Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-03 Thread Freeman
On Sun, Apr 04, 2010 at 02:20:45AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Fri,02.Apr.10, 07:29:59, Stephen aka Fishpaste wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks, I know my way around Aptitude. I was just querying about the
> > number of updates on a system that's updated daily. It seems that I
> > got in on a very brief window; maybe when some hardware was brought up
> > temporaily (who knows) and it's a false reading. Thought maybe that
> > testing had gone to stable, yadda, yadda.
> 
> Expect a lot of updates as soon as all uploads done in the meantime are 
> processed.
> 

Upgrade surfing! apt-listbugs and apt-showchanges are both in working order.
:-)

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-03 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Fri,02.Apr.10, 07:29:59, Stephen aka Fishpaste wrote:
> 
> Thanks, I know my way around Aptitude. I was just querying about the
> number of updates on a system that's updated daily. It seems that I
> got in on a very brief window; maybe when some hardware was brought up
> temporaily (who knows) and it's a false reading. Thought maybe that
> testing had gone to stable, yadda, yadda.

Expect a lot of updates as soon as all uploads done in the meantime are 
processed.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-03 Thread Wolodja Wentland
On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 02:19 +0200, Ingo Kasten wrote:
> Hardware trouble ries.debian.org - ftpmaster.debian.org /
> release.d.o services back this weekend
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/04/msg00038.html
> 

ries is up again and a timeline can be seen at:

http://ftp-master.debian.org/timeline
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Ingo Kasten

Hi,

just found:

Hardware trouble ries.debian.org - ftpmaster.debian.org /
release.d.o services back this weekend

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/04/msg00038.html

>sigh!<  :-)

Ingo


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Freeman
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 11:40:51PM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:

 ...

> We know, first three responses to the OP were links to the announcement.
> Yet then people wondered why there was no message sent to the user-list,
> as users also depend on that server. Gradually, this continued to
> wondering when the server will come online again.
> 

I find it not just a little ironic, although I am not complaining.

There is a current thread on debian-proj...@lists.debian.org that makes
clear 1.) how news delivery is stretched beyond capacity, in part by under
staffing, and 2.) how they are trying in a many-headed way to fix it.

Nevertheless, they did get the aforementioned notices posted.

Continuing the irony is another debian-project thread wrestling with the
issue of getting peripheral work done when it means additional commitments to
large blocks of time by already overworked volunteers.

Subscribing some low-level lists seems the least I can do, short of join the
effort .  .  .  It is a matter of checking boxes on a single page.  

My low-level list box, which procmail separates from high interest lists,
actually becomes an interesting list itself.  And I am informed without
placing demands on the organization that is, after all, GIVING me maybe the
most powerful operating system in the world and, probably, a life-long
hobby.

The numerous lists allow me to shop for exactly the topics that will
comprise this, like a soup recipe.  Mutt even maintains the thread when a
subject jumps lists, e.g.  from debian-devel-announce to debian-project.

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 11:40:51PM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
> Kumar Appaiah schreef:
> > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:03:32PM -0400, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> >>> how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
> >>> be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe
> >> The last entry I have from l.debian.announce is:
> >>
> >> "Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 updated"
> >>
> >> that was on January 30, 2010
> >>
> >> the nightmare continues.
> > 
> > This list is more appropriate:
> > 
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/threads.html
> We know, first three responses to the OP were links to the announcement.
> Yet then people wondered why there was no message sent to the user-list,
> as users also depend on that server. Gradually, this continued to
> wondering when the server will come online again.

Right. Thanks for pointing this out; I'll read the thread properly
next time.

Kumar
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman
Kumar Appaiah schreef:
> On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:03:32PM -0400, Charles Kroeger wrote:
>>> how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
>>> be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe
>> The last entry I have from l.debian.announce is:
>>
>> "Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 updated"
>>
>> that was on January 30, 2010
>>
>> the nightmare continues.
> 
> This list is more appropriate:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/threads.html
We know, first three responses to the OP were links to the announcement.
Yet then people wondered why there was no message sent to the user-list,
as users also depend on that server. Gradually, this continued to
wondering when the server will come online again.

Sjoerd



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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:03:32PM -0400, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> >how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
> >be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe
> 
> The last entry I have from l.debian.announce is:
> 
> "Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 updated"
> 
> that was on January 30, 2010
> 
> the nightmare continues.

This list is more appropriate:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/threads.html

Kumar
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Charles Kroeger
>how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
>be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe

The last entry I have from l.debian.announce is:

"Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 updated"

that was on January 30, 2010

the nightmare continues.

-- 
C.


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread Stephen aka Fishpaste
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 09:45:26AM -0400, Stephen Powell uttered:
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:50:22 -0400 (EDT), Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > On 31 Mar 2010, S.D.A. wrote:
> >> Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
> >> update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
> >> be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
> >> and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
> >> right, can it?
> > 
> >
> > No updates available here, either on ftp.de.debian.org or
> > ftp.uk.debian.org.
> 
> S.D.A:
> 
> I am assuming that you canceled out of it and did not do the updates.
> If that is the case, try issuing the following commands:

Of course! 8)

>aptitude keep-all
>aptitude update
>aptitude full-upgrade
> 
> and see what you get.

Thanks, I know my way around Aptitude. I was just querying about the
number of updates on a system that's updated daily. It seems that I
got in on a very brief window; maybe when some hardware was brought up
temporaily (who knows) and it's a false reading. Thought maybe that
testing had gone to stable, yadda, yadda.


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread S.D.A.
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 08:50:22AM +0100, Anthony Campbell uttered:
> On 31 Mar 2010, S.D.A. wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
> > update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
> > be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
> > and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
> > right, can it?
> > 
> 
> No updates available here, either on ftp.de.debian.org or
> ftp.uk.debian.org.

Indeed it must have been a narrow window -- I had tried about 5
minutes prior to my original post. Haven't seen anything since.


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-02 Thread S.D.A.
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:13:33AM -0500, John Hasler uttered:
> "S.D.A." writes:
> > Precisely, far too many lists on Debian and they could use some
> > consolidation. My view is if an issue affects users of Debian; then it
> > should be posted to the 'user' lists.
> 
> Many "users" cannot tolerate the high volume of debian-user but need to
> see announcements.  These people subscribe only to the low-volume
> "announce" lists.  On the other hand it is hard to see why those who can
> tolerate the high volume here cannot also subscribe the the low-volume
> "announce" lists.

Hi John; Yes good point -- But with an efficient e-mail client like
mutt it's trivial to wade through a high volume list, in my opinion. ;-D
BTW this list isn't that high volume compared to some social media.

Still, I think my point about USERs being impacted still stands; The
announcement should go to the USERs list as well! Too much specificity
gives the results seen here; most missed the announcement.

But if one needs to sign up for yet another list than so be it. 


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Hans Vogelsberger

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 2010-04-01 11:19, Hans Vogelsberger wrote:

... No, for squeeze there are no updates yet. ...


... but why shall I subscribe it if I already 
have the basic user list?




Different lists for different purposes.


One of these arguments again which were ridiculous already
when testing came up in potatoe times.

HV

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Ron Johnson

On 2010-04-01 11:19, Hans Vogelsberger wrote:

... No, for squeeze there are no updates yet. ...




Sjoerd



... but neither in debian-user nor in amd64 there is a person who 
thought it necessary to inform the subscribers officially of this

fact, and even now there is nobody still who thinks it necessary
to tell us how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe it if I already 
have the basic user list?




Different lists for different purposes.

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Hans Vogelsberger

... No, for squeeze there are no updates yet. ...




Sjoerd



... but neither in debian-user nor in amd64 there is a person who 
thought it necessary to inform the subscribers officially of this

fact, and even now there is nobody still who thinks it necessary
to tell us how long this nightmare might go on. Debian-announce may
be a fine additional list, but why shall I subscribe it if I already 
have the basic user list?


Hans Vogelsberger


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Stephen Powell
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 10:21:36 -0400 (EDT), Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
> Stephen Powell wrote:
>> S.D.A:
>> 
>> I am assuming that you canceled out of it and did not do the updates.
>> If that is the case, try issuing the following commands:
>> 
>>aptitude keep-all
>>aptitude update
>>aptitude full-upgrade
>> 
>> and see what you get.
> No, for squeeze there are no updates yet. Not on ftp.nl.debian.org or 
> ftp.debian.org itself.

I think you may have misunderstood the purpose of my post.  The purpose
of my post was not to suggest a method of coaxing hidden updates out of
a mirror which did not seem to offer any.  The poster identified by
"S.D.A" was complaining of an excessive number of pending updates and
was wondering if something was wrong.  The purpose of my post was to
suggest a method for canceling all pending updates (which may have been
left over from some previous unintended actions) and then to search anew
for legitimate ones.

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman

Stephen Powell schreef:

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:50:22 -0400 (EDT), Anthony Campbell wrote:

On 31 Mar 2010, S.D.A. wrote:

Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
right, can it?


No updates available here, either on ftp.de.debian.org or
ftp.uk.debian.org.


S.D.A:

I am assuming that you canceled out of it and did not do the updates.
If that is the case, try issuing the following commands:

   aptitude keep-all
   aptitude update
   aptitude full-upgrade

and see what you get.
No, for squeeze there are no updates yet. Not on ftp.nl.debian.org or 
ftp.debian.org itself.


Sjoerd



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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Stephen Powell
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:50:22 -0400 (EDT), Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2010, S.D.A. wrote:
>> Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
>> update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
>> be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
>> and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
>> right, can it?
> 
>
> No updates available here, either on ftp.de.debian.org or
> ftp.uk.debian.org.

S.D.A:

I am assuming that you canceled out of it and did not do the updates.
If that is the case, try issuing the following commands:

   aptitude keep-all
   aptitude update
   aptitude full-upgrade

and see what you get.

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-04-01 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 31 Mar 2010, S.D.A. wrote:

[snip]

> Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
> update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
> be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
> and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
> right, can it?
> 

No updates available here, either on ftp.de.debian.org or
ftp.uk.debian.org.

Anthony

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:51:31 +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:

> John Hasler wrote:
>> "S.D.A." writes:
>>> Precisely, far too many lists on Debian and they could use some
>>> consolidation. My view is if an issue affects users of Debian; then it
>>> should be posted to the 'user' lists.
> 
> No.
> 
> debian-user is for "Help and discussion among users of Debian".
> 
> debian-announce is for "Important announcements".
> 
> cf. http://lists.debian.org/users.html
> 
> There are many different needs of different people. A higher number of
> mailing lists makes it just easier to accommodate all these needs. (It
> is rather simple to subscribe and unsubscribe).

Not only that, but there's also the gmane.linux.debian.* hierarchy...


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread Johannes Wiedersich
John Hasler wrote:
> "S.D.A." writes:
>> Precisely, far too many lists on Debian and they could use some
>> consolidation. My view is if an issue affects users of Debian; then it
>> should be posted to the 'user' lists.

No.

debian-user is for "Help and discussion among users of Debian".

debian-announce is for "Important announcements".

cf. http://lists.debian.org/users.html

There are many different needs of different people. A higher number of
mailing lists makes it just easier to accommodate all these needs. (It
is rather simple to subscribe and unsubscribe).

> Many "users" cannot tolerate the high volume of debian-user but need to
> see announcements.  These people subscribe only to the low-volume
> "announce" lists.  On the other hand it is hard to see why those who can
> tolerate the high volume here cannot also subscribe the the low-volume
> "announce" lists.

And even users tolerating the high volume of d-u might want to have an
important announcement stand out (with a different 'to') for easy
filtering.

Cheers,
Johannes


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread John Hasler
"S.D.A." writes:
> Precisely, far too many lists on Debian and they could use some
> consolidation. My view is if an issue affects users of Debian; then it
> should be posted to the 'user' lists.

Many "users" cannot tolerate the high volume of debian-user but need to
see announcements.  These people subscribe only to the low-volume
"announce" lists.  On the other hand it is hard to see why those who can
tolerate the high volume here cannot also subscribe the the low-volume
"announce" lists.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread Ron Johnson

On 2010-03-31 08:51, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:32:29 -0400
"S.D.A."  wrote:

Hello S.D.A.,


update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
right, can it?


Depends on all sorts of things (like what you've got installed) but yes,
at first sight, that seems like a lot.



SDA must have a lot more packages installed than I (who haven't 
upgraded in about a week) do:


$ apt-show-versions -u | wc
2491494   15535

(Yes, I run Sid.)

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread Brad Rogers
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:32:29 -0400
"S.D.A."  wrote:

Hello S.D.A.,

> update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
> be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
> and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
> right, can it?

Depends on all sorts of things (like what you've got installed) but yes,
at first sight, that seems like a lot.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

The public wants what the public gets
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-31 Thread S.D.A.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 09:22:16AM +0100, Brad Rogers uttered:
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:53:19 +0300
> Andrei Popescu  wrote:
> 
> Hello Andrei,
> 
> > security-master)[1] and testing/unstable users should be subscribed to 
> > debian-devel-announce. It's low-traffic enough to not be a burden to 
> > follow.
> 
> I tend to agree, but as per my reply to John (Hasler), not everyone will
> see it that way.

Precisely, far too many lists on Debian and they could use some
consolidation. My view is if an issue affects users of Debian; then it
should be posted to the 'user' lists.

Speaking of this issue (FTP master being down); I did an 'aptitude
update' for my SID laptop this morning. Says over 900 packages need to
be updated! Now I know it's been a few days since we received updates,
and I update every day prior to the downtime; Surely that can't be
right, can it?


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-30 Thread Brad Rogers
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:53:19 +0300
Andrei Popescu  wrote:

Hello Andrei,

> security-master)[1] and testing/unstable users should be subscribed to 
> debian-devel-announce. It's low-traffic enough to not be a burden to 
> follow.

I tend to agree, but as per my reply to John (Hasler), not everyone will
see it that way.

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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

Who's a sucker now?
Edward The Bear - The Damned


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Brad Rogers
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:32:32 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

Hello John,

> The "announce" lists are not just for developers.

Understood, but not everyone wants to subscribe to YANL (Yet ANother
List), even one as low-traffic as dev-announce.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

The public wants what the public gets
Going Underground - The Jam


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Mon,29.Mar.10, 19:46:21, Brad Rogers wrote:
> However, I reckon notification here would be a Good Thing{tm}.
> 
> It's not just the developers that are affected by such problems as
> ftpmaster.debian.org being partially incapacitated, albeit temporarily.

IMHO: this does not affect stable users (ftp-master is not 
security-master)[1] and testing/unstable users should be subscribed to 
debian-devel-announce. It's low-traffic enough to not be a burden to 
follow.

[1] ok, stable-proposed-updates might be affected (I'm not sure), but 
people shouldn't be using those packages until the point release ;)

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread John Hasler
Brad writes:
> However, I reckon notification here would be a Good Thing{tm}.

> It's not just the developers that are affected by such problems as
> ftpmaster.debian.org being partially incapacitated, albeit
> temporarily.

The "announce" lists are not just for developers.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Brad Rogers
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:07:25 -0400 (EDT)
Stephen Powell  wrote:

Hello Stephen,

> The repositories have not been shut down.  All the Debian mirrors

Sorry, poor wording on my part.

However, I reckon notification here would be a Good Thing{tm}.

It's not just the developers that are affected by such problems as
ftpmaster.debian.org being partially incapacitated, albeit temporarily.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Stephen Powell
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:58:29 -0400 (EDT), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:17:48 +0200, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
>> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html
>> and follow-ups on debian-devel.
> 
> Just throwing this out as an idea;
> 
> Wouldn't it make sense to cc such announcements to the users list?
> Shutting down the repositories, I would have thought, was of major
> importance to all of us.

The repositories have not been shut down.  All the Debian mirrors
still work.  It's only ftpmaster.debian.org that has been shut down.
And by Debian policy, only primary Debian mirrors are supposed to
access that server.

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Brad Rogers
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:17:48 +0200
Wolodja Wentland  wrote:

Hello Wolodja,

> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html
> and follow-ups on debian-devel.

Just throwing this out as an idea;

Wouldn't it make sense to cc such announcements to the users list?
Shutting down the repositories, I would have thought, was of major
importance to all of us.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Aioanei Rares

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Mon,29.Mar.10, 13:05:18, S Scharf wrote:
  

Anyone know why there hasn't been any testing updates since March 25th?



See http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html 
and the follow-ups on debian-devel.


Regards,
Andrei
  

debian-user rocks. ;-)


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Aioanei Rares

S Scharf wrote:

Anyone know why there hasn't been any testing updates since March 25th?

Stuart


http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html


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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Mon,29.Mar.10, 13:05:18, S Scharf wrote:
> Anyone know why there hasn't been any testing updates since March 25th?

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html 
and the follow-ups on debian-devel.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread Wolodja Wentland
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 13:05 -0400, S Scharf wrote:
> Anyone know why there hasn't been any testing updates since March 25th?

See:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/03/msg00010.html

and follow-ups on debian-devel.
-- 
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No updates seen in a while

2010-03-29 Thread S Scharf
Anyone know why there hasn't been any testing updates since March 25th?

Stuart