dpkg -iGROEB hamm/hamm hamm/contrib hamm/non-free That's good for selecting packages but if you are just updating the things, my suggestion would be a local mirror and apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get clean. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - it's a valid address w/o spam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Hi, Ken! I post this message again, as there were some problems with listserver. I think it might have gotten lost at this end... we have a non-Linux mail server :) component in the cluster within 2 hours. I have since found out listening to this list that the dpkg utility helps to make this chore a lot simpler, if you learn to use the command line interface (silly me). Could you please give more details about that. Imagine I need to update some package (perl for example) on 6 nodes simultaneously, what do I do? It was posted a week or so ago, but here's what they said: a) Install one machine with all the packages you like. b) Get the selection with dpkg --get-selections my.selection c) Install the next machine Quit dselect after you specified the access method d) Add the selection from the other machine with cat my.selection | dpkg --set-selections e) Run dselect to install the files Or if you need batch mode mount /pub/debian under /mnt and then cd /mnt dpkg -iGROEB hamm/hamm hamm/contrib hamm/non-free I suppose this assumes you're installing hamm (the last command anyway). What I had done is write a script that would take as input a status file from the machine I want to clone, the status file of the newly installed machine, and produced a status file that would cause dselect/install to install or remove whatever was necessary. This kind of fiddling with the system makes me nervous, though. Hope that helps. Ken -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Hi, Ken! I post this message again, as there were some problems with listserver. First of all thanks for the reply! Well, welcome to the club. We made the decision about six months ago to replace our X-terms with Linux boxes. The `pilot' project was to build a small cluster of Debian Linux boxes that serve as terminals for a classroom and general use during the day, and as a compute engine at night and weekends. Excellent! If we can do that, it's what I want (at least now :) 2. Is it easy to clone debian systems? How should one maintain it? I did this the relatively hard way... one machine at a time. Even so, I got to where I could start with a machine in a box and have it a fully functional component in the cluster within 2 hours. I have since found out listening to this list that the dpkg utility helps to make this chore a lot simpler, if you learn to use the command line interface (silly me). Could you please give more details about that. Imagine I need to update some package (perl for example) on 6 nodes simultaneously, what do I do? I've seen several responses point you to Beowulf. Check it out. I have a look. It's much more than we want or capable of doing. You build supercomputer out of small computers connected with fast network, so that speed of calculation is proportional to the number of Linux boxes. They succeded in solving problems like fluid motion and multi-body gravitational calculations, and speed is indeed proportional to number of linux boxes, not quite linearly though. It would be probably too ambitious for us. Thanks, Sasha. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Thu, May 07, 1998 at 03:59:39PM -0400, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: I've seen several responses point you to Beowulf. Check it out. I have a look. It's much more than we want or capable of doing. You build supercomputer out of small computers connected with fast network, so that speed of calculation is proportional to the number of Linux boxes. Almost proportional. What some people don't get (or don't want to) is the the speed of the network is a very limiting factor. If you want to build a Beowulf cluster on top of El Cheapo NE-2000 10 Mbps, it won't work. But doing the same using Good Ethernet 100 Mbps achieves quite a lot... I can dig my bookmarks if you are interested. The other limiting factor is homogeneousness sp. On top of a homogeneous MPI cluster, the thing performs quite well. On top of *extremely* heterogeneous PVM cluster performance suffers a LOT, unless of course you design the programs with this in mind, but that's an entirely different issue. Hands on experience beats any book or reference here. They succeded in solving problems like fluid motion and multi-body gravitational calculations, and speed is indeed proportional to number of linux boxes, not quite linearly though. It would be probably too ambitious for us. It depends on the scale of problems you are after. 100**3 grids on fluid dynamics (quite small) take any available PC down to its knees. 50x50 lattices (which can prove useful for certain kind of research) can be handled reasonably fast on most modern PC's, being a little pattient. Being potentially intrusive, at Fermi *there's* a Beowulf cluster running. Cheers, Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 09:04:25AM -0600, Kenneth L. Summers wrote: My colleagues who usually work on X-terminals noticed certain advantages of PC compared to X-terminal and basically the idea is instead of buying extra 5 X-terminals to buy 5 PC. I think I understand how to maintain single-computer system, but I have very little experience with clusters. Well, welcome to the club. We made the decision about six months ago to replace our X-terms with Linux boxes. The `pilot' project was to build a small cluster of Debian Linux boxes that serve as terminals for a classroom and general use during the day, and as a compute engine at night and weekends. Interesting. In the CS department at my university, they have decided to move towards xterms instead, since they have lower cost of ownership. Most PCs are just terminals now anyway -- we have Citrix WinFrame which allows Windows work from any terminal. Some of the better PCs have NT 4.0 on the desktops, too. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Interesting. In the CS department at my university, they have decided to move towards xterms instead, since they have lower cost of ownership. Most PCs are just terminals now anyway -- we have Citrix WinFrame which allows Windows work from any terminal. Some of the better PCs have NT 4.0 on the desktops, too. Six months ago when we bought our cluster we could get a 233 Mhz Pentium II with 32 Mb of memory, 4 Gb hard drive, etc., etc. (basically a top-of-the- line computer of the day) for about $2100 each. With monitor. HDS X-terms were running just over $2000 each. And the X-terms have a nasty habit of crashing when a lot of memory is used... say when one is browsing the web. I've not noticed the Debian boxes doing that. For $100 we decided having computing power available to run Condor and the like, and having something that wouldn't crash when our tutorials were viewed using Netscrape, and not loading down the mainframes, and... We though it was a deal. I still think so. Ken -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Hi, I have a question about organising Debian Linux cluster for small physics experiment. Half a year ago we bought a PC and I am running Debian 2.0 on it. My colleagues who usually work on X-terminals noticed certain advantages of PC compared to X-terminal and basically the idea is instead of buying extra 5 X-terminals to buy 5 PC. I think I understand how to maintain single-computer system, but I have very little experience with clusters. So far they want PC just to be an X-terminal, but I beleive they will be interested in it's computing power very soon. Questions: 1. What is better: one powerfull central computer surrounded by many little ones? OR democratic society of equal computers? 2. Is it easy to clone debian systems? How should one maintain it? 3. What are the recommendations about hardware specific to clusters would you make? 4. Any useful resources on this matter? (Basically how to approach the problem). Thanks you, Sasha. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Hi Sasha; As to #1, I am not sure that I am reading your question properly, but a large computer networked to many 'little' computers is superiour to just having a bunch of little computers as there are tasks that the 'big computer' can accomplish much faster and more efficiently than the 'little' machines can do even if they are a cluster. In addition, the 'little' computers (even if they are not a cluster) will do a lot of work for which the 'big' machine is NOT efficient. By 'big' machine I am talking about things like 'main frames', super- computers, vax-clusters, HP/Apolo clusters, etc. #2 there are a number of network configuration maintenance tools that make maintaining multiple machines rather simple. Multiple installations are not at all difficult (but could be a bit easier). #3 if you are really talking about clustering and not just networking then I am afraid that I don't know what the status is in Linux in that regard. I believe that if you do a price comparison on purchasing machines for Linux as opposed to buying X-terminals you will find that the equalivent display quality PC will not be significantly more expensive than the X-terminal and it will add to the potential work capability of the users. Even without clustering, these PC's could off load work that is handled very inefficiently by larger machines such as report writing and some data analysis. On Mon, May 04, 1998 at 06:42:44PM -0400, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: Hi, I have a question about organising Debian Linux cluster for small physics experiment. Half a year ago we bought a PC and I am running Debian 2.0 on it. My colleagues who usually work on X-terminals noticed certain advantages of PC compared to X-terminal and basically the idea is instead of buying extra 5 X-terminals to buy 5 PC. I think I understand how to maintain single-computer system, but I have very little experience with clusters. So far they want PC just to be an X-terminal, but I beleive they will be interested in it's computing power very soon. Questions: 1. What is better: one powerfull central computer surrounded by many little ones? OR democratic society of equal computers? 2. Is it easy to clone debian systems? How should one maintain it? 3. What are the recommendations about hardware specific to clusters would you make? 4. Any useful resources on this matter? (Basically how to approach the problem). Thanks you, Sasha. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- best, -bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] from a 1996 Micro$loth ad campaign: The less you know about computers the more you want Micro$oft! See! They do get some things right! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
#3 if you are really talking about clustering and not just networking then I am afraid that I don't know what the status is in Linux in that regard. I do :) Check out http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/beowulf/ (Beowulf project page) Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
On Mon, May 04, 1998 at 06:42:44PM -0400, Alexander Kushnirenko wrote: Hi, I have a question about organising Debian Linux cluster for small physics experiment. Half a year ago we bought a PC and I am running Debian 2.0 on it. My colleagues who usually work on X-terminals noticed certain advantages of PC compared to X-terminal and basically the idea is instead of buying extra 5 X-terminals to buy 5 PC. I think I understand how to maintain single-computer system, but I have very little experience with clusters. So far they want PC just to be an X-terminal, but I beleive they will be interested in it's computing power very soon. Questions: 1. What is better: one powerfull central computer surrounded by many little ones? OR democratic society of equal computers? 2. Is it easy to clone debian systems? How should one maintain it? 3. What are the recommendations about hardware specific to clusters would you make? 4. Any useful resources on this matter? (Basically how to approach the problem). Thanks you, Sasha. snip I am fairly new at Linux but I ran across this on the net and saved the URL for later reference. It is the Beowulf project that connects many small Linux PCs into a parallel computing environment. http://cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov/beowulf/ John C. Ellingboe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How to administer Debian Linux cluster? [Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?]
I have a related question. We are considering putting together a collection of Linux machines, but our major concern is administration. Because we are the fortunate recipients of government funding, we are in the situation where we can fairly easily purchase hardware, but there is no way we can afford to hire someone to administer the hardware. That means that we need to come up with a collaborative administration scheme that keeps things fairly simple while maintaining security. Any comments on successful (or not so successful) schemes? Regards, Mike -- Michael A. Miller[EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign PGP public key available on request -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to build Debian Linux cluster?
Hi Sasha. My colleagues who usually work on X-terminals noticed certain advantages of PC compared to X-terminal and basically the idea is instead of buying extra 5 X-terminals to buy 5 PC. I think I understand how to maintain single-computer system, but I have very little experience with clusters. Well, welcome to the club. We made the decision about six months ago to replace our X-terms with Linux boxes. The `pilot' project was to build a small cluster of Debian Linux boxes that serve as terminals for a classroom and general use during the day, and as a compute engine at night and weekends. To make a long story short, we have had enough success that we are now replacing the remaining X-terms in the building with PCs running Linux. 1. What is better: one powerfull central computer surrounded by many little ones? OR democratic society of equal computers? I cannot answer this from personal experience, but we have the democratic version running off of a 100 Mbps switch with MPI, PVM, all that stuff and it seems to do a good job. Can't hold a candle to our SP2, but the cluster is running ;) 2. Is it easy to clone debian systems? How should one maintain it? I did this the relatively hard way... one machine at a time. Even so, I got to where I could start with a machine in a box and have it a fully functional component in the cluster within 2 hours. I have since found out listening to this list that the dpkg utility helps to make this chore a lot simpler, if you learn to use the command line interface (silly me). 3. What are the recommendations about hardware specific to clusters would you make? If you want to do parallel computation (I assume that's why you are clustering them) you gotta minimize communication costs. We are still in the process of working the bugs out of our network, but production speeds went way up once we moved from 10 Mbps half duplex hubs to a 100 Mbps full duplex switch. 4. Any useful resources on this matter? (Basically how to approach the problem). I've seen several responses point you to Beowulf. Check it out. We decided that it didn't offer anything concrete above and beyond what could be built without it (anybody out there who knows better, let me know... please!). Good luck! Ken Ken Summers Albuquerque High Performance Computing Center The University of New Mexico [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
