Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Am 2008-07-18 12:04:35, schrieb Steve C. Lamb: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 04:01:31PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote: I do not believe it, since I am admin a Courier-Imap Server with 73.000 users ith 2.8 million legitim messages and 8 million spams per day. And a d-u troll. I would never use mbox for such stuff... and of course, a mailque und 200.000 is read in in less then 2 minutes... Using a Quad Opteron 880 with 32 GByte of memory. Yes, everyone has one of those on their desktop. Begone. It is only a small Development Station... ;-) I have seen, that the new Phenom are less expensive and have now several times more power... And unfortunately I am very jealous since I know to many peoples using such machines... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Am 2008-07-13 14:06:51, schrieb Steve Lamb: My apologies to Ron, I slapped reply and not reply-to-all and trim. :( Ron Johnson wrote: That's qmail's fault, not that of Maildir. No, that is a design problem in Maildir. Granted I wouldn't want my MTAs I do not believe it, since I am admin a Courier-Imap Server with 73.000 users ith 2.8 million legitim messages and 8 million spams per day. I would never use mbox for such stuff... and of course, a mailque und 200.000 is read in in less then 2 minutes... Using a Quad Opteron 880 with 32 GByte of memory. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 04:01:31PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote: I do not believe it, since I am admin a Courier-Imap Server with 73.000 users ith 2.8 million legitim messages and 8 million spams per day. And a d-u troll. I would never use mbox for such stuff... and of course, a mailque und 200.000 is read in in less then 2 minutes... Using a Quad Opteron 880 with 32 GByte of memory. Yes, everyone has one of those on their desktop. Begone. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Ron Johnson wrote: Maybe it's because I keep d-u messages is semi-annual history folders so directories never get above 10,000 files, but what problems do Maildirs have? Needing to open many files instead of one? Needing to deal with that many files in any capacity, ever. I've had the displeasure of being the administrator of a qmail setup that would accept all mail (smtp-time rejection, what's that!?) then filter then generate bounces to bogus email addresses in spam. Yeah, 50,000 maildir queues that take 20 minutes to stat are no fun. That pretty much swore me off that idiotic idea. I'll take that over an errant EOF wiping out a large chunk of a directory. Let's see. I've been using mbox since the early 90s with my first Netcom account and elm. Or was it late 80s? Anyway, let's just say about 15 years. In that time know how many EOF problems I've hit in all of my mail in 15 years? 0. I've had 2 hard drives take a nosedive on me in that time. Or not to put too fine a point on it, opening up one maildir directory with more than, say, 2000 messages in it will have wasted more time than I have ever had wasted by errant EOFs. Yes I can restore from backup, but (a) the bug that caused the errant EOF is still there, and Or in my case, not. I guess you could say that the bug that caused my hard-drive to eat itself is still there... (b) bringing back the back-up emails without introducing duplicates or overwriting new mails is a hassle. Not so much any more. Pull out archives, merge, run remove duplicates tool, done. But then, I haven't had to do that, either, since when I lose my mail stores to hard drive failures I generally am no concerned about the merge portion. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/13/08 04:14, Steve Lamb wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Maybe it's because I keep d-u messages is semi-annual history folders so directories never get above 10,000 files, but what problems do Maildirs have? Needing to open many files instead of one? Needing to deal with that many files in any capacity, ever. I've had the displeasure of being the administrator of a qmail setup that would accept all mail (smtp-time rejection, what's that!?) then filter then generate bounces to bogus email addresses in spam. Yeah, 50,000 maildir queues that take 20 minutes to stat are no fun. That pretty much swore me off that idiotic idea. That's qmail's fault, not that of Maildir. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New York is doomed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkh5/YEACgkQS9HxQb37Xmf82QCg0bYiBxwPJyucpoOKaIUKa1/b e0MAoKFaMi86RqVJ4h89jAxq7oM9tn/B =+cPj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 08:31:06PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/10/08 12:38, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:38:35PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/09/08 13:26, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] try a different MUA? This is why IMAP should be the standard mail store, not mboxes in proprietary locations. second that. THe convenience is incredible. Case in point: last month the family and I took a vacation. For several days we were going to be at separate locations, so the kids would be without my laptop (which carries separate accounts for each of them, I am the best dad in the world!). Well, no, because I am. Anyway... ;-) Creating individual accounts for everyone on a computer *should* be nothing to crow about. Not doing it should be a reason the Geek Police takes your computer away from you. didn't mean to crow about that... I was attempting to dissuade the potential raft of OMG, I hope you kids have separate accounts... responses. Oh well. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
My apologies to Ron, I slapped reply and not reply-to-all and trim. :( Ron Johnson wrote: That's qmail's fault, not that of Maildir. No, that is a design problem in Maildir. Granted I wouldn't want my MTAs using a flat file for all its traffic, it makes no sense there for how short lived messages should be. But it exposes the severe flaw that large directories are next to impossible to deal with easily. Right now my trash is 2000 messages at 14Mb. 50,000 messages would be ~350Mb. Certainly doesn't take me 20 minutes to begin to work with a 350Mb flat file. Hell, at work I've opened larger flat files over the network in shorter time. signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Jul 10, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Steve C. Lamb wrote: On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:38:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:38:35PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/09/08 13:26, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: This is why IMAP should be the standard mail store, not mboxes in proprietary locations. second that. THe convenience is incredible. Case in point: Here's another fine example. I use dovecot on my server to expose my mbox mail via IMAP. Here are the locations from where I regularly check my mail: We really gotta get you over to Maildir someday, Steve. ;-) Then you can back up mail directories with thinks like rdiff and not pull in the whole mbox file into the backup again. Just the new mail. (GRIN) -- Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Nate Duehr wrote: We really gotta get you over to Maildir someday, Steve. ;-) Then you can back up mail directories with thinks like rdiff and not pull in the whole mbox file into the backup again. Just the new mail. (GRIN) While I do think Maildir is a lot better than mbox, applications like rsync, rdiff-backup, etc, copy only what's changed in files, so rsync'ing a mbox is actually efficient. -- Credit ... is the only enduring testimonial to man's confidence in man. -- James Blish Eduardo M KALINOWSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://move.to/hpkb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Nate Duehr wrote: We really gotta get you over to Maildir someday, Steve. ;-) Uh, no, thanks. I far prefer mbox's problems to maildir's. Then you can back up mail directories with thinks like rdiff and not pull in the whole mbox file into the backup again. Just the new mail. (GRIN) Huh? You do realize that diff does work on individiual lines in a file so effectively no difference. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/12/08 18:46, Steve Lamb wrote: Nate Duehr wrote: We really gotta get you over to Maildir someday, Steve. ;-) Uh, no, thanks. I far prefer mbox's problems to maildir's. Maybe it's because I keep d-u messages is semi-annual history folders so directories never get above 10,000 files, but what problems do Maildirs have? Needing to open many files instead of one? I'll take that over an errant EOF wiping out a large chunk of a directory. Yes I can restore from backup, but (a) the bug that caused the errant EOF is still there, and (b) bringing back the back-up emails without introducing duplicates or overwriting new mails is a hassle. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New York is doomed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkh5UYoACgkQS9HxQb37XmfedgCgj1Giw2MhOjasrZaJuOadg//C Bg4An3BNE3J4bc+jdEqwbrGHCTGtrITZ =ogZ3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Steve Lamb wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Of course, it drops mails directly into Maildir folders, so you'd have to tell Dovcot to use Maildir instead of mbox. But that should not be hard. I was talking about the filters from the client more than the subfolders. Dovecot doesn't do sieve. There is a plug-in for sieve. http://wiki.dovecot.org/LDA/Sieve HTH Wackojacko -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Wackojacko wrote: Steve Lamb wrote: Dovecot doesn't do sieve. There is a plug-in for sieve. http://wiki.dovecot.org/LDA/Sieve HTH Hell yeah it helps. Hm, they're compiled in by default in Ubuntu, wonder if that means Debian too. Also... http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/2008-May/029069.html ...Wewt, TBird Sieve extensions! I know what I'm going to be playing with this weekend! Thanks! Yes, I said wewt, for those who went all o.O at that, deal. :P signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:38:35PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/09/08 13:26, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] try a different MUA? This is why IMAP should be the standard mail store, not mboxes in proprietary locations. second that. THe convenience is incredible. Case in point: last month the family and I took a vacation. For several days we were going to be at separate locations, so the kids would be without my laptop (which carries separate accounts for each of them, I am the best dad in the world!). I installed squirrelmail on my mail server, pointed it at the IMAP server (dovecot) and the problem was solved, in about 5 minutes. The whole family had mail access over the web without mucking around with teaching them how to configure clients (and then clean up afterwards!) and so forth. easy peasy. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:38:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:38:35PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/09/08 13:26, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: This is why IMAP should be the standard mail store, not mboxes in proprietary locations. second that. THe convenience is incredible. Case in point: Here's another fine example. I use dovecot on my server to expose my mbox mail via IMAP. Here are the locations from where I regularly check my mail: On the server itself via mutt (ssh session). Squirrelmail via any web browser the world over. Thunderbird on my KUbuntu laptop. Thunderbird on my Windows partition on my gaming machine. Thunderbird on my KUbuntu partition on my gaming machine. Thunderbird on my KUbuntu VirtualBox VM under Windows on my gaming machine. Thunderbird on my KUbuntu VirtualBox VM under Windows on my work laptop. Sure, I could do all that with ssh to the server and read via mutt but I prefer Thunderbird and being able to just point it to my IMAP store, configure about 3-4 settings and be good to go is a godsend. The only thing I miss in that setup, really, is the ability to configure filters from inside the client and subfolders. I know both are possible if I switch to another IMAP server. However I would lose the flexibility of ssh/mutt which comes in handy sometimes. Regardless I cannot imagine doing all of the above without IMAP. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 01:51:01PM -0400, Steve C. Lamb wrote: The only thing I miss in that setup, really, is the ability to configure filters from inside the client and subfolders. I know both are possible if I switch to another IMAP server. However I would lose the flexibility of ssh/mutt which comes in handy sometimes. Regardless I cannot imagine doing all of the above without IMAP. Just to correct myself I just found out that TBird and Dovecot can do subfolders with mbox. One just needs to append a / at the end of the folders when creating them in Thunderbird. This denotes that it is a folder to contain other folders (a directory server side) vs a folder to hold mail (an mbox file). -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/10/08 12:51, Steve C. Lamb wrote: [snip] The only thing I miss in that setup, really, is the ability to configure filters from inside the client and subfolders. I know both are possible if I switch to another IMAP server. However I would lose the flexibility of ssh/mutt which comes in handy sometimes. Regardless I cannot imagine doing all of the above without IMAP. I set up spamassassin and mailfilter as a hook insides postfix. So after postfix gets a mail back from SA, it feeds the mail to mailfilter, which is what does server-side filtering in an easy-to- read language. Of course, it drops mails directly into Maildir folders, so you'd have to tell Dovcot to use Maildir instead of mbox. But that should not be hard. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New York is doomed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkh2t1sACgkQS9HxQb37XmdVHgCgjDsJeYhHw7nuNfKO8zj59z9X IzEAoIok4lSAszTOIwbYqhhz5TxuEFrY =hDOh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/10/08 12:38, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:38:35PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 07/09/08 13:26, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [snip] try a different MUA? This is why IMAP should be the standard mail store, not mboxes in proprietary locations. second that. THe convenience is incredible. Case in point: last month the family and I took a vacation. For several days we were going to be at separate locations, so the kids would be without my laptop (which carries separate accounts for each of them, I am the best dad in the world!). Well, no, because I am. Anyway... Creating individual accounts for everyone on a computer *should* be nothing to crow about. Not doing it should be a reason the Geek Police takes your computer away from you. I installed squirrelmail on my mail server, pointed it at the IMAP server (dovecot) and the problem was solved, in about 5 minutes. The whole family had mail access over the web without mucking around with teaching them how to configure clients (and then clean up afterwards!) and so forth. easy peasy. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New York is doomed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkh2t9kACgkQS9HxQb37XmdRLwCfYo0F944Jymm8K31Dl9ePEAXk GQ4AoNh8K2YFw59Yy23w/NbJYuk2lrsD =8K1/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: IMAP is teh r0x0rz! [was: Re: getting copies of own posted messages; was: Re: ??: Stunned by aptitude.]
Ron Johnson wrote: Of course, it drops mails directly into Maildir folders, so you'd have to tell Dovcot to use Maildir instead of mbox. But that should not be hard. I was talking about the filters from the client more than the subfolders. Dovecot doesn't do sieve. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
