Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Klistvud wrote: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! it could be a bug in the installer: did you tried to do as somebody suggested to you: step by step install? If you've tried with the 32-bit version you can try now using the version for amd 64 or try ubuntu :-) Luigi p.s. i have just installed in my mothers house an ibm T23 pemtium mobile 1gHz + 750 Mb lenny + apache + mysql + drupal + 3 web site - amule sharing (zeitgeist + krisnamurti) 24h :-) on an aliceadsl line - :-)) http://gongolo.dyndns.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne ponedeljek 13 april 2009 ob 22:46:16 je mc3393 napisal(a): Klistvud wrote: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! it could be a bug in the installer: did you tried to do as somebody suggested to you: step by step install? If you've tried with the 32-bit version you can try now using the version for amd 64 or try ubuntu :-) Luigi p.s. i have just installed in my mothers house an ibm T23 pemtium mobile 1gHz + 750 Mb lenny + apache + mysql + drupal + 3 web site - amule sharing (zeitgeist + krisnamurti) 24h :-) on an aliceadsl line - :-)) http://gongolo.dyndns.org Thread solved (sort of). See several threads above, title [Solved... sort of] Lenny overheating. -- Registered Linux User 481801 and proud of it -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
2009/4/11 Klistvud quotati...@aliceadsl.fr: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? I don't have overheating problems on my Acer Aspire 5920. What do you have the laptop sitting on? Table? Can you raise is to get some more airflow under the bottom? I have a length of timber under the back of the laptop to raise the back and provide a better typing angle, doesn't look pretty but is cheap and works. Adrian -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? erno hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On 11 April 2009 10:21:53 you wrote: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! First, to start a new thread, you have to write a new mail. If you hit rply to and change the subject, you are highjacking someone thread. Then, yes, I do have the same problem on Acer aspire 5715z. The way out was to install by small pieces, ie: standard instaal withot desktop, then the desktop by small pieces. Now, its working OK. It shut off on some videos, but not all. Strange. Also, to install, I used a fan to blow fresh air into the laptop. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Klistvud: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Does that mean that the fan doesn't turn on at all? It may help to disable ACPI during installation (boot parameter acpi=off). J. -- I use a Playstation to block out the existence of my partner. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:28:15 je Adrian Levi napisal(a): 2009/4/11 Klistvud quotati...@aliceadsl.fr: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? I don't have overheating problems on my Acer Aspire 5920. What do you have the laptop sitting on? Table? Can you raise is to get some more airflow under the bottom? I have a length of timber under the back of the laptop to raise the back and provide a better typing angle, doesn't look pretty but is cheap and works. Adrian -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? erno hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. Thx for answering. Tried that. And yes, it's on a hard, flat table top. Also tried to set the laptop on its side, vertically - no go. Also tried a big table fan - no go. My impression is, Lenny doesn't scale my CPU; well, I know from experience (happens when my OpenSuSE install - although very rarely - locks up) that when maxed out (2 GHz @ 100% usage), the lapdog (no pun intended) will overheat BY DEFAULT, NO MATTER what I do. I suppose it's just not meant to be used without CPU scaling - by design... Just as car engines won't work without cooling, if you know what I mean. Should perhaps point out that this does NOT happen on ANY other linux distros I've tried, and I've tried many - from Fedora and Mandriva to Damn Small and Ubuntu. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:47:36 je Jochen Schulz napisal(a): Klistvud: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Does that mean that the fan doesn't turn on at all? It may help to disable ACPI during installation (boot parameter acpi=off). J. On the contrary, the fan is at its max from the boot on. Problem is, it's no match for my dual-core Turion when running at its max (2 GHz with 100% CPU usage). I think it's by design, this laptop just isn't designed to be running at 100% CPU usage for more than 5 to 10 minutes in a row. @acpi=off. I came to that idea too, but have one important question: if I install the OS with acpi=off, will I be able to enable acpi later on? You see, I WOULD very much like to use suspend2ram, suspend2disk, CPU scaling/throttling, display dimming and other capabilities that are offered by this laptop. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:32:28 je Thierry Chatelet napisal(a): On 11 April 2009 10:21:53 you wrote: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! First, to start a new thread, you have to write a new mail. If you hit rply to and change the subject, you are highjacking someone thread. Then, yes, I do have the same problem on Acer aspire 5715z. The way out was to install by small pieces, ie: standard instaal withot desktop, then the desktop by small pieces. Now, its working OK. It shut off on some videos, but not all. Strange. Also, to install, I used a fan to blow fresh air into the laptop. Thx for pointing out the thing about starting a new thread. I didn't know that. It wasn't my intention to hijack anything. Won't happen again ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:32:28 je Thierry Chatelet napisal(a): On 11 April 2009 10:21:53 you wrote: Starting the new 5.00 Lenny DVD and selecting (any type of) install, some 5 to 10 minutes into the installation process, my laptop overheats and shuts down. It's a HP Compaq 6715b with an AMD Turion 64 and an ATI Radeon 1200. Needless to say, I have the BIOS option Fan always ON when on AC power set to enabled, but to no avail. Same happens if I set the option to off. Is there ANY way to install Lenny on such laptops? Does it happen with other laptops too? Any viable suggestions welcome! First, to start a new thread, you have to write a new mail. If you hit rply to and change the subject, you are highjacking someone thread. Then, yes, I do have the same problem on Acer aspire 5715z. The way out was to install by small pieces, ie: standard instaal withot desktop, then the desktop by small pieces. Now, its working OK. It shut off on some videos, but not all. Strange. Also, to install, I used a fan to blow fresh air into the laptop. Thx for pointing out the thing about starting a new thread. I didn't know that. It wasn't my intention to hijack anything. Won't happen again ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Klistvud: Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:47:36 je Jochen Schulz napisal(a): Does that mean that the fan doesn't turn on at all? It may help to disable ACPI during installation (boot parameter acpi=off). On the contrary, the fan is at its max from the boot on. Problem is, it's no match for my dual-core Turion when running at its max (2 GHz with 100% CPU usage). I think it's by design, this laptop just isn't designed to be running at 100% CPU usage for more than 5 to 10 minutes in a row. I have trouble believing that. How old is the device? Is there visible dust in the openings behind the fan? If you are out of warranty, you should try opening the case and clean it. Another option might be to manually throttle the CPU during install. You should be able to Alt-Fn to a VT and then look whether there is a directory /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/. If it is there, 'cat scaling_available_governors' should show a governor called powersave. Then just 'echo powersave scaling_governor'. If any of the directories, files or governors is missing, you need to find out which modules to load. Or you could try setting the governor in your BIOS. There are probably options like battery optimized and max performance. @acpi=off. I came to that idea too, but have one important question: if I install the OS with acpi=off, will I be able to enable acpi later on? You see, I WOULD very much like to use suspend2ram, suspend2disk, CPU scaling/throttling, display dimming and other capabilities that are offered by this laptop. Since this is a boot option, it doesn't persist across reboots, so you can always switch back. But that probably doesn't help anyway if your fan already runs at full speed. J. -- When I get home from the supermarket I don't know what to do with all the plastic. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). The only other instance it does happen is when my current OpenSuSE system freezes (stops responding), ramping up the CPU to 100% usage: if I don't switch to a virtual terminal and reboot within, say, 10 minutes, the laptop will shut itself off from overheating. Hence my assumption that the machine simply is not DESIGNED to work at full throttle (100% CPU usage) for any length of time. But I may be wrong, of course. As a sidenote: I've found a thread on internet a while ago stating that you may risk overheating and even frying a laptop if you try installing Windows98 as a virtual machine, since Windows98 does not support the CPU idle instruction. I assume something vaguely similar may be going on here. Modern laptops with fairly powerful CPUs apparently rely on certain subsystems of the OS to effectively prevent overheating. If some of those subsystems don't work as expected, overheating will occur. I find it hard to believe there aren't more laptop users with this sort of problems... Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 13:56:37 je Jochen Schulz napisal(a): Klistvud: Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 10:47:36 je Jochen Schulz napisal(a): Does that mean that the fan doesn't turn on at all? It may help to disable ACPI during installation (boot parameter acpi=off). On the contrary, the fan is at its max from the boot on. Problem is, it's no match for my dual-core Turion when running at its max (2 GHz with 100% CPU usage). I think it's by design, this laptop just isn't designed to be running at 100% CPU usage for more than 5 to 10 minutes in a row. I have trouble believing that. How old is the device? Is there visible dust in the openings behind the fan? If you are out of warranty, you should try opening the case and clean it. Another option might be to manually throttle the CPU during install. You should be able to Alt-Fn to a VT and then look whether there is a directory /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/. If it is there, 'cat scaling_available_governors' should show a governor called powersave. Then just 'echo powersave scaling_governor'. If any of the directories, files or governors is missing, you need to find out which modules to load. Or you could try setting the governor in your BIOS. There are probably options like battery optimized and max performance. @acpi=off. I came to that idea too, but have one important question: if I install the OS with acpi=off, will I be able to enable acpi later on? You see, I WOULD very much like to use suspend2ram, suspend2disk, CPU scaling/throttling, display dimming and other capabilities that are offered by this laptop. Since this is a boot option, it doesn't persist across reboots, so you can always switch back. But that probably doesn't help anyway if your fan already runs at full speed. J. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa ??u??uli?? wrote: The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). The only other instance it does happen is when my current OpenSuSE system freezes (stops responding), ramping up the CPU to 100% usage: if I don't switch to a virtual terminal and reboot within, say, 10 minutes, the laptop will shut itself off from overheating. Hence my assumption that the machine simply is not DESIGNED to work at full throttle (100% CPU usage) for any length of time. But I may be wrong, of course. As a sidenote: I've found a thread on internet a while ago stating that you may risk overheating and even frying a laptop if you try installing Windows98 as a virtual machine, since Windows98 does not support the CPU idle instruction. I assume something vaguely similar may be going on here. Modern laptops with fairly powerful CPUs apparently rely on certain subsystems of the OS to effectively prevent overheating. If some of those subsystems don't work as expected, overheating will occur. I find it hard to believe there aren't more laptop users with this sort of problems... So they install a powerful CPU for the marketers to get you to drool over, then don't provide the necessary cooling so that when you actualluy _use_ the CPU power, the unit fails. I'd call it a design flaw and return the unit. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 15:22:38 je Douglas A. Tutty napisal(a): On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa ??u??uli?? wrote: The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). The only other instance it does happen is when my current OpenSuSE system freezes (stops responding), ramping up the CPU to 100% usage: if I don't switch to a virtual terminal and reboot within, say, 10 minutes, the laptop will shut itself off from overheating. Hence my assumption that the machine simply is not DESIGNED to work at full throttle (100% CPU usage) for any length of time. But I may be wrong, of course. As a sidenote: I've found a thread on internet a while ago stating that you may risk overheating and even frying a laptop if you try installing Windows98 as a virtual machine, since Windows98 does not support the CPU idle instruction. I assume something vaguely similar may be going on here. Modern laptops with fairly powerful CPUs apparently rely on certain subsystems of the OS to effectively prevent overheating. If some of those subsystems don't work as expected, overheating will occur. I find it hard to believe there aren't more laptop users with this sort of problems... So they install a powerful CPU for the marketers to get you to drool over, then don't provide the necessary cooling so that when you actualluy _use_ the CPU power, the unit fails. I'd call it a design flaw and return the unit. Doug. I agree ... to a point. Namely, I've never managed to overheat the unit by just _using_ the CPU. It exclusively happens: 1) during a Debian Lenny installation 2) during a certain type of system lock-up which forces both the CPU frequency and its usage to go to 100%. I'd compare (if I may) the situation with a car having, say, a range of 0 to 7000 RPM, of which only 2000 to 5000 is actually the working range. Now, forcing the car in a very low gear and running it at a constant 7000 RPM, how many minutes until the engine overheats? And, more importantly: how _stupid_ should one be to actually try doing this at home? It's, in my opinion, what's happening here: some runaway process or OS flaw simply ramps up the CPU to a regime that wasn't intended to be used for a prolonged time in the first place. In normal usage, leaving a CPU running at 100% usage is a rare occurence (I'm not talking about CPU frequency here, I'm talking about CPU usage - 100% meaning no idle cycles whatsoever over several minutes or even hours!). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 03:46:31PM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 15:22:38 je Douglas A. Tutty napisal(a): On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa ??u??uli?? wrote: I agree ... to a point. Namely, I've never managed to overheat the unit by just _using_ the CPU. It exclusively happens: 1) during a Debian Lenny installation 2) during a certain type of system lock-up which forces both the CPU frequency and its usage to go to 100%. I'd compare (if I may) the situation with a car having, say, a range of 0 to 7000 RPM, of which only 2000 to 5000 is actually the working range. Now, forcing the car in a very low gear and running it at a constant 7000 RPM, how many minutes until the engine overheats? And, more importantly: how _stupid_ should one be to actually try doing this at home? It's, in my opinion, what's happening here: some runaway process or OS flaw simply ramps up the CPU to a regime that wasn't intended to be used for a prolonged time in the first place. In normal usage, leaving a CPU running at 100% usage is a rare occurence (I'm not talking about CPU frequency here, I'm talking about CPU usage - 100% meaning no idle cycles whatsoever over several minutes or even hours!). What about a big compile? Retouching a movie? For normal usage (other than using iceweasel), I have difficulty getting my dual PII-450 to less than 90% idle, but there are things that will bog it down, and no it doesn't overheat. Then again, its a 2U server, not a laptop. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:58:35 -0400 Douglas A. Tutty dtu...@vianet.ca wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 03:46:31PM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 15:22:38 je Douglas A. Tutty napisal(a): On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa ??u??uli?? wrote: I agree ... to a point. Namely, I've never managed to overheat the unit by just _using_ the CPU. It exclusively happens: 1) during a Debian Lenny installation 2) during a certain type of system lock-up which forces both the CPU frequency and its usage to go to 100%. I'd compare (if I may) the situation with a car having, say, a range of 0 to 7000 RPM, of which only 2000 to 5000 is actually the working range. Now, forcing the car in a very low gear and running it at a constant 7000 RPM, how many minutes until the engine overheats? And, more importantly: how _stupid_ should one be to actually try doing this at home? It's, in my opinion, what's happening here: some runaway process or OS flaw simply ramps up the CPU to a regime that wasn't intended to be used for a prolonged time in the first place. In normal usage, leaving a CPU running at 100% usage is a rare occurence (I'm not talking about CPU frequency here, I'm talking about CPU usage - 100% meaning no idle cycles whatsoever over several minutes or even hours!). What about a big compile? Retouching a movie? I had similar issues w/FreeBSD about 2 years ago. Under compiles or system updates my AMD desktop would freeze up do to over heating. My quick fix at the time was to purchase a 20.00 box fan, remove the PC case, and set the fan right against the PC. Worked like a charm but thankfully it soon became time to upgrade hardware (and OS, btw). Since that time, I never went back to an AMD proc (nor FreeBSD for that matter). -- Best regards, Chris () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments There's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 15:58:35 je Douglas A. Tutty napisal(a): On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 03:46:31PM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne sobota 11 april 2009 ob 15:22:38 je Douglas A. Tutty napisal(a): On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa ??u??uli?? wrote: I agree ... to a point. Namely, I've never managed to overheat the unit by just _using_ the CPU. It exclusively happens: 1) during a Debian Lenny installation 2) during a certain type of system lock-up which forces both the CPU frequency and its usage to go to 100%. I'd compare (if I may) the situation with a car having, say, a range of 0 to 7000 RPM, of which only 2000 to 5000 is actually the working range. Now, forcing the car in a very low gear and running it at a constant 7000 RPM, how many minutes until the engine overheats? And, more importantly: how _stupid_ should one be to actually try doing this at home? It's, in my opinion, what's happening here: some runaway process or OS flaw simply ramps up the CPU to a regime that wasn't intended to be used for a prolonged time in the first place. In normal usage, leaving a CPU running at 100% usage is a rare occurence (I'm not talking about CPU frequency here, I'm talking about CPU usage - 100% meaning no idle cycles whatsoever over several minutes or even hours!). What about a big compile? Retouching a movie? For normal usage (other than using iceweasel), I have difficulty getting my dual PII-450 to less than 90% idle, but there are things that will bog it down, and no it doesn't overheat. Then again, its a 2U server, not a laptop. Doug. A good case in point. And firefox/iceweasel is _definitely_ a CPU hog. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Saturday 11 April 2009 13:26:30 Aleksa Šušulić wrote: The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). The only other instance it does happen is when my current OpenSuSE system freezes (stops responding), ramping up the CPU to 100% usage: if I don't switch to a virtual terminal and reboot within, say, 10 minutes, the laptop will shut itself off from overheating. Hence my assumption that the machine simply is not DESIGNED to work at full throttle (100% CPU usage) for any length of time. But I may be wrong, of course. As a sidenote: I've found a thread on internet a while ago stating that you may risk overheating and even frying a laptop if you try installing Windows98 as a virtual machine, since Windows98 does not support the CPU idle instruction. I assume something vaguely similar may be going on here. Modern laptops with fairly powerful CPUs apparently rely on certain subsystems of the OS to effectively prevent overheating. If some of those subsystems don't work as expected, overheating will occur. I find it hard to believe there aren't more laptop users with this sort of problems... I got my granddaughter an Antec cooling pad (as distinct from a gel one) to cope with am overheating problem in her laptop. It seems to work, especially when the fan is running. HTH Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Aleksa Šušulić: The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. That's not necessary for dust to enter the system. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). Ok. Then I would try to find out how these distributions operate the CPU (clockspeed, governor) and make the Debian installer do the same. I bet it's just the installer anyway. After (if not during) installation, Debian should operate your CPU the same way all other distros do. As a sidenote: I've found a thread on internet a while ago stating that you may risk overheating and even frying a laptop if you try installing Windows98 as a virtual machine, since Windows98 does not support the CPU idle instruction. I assume something vaguely similar may be going on here. The linux kernel in the Debian installer definitely supports the IDLE command. The only parameters of operation that I see are clockspeed and governor. Modern laptops with fairly powerful CPUs apparently rely on certain subsystems of the OS to effectively prevent overheating. If some of those subsystems don't work as expected, overheating will occur. I find it hard to believe there aren't more laptop users with this sort of problems... I really find it hard to believe that HP builds laptops not designed for usage. For me, this would definitely be a reason to return it. J. -- Every day in every way I am getting better and better. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[Solved - sort of...] Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Based on several replies/suggestions set forth in my previous thread and on some imagination, I finally managed to complete the Lenny setup process. What I did: I found a spot in my house directly between two opposing windows and placed the computer there. Lifted the computer on two narrow (but thick) dictionaries (books), so as to free its underside. Opened both windows to create a strong air current flowing directly over and under the laptop. Improved this setup with the aid of a common household fan. Powered the laptop off and waited for it to completely cool off. Opened the lid, powered on and started the Lenny DVD setup procedure. After the initial screens, when no input is needed anymore, I put a small weigh on the lid switch in order to turn off the screen backlight. And now, the MOST CRUCIAL step in any computer troubleshooting: kept fingers crossed all the time! It worked. Now I have a working Debian Gnome desktop and - believe it or not - it actually runs cool as a breeze, it even feels COOLER to touch than my current production system (OpenSuSE 11.1 with KDE). Go figure... Anyway, a huge thanx to all who cared to reply to my initial post, especially seeing that I had inadvertently hijacked another thread... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Solved - sort of...] Lenny overheating, preventing installation
Klistvud writes: It worked. Now I have a working Debian Gnome desktop and - believe it or not - it actually runs cool as a breeze, it even feels COOLER to touch than my current production system (OpenSuSE 11.1 with KDE). Go figure... Sounds like whatever it is that regulates the cpu speed got installed very late in the process. A bug, IMHO. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [Solved - sort of...] Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 18:54 +0200, Klistvud wrote: Based on several replies/suggestions set forth in my previous thread and on some imagination, I finally managed to complete the Lenny setup process. What I did: I found a spot in my house directly between two opposing windows and placed the computer there. Lifted the computer on two narrow (but thick) dictionaries (books), so as to free its underside. Opened both windows to create a strong air current flowing directly over and under the laptop. Improved this setup with the aid of a common household fan. Powered the laptop off and waited for it to completely cool off. Opened the lid, powered on and started the Lenny DVD setup procedure. After the initial screens, when no input is needed anymore, I put a small weigh on the lid switch in order to turn off the screen backlight. And now, the MOST CRUCIAL step in any computer troubleshooting: kept fingers crossed all the time! It worked. Now I have a working Debian Gnome desktop and - believe it or not - it actually runs cool as a breeze, it even feels COOLER to touch than my current production system (OpenSuSE 11.1 with KDE). Go figure... Anyway, a huge thanx to all who cared to reply to my initial post, especially seeing that I had inadvertently hijacked another thread... Even in the cleanest working environment laptops can gather dust. They (literally) suck it out of thin air and the exhaust grilles on many models seem designed to catch as much of it as possible. I had overheating issues on an MSI 1.6Ghz Turion 64 laptop that rarely left its clean hard-top surface. Opening the expansion slot on the bottom, cleaning the fan, and blowing some compressed air through the exhaust grille followed by a careful clean with a damp lint-free cloth reduced the avg CPU temp from around 75-80C down to 45-50C. The actual amount of dust expelled was negligible. Having installed Lenny recently on that same machine, I had no issues. The installer loaded the 'ondemand' cpufreq governor fine. I'd check you don't have any BIOS options set to always run the machine at max CPU speed. Linux tends to do a good job of managing the speed when set to ondemand and generally needs less CPU cycles in day-to-day usage than other OSes. The ondemand governor can very quickly ramp up the CPU speed when it's needed. And purely anecdotally, I seem to find my system runs cooler when it's running a 64-bit OS than an i386 one. I've no evidence of why this might be or even whether its entirely my imagination. YMMV. -- Mark McCorkell markmccork...@tiscali.co.uk At least you can ignore my inanity, I'm stuck with it for life -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Lenny overheating, preventing installation
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 02:26:30PM +0200, Aleksa Šušulić wrote: The laptop is less than a year old and still in warranty. It has never been used in dusty or dirty places. And this overheating only happens with Debian (installing OpenSuSE or Mandriva or Ubuntu or Fedora works a breeze). The only other instance it does happen is when my current OpenSuSE system freezes (stops responding), ramping up the CPU to 100% usage: if I don't switch to a virtual terminal and reboot within, say, 10 minutes, the laptop will shut itself off from overheating. Hence my assumption that the machine simply is not DESIGNED to work at full throttle (100% CPU usage) for any length of time. But I may be wrong, of course. I had similar problems with my previous laptop (some Dell, based on a Pentuim 4). It indeed had poor power management and overheated on e.g. upgrading the TeX packages or on large builds. A cooling board helped to ease the pain but if the CPU worked hard enough, it would eventually shut down. My current laptop is a Dell Latitude D630 with Core 2 Duo T7500, and does not overheat. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
