Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:47:56 -0800, Nano Nano wrote: Obviously, for tech stuff, the internet is authoritative. And there should be travel brochures and fan sites on the internet. But I would much rather googling for Stonehenge returned 27 hits comprising thousands of printed pages of meaty, well-established and respected literature, than the way the internet *currently* is. You can get that. You could research at the British Museum, for example. What you really want is everything for free, and you can't reasonably expect people to give away the copyrighted product of their hard work to freeloaders. If you really seriously want to research Stonehenge on the Web, then quit whining and get your credit card out. -- paul Programming without a hex editor is like watchmaking without a hammer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 03:53:03PM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: You can get that. You could research at the British Museum, for example. What you really want is everything for free, and you can't reasonably expect people to give away the copyrighted product of their hard work to freeloaders. If you really seriously want to research Stonehenge on the Web, then quit whining and get your credit card out. Well, we all know how this debate goes. Let's just assume we've said all the usual things and call it over. Knowledge is the right of all people. Artificial barriers to knowledge must not be created. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:47:56PM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: Piles? Did you follow those links? There are three categories: fansites (not authoritative nor deep), travel brochures and tour packages (not interested and all), and interesting sites. So to narrow it down, add some excludes to your search. See a term that comes up a lot but is totally unrelated? Then add -keyword to the end. That really starts whittling things down fast. So I posit that the interesting content in the library is much deeper and richer than what's on the internet. Plus, 27 hits, and *all* are spot on what I want, no fluff or crap. I'm not arguing that, you just flat out say the net sucks, and the evidence you provided demonstrates that perhaps you weren't using the tools available to their full potential. Obviously, for tech stuff, the internet is authoritative. And there should be travel brochures and fan sites on the internet. But I would much rather googling for Stonehenge returned 27 hits comprising thousands of printed pages of meaty, well-established and respected literature, than the way the internet *currently* is. Did you try Wikipedia? It is quite impressive and an excellent starting place when trying to get info about meatspace. Right now all the travel brochures, fan sites, TV entertainment, and (meagre) scholarly research is all mixed together. As it will likely always be. It just takes some time to get used to sorting through the information overload. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFABj/+UzgNqloQMwcRAnIhAKDNTpPpJXMQhxDiJNdCmSUEjlnt4gCgzX44 M2+2XQXo1fCG/0HOgz91/bI= =boK2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 10:54:13PM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. You didn't try very hard. http://www.google.com/search?q=stonehengeie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8 Piles of stuff, right there, including two complete categories, about anything you could possibly want to know about Stonehenge. And you missed the obvious go-to for info like this: Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge Pages of info about Stonehenge, liberally cross-referenced, hyperlinked for your convienence. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFABipNUzgNqloQMwcRAnnHAKCBiWih5eU9W2oViuPgWue+MOZS1QCcDJSg rLVzm5Wkny4/+8rT74WAOUE= =qWQp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 07:10:20PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: Help me out here. The net is best for finding out what books to read;) No kidding. I don't even have to get up and walk up the street to Central Library to find the book... telnet://dyna.multcolib.org/ - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFABirKUzgNqloQMwcRAu4dAJ4ijjsrRpdnz/Fek/y88cnq9G6RFQCcCskh dRdZT3QpoqrrOdhXm2nIP8o= =Kfz5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 09:45:10AM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 06:37:34AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: [snip] I don't see any problem. I found, I think, the sort of thing for which you were looking in just a few seconds. [snip] http://www.aboutstonehenge.info/index.php Imagine what life would be like if googling for stonehenge returned results like these: http://mill1.sjlibrary.org/search/dstonehenge/dstonehenge/1,7,38,B/exactFF=dstonehenge+england1,27, and you could click each link and read the entire text! http://www.google.com/search?q=stonehenge%20site%3Asjlibrary.orgie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8 It really just depends on how hard you try. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFABjCgUzgNqloQMwcRAlIJAJ0UL3LhL0a8EE0YQK05LP02HBP5dACgyJCQ 19wcCH6eOQiM/tm1iY5QF7M= =urYr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 09:51:10PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 10:54:13PM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: Piles of stuff, right there, including two complete categories, about anything you could possibly want to know about Stonehenge. Piles? Did you follow those links? There are three categories: fansites (not authoritative nor deep), travel brochures and tour packages (not interested and all), and interesting sites. Let's consider the interesting sites. True, they are interesting, but compare their content and the amount of it to what I can find in the Library: Ancient Britain : the cradle of civilization, 343 pages The Druid bible, 189 pages The enigma of Stonehenge, 126 pages From Stonehenge To Modern Cosmology., 96 pages Great Stone Circles, 199 pages Der Handel In Der Vorzeit, 340 pages The Making Of Stonehenge, 305 pages Megalithic Science, 256 pages [and so on, 27 books] So I posit that the interesting content in the library is much deeper and richer than what's on the internet. Plus, 27 hits, and *all* are spot on what I want, no fluff or crap. Obviously, for tech stuff, the internet is authoritative. And there should be travel brochures and fan sites on the internet. But I would much rather googling for Stonehenge returned 27 hits comprising thousands of printed pages of meaty, well-established and respected literature, than the way the internet *currently* is. Right now all the travel brochures, fan sites, TV entertainment, and (meagre) scholarly research is all mixed together. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
Nano Nano wrote: Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. The experience I wanted was a deep, rich, complete, authoritative, well-annotated, and well-accepted Library-like experience reading about Stonehenge: names of the best scholars, the names of the most influential histories and critiques on the subject, in short the sort of experience I would get at a University Library, only faster. The internet is nothing like that. I am lucky in than San Jose has opened a San Jose State's University library to the public: even though it is not a world-class university, the quality of the knowledge available there *blows away* what I can find on the Internet. Help me out here. The net is best for finding out what books to read;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On (13/01/04 19:10), Russell Shaw wrote: Nano Nano wrote: Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. The experience I wanted was a deep, rich, complete, authoritative, well-annotated, and well-accepted Library-like experience reading about Stonehenge: names of the best scholars, the names of the most influential histories and critiques on the subject, in short the sort of experience I would get at a University Library, only faster. The internet is nothing like that. I am lucky in than San Jose has opened a San Jose State's University library to the public: even though it is not a world-class university, the quality of the knowledge available there *blows away* what I can find on the Internet. Help me out here. The net is best for finding out what books to read;) I wouldn't suggest that the net is better than an authoratitive book but a quick search on stonehenge history produced: http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html as the first entry and many more besides. How you search is key to finding the best information. HTH Regards Clive -- http://www.clivemenzies.co.uk strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 09:06:25AM +, Clive Menzies wrote: [snip] The net is best for finding out what books to read;) I wouldn't suggest that the net is better than an authoratitive book but a quick search on stonehenge history produced: http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html as the first entry and many more besides. How you search is key to finding the best information. Yeah, that is better. I think link #2 is even better: http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/stones/stonehen/history.html but these aren't exactly deep; these are more like the Travel Brochures you see in hotel lobbies. None of the other links are very good at all. And having to type in stonehenge history is the kind of beef I had with old-school search engines like Hotbot or Altavista: you have to be *so* specific or you get crap. Compare these results with typing in just stonehenge in the subject category of a decent university library. I want my results pages to look like that. EORant :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nano Nano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but these aren't exactly deep; these are more like the Travel Brochures you see in hotel lobbies. None of the other links are very good at all. And having to type in stonehenge history is the kind of beef I had with old-school search engines like Hotbot or Altavista: you have to be *so* specific or you get crap. Compare these results with typing in just stonehenge in the subject category of a decent university library. I want my results pages to look like that. That's because you are already being very specific - you want to know something about Stonehenge, and there's a good chance a university library has information on that, so you go to that library and .. surprise, they have info on Stonehenge. Now try to find in that library info on the IBM/SCO lawsuit, or the historic Tanenbaum/Torvalds flamewar, or N-sync. To find something, you have to know where to look. Mike. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On 1/13/04 5:37 AM, Paul Morgan wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 09:06:25AM +, Clive Menzies wrote: [snip] The net is best for finding out what books to read;) I wouldn't suggest that the net is better than an authoratitive book but a quick search on stonehenge history produced: http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html as the first entry and many more besides. How you search is key to finding the best information. Yeah, that is better. I think link #2 is even better: http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/stones/stonehen/history.html but these aren't exactly deep; these are more like the Travel Brochures you see in hotel lobbies. None of the other links are very good at all. I don't see any problem. I found, I think, the sort of thing for which you were looking in just a few seconds. Googled on (without the quotes) stonehenge history research and found this (the 6th link down), and the first one I went to based on the extracts on the google search results: http://www.aboutstonehenge.info/index.php I found quite a bit by just going to http://www.historychannel.com and using their search engine. I would have to agree though on many of the search engines, using one keyword is not an efficient way to search, you need to narrow down the keywords and phrase to truly get the right results. I doubt you would type in New York to find out about the Statue of Liberty. -- Thanks!! David Thurman List Only at Web Presence Group Net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
Paul Morgan wrote: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:13:42 -0800, Nano Nano wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 09:06:25AM +, Clive Menzies wrote: [snip] The net is best for finding out what books to read;) I wouldn't suggest that the net is better than an authoratitive book but a quick search on stonehenge history produced: http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html as the first entry and many more besides. How you search is key to finding the best information. Yeah, that is better. I think link #2 is even better: http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/stones/stonehen/history.html but these aren't exactly deep; these are more like the Travel Brochures you see in hotel lobbies. None of the other links are very good at all. And having to type in stonehenge history is the kind of beef I had with old-school search engines like Hotbot or Altavista: you have to be *so* specific or you get crap. Compare these results with typing in just stonehenge in the subject category of a decent university library. I want my results pages to look like that. I don't see any problem. I found, I think, the sort of thing for which you were looking in just a few seconds. Googled on (without the quotes) stonehenge history research and found this (the 6th link down), and the first one I went to based on the extracts on the google search results: http://www.aboutstonehenge.info/index.php BTW, if you ever visit Stonehenge, also visit the West Kennet Long Barrow. You park near Silbury Hill, cross the road and walk uphill along the edge of a wheat field. It's a Neolithic burial chamber, predating Stonehenge. Hardly anyone goes there, there's no ropes, guides, or anything. Just walk inside the tomb and take a look around. Put your hand on the rock slab wall and make a connection with those people, just like you and me, with similar hopes and fears, who loved their families and children and respectfully buried their dead, who dressed those stones and built that burial chamber over five thousand years ago. Link: http://www.stonepages.com/england/westkennet.html Excellent suggestion. Thanks! Hugo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Nano Nano wrote: Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. The experience I wanted was a deep, rich, complete, authoritative, well-annotated, and well-accepted Library-like experience reading about Stonehenge: names of the best scholars, the names of the most influential histories and critiques on the subject, in short the sort of experience I would get at a University Library, only faster. The internet is nothing like that. I am lucky in than San Jose has opened a San Jose State's University library to the public: even though it is not a world-class university, the quality of the knowledge available there *blows away* what I can find on the Internet. Did you try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge They tend to have decent links. Then again, sometimes a public library is the best place to look. If I wanted an overview of the English Civil War, weaving, or anthropology, the local library will probably be one of the easiest ways to find that information. However, if I want the biography of Haruki Murakami[1], a study of the Gilyak[2] language, or the latest PHP documentation[3], the web will probably be faster and more in depth. ~ Jesse Meyer [1] Japanese author. Writes some rather unusual books. [2] One of the few languages on earth that can't be traced to any other language. [3] PHP has some rather good documentation on their homepage. -- icq:34583382 | Nethack 3.4._3_ is out! http://www.nethack.org jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | And how can man die better / Than facing msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | fearful odds / For the ashes of his fathers / yim:tsunad | and the temples of his gods? ~ Babington pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge [OT from this OT]
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 09:06:25AM +, Clive Menzies wrote: On (13/01/04 19:10), Russell Shaw wrote: Nano Nano wrote: Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. The experience I wanted was a deep, rich, complete, authoritative, well-annotated, and well-accepted Library-like experience reading about Stonehenge: names of the best scholars, the names of the most influential histories and critiques on the subject, in short the sort of experience I would get at a University Library, only faster. The internet is nothing like that. I am lucky in than San Jose has opened a San Jose State's University library to the public: even though it is not a world-class university, the quality of the knowledge available there *blows away* what I can find on the Internet. Help me out here. The net is best for finding out what books to read;) I wouldn't suggest that the net is better than an authoratitive book but a quick search on stonehenge history produced: http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html as the first entry and many more besides. How you search is key to finding the best information. HTH Regards Clive Amusing, and maybe significant: I checked this out. I got only info. about various Inns and Wineries until I fixed my spelling from stonehedge to stonehenge. I always have had a problem with english spelling. -- Paul E Condon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 06:37:34AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: [snip] I don't see any problem. I found, I think, the sort of thing for which you were looking in just a few seconds. [snip] http://www.aboutstonehenge.info/index.php Imagine what life would be like if googling for stonehenge returned results like these: http://mill1.sjlibrary.org/search/dstonehenge/dstonehenge/1,7,38,B/exactFF=dstonehenge+england1,27, and you could click each link and read the entire text! I guess I'd be happy if the full text of all books ever published was available online. Each of those books is probably 300 pages. I can't find *that* amount of depth on the 'net. Also, note, I found this by a single search keyword, stonehenge. So I highly doubt http://www.aboutstonehenge.info/index.php;, my one stop stonehenge spot, is a substitute for the collected works on Stonehenge available in the San Jose library. Some of us are more than consumers! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: Why the net Sucks: Stonehenge
Watching a program on PBS, I decided I wanted to read about Stonehenge. Off to google, I go, searching for Stonehenge. Didn't like the results. Tried Google directory, Yahoo, and Teoma: didn't like any of them. The experience I wanted was a deep, rich, complete, authoritative, well-annotated, and well-accepted Library-like experience reading about Stonehenge: names of the best scholars, the names of the most influential histories and critiques on the subject, in short the sort of experience I would get at a University Library, only faster. The internet is nothing like that. I am lucky in than San Jose has opened a San Jose State's University library to the public: even though it is not a world-class university, the quality of the knowledge available there *blows away* what I can find on the Internet. Help me out here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
