Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Dan Ritter]

Jeremy Nicoll wrote: 
> I keep hoping that my next laptop will have a backlit
> keyboard but very often the machines I choose (for
> other higher-priority criteria) don't have them.
> 
> I've also tried a few clip-on mini lights (plugged into a
> spare USB socket) but many such lights come with poor
> quality clips &/ cables that are too short to reach the
> USB socket of choice (or indeed any USB socket). 

IKEA sells the Jansjo USB LED, $7.99, which has about
20cm of gooseneck which will hold its shape quite well in any
shape except straight out sideways -- then it will droop.

-dsr-

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Thu, 21 Dec 2023, at 13:36, songbird wrote:

> i've
> already worn some of letters off the keys.  :(  but, well, i got
> it on sale for about $30 so i really can't complain.

For years I've used Dymo labels to replace keyboard legends.
(Not the 1960s/1970s thick 3d labels, but 'printed' ones).  After
sticking individual letters onto keytops (usually using tweezers
to position them as accurately as possible) I put mutiple coats
of clear nail varnish over them - which seems to lengthen their
life & help to hold down the edges of the stickers.

When they eventually need replaced it's sometimes difficult 
to get a Dymo letter off a key, needing something sharp (eg
a needle or scalpel) to lift the sticky label off the key.

Then I clean the key with isopropyl alcohol (as used eg for
cleaning heads on tape recorders), & make & attach a new
label.

Mostly I use Dymo media corresponding to the colour 
scheme of the original keyboard, but - eg on a laptop
which has white legends on black keys - I've replaced
some legends with "black print on yellow tape" labels
which are much easier to see and provide me with a
few visual landmarks on the keyboard ... which helps me
when I don't yet quite need to put a room light on.

I keep hoping that my next laptop will have a backlit
keyboard but very often the machines I choose (for
other higher-priority criteria) don't have them.

I've also tried a few clip-on mini lights (plugged into a
spare USB socket) but many such lights come with poor
quality clips &/ cables that are too short to reach the
USB socket of choice (or indeed any USB socket). 

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[songbird]

James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> On 12/20/23 11:30 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
>> Until about a year ago my experience with Logitech mice had been
>> good.  Those that had died normally did so after falling off a desk,
>> which I don't really see as a manufacturing fault.
>> 
>> But since then several I've bought have all failed with the problem of
>> LMB sending double-clicks when pressed once.  That includes two
>> separate "Pebble" mice.
>
> I've also been sticking with Logitech mice for many years. Specifically, 
> M100/B100/M110, 
>
> But my brand-loyalty has been eroding, because they've been cheapening 
> their product. In particular, it wasn't that long ago that, without 
> changing the model number, or making any public announcement, they 
> pulled support for PS/2 (and therefore for passive PS/2 adapters) from 
> what had been, up until then, dual-mode mice. Not a major problem for 
> Linux, running on current hardware, but a *very* major problem for me, 
> because I also run DOS (IBM PC/DOS 2000, with no WinDoze whatsoever) on 
> antique hardware.
>
> Fortunately, I live and work near what can only be described as a 
> computer junk shop, where finding antique hardware, some of it still 
> new-in-box, is not terribly difficult.
>
> But I can definitely confirm that Logitech is NOT making mice like they 
> used to.

  true, my M325 is doing the quick double clicks recently.  :(

  i'd love a converted Model M with a long (12ft) USB cable.
but i won't buy a new keyboard that is all plastic because 
they just bend too much and then fail.


> If only Unicomp made a mouse as good as their keyboards . . . .

  sadly i have two of them which failed too soon because they
don't have a sold base.  when used as lapkeyboards they stopped
sending the correct signals.  i switched to a Logitech K840 
which does have a solid base and it works, but i hate how stiff
it feels and it's been fading somewhat on me recently and needing
repeat key presses at some times to get a key to register.  i've
already worn some of letters off the keys.  :(  but, well, i got
it on sale for about $30 so i really can't complain.

  i won't buy any more keyboards from them because it costs
as much to fix them as it does to buy a new one.  i haven't
figured out how to fix them myself, but it would be nice to
see any vids where someone takes one apart and puts one back
together again and it actually works (note: i haven't looked 
recently).


  songbird

[SOLVED?] Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 19, 2023, 16:36 by to...@tuxteam.de:

> Here's someone offering a patch for xserver-xorg-input-evdev:
>
>  https://blog.guntram.de/?p=16
>
> and this is someone reporting on how to build for Ubuntu:
>
>  
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/321816/mouse-sometimes-doubleclicks-when-i-click-once
>
> so yes, it seems you are not alone :-)
>


Will mark it as SOLVED in case if the solution that has worked for me ( 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/12/msg01048.html ) doesn't work for 
someone.
Regards,

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 12/20/23 1:06 PM, Cindy Sue Causey wrote:

I finally switched tactics last year and tried gaming mice. I thought
about the way they're used. It's comparable to how much I click for
emails and research related to ongoing Life.. shtuff.


The main reason why I avoid gaming mice is because they tend to be 
loaded down with unnecessary bells and whistles.


Again, if only Unicomp offered mice that were built like their 
keyboards. . . .


--
JHHL

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 12/19/23, local10  wrote:
> Dec 19, 2023, 15:30 by hfollm...@itcfollmann.com:
>
>> I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the
>> ISS
>> station or similar?
>
> No, nothing like that.
>
>> Why would you go down this rabbit hole when the right
>> thing is to replace faulty hardware especially when it is cheap hardware?
>
> I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail with the
> same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps there was a way to
> fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12 months.

Same has been my experience for over two decades. I used to feel
blessed if they would last six months. I finally switched tactics last
year and tried gaming mice. I thought about the way they're used. It's
comparable to how much I click for emails and research related to
ongoing Life.. shtuff.

If I can help it, I'll never buy a "regular" mouse again. I'm still
poverty level so I buy bottom dollar electronics, used and otherwise.
If you can find "cheap" new gaming mice, the price kind of evens out
with buying multiple regular mice during a specific time period. That
means it's longer in between those times of frustration when they fizz
out always at just the wrong time.

In thinking more on it, I've tripped into a couple sales where the
alleged "gaming" mouse was the price of regular ones. Yeah, in that
case it might be purely about the appearance of gaming and not the
mechanics, but those mice still lasted longer so something was
thankfully also tougher under the hood, maybe just enough to satisfy
average (novice) consumers' expectations. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 12/20/23 11:30 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:

Until about a year ago my experience with Logitech mice had been
good.  Those that had died normally did so after falling off a desk,
which I don't really see as a manufacturing fault.

But since then several I've bought have all failed with the problem of
LMB sending double-clicks when pressed once.  That includes two
separate "Pebble" mice.


I've also been sticking with Logitech mice for many years. Specifically, 
M100/B100/M110, 


But my brand-loyalty has been eroding, because they've been cheapening 
their product. In particular, it wasn't that long ago that, without 
changing the model number, or making any public announcement, they 
pulled support for PS/2 (and therefore for passive PS/2 adapters) from 
what had been, up until then, dual-mode mice. Not a major problem for 
Linux, running on current hardware, but a *very* major problem for me, 
because I also run DOS (IBM PC/DOS 2000, with no WinDoze whatsoever) on 
antique hardware.


Fortunately, I live and work near what can only be described as a 
computer junk shop, where finding antique hardware, some of it still 
new-in-box, is not terribly difficult.


But I can definitely confirm that Logitech is NOT making mice like they 
used to.


If only Unicomp made a mouse as good as their keyboards . . . .

--
James H. H. Lampert

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2023, at 04:25, Charles Curley wrote:

> I suggest you buy a different rodent. I bought three Logitech rodents
> some years ago on sale for $10 each. All three still work quite well.

Until about a year ago my experience with Logitech mice had been
good.  Those that had died normally did so after falling off a desk,
which I don't really see as a manufacturing fault.

But since then several I've bought have all failed with the problem of
LMB sending double-clicks when pressed once.  That includes two 
separate "Pebble" mice.

I read through a LOT of reviews on amazon uk, for cheap & pricey
Logitech mice & discovered lots of people had similar experiences
- that recent products don't seem to have the quality that older 
ones had.

(In my case I need wireless optical mice, as they're often used running
on a bed sheet under a duvet, with the laptop on an overbed table.)


For now I'm using an Anker vertical mouse, which has lasted longer
than the previous Logitech mice.  It too has fallen to the floor a few
times, but I have a theory that its odd body shape means that it 
tends to hit the floor then roll over (like a landing paratrooper)
which damages it less than traditionally shaped rodents).

As a side issue, the vertical form-factor - once I got used to it - 
has proved more comfortable for use when sitting up in bed,
using the mouse approx half-way between my bum & knee,
either on top of or underneath the duvet.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 20, 2023, 15:22 by noloa...@gmail.com:

> And here's the bug report: <> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413502> >
>


I was following this bug but it didn't help me, probably because the system 
sees it as two single clicks that happen quickly one after another, not a 
double click.

Regards,

[SOLVED] Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 20, 2023, 14:57 by anssi.sa...@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi:

> BTW, you might be able to use working switches from your other mice as
> spare parts if you want to fix one.
>

That's a good idea though I ended up doing what Tom had suggested: 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/12/msg00950.html

The small boards (one on each side) on which the switches are located were a 
bit loose in their cradles and could move 1-2mm when under pressure. So I added 
a small piece of double-folded duct tape to make their placement in the cradles 
a bit more secure. That seems to have fixed the issue.

Regards,

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 10:18 AM Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 2:53 PM local10  wrote:
> >
> > I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes 
> > generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a 
> > single click.
> >
> > With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force several 
> > mouse clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted as a single 
> > mouse click?
> [...]
>
> Double click speed is pretty common. I am surprised to see it is not
> part of the Mouse Control Setting, but it is what it is...

And here's the bug report: 

Jeff

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 2:53 PM local10  wrote:
>
> I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes 
> generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a 
> single click.
>
> With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force several mouse 
> clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted as a single mouse 
> click?

I think it depends on whether you are using Wayland or X11, and
whether libinput is being used. Some things, like disabling the
trackpad when a mouse is plugged in, requires a X11+libinput and a
custom libinput rule. It cannot be done on Wayland because Wayland
lacks the equivalent setting.

Double click speed is pretty common. I am surprised to see it is not
part of the Mouse Control Setting, but it is what it is... To change
it with X11+libinput, see
.
I would be surprised to learn Wayland does not have an equivalent
setting.

You

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Anssi Saari]

local10  writes:

> It's a Logitech Trackman Marble Trackball mouse (T-BC21 model). I like
> this model but for some reason they just don't seem to last as long as
> they used to.

Maybe they have cost reduced it so much it doesn't last as well any
more. Looks like there are some other models from Logitech and
Kensington and others still in production, maybe one of those could work
better?

BTW, you might be able to use working switches from your other mice as
spare parts if you want to fix one.

I've never had a trackball, I think a friend of mine had one back in the
90s which is when I may have used one...

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Dan Purgert]

On Dec 19, 2023, Felix Miata wrote:
> Alexander V. Makartsev composed on 2023-12-19 11:37 (UTC-0500):
> 
> > local10 wrote:
> 
> >> I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they
> >> sometimes generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within
> >> 10-20ms) instead of a single click.
> > This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice, 
> > mechanical keyboards, etc.
> > They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very 
> > inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.
> > Here is a link to PDF datasheet [1] for Omron D2F series switches 
> > specifications.
> > You need a switch with pin plunger and compatible terminals, those 
> > depend on mice model.
> > You can buy them at local electronics store, order them from China 
> > (AliExpress), or from any other reputable source.
> 
> > [1] https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf
> 
> Can you suggest any particular online source in North America that
> sells those switches? I had no success trying to refurb one in my
> invaluable Logitech Trackman Marble FX PS/2 trackball. It took 2 hours
> to get that tiny switch back together after disassembly and cleaning.
> :( A Kensington Orbit I had much better luck with cleaning, so didn't
> need a new switch.

Mouser () or Digikey () both
carry the D2F series. They're both wonderful to work with, although I
prefer Digikey's parametric search over Mouser.


-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860


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OT: Pitfalls of online purchases (Was Re: Mouse single click handling?)

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 19.12.2023 23:48, Felix Miata wrote:


Can you suggest any particular online source in North America that sells those
switches? I had no success trying to refurb one in my invaluable Logitech 
Trackman
Marble FX PS/2 trackball. It took 2 hours to get that tiny switch back together
after disassembly and cleaning. :( A Kensington Orbit I had much better luck 
with
cleaning, so didn't need a new switch.

I can't unfortunately.


AliExpress is reputable? That's news to me. I ordered something from it 20 
months
ago. There was a lot of back and forth email between us before I actually got
something a month later that turned out to be used rather than new, and just as
broken as the original part I was trying to replace. My credit card company
eventually issued a refund after I explained all that happened. That particular
card I rarely used, and hadn't for a number of months before that online 
purchase
or for several months after. 3 months or so after the refund, there were 4 cash
advances issued on it totaling around $8,000 on the other side of an ocean I had
never crossed. Those got reversed, but my credit rating dropped 100 points and
hasn't come near recovering.

I share information only about my own experiences with AliExpress.
It might be very hard to find a good and reliable store there, but at 
least their official support and "dispute-system" are working fine.
The important part is that you have to keep all transactions, 
communications, chats within AliExpress platform.
Never agree to switch to email or any other resource for conversations 
with sellers. It's just asking to be scammed and AliExpress official 
customer service will be unable to help you.
I had to open disputes a few times and usually AliExpress officials 
step-in and resolve the dispute in customer's favor, unless the dispute 
is unreasonable and there is no evidence.
The whole shopping experience there could be daunting, there is simply 
too much stores and wares to choose from and their site is not helping, 
by being difficult and slow.
IMO it is too much of a risk to buy anything expensive there, given that 
postal service might smash the package during delivery, but ordering 
something like electronic components, hand tools, repair equipment, 
spare parts, etc, should be fine.
I had to order spare LCD screens and fragile repair equipment from 
reputable shops a few times. All delivered without damages.
Sometimes shops send items with a wrong part number, I had to start 
disputes explaining the problems and return items back. All returns were 
refunded back to my debit card.
I've never encountered any problems with payments or refunds, and their 
Escrow-account protection ensures that money will be released to the 
seller only after customer has received what they ordered.
I've heard there is a frequent "carder" and "skimmer" problem in the 
United States [1], so those issued card advances you had might be 
nothing to do with AliExpress, if you paid using their platform.
Anyway, I've used many cards throughout the years to pay for goods on 
AliExpress and never encountered any suspicious activities.
I also extra careful when I have to reveal my card information online 
and when I use ATMs.



[1] https://krebsonsecurity.com/?s=carder+skimmer
--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 11:56:29PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> FWIW there's a case to be made that "The Right Thing" is to try and
> >> reduce consumption of resources, and prolonging the use of hardware
> >> falls in this category.
> > One's time is also a finite resource.
> 
> Yup.  But the OP seemed to have at least some time/motivation to try and
> workout a solution other than replacing the device.

Some people have learnt their Huxley by heart. "Better ending than
mending"

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Stefan Monnier]

>> FWIW there's a case to be made that "The Right Thing" is to try and
>> reduce consumption of resources, and prolonging the use of hardware
>> falls in this category.
> One's time is also a finite resource.

Yup.  But the OP seemed to have at least some time/motivation to try and
workout a solution other than replacing the device.


Stefan

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:43:37 -0500
Stefan Monnier  wrote:

> FWIW there's a case to be made that "The Right Thing" is to try and
> reduce consumption of resources, and prolonging the use of hardware
> falls in this category.

One's time is also a finite resource.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 17:01:46 +0100 (CET)
local10  wrote:

> I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail
> with the same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps
> there was a way to fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12
> months.

I suggest you buy a different rodent. I bought three Logitech rodents
some years ago on sale for $10 each. All three still work quite well.

ID 046d:c517 Logitech, Inc. LX710 Cordless Desktop Laser

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Felix Miata]

Fred composed on 2023-12-19 18:04 (UTC-0700):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> invaluable Logitech Trackman
>> Marble FX PS/2 trackball. 

Nothing like it has been manufactured since it was discontinued nearly 3 
decades ago.

> digikey.com and mouser.com both have microswitches and good service.  It 
> will be a lot easier to throw the mouse away and get a new one.  They 
> are almost dirt cheap.

Not trackballs like a Marble FX, at any price. Caps are about the only things on
digikey and mouser I can ever find to match need. Identifying what I need among
the bazillion choices of almost but not quite they stock is the usual problem.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Fred]

On 12/19/23 11:48, Felix Miata wrote:

Alexander V. Makartsev composed on 2023-12-19 11:37 (UTC-0500):


local10 wrote:



I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes generate 
two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a single click.

This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice,
mechanical keyboards, etc.
They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very
inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.
Here is a link to PDF datasheet [1] for Omron D2F series switches
specifications.
You need a switch with pin plunger and compatible terminals, those
depend on mice model.
You can buy them at local electronics store, order them from China
(AliExpress), or from any other reputable source.



[1] https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf


Can you suggest any particular online source in North America that sells those
switches? I had no success trying to refurb one in my invaluable Logitech 
Trackman
Marble FX PS/2 trackball. It took 2 hours to get that tiny switch back together
after disassembly and cleaning. :( A Kensington Orbit I had much better luck 
with
cleaning, so didn't need a new switch.

AliExpress is reputable? That's news to me. I ordered something from it 20 
months
ago. There was a lot of back and forth email between us before I actually got
something a month later that turned out to be used rather than new, and just as
broken as the original part I was trying to replace. My credit card company
eventually issued a refund after I explained all that happened. That particular
card I rarely used, and hadn't for a number of months before that online 
purchase
or for several months after. 3 months or so after the refund, there were 4 cash
advances issued on it totaling around $8,000 on the other side of an ocean I had
never crossed. Those got reversed, but my credit rating dropped 100 points and
hasn't come near recovering.

Hi,

digikey.com and mouser.com both have microswitches and good service.  It 
will be a lot easier to throw the mouse away and get a new one.  They 
are almost dirt cheap.


Best regards,
Fred

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 19, 2023, 18:41 by ale...@nanoid.net:

> Been there done that. Cheap mice have cheap switches which fail sooner
> than later. Gaming mice are more expensive, but they are rated for 10-
> 20million clicks. Way more than than the cheap ones. In the long run
> those gaming mice come cheaper. I have an Evga X3 mouse at work i got
> in 2018. It still works and it cost just 30 euros.
>


It's a Logitech Trackman Marble Trackball mouse (T-BC21 model). I like this 
model but for some reason they just don't seem to last as long as they used to.

Regards,

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Felix Miata]

Alexander V. Makartsev composed on 2023-12-19 11:37 (UTC-0500):

> local10 wrote:

>> I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes 
>> generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a 
>> single click.
> This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice, 
> mechanical keyboards, etc.
> They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very 
> inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.
> Here is a link to PDF datasheet [1] for Omron D2F series switches 
> specifications.
> You need a switch with pin plunger and compatible terminals, those 
> depend on mice model.
> You can buy them at local electronics store, order them from China 
> (AliExpress), or from any other reputable source.

> [1] https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

Can you suggest any particular online source in North America that sells those
switches? I had no success trying to refurb one in my invaluable Logitech 
Trackman
Marble FX PS/2 trackball. It took 2 hours to get that tiny switch back together
after disassembly and cleaning. :( A Kensington Orbit I had much better luck 
with
cleaning, so didn't need a new switch.

AliExpress is reputable? That's news to me. I ordered something from it 20 
months
ago. There was a lot of back and forth email between us before I actually got
something a month later that turned out to be used rather than new, and just as
broken as the original part I was trying to replace. My credit card company
eventually issued a refund after I explained all that happened. That particular
card I rarely used, and hadn't for a number of months before that online 
purchase
or for several months after. 3 months or so after the refund, there were 4 cash
advances issued on it totaling around $8,000 on the other side of an ocean I had
never crossed. Those got reversed, but my credit rating dropped 100 points and
hasn't come near recovering.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 08:40:56PM +0200, Alexis Grigoriou wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-12-19 at 17:01 +0100, local10 wrote:
> > Dec 19, 2023, 15:30 by hfollm...@itcfollmann.com:
> > 
> > I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail
> > with the same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps
> > there was a way to fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12
> > months.
> > 
> 
> Been there done that. Cheap mice have cheap switches which fail sooner
> than later. Gaming mice are more expensive, but they are rated for 10-
> 20million clicks. Way more than than the cheap ones. In the long run
> those gaming mice come cheaper. I have an Evga X3 mouse at work i got
> in 2018. It still works and it cost just 30 euros.

As I said, I fixed a couple of them where the switches weren't the
failure, but rather the mechanical transmission, which became "too
short" (most probably because the frame around it became too long).
A thin shim did the trick.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Alexis Grigoriou]

On Tue, 2023-12-19 at 17:01 +0100, local10 wrote:
> Dec 19, 2023, 15:30 by hfollm...@itcfollmann.com:
> 
> I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail
> with the same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps
> there was a way to fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12
> months.
> 

Been there done that. Cheap mice have cheap switches which fail sooner
than later. Gaming mice are more expensive, but they are rated for 10-
20million clicks. Way more than than the cheap ones. In the long run
those gaming mice come cheaper. I have an Evga X3 mouse at work i got
in 2018. It still works and it cost just 30 euros.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 17:01:46 +0100 (CET)
local10  wrote:

Hello local10,

> So I thought perhaps there was a way to fix them instead of buying a
> new one every 6-12 months.

Replace the flaky switch.  If you're not happy wielding a soldering
iron, get a friend to do it - assuming you know someone competent at
soldering.

Failing that, when you come to buy a new mouse, pay more;  That way, one
would hope, that the quality of parts would be better, making for a
longer life.

My mouse developed similar behaviour;  LMB(1) became very touchy.  I
replaced the switch about three years ago and am still using the same
device now.  The mouse is now over a decade old.

Also, it's a good idea to give your mouse a darn good clean every now
and then.  This means taking it apart to get all the dust and other cruft
out that accumulates over time.

(1)  IME it's almost always LMB that fails - it gets far more use than
RMB.

-- 
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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[gene heskett]

On 12/19/23 10:11, local10 wrote:

Hi,

I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes generate 
two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a single click.

With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force several mouse 
clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted as a single mouse click?

Thanks
Thats in the mouse, caused by the switch not being solidly against the 
pcb its mounted to by solder so it flexes, eventually breaking the 
copper foil of the trace, so it issues a click as you push the button, 
but breaks contac as your fingeer pushes ion down, the makes the second 
contact as the switch comes back then the switch opens, creating two 
clicks for the motion of one. Sometimes you can lay a piece of wrapping 
wire around the switches pin, and extend it across the micro-crack after 
scraping off the green masking paint and rigging some sort of a clamp to 
hold the switch against the pcb solidly so it doesn't re-break your fix. 
 Its a fiddly PITA. 30+ years ago I had to keep a pile of Amiga mice 
working at the tv station where I was the CE.  The Amiga mouses motion 
encoders were unique as they were miniature quadrature encoders, much 
smoother and far more instant and accurate than any "pc" mouse even 
today, if you ever used one you will remember how easy it was to do 
precise work, and no one but Amiga (commode door) ever made replacements 
as it took an ultra fine 9 wire cable to talk to it.  We stretched what 
we had well past their geriatric years fixing them as best I could. 
Today the spastic junk we can get at Wallies isn't made to be fixed, 
just toss it and get another $9 model.  Problem solved, for a while.


Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12
KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.5  KDE Frameworks Version: 5.103.0  Qt Version: 5.15.8
Kernel Version: 6.1.0-15-amd64 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 19.12.2023 21:41, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 09:37:20PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

On 19.12.2023 20:04, local10 wrote:

Hi,

I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes generate 
two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a single click.

This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice,
mechanical keyboards, etc.
They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very
inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.

I've had some success inserting a thin shim between plunger and
switch, on the theory that the whole thing (plunger, switch, mount
on the PCB) get shortened/worn out on use.

Usually it is gunk and taint getting accumulated on metal contacts inside.
If you really have to repair a micro-switch without soldering, you can 
disassemble them, clean thoroughly contacts inside and metal plate with 
Isopropyl alcohol, let it dry out and reassemble.

Required tools:
1. Needle to pry open a plastic cap and tweezers (those could be bought 
at hardware store)

2. Steady hands (can't be bought)
3. Good eyesight (you guessed it, also can't be bought).


--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 19, 2023, 16:37 by to...@tuxteam.de:

> Here's someone offering a patch for xserver-xorg-input-evdev:
>
>  https://blog.guntram.de/?p=16
>
> and this is someone reporting on how to build for Ubuntu:
>
>  
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/321816/mouse-sometimes-doubleclicks-when-i-click-once
>
> so yes, it seems you are not alone :-)
>


I will look into it. Thanks to everyone who responded.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Curt]

On 2023-12-19,   wrote:
>
>
> But at the end, that's how most (reaonably complex) hardware works :)
>

Surely there must be superior and inferior mice. Maybe the OP should try
another brand. Or has she?

Up on the ISS, I would suppose they use touch screens, as floating mice
would be a novelty.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 09:37:20PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 19.12.2023 20:04, local10 wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes 
> > generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a 
> > single click.
> This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice,
> mechanical keyboards, etc.
> They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very
> inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.

I've had some success inserting a thin shim between plunger and
switch, on the theory that the whole thing (plunger, switch, mount
on the PCB) get shortened/worn out on use.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 11:31:21AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 05:01:46PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> > I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail with the
> > same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps there was a way to
> > fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12 months.
> 
> If you can fix the hardware, sure.
> 
> Putting crazy workaround hacks in the drivers is not a fix, though.

But at the end, that's how most (reaonably complex) hardware works :)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 19.12.2023 20:04, local10 wrote:

Hi,

I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes generate 
two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a single click.
This is a very common problem with micro-switches inside computer mice, 
mechanical keyboards, etc.
They wear out with use and has to be replaced, given that they are very 
inexpensive, standardized and relatively easy to replace.
Here is a link to PDF datasheet [1] for Omron D2F series switches 
specifications.
You need a switch with pin plunger and compatible terminals, those 
depend on mice model.
You can buy them at local electronics store, order them from China 
(AliExpress), or from any other reputable source.



[1] https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf
--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 05:01:46PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> Dec 19, 2023, 15:30 by hfollm...@itcfollmann.com:
> 
> > I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the ISS
> > station or similar?
> >
> 
> No, nothing like that.
> 
> 
> > Why would you go down this rabbit hole when the right
> > thing is to replace faulty hardware especially when it is cheap hardware?
> >
> 
> 
> I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail with the 
> same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps there was a way to 
> fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12 months.

Here's someone offering a patch for xserver-xorg-input-evdev:

   https://blog.guntram.de/?p=16

and this is someone reporting on how to build for Ubuntu:

  
https://askubuntu.com/questions/321816/mouse-sometimes-doubleclicks-when-i-click-once

so yes, it seems you are not alone :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 05:01:46PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail with the
> same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps there was a way to
> fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12 months.

If you can fix the hardware, sure.

Putting crazy workaround hacks in the drivers is not a fix, though.

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[tomas]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:29:33AM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:

[...]

> I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the ISS
> station or similar? [...]

Bad mood, today?

Cheer up
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Dec 19, 2023, 15:30 by hfollm...@itcfollmann.com:

> I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the ISS
> station or similar?
>

No, nothing like that.


> Why would you go down this rabbit hole when the right
> thing is to replace faulty hardware especially when it is cheap hardware?
>


I've been replacing them, I have 4-5 mice like that, they all fail with the 
same defect after 6-12 months or so. So I thought perhaps there was a way to 
fix them instead of buying a new one every 6-12 months.

Regards,

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the ISS
> station or similar? Why would you go down this rabbit hole when the right
> thing is to replace faulty hardware especially when it is cheap hardware?

FWIW there's a case to be made that "The Right Thing" is to try and
reduce consumption of resources, and prolonging the use of hardware falls
in this category.

This said, fully working mouses are thrown out on a regular basis at
most large organisations, so it's probably a lost battle.  But maybe the
OP's mouse have some characteristic which makes it harder to find
worthy replacements.

I'd encourage the OP to try and add support for such "debounce" support in
the drivers.  If for no other reason than the satisfaction of having
done the right thing and the feeling of empowerment one gets from molding
the software to one's own needs (enabled by Free Software).


Stefan

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Henning Follmann]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 04:04:19PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes 
> generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a 
> single click.
> 
> With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force several mouse 
> clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted as a single mouse 
> click?
> 
> Thanks
> 

I have to ask: are you currently located at a remote location like the ISS
station or similar? Why would you go down this rabbit hole when the right
thing is to replace faulty hardware especially when it is cheap hardware?

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: Mouse single click handling?

[Dan Purgert]

On Dec 19, 2023, local10 wrote:
> I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes
> generate two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead
> of a single click.
> 
> With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force
> several mouse clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted
> as a single mouse click?

As far as I'm aware, there are no "low-pass" options in the drivers /
software to accommodate the case when the mechanical parts in the mouse
start sending spurious clicks, thanks to the contacts / springs / etc.
wearing out.  

It'd probably be less effort to just replace the failing switch(es) in
the mouse than trying to add that to the software.


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Mouse single click handling?

[local10]

Hi,

I have several mice that went bad with the same defect: they sometimes generate 
two single clicks very quickly (say, within 10-20ms) instead of a single click.

With reference to the above, is there a way or setting to force several mouse 
clicks within a short period of time to be interpreted as a single mouse click?

Thanks

Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12
KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.5  KDE Frameworks Version: 5.103.0  Qt Version: 5.15.8
Kernel Version: 6.1.0-15-amd64 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11