Re: Looking for right ISP
On Wed, Dec 01, 1999 at 09:39:50PM -0600, Daniel Yang wrote: Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. Any ideas and recommendations? If you just need web hosting, I've been pretty happy with CubeSoft (http://www.csoft.net). You get, among other things, your own full remote shell account. I could (and did) download the source to mutt, compile it, and run it there instead of pine. THIS really surprised me, as I haven't seen it *anywhere* else: you get your own *crontab*. You get unlimited network usage, unlimited HTML files, and 50meg of binary file space for $15/month. They have other packages for less, and other packages for more. They do co-location, too, but you might be just as happy with one of their other packages. (I am not affiliated with CubeSoft other than by way of being a satisfied customer.) -- Larry -- Larry Clapp / hm: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Great Southern Oxymorons: Grits connoisseur
RE: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
So, lots of reasons not to use Outlook. I'm curious, why do you find it to be the best available? What does it offer that, say, Netscape can't do with a good IMAP server? Thanks for the reply ! The best part of Outlook is it's integration. It works with my Pilot, has a PIM which is descent. My only complaint is it can't be minimized to the system tray. For me to try to switch at this point would be very unpleasant. It's lack of configurability is annoying. Otherwise it does a decent job. Overall, it is the best bang for the buck. I have looked at Goldmine and ACT!. Outlook has the best one stop application. Another complaint, as I type this email I check the performance monitor and see Outlook is using just under 10MB of RAM. A little steep for a program that must stay open ... paul -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Paul McHale wrote: The best part of Outlook is it's integration. It works with my Pilot, has a PIM which is descent. Descent was a great game. Alas, it is no PIM. Outlook has [sic] the best one stop application. Thems fightin' words. Prepare for ample flame-age, dude.
Re: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Thursday, December 02, 1999, 2:03:33 PM, Adam wrote: In one standard (I don't know which), = is a special character used for end-of-line and otherwise as an escape character MIME But you're right, Outlook can be made to send in plain text, and your (Paul) emails have been good about this. I disagree considering the email that I replied to of Paul's was HTML. Many other clients seem to have adopted this as well. (Actually, I'm not sure whether NS started this, it's so widespread that it's probably not just NS-originated.) I'd toss that back on the unix clients, maybe even Pine considering it handles both email and newsgroups and References is definitely part of the newsgroups. Quoting the wrong way. Feel free to expand on this one ... I'm not sure what this is referring to. Adam is quoting the right way. I am quoting the right way. Paul and Daniel were replying with everything at the end. That is the wrong way. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+-
RE: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Paul McHale writes: So, lots of reasons not to use Outlook. I'm curious, why do you find it to be the best available? What does it offer that, say, Netscape can't do with a good IMAP server? Thanks for the reply ! The best part of Outlook is it's integration. It works with my Pilot, has a PIM which is descent. My only complaint is it can't be minimized to the system tray. For me to try to switch at this point would be very unpleasant. It's lack of configurability is annoying. Otherwise it does a decent job. Overall, it is the best bang for the buck. I have looked at Goldmine and ACT!. Outlook has the best one stop application. Another complaint, as I type this email I check the performance monitor and see Outlook is using just under 10MB of RAM. A little steep for a program that must stay open ... paul Real men use VM under XEmacs. That's integration. ( This is declared war i think ;-) ) -- __ Felipe Alvarez Harnecker. QlSoftware. Tel. 09.874.60.17 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Potenciado por Ql/Linux http://www.qlsoft.cl __
Re: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Peter S Galbraith wrote: Ironically, your lines are too long. -- Peter Galbraith, research scientist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maurice Lamontagne Institute, Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada P.O. Box 1000, Mont-Joli Qc, G5H 3Z4 Canada. 418-775-0852 FAX: 775-0546 6623'rd GNU/Linux user at the Counter - http://counter.li.org/ Oh no! That's too funny. I have Netscape using its default of 72 characters per line, but it's wrapping at about 85! Okay, I eat (some of) my words. Netscape ain't perfect either. -Adam P.
Looking for right ISP
Hi, everyone. Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. Any ideas and recommendations? thanks Daniel Yang [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for right ISP
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way, someone said... Hi, everyone. Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. You mean run a web server off a modem dial-up account? Not to sound rude, but why would you do a thing like that? Saying that it'd be slow would be a gross understatement. Dial-up accounts aren't meant for servers; they're meant for Joe Generic to surf the web and download porn. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. 1) find one that does co-location 2) if you have cable or xDSL access in your area, ask about running a server through their service. It'd be a hell of a lot faster. -- -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two things that are infinite; Human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Re: Looking for right ISP
Thanks for response. Running a personal web server through a dialup account has been approved just fine. The performance is more acceptable than some highly-hit web sites. What do you mean by co-location? Many DSL providers won't allow users run their servers also. Could you give the names of who does. Thanks Daniel -Original Message- From: Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Daniel Yang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Debian-User debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Looking for right ISP A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way, someone said... Hi, everyone. Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. You mean run a web server off a modem dial-up account? Not to sound rude, but why would you do a thing like that? Saying that it'd be slow would be a gross understatement. Dial-up accounts aren't meant for servers; they're meant for Joe Generic to surf the web and download porn. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. 1) find one that does co-location 2) if you have cable or xDSL access in your area, ask about running a server through their service. It'd be a hell of a lot faster. -- -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two things that are infinite; Human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Looking for right ISP
Actually, most DSL providers WILL allow you to run a web server, just not under personal class DSL. There are many options for business class DSL, and some of them are quite cheap, considering what you get versus Frame Relay, Dedicated ISDN, etc. Regards, Todd On Wed, 01 Dec 1999, Daniel Yang wrote: Thanks for response. Running a personal web server through a dialup account has been approved just fine. The performance is more acceptable than some highly-hit web sites. What do you mean by co-location? Many DSL providers won't allow users run their servers also. Could you give the names of who does. Thanks Daniel -Original Message- From: Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Daniel Yang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Debian-User debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Looking for right ISP A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way, someone said... Hi, everyone. Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. You mean run a web server off a modem dial-up account? Not to sound rude, but why would you do a thing like that? Saying that it'd be slow would be a gross understatement. Dial-up accounts aren't meant for servers; they're meant for Joe Generic to surf the web and download porn. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. 1) find one that does co-location 2) if you have cable or xDSL access in your area, ask about running a server through their service. It'd be a hell of a lot faster. -- -- Phil Brutsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two things that are infinite; Human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Looking for right ISP
Wednesday, December 01, 1999, 8:59:37 PM, Daniel wrote: What do you mean by co-location? Many DSL providers won't allow users run their servers also. Could you give the names of who does. Colocation means the server is located at the ISPs facility. Many DSL providers *do* allow servers to be run off a network connection but not a personal connection. Also cable providers generally have the same policy. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+-
Re: Looking for right ISP
Hello, I have no DSL but a 2 MBit cable modem. It is like the DSL but cheeper. I had payed for an individual account 48 US$ and a dynamic IP-Address. Then I have changed to individual account with a fixed IP-Address but now I must pay 65 US$. Now I am ISP and I use a proffessional account which is 65 US$ too and I have a free downstream traffic 125 MByte. BUT (!!!) for all fraffic which exceed the 125 MByte I mast pay 60 US$ for each 200 MByte. For 267 US$ I can get Cyber Cabel Pro 8 which means 8 fixed IP-Addresses and a free downstream traffic of 1200 MByte. BUT (!!!) for all fraffic which exceed the 1200 MByte I mast pay 60 US$ for each 200 MByte. Ask your ISP's in your city because the DSL and cable modems are comming. My cable modem (Mototola CyberSurf©) works very stable !!! Sometimes I get MORE then the 2 MBit and I have a Down-Stream of 300 kByte/s. Michelle At 22:59 01.12.1999 -0600, you wrote This was the original Message: MKThanks for response. MKRunning a personal web server through a dialup account has been approved MKjust fine. The performance is more acceptable than some highly-hit web MKsites. MKWhat do you mean by co-location? Many DSL providers won't allow users run MKtheir servers also. Could you give the names of who does. MK MKThanks MKDaniel MK The Reply begins not here, it is at the beginning ^
RE: Looking for right ISP
If all you want to do is run a web server, you might consider http://www.addr.com. I stumbled into them the other day. They offer domain and web hosting for under $10. They support almost any web feature imaginable in a high end account for under $15, including databases. Unless you need a dedicated line for another reason, I would recommend something like this and using your regular account as a dialup as it will save you $$$. BTW, they will relay unlimited mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to whatever local server you want to setup. This is nice. They claim they are doing relaying which means they should hold the mail to be forwarded to your local server at whatever static IP. Or you should be able to forward mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Either way, this puts the burden of 24x7 on them. Having said this, I love having a dedicated ISDN line with local servers. I have complete control with no limitations on webspace or email accounts. I know this was off topic, but it may be a desirable solutions ... paul -Original Message-From: Daniel Yang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:40 PMTo: debian-user@lists.debian.orgSubject: Looking for right ISP Hi, everyone. Eventually, I made my web server and my own domain (www.mydomain.com) running, but my ISP, mindspring told me that I am not allowed to run a web server through a dialup account and they can't do anything for me if I want to run my own server. Then I have to look for a new ISP who provides such service and not expensively. Any ideas and recommendations? thanks Daniel Yang [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Wednesday, December 01, 1999, 11:45:56 PM, Paul wrote: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 OK, pardon me for being a bit peeved but you and Daniel are both posting with MS *CRAP* into a Linux forum, using HTML and quoting the completely wrong way. Cut it out!!! I mean, geez, I'm using a Windows email client but at least I have the decency to not post in HTML, quote properly and have even gone so far as to have authors include References and In-Reply-To headers so it doesn't break threads even though their products don't utilize them! Sheesh. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+-
RE: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Steve, I agree that I am using MS Outlook. I think it is the best program available for my use. I don't understand your difficulty. I forwarded the message to my linux server and opened it with mutt. It came across in plain text. I double checked the outlook transmit message settings and they are set to plain text ! Is anyone else noticing this problem of my message posting in HTML ??? As far as breaking the thread, what are refering to? Quoting the wrong way. Feel free to expand on this one ... What e-mail client are you using ? paul -Original Message- From: Steve Lamb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 4:45 AM To: Paul McHale Cc: Daniel Yang; debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: OT: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP) Importance: Low Wednesday, December 01, 1999, 11:45:56 PM, Paul wrote: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 OK, pardon me for being a bit peeved but you and Daniel are both posting with MS *CRAP* into a Linux forum, using HTML and quoting the completely wrong way. Cut it out!!! I mean, geez, I'm using a Windows email client but at least I have the decency to not post in HTML, quote properly and have even gone so far as to have authors include References and In-Reply-To headers so it doesn't break threads even though their products don't utilize them! Sheesh. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+ - -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Looking for right ISP
What do you mean by co-location? Many DSL providers won't allow users run their servers also. Could you give the names of who does. I believe that flashcom.com will allow a single server to be run from (some of) their dsl accounts, perhaps with a small extra monthly fee. They do have more costly accounts that allow multiple servers to be run. (And they probably look the other way if your server dosn't make a pig of itself). = Amateur Radio, when all else fails! http://www.qsl.net/wa2mze Debian Gnu Linux, Live Free or . __ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: WHAT THE F**K--- (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Quoting Paul McHale ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I agree that I am using MS Outlook. I think it is the best program available for my use. I don't understand your difficulty. I forwarded the message to my linux server and opened it with mutt. It came across in plain text. I double checked the outlook transmit message settings and they are set to plain text ! I hadn't noticed you were posting in html until Steve pointed it out in no uncertain terms. But that's because I'm using mutt which displays the text/plain copy and ignores the text/html because it noticed multipart/alternative (which means only one need be shown). If I type v I get a menu of attachments which I can choose manually. Although I am surrounded by Outlook-droids, I have no idea whether your setting means to send plain text *as well* rather than send plain text *only*. Is anyone else noticing this problem of my message posting in HTML ??? As far as breaking the thread, what are refering to? Quoting the wrong way. Feel free to expand on this one ... It *is* horrible. The message you are replying to is added to the end of your new contribution. This makes it impossible to comment on a message in a paragraph by paragraph way (as I'm doing). It's like trying to conduct a family conversation when you're not allowed to interrupt father until he's finished a one-hour lecture. It also encourages people to return the entire thread so far when all they're adding is a one-line comment (not that I'm accusing you of this). What e-mail client are you using ? You see, as I've already told you which client I use, I would delete that line and not make this comment, rather than sending it all back to you as quotation at the end of my message. And I would delete all this stuff: paul -Original Message- From: Steve Lamb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 4:45 AM To: Paul McHale Cc: Daniel Yang; debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: OT: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP) Importance: Low etc. etc. including signatures, multiple copies of the Unsubscribe? lines. Mind you, there are people who *love* this stuff, who insist that every message should contain the full reverse-order history of the entire thread, and get religious about it. Steve Lamb has a different way of putting all this, and I know people who wouldn't see his posting because the !!! in the Subject header sends it straight into the bit bucket. Cheers, -- Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 1908 653 739 Fax: +44 1908 655 151 Snail: David Wright, Earth Science Dept., Milton Keynes, England, MK7 6AA Disclaimer: These addresses are only for reaching me, and do not signify official stationery. Views expressed here are either my own or plagiarised.
Re: WHAT THE F**K--- (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 05:11:37AM -0500, Paul McHale wrote: I agree that I am using MS Outlook. I think it is the best program available for my use. I don't understand your difficulty. I forwarded the message to my linux server and opened it with mutt. It came across in plain text. I double checked the outlook transmit message settings and they are set to plain text ! Is anyone else noticing this problem of my message posting in HTML ??? Mutt seems to prefer the plain text over the html version of your message. Pine, on the other hand, seems to prefer the html version. As far as breaking the thread, what are refering to? Mutt has support for threads. That means that replies are placed beneath the parent message, according to the In-Reply-To and References headers. The thread display looks something like this: 1008 Dec 01 Daniel Yang ( 57) Looking for right ISP 1009 Dec 01 Phil Brutsche ( 31) |- 1010 Dec 01 Daniel Yang ( 55) |* 1011 Dec 02 Todd Suess ( 71) | |- 1012 Dec 01 Steve Lamb ( 18) | `- 1013 Dec 02 Michelle Konzac ( 44) |* 1014 Dec 02 Kenneth Scharf ( 30) |* 1015 Dec 02 Paul McHale ( 140) `- 1016 Dec 02 Steve Lamb ( 22) `-OT: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re 1017 Dec 02 Paul McHale ( 59) `-RE: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: 1018 Dec 02 David Wright( 76) `-Re: WHAT THE F**K--- (Was Notice how some of the messages are at the left margin with a * character in the middle of the arrow (numbers 1010, 1013, and 1014). This happens when the mailer doesn't include those headers, so mutt has to guess that the message is a reply, and guess where in the threading structure to place it (a configuration option will tell mutt not to do this guessing, and to treat it as a new thread). Note that your posts aren't breaking the thread, contrary to what Steve claimed. Quoting the wrong way. Feel free to expand on this one ... The style of quoting used in this message, as opposed to that in your message. It makes replying work much better. -- finger for GPG public key. 29 Nov 1999 - new email address added to gpg key pgpPFgLYoZtuL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
Paul McHale wrote: Steve, I agree that I am using MS Outlook. I think it is the best program available for my use. I don't understand your difficulty. I forwarded the message to my linux server and opened it with mutt. It came across in plain text. I double checked the outlook transmit message settings and they are set to plain text ! Is anyone else noticing this problem of my message posting in HTML ??? There are two problems with MS Outlook, one regarding breaking the thread (which I'll return to in a moment), one regarding non-standard HTML. On non-standard HTML, Outlook uses nonstandard font size tags which look like font size=3D12 presumably because it is mixing standards. In one standard (I don't know which), = is a special character used for end-of-line and otherwise as an escape character, so representing = requires =3D (since 3D is hex for the ASCII of =). The other standard is HTML. This font size tag, a mixture of the two, is bad HTML, and in Netscape Mail it causes the HTML text to be rendered in the smallest font available! Hence it is really annoying to us Netscape Mail users, and probably other HTML and (perhaps) rich text clients. Outlook also is filled with all kinds of superfluous DIV and SPAN and FONT tags, which make it very difficult to edit when quoting in Netscape. NS uses very few formatting commands, so the reader client's preferences in font face, size, color, etc. are respected unless deliberately overridden by the author. I've found it to be as lean as if I were writing the HTML myself. But others have disagreed with me about Netscape editor, so I'll stop there. Outlook also defaults to sending email in both plain text and HTML, so emails are twice as big as they should be. Netscape defaults to plain text (even if you compose in the HTML editor) unless there are HTML features like tables, images, bulleted lists, etc, in which case it asks the user whether to send in plain text, HTML or both. A much more intelligent default IMHO. But you're right, Outlook can be made to send in plain text, and your (Paul) emails have been good about this. Daniel's first post was in both plain text and HTML, so it was ugly in Netscape, and twice as big as it needed to be. Many other posts to this list have this problem. As far as breaking the thread, what are refering to? Netscape mail from the beginning borrowed a convention from newsgroups such that a reply gives the message ID of the original message, and all previous references as well. This allows Debian's archiving system (and other email clients who recieve the message) to thread the messages very nicely, so one can tell which messages are in reply to which others in a thread, ordering by reply rather than by date. Many other clients seem to have adopted this as well. (Actually, I'm not sure whether NS started this, it's so widespread that it's probably not just NS-originated.) Clients which don't use this convention cannot be properly thread in email clients or in the Debian archives. Quoting the wrong way. Feel free to expand on this one ... I'm not sure what this is referring to. So, lots of reasons not to use Outlook. I'm curious, why do you find it to be the best available? What does it offer that, say, Netscape can't do with a good IMAP server? Zeen, -Adam P.
Re: WHAT THE F**K!!! (Was: Re: Looking for right ISP)
I always heard that outlook was a piece of shit, based on mostly the fact that it is so prone to virus spreading. Sure there may be ways around this but the average user isn't going to know about them. My first(and so far, only) bad experience with Outlook was after a server upgrade(I saw hundreds of similar posts to newsgroups) Sendmail by default I believe sends a rather lengthy anti spam warning when a user connects(its about 30-40 lines long?) After the mail server changeover, EXISTING outlook (express/standard/2000) clients could no longer connect to send mail, but NEW clients(that were fresh installs) had no problem. After 5 hours of debugging it with another admin(who also uses outlook) we got outlook to log what it was doing to a file, and it was NOT FOLLOWING SMTP STANDARDS! A client is supposed to say hello, and the server replies and the client begins the mail stuff, well outlook was saying hello right at initial connection (before the spam notice was sent) and just started dumping the mail before the SMTP server(sendmail 8.9.2 at the time) told it it was ok to go ahead and start! Sendmail got all this extra crap it was not expecting and rejected the send. Talk about a rude client! The work around was to turn off the SPAM notice/warning (This only happened on outlook users, other clients like Eudora and netscape had no problems with the changeover) the other admin filed a bug report with MS(he knows lots of people there) so the problem may be fixed now..but DAMN what a headache. another incident i went to a client's site to installation of a security system and they were fighting viruses all day long and guess what! using NT and exchange and outlook. I wasn't involved in the cleanup other then pointing out to their admins(about as bright as my cat == typical NT admin?) that their virus scanners were 2 years old and assisted them in a download of a newer version. i have, do, and always will strongly reccomend against using outlook no matter what enviornment you may work in. but thats me. nate (i use pine/netscape and eudora when on a win* platform) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]-- Vice President Network Operations http://www.firetrail.com/ Firetrail Internet Services Limited http://www.aphroland.org/ Everett, WA 425-348-7336http://www.linuxpowered.net/ Powered By:http://comedy.aphroland.org/ Debian 2.1 Linux 2.0.36 SMPhttp://yahoo.aphroland.org/ -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]-- 3:16pm up 105 days, 2:57, 1 user, load average: 1.84, 1.68, 1.61
