Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
Am Die, 2002-02-12 um 11.11 schrieb Chris Halls: Subject: apt-show-versions apt-show-versions is a script which eases maintenance of mixed stable/testing or testing/unstable systems. While beeing able to update the packages from your *main* distribution with apt-get upgrade it is quite difficult to do the same for the *not-main* packages. While you can use the pinning feature of apt if these are only a few it is quite annoying to put all the package names in apt/preferences which should be pinned. Like in one of my installation where I have 247 packages from stable and 229 from testing. [...] apt-get install `apt-show-versions -u -b | fgrep unstable` to upgrade all unstable packages to their newest versions. Christoph, have you tried APT::Default-Release? Does that not do this job automatically? (I'm not saying apt-show-versions is not useful; I'm just curious, and apt-show-versions does far more than just the job of tracking both testing and unstable versions). Hmm. A quick test showed me, that it might do what I want. I will have a further look at it later. Christoph
Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
Donald - Thanks! :)I hope you don't mind me forwarding this to Chris and the list. (If I have correctly interpreted your disposition, I suspect you don't mind.) He did some interesting tests that IIRC he just sent to everyone, so IIRC you got a copy from him too. I thought he might find your comments informative. See also other comments questions below. (I'd suggest you send your answers to the list, so everyone can benefit from them. :) ) Chris - I thought you might find some of this info useful. --- Donald R. Spoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tluxt wrote: == Re: How pull packages from unstable to a Woody system? From: Donald R. Spoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] The subject of pinning has been discussed several times late last year ... OOPS! This next paragraph should have been #7. 6. If you want to install a SPECIFIC package from unstable just run apt-get -t unstable install package name. In the case of installing kghostview from unstable the command would be apt-get -t unstable install kghostview. There are other methods and other recommended Pin-Priority numbers discussed in the previously mentioned messages. You might want to review them to see all your options. All I can say is this particular method has worked quite well for me during the last 2-3 months. Donald: Does this do the apt-get upgrade properly? == Yes. It will upgrade and EXISING package on your system plus any dependencies. IT WILL NOT INSTALL A PACKAGE THAT ISN'T ALREADY INSTALLED! There is one 'caveat...see the NOTE below. Hmm. So, that looks problematic, if (as I guess I am) this howto is being written for someone not highly familiar with using the apt tools. What do you suggest be done for that case (or is that just a hopeless case, might as well not bother to write a howto for such a person)? NOTE: I have occasionally had some problems with a few KDE packages that have made it into testing but still depended on some external packages remaining in unstable. These would not install untill I installed the required dependencies from unstable. What is the kind of error message you got that let you know there was such a problem? Then, how did you solve it? The current pinning system will treat the source of a package being upgraded as the source for meeting any dependencies. As long as you keep your KDE stuff current from unstable then you should be OK on this account. I have noticed some drift over time in this regard, and you have to keep on top of it. In this context, please define what you mean by 'drift'. How does one 'keep on top of it'? IMHO, there is no way you will ever get to where you want to be for the following reasons: What do you mean by 'where you want to be'? If you are right, then what would you suggest is the plan of action that should be followed? 1. Woody (testing) is undergoing CONSTANT changes! I recently did an apt-get dist-upgrade from Potato to Woody and it installed about 200+ new packages. When I do my almost daily apt-get upgrade on my system, I have noticed anywhere from 20 to 60 new packages being installed. That is almost EVERY DAY (most certainly EVERY WEEK), and is a SIGNIFICANT portion of the ENTIRE INSTALL!! There is still a LOT of tweaking going on. This includes the apt-get program! The bottom line is anything you put into your HOWTO will be outdated quite soon. This situation will NOT change due to the basic philosophy of Debian development. Woody, despite having a name, IS NOT THE OFFICIAL RELEASE yet, and will have rough edges. 2. A good understanding of just how the APT series of packages work and how the relate to dpkg and dselect will solve most install problems. It does some things very well, but it certainly DOESN'T cover every possibility that comes up. If you limit your HOWTO to just apt-get procedures, then you are doing the equivalent of tying one arm behind your back. I frequently find myself going into dselect to get some info on what has caused a hang or other problem with an install. Over the years, I have gathered a bag of tricks to try when a package doesn't want to install properly. Each program has its strong points and MUST be viewed as a suite of tools, rather than as a replacement or alternative. IMHO, a HOWTO on APT and how to use it would be a much more useful project. If you understand APT, DPKG, DSELECT, then you have to tools to install almost any combination of packages from various Debian trees you choose! I recently found this excellentd ocument, which you might like to view. :) APT HOWTO http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html 3. Have you defined your target audience? I cannot figure this out. Also, are you prepared to
Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:11:31 -0800 (PST) tluxt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gustavo: A definitive version of this topic should also probably be put into the APT HowTo: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html You could probably do a whole chapter on pinning APT::Default-Release and how to pull packages, and apt-get upgrade properly, replacing your current section 3.7. :) ] sure, I've been thinking about rewriting that mess for some time now, all mails belonging to this thread were already saved on my APT-HOWTO folder to serve as reference for my rewrite ;) you're doing a good work, thanks... btw, from what I've read 'till now, I think the easier -- and that will work better -- way of doing what you want is using APT::Default-Release testing; and installing explicitly unstable packages... no messing with difficult to understand priorities and stuff []s! -- Gustavo Noronha Silva - kov http://www.metainfo.org/kov *-* -+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+-+ | .''`. | Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org | | : :' : + Debian BR...: http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br+ | `. `'` + Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? + | `-| A: Upstream's decision. -- hmh | *-* -+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+-+
Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
I delayed my daily 'fix' of new packages :) to experiment a little with pinning, Default-Release, apt-get upgrade and apt-show-versions. I'm posting my interpretation of the findings - please speak up if you know better! In summary, it seems that using pinning and Default-Release gives you different behaviour for apt-get upgrade [*]: - If you pin to testing (using lines in /etc/apt/preferences), 'apt-get upgrade' will only upgrade those packages which are newer in testing. If you have installed something manually from unstable, that version will stay the same on your system until a newer version has propogated into testing. - If you select APT::Default-Release testing; in /etc/apt/apt.conf, 'apt-get upgrade' will also upgrade unstable versions of packages. Newly selected packages will be installed from testing (if they are available). Question: If a package that was being tracked in unstable makes it into testing, does it now get tracked in testing? On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 07:11:31PM -0800, tluxt wrote: I am particularly concerned about ensuring apt-get upgrade works properly, and simply - ie, not having extra-normal things to do for the person doing the upgrade. My systems have used the pinning method up until now, with me manually upgrading unstable versions. I'll switch to APT::Default-Release and see how it behaves. [Note: On my several months old Woody install, in /etc/apt I have no file called apt.conf . I do have there a directory apt.conf.d that has one file in it: 70debconf In this case, what I exactly need to do is create the file /etc/apt/apt.conf, and put in it only the following line, correct? APT::Default-Release testing;] Yes, that's right. === From: Christoph Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: apt-show-versions apt-show-versions is a script which eases maintenance of mixed stable/testing or testing/unstable systems. While beeing able to update the packages from your *main* distribution with apt-get upgrade it is quite difficult to do the same for the *not-main* packages. While you can use the pinning feature of apt if these are only a few it is quite annoying to put all the package names in apt/preferences which should be pinned. Like in one of my installation where I have 247 packages from stable and 229 from testing. [...] apt-get install `apt-show-versions -u -b | fgrep unstable` to upgrade all unstable packages to their newest versions. Christoph, have you tried APT::Default-Release? Does that not do this job automatically? (I'm not saying apt-show-versions is not useful; I'm just curious, and apt-show-versions does far more than just the job of tracking both testing and unstable versions). HTH, Chris - [*] If you're interested in how I got this result: I used my workstation which has a mixture of testing and unstable packages installed. I ran apt-get update, and for each of the senarios I ran: # apt-get -s upgrade 1. With pinning in /etc/apt/preferences: 11 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. - The packages to be upgraded were all in testing. The unstable packages I had installed were to be left alone. 2. With no pinning, APT::Default-Release set to testing: 45 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded. - All of the testing packages were listed again, plus other packages where I had installed an unstable version and there was a new version available in unstable. 3. With no pinning, APT::Default-Release set to unstable or not present at all: 116 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded. - This time all packages would have been upgraded to their latest unstable version, regardless of whether I had the testing or unstable version installed. -- Chris Halls | Frankfurt, Germany
Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
On Tuesday 12 Feb 2002 3:11 am, tluxt wrote: From the following references section, it seems that the immediately following procedure might do this, but I have some concerns: /etc/apt/apt.conf gets the following line: APT::Default-Release testing; [Note: On my several months old Woody install, in /etc/apt I have no file called apt.conf . /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/apt.conf is a good starting point /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz shows many more options
Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
I'm trying to put together a howto, and could use your input. I've assembled a procedure, and some references- do you have any suggestions? My persoal goal is to have the procedure to run a Woody system, with all the latest KDE packages pulled from Sid. But, this procedure could be used for many packages other than KDE. The 1st level goal here is to have a way to: install a Woody system set up some method, such as APT::Default-Release testing; or pinning Use that method to pull the kde metapackage, kde, from unstable Have a way to do apt-get update; apt-get upgrade that will get everything upgraded from their proper locations, ie: upgrade all the installed depended kde packages from unstable, as appropriate upgrade any other woody packages from woody, as appropriate What is the best, or at least very good, (simple to comprehend, setup, do; as powerful as necessary; reliable) way to do this? I am particularly concerned about ensuring apt-get upgrade works properly, and simply - ie, not having extra-normal things to do for the person doing the upgrade. From the following references section, it seems that the immediately following procedure might do this, but I have some concerns: /etc/apt/apt.conf gets the following line: APT::Default-Release testing; [Note: On my several months old Woody install, in /etc/apt I have no file called apt.conf . I do have there a directory apt.conf.d that has one file in it: 70debconf In this case, what I exactly need to do is create the file /etc/apt/apt.conf, and put in it only the following line, correct? APT::Default-Release testing;] And, to install a package do: apt-get install package/unstable [in my case: apt-get install kde/unstable] is a very simple way to get the correct packages installed. My main as yet unanswered concern is: Will that also do the upgrade of packages properly? (The asnwer to that was not clear to me. The question may have been triggered by comments from Chris Halls, below.) That's my main question. What's the answer? [The Mixing Debian releases the easy way HowTo will be a component of my KDE-Debian HowTo for KDE2 Debian3=Woody X86. Recent version here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/2002/debian-kde-200202/msg00097.html Gustavo: A definitive version of this topic should also probably be put into the APT HowTo: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html You could probably do a whole chapter on pinning APT::Default-Release and how to pull packages, and apt-get upgrade properly, replacing your current section 3.7. :) ] Robert Donald: Please see my questions to you, below. References (these are slightly edited, mostly deletions for conciseness): == == From: Grant Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pinning Unstable: Woody use of Evolution For all those that are using Woody but would like to sometimes run a few packages from Sid, this fix works like a charm. /etc/apt/preferences Package: * Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 50 /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free What will these lines do? Pinning the priority of unstable to 50 makes it so that these packages are never automatically selected for upgrade. The sources.list line is needed so that packages that are not in woody are installed with `apt-get evolution` (for example). Dependencies are handled correctly and the system remains on Woody packages with the exceptions of the explicitly loaded ones. === From: Christoph Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: apt-show-versions apt-show-versions is a script which eases maintenance of mixed stable/testing or testing/unstable systems. While beeing able to update the packages from your *main* distribution with apt-get upgrade it is quite difficult to do the same for the *not-main* packages. While you can use the pinning feature of apt if these are only a few it is quite annoying to put all the package names in apt/preferences which should be pinned. Like in one of my installation where I have 247 packages from stable and 229 from testing. Try apt-show-versions | fgrep /testing | wc to see how many packages you have from testing or apt-show-versions -u to see a list of packages which are upgradeable either to stable or testing or unstable or apt-get install `apt-show-versions -u -b | fgrep unstable` to upgrade all unstable packages to their newest versions. == From: Robert McQueen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mixing Debian releases the easy way As well as the more
Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
--- tluxt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am particularly concerned about ensuring apt-get upgrade works properly, and simply - ie, not having extra-normal things to do for the person doing the upgrade. From the following references section, it seems that the immediately following procedure might do this, but I have some concerns: /etc/apt/apt.conf gets the following line: APT::Default-Release testing; ... And, to install a package do: apt-get install package/unstable [in my case: apt-get install kde/unstable] is a very simple way to get the correct packages installed. My main as yet unanswered concern is: Will that also do the upgrade of packages properly? I could have been clearer there. I might better have said: Will the above procedure allow upgrades to be done properly by doing: apt-get update apt-get upgrade [Also: will apt (or other) programs that show what programs are installed on the system work properly with the above procedure?] That's my main question. What's the answer? __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com
