Re: I am leaving Debian
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Daniel Mashao) wrote on 20.03.98 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Bruce will sorely be missed by us. His departure will indeed make people > re-evaluate whether Debian is stable enough to operate or one should > indeed be looking for products controlled in the Red Hat manner. May I point out that Bruce has absolutely no relation to Debian stability? This flareup is about marketing only. I must say I have my doubts about marketing arguments, if they come from someone who makes bad PR for Debian whenever he's upset. Bruce has done good things in the past. I even expect him to do more good things in the future, and I wish him well for that. But he should sure find a better way of handling stress. > The question I ask myself is how far will the net-based distributioon go > before personality problems overcome it. It shows no signs of stopping. MfG Kai -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:33:58AM -0300, Nelson Posse Lago wrote: > I'd like to know if what Remco Blaakmeer mentioned is indeed the problem > point, namely the fact that the developers are more interested in > developing a great hacker system and not a general purpose user system > and, if so, I'd appreciate a little more enlightnment on the pratical That's not quite accurate. The conflict is not about technical differences in the system so much, but that many developers do not want to give up technical ground for marketing reasons. There is no objection to a general purpose system, except if marketing of the system is getting in the way of the technical aspects. Like naming deity. Marketing says the name may offend some people. Some developers like it because it fits in with Unix's daemons and general character, it's a good name. Others don't mind what it is but don't think we should name it for marketing reasons. I hope I have summed this up accurately. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt Mobile: +61 412 011 176 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rising Software Australia Pty. Ltd. Developers of music education software including Auralia & Musition. 31 Elmhurst Road, Blackburn, Victoria Australia, 3130 Phone: +61 3 9894 4788 Fax: +61 3 9894 3362 USA Toll Free: 1-888-667-7839 Internet: http://www.rising.com.au/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, DAVID B. TEAGUE wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Bruce Perens wrote: > > > There was some question on this list yesterday regarding whether I > > would leave Debian. It is indeed true. I will remain as president of > > SPI and will redirect SPI's mission to be for all free software rather > > than just for Debian. I'm sorry it had to be this way, but I feel that > > my mission to bring free software to the masses really isn't > > compatible with Debian any longer, and that I should be working with > > one of the more mainstream Linux distributions. > > Bruce > > I am one of the users in the trences who appreciates your work for > Debian. You have provided decisions when decisions needed to be made. > Your decisions have appeared to me to be thoughtful and wise. > > Your departure causes me pause. I appeal to you not to leave Debian. > If you do leave, I wish you the very best that life has to offer. > Bruce will sorely be missed by us. His departure will indeed make people re-evaluate whether Debian is stable enough to operate or one should indeed be looking for products controlled in the Red Hat manner. The question I ask myself is how far will the net-based distributioon go before personality problems overcome it. I guess its a philosophical question and as a Christian I cannot help but think of the Tower of Babel, did God confuse the people or were they overcome by their limitations? Well Bruce thank you for taking Debian this far. It would not be same without your tiresome work. If you do join another distributions, please let us know. It may be worth our try. Good luck and God bless you, -Daniel /---/ Daniel J. Mashao Electrical Engineering[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Cape Town http://www.ee.uct.ac.za/~daniel Rondebosch, 7700, S. Africa(w) 27+21+650 2816 (h) 27+21+705 1233 /---/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Ian Perry wrote: > Your statement that "free software to the masses really isn't > compatible with Debian" is disturbing. i think he said that it is incompatible with his vision. > I have spent a considerable amount of time over the last four months > investigating and trialling Debian, over slackware and redhat, as we > are in the near future about to install some serious hardware running > under Linux. Debian, so far, is ahead. > > Can you please clarify your statement, as it appears to point to > Debian going commercial, which will lead to all sorts of nasties. debian is NOT going commercial. our committment to free software and the free software community is as strong as ever. i hope that answers your question :-) craig PS: as you noted, we are way ahead in terms of quality and we intend to stay that way. we probably need some sort of evangelism/marketing team to spread the word about debian. this will probably be a good opportunity for users who want to contribute something back to debian but aren't confident about their coding skills...not everyone is a programmer, but everyone has some valuable skill they can contribute if they have the time or inclination. -- craig sanders -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
Richard writes: > I don't know the details of the war that led to Bruce's decision. There was no "war". > My concern is that we have not only lost Bruce, but that the wise > overview, philosophy as embedded in his approach has been lost as well. Ian Jackson has been our leader for some time now. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Bruce Perens wrote: > I would counsel against panic. There are 300 developers, and some of them > are _smart_. Nobody was essential, especially me. Ok, I tried not to get into this, but I feel the need for some information on the issue. I'd like to know if what Remco Blaakmeer mentioned is indeed the problem point, namely the fact that the developers are more interested in developing a great hacker system and not a general purpose user system and, if so, I'd appreciate a little more enlightnment on the pratical problems etc. And, if that's the point, I'd like to know what's the future actions of SPI towards this goal (general purpose user system). I feel the lack of presence of SPI outside of debian, which will probably change now (AFAIK, SPI doesn't even have a web page!). I myself enjoy editing config files with a text editor instead of a nice GUI program ;-), so I guess debian will continue to be my distribution of choice; however, I *really* want to see GNU/linux become a viable alternative for the desktop, we are already very close! See ya, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's Internet! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Ian Perry wrote: > Bruce, > > On the Thursday, 19 March 1998 8:00 you said. > > > > but I feel that my mission to > > bring free software to the masses really isn't compatible with Debian any > > longer, and that I should be working with one of the more mainstream > > Linux distributions. > > Your statement that "free software to the masses really isn't compatible > with Debian" is disturbing. > > I have spent a considerable amount of time over the last four months > investigating and trialling Debian, over slackware and redhat, as we are in > the near future about to install some serious hardware running under Linux. > Debian, so far, is ahead. > > Can you please clarify your statement, as it appears to point to Debian > going commercial, which will lead to all sorts of nasties. On slashdot.org[1] I read a quote from Bruce: "My mission is to bring free software to the masses. Unfortunately, that's not where Debian's developers want to go - they are more into making a great system for other hackers like them. There's nothing wrong with that, but the two mission statements don't overlap at all." I think this quote explains why it is incompatible. Don't worry about Debian going commercial. Remco [1] check it out: http://slashdot.org/ This is a cool site where hackers, nerds and other people comment on "News for Nerds on the Stuff that Matters". -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
Bruce, On the Thursday, 19 March 1998 8:00 you said. > > but I feel that my mission to > bring free software to the masses really isn't compatible with Debian any > longer, and that I should be working with one of the more mainstream Linux > distributions. Your statement that "free software to the masses really isn't compatible with Debian" is disturbing. I have spent a considerable amount of time over the last four months investigating and trialling Debian, over slackware and redhat, as we are in the near future about to install some serious hardware running under Linux. Debian, so far, is ahead. Can you please clarify your statement, as it appears to point to Debian going commercial, which will lead to all sorts of nasties. Thanks Ian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
I would counsel against panic. There are 300 developers, and some of them are _smart_. Nobody was essential, especially me. Bruce -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
> I'd like to know what will happen to the Debian trademark and > the logo as well as the hardware and other (non-human)resources > Debian Project currently has? Will they remain with Debian? Regarding hardware, SPI owns one disk drive, I think. All other hardware is owned by the people who donate its use and should remain in its present state. SPI will continue to provide financial management and some other corporate service (like holding the trademark) until the Debian group tells us they want to manage that stuff for themselves. They are currently not equipped to do so, and so far have shown no desire to take that task over. Thanks Bruce -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
I don't know the details of the war that led to Bruce's decision. My concern is that we have not only lost Bruce, but that the wise overview, philosophy as embedded in his approach has been lost as well. As a user I am really wondering what to do - I fear for Debian's future viability if the developers (the heart of this distribution) have made Bruce's continued involvement untenable. Richard On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, DAVID B. TEAGUE wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Bruce Perens wrote: > > > There was some question on this list yesterday regarding whether I > > would leave Debian. It is indeed true. I will remain as president of > > SPI and will redirect SPI's mission to be for all free software rather > > than just for Debian. I'm sorry it had to be this way, but I feel that > > my mission to bring free software to the masses really isn't > > compatible with Debian any longer, and that I should be working with > > one of the more mainstream Linux distributions. > > Bruce > > I am one of the users in the trences who appreciates your work for > Debian. You have provided decisions when decisions needed to be made. > Your decisions have appeared to me to be thoughtful and wise. > > Your departure causes me pause. I appeal to you not to leave Debian. > If you do leave, I wish you the very best that life has to offer. > > --David Teague > > --- > LINUX: the FREE 32 bit OS for [3456]86 PC's available NOW! > David B Teague | Ask me how user interface copyrights & software > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | patents make programing a dangerous business. > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Perens) writes: > There was some question on this list yesterday regarding whether I would > leave Debian. It is indeed true. I will remain as president of SPI and > will redirect SPI's mission to be for all free software rather than just > for Debian. I'm sorry it had to be this way, but I feel that my mission to > bring free software to the masses really isn't compatible with Debian any > longer, and that I should be working with one of the more mainstream Linux > distributions. I'd like to know what will happen to the Debian trademark and the logo as well as the hardware and other (non-human)resources Debian Project currently has? Will they remain with Debian? In any case I'd like thank you and the others for the good work (creating a system that works) you've done. Regards, /Tommi Kääriäinen/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I am leaving Debian
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Bruce Perens wrote: > There was some question on this list yesterday regarding whether I > would leave Debian. It is indeed true. I will remain as president of > SPI and will redirect SPI's mission to be for all free software rather > than just for Debian. I'm sorry it had to be this way, but I feel that > my mission to bring free software to the masses really isn't > compatible with Debian any longer, and that I should be working with > one of the more mainstream Linux distributions. Bruce I am one of the users in the trences who appreciates your work for Debian. You have provided decisions when decisions needed to be made. Your decisions have appeared to me to be thoughtful and wise. Your departure causes me pause. I appeal to you not to leave Debian. If you do leave, I wish you the very best that life has to offer. --David Teague --- LINUX: the FREE 32 bit OS for [3456]86 PC's available NOW! David B Teague | Ask me how user interface copyrights & software [EMAIL PROTECTED] | patents make programing a dangerous business. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am leaving Debian
There was some question on this list yesterday regarding whether I would leave Debian. It is indeed true. I will remain as president of SPI and will redirect SPI's mission to be for all free software rather than just for Debian. I'm sorry it had to be this way, but I feel that my mission to bring free software to the masses really isn't compatible with Debian any longer, and that I should be working with one of the more mainstream Linux distributions. Thanks Bruce Perens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
