Re: Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Joey Hess wrote: [...] This would require you also buy a pcmcia adapter for your linux box, since all the networking gear comes pretty much as pcmcia cards. I believe that the access points don't come with a pcmcia card either, so you'll need three in all. Gear list then comes down to (you may find slightly better prices): The access point does not need a pcmcia card. All the electronics for doing wireless stuff is already included. So the list would become: $150+ 1 access point $75 1 pcmcia to ISA or pcmcia to PCI bridge $210 2 pcmcia cards $435 total But the prices I have seen are a bit higher: usually around $250 for the access point and $150 for each pcmcia card. This raises the total cost to $625. Here is an alternative: windows laptop | . | . hub - linux box dsl | . | . friend's box . guy in a van on the street Here you keep the wired link between the linux box and the hub to the windows box, and do not use an access point, instead using Ah-Hoc networking mode between your linux box and the laptop. This requires only 2 pcmcia cards, so the gear is: $75 1 pcmcia to ISA or pcmcia to PCI bridge $140 2 pcmcia cards $215 total Or $375. But there is a problem with this solution: you need 3 available PCI slots. One for the wireless card, one for the ethernet card to the hub, and one for the ethernet card to the dsl. I'm also thinking about getting a wireless setup and this has kind of blocked me for now. But there may be an alternative. The traffic between the dsl and the linux box is likely to be PPP: PPPoE. And some access points can even speak PPP on their wired side. So the idea is to basically connect everything to the hub. dsl | windows ---+ (ppp) || friend's box ---+--(ethernet)-- hub || linux box---+ (ppp) | laptop . . . . . access point . . . . . guy in a van The idea is that the PPP traffic would be relayed from the access point and dsl to the linux box (and all others) and that the linux box would pick it up there. This should be safe in that the 'guy in the van' cannot scan your network since all the access point spits out on your lan is PPP packets. The only security risk is that anyone on the lan can snoop on this traffic, but this may be deemed acceptable. Same for the DSL. But there's a couple of big question marks there: * can an ethernet hub relay PPP traffic? * what about a switch (I have a switch at home) * will the PPP traffic and the IP traffic interfer * in the case of the access point, the access point is expecting the linux box to play the role of a dsl modem. Is there software that can handle that on Linux? * PPP is a point to point protocol. Will it work to have two such devices share just one ethernet segment? (if not we can still put the dsl on it which still saves a PCI slot) Oh, and yes, this is probably much more complex. But you get to play with Linux firewalling, auto-proxying, ... And to complete the picture I would use the wireless network in unencrypted mode so that anyone can access it (and since the 802.11 encryption is relatively useless anyway), but only allow access to the internet (firewalled to prevent too nasty things from happening). Then I would use a VPN between the laptop and the linux box, and would only allow the traffic from this VPN to access the LAN. -- Francois Gouget [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://fgouget.free.fr/ War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
Re: Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
Francois Gouget wrote: The access point does not need a pcmcia card. I thought that some of them used stock wireless cards, like origico cards. This may be well hidden, some people speak of opening the access point to get at the card. But I have never actually seen an access point, just associated with them remotely. :-) But the prices I have seen are a bit higher: usually around $250 for the access point and $150 for each pcmcia card. This raises the total cost to $625. You can get cards for $65 these days -- try www.lanstreet.com for example, I bought an Avaya silver from them last week. Prices are plunging.. The cheapest access point I've heard of is from Linksys and runs something like $150. I don't know if that includes a wireless card. I'm also thinking about getting a wireless setup and this has kind of blocked me for now. But there may be an alternative. The traffic between the dsl and the linux box is likely to be PPP: PPPoE. And some access points can even speak PPP on their wired side. So the idea is to basically connect everything to the hub. Connecting a DSL connection to a hub works fine, if PPPOE is not involved. I've done it. The only downsides are extra network congestion, and the inability to use the linux box as a firewall. I have no idea about the PPP stuff, and it's news to me that any AP's do PPPOE. * can an ethernet hub relay PPP traffic? Tunneled over ssh, certianly. Or maybe PPPOE, I dunno. -- see shy jo
Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
Hi, I'm looking for a wireless ethernet solution for my home network. I've got: 1 Linux box with two ethernet interfaces as my DSL gateway. 1 Windoze PC 1 Laptop (Windoze/Debian) I currently have the Linux gateway connected to hub and the Windoze PC and laptop go into the hub. Ideally, I'm after something like a wireless hub where I can eliminate the ethernet connection between the Linux box and the hub, still use a cable from the hub to the Windoze PC and use a wireless card in the laptop so I can take it anywhere in the house. Failing that I guess it's wireless cards for everything, but then if someone visits with a PC/laptop, they can't plug in... What's available that is supported by Linux? Can you mix and match 802.11(b) gear and expect it to cooperate? Are there any good sites for general reference? I'm finding new vendors daily, I'm after a definitive list... Andrew
Re: Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:20:56PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: :Can you mix and match 802.11(b) gear and expect it to cooperate? Yes, that's the point. Expecting and it actually happenning I've seen a mix of cards talk to Lucent/Oronoco (sp) card, so I'd be optimistic about that. There are (or were) media converters to go from a wired NIC to 802.11 (bring your own card though), I got my hands on one and it didn't quite do what I wanted. My hope was that I could plug this frob into a port on my hub and it would pass through a signal from my laptop. No dice, apparently there's a difference in the standard between an access point and a client node. After much mucking about I did get it attached to my Linux router (parameters need to be passed at module load to set Ad Hoc mode or something), It did finally work, but I had to return the hardware. Not sure where to hunt one of these down or how much they cost, the one I had was from Lucent. a SOHO class wireless hub would be cleaner, and they usually (always) have RJ45 jacks. -Jon
Re: Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
snip | What's available that is supported by Linux? /snip Wireless LAN resources for Linux: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
Re: Looking for a wireless ethernet solution...
Andrew Pollock wrote: I'm looking for a wireless ethernet solution for my home network. Seems a little off-topic for this list, but what the hey. You may want to look for a wireless users group near you, there are some in .au. I've got: 1 Linux box with two ethernet interfaces as my DSL gateway. 1 Windoze PC 1 Laptop (Windoze/Debian) I currently have the Linux gateway connected to hub and the Windoze PC and laptop go into the hub. Ideally, I'm after something like a wireless hub where I can eliminate the ethernet connection between the Linux box and the hub, still use a cable from the hub to the Windoze PC and use a wireless card in the laptop so I can take it anywhere in the house. Failing that I guess it's wireless cards for everything, but then if someone visits with a PC/laptop, they can't plug in... Your wireless hub is what is called an access point. These can be had for $150 (US dollars) and up. I've heard good things about the linksys access points. It's really a lot more complex than a hub, think more like a bridge. This would result in a network like this: --- = wire ... = radio windowspoolside laptop | . | . hub access point . linux box dsl | . | . friend's box . guy in a van on the street Please notice that this allows the guy in the van to snoop on anything the windows box or your laptop or friend do on the internet, unless you encrypt the wireless link. 802.11 includes a broken encryption scheme called WEP that it would be very foolish to rely on. If it matters to you you might want to set up an encrypted tunnel. This would require you also buy a pcmcia adapter for your linux box, since all the networking gear comes pretty much as pcmcia cards. I believe that the access points don't come with a pcmcia card either, so you'll need three in all. Gear list then comes down to (you may find slightly better prices): $150+ 1 access point $75 1 pcmcia to ISA or pcmcia to PCI bridge $2103 pcmcia cards $435total Here is an alternative: windows laptop | . | . hub - linux box dsl | . | . friend's box . guy in a van on the street Here you keep the wired link between the linux box and the hub to the windows box, and do not use an access point, instead using Ah-Hoc networking mode between your linux box and the laptop. This requires only 2 pcmcia cards, so the gear is: $75 1 pcmcia to ISA or pcmcia to PCI bridge $1402 pcmcia cards $215total Downsides are slightly harder setup, and the introduction of you linux box as a point of failure between the lapop and everything else on your network. Upsides are being able to access the net from everything but the laptop without feer of snoopers, the price tag, and not having to deal with a proprietary access pont. What's available that is supported by Linux? Can you mix and match 802.11(b) gear and expect it to cooperate? Are there any good sites for general reference? http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Tools.html has exhaustive detail. The wavelan/orinoco/whatever they're calling it this week cards work well and are the most popular, but there are several other choices as well. They all interoperate decently, Jean's site knows better than I. -- see shy jo
