Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
I spoke with a friend about this yesterday who was in the area and has done quite a bit using SDR as a radio amateur. He passed along these links: https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=wright1608139109925131=inline https://www.rtl-sdr.com/using-an-rtl-sdr-rf-fingerprinting-and-deep-learning-to-authenticate-rf-devices/ https://www.rtl-sdr.com/identifying-transmitters-with-ctcss-fingerprinting/ The second link is interesting as it focuses on RF devices that are commonly found such as IoT sensors, keyfobs, and other common RF transmitting devices beyond two-way radio transmitters. In other words, this tech should have applicability in network security, to bring it back on topic a bit. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On 11/22/21 00:47, Hans wrote: > Hi Georgi, > > yes, that sounds interesting. And fingerprinting of a transceiver is the main > thing. Thus, for example, you can identify people's radio transceivers, they > use to radio interfere. I am a licensed radio amateur, and those people are > often doing this on repeaters. > > They want to be anonymous, however, many of them are also licensed radio > amateurs, and their callsigns are known. > > Of course they are using the same radio transmitters for normal trafficing, > and so they could be identified. This is the same technics our > "Bundesnetzagentur" is using (the radio government). > > It would also give the ability, to supress those people on the repeaters, > when > they misuse it. For example, an unlicensed radio could be filtered out, so > that its transmission will not be send by the repeaters. > > And as the range of a handheld transceiver is not large, only a small area > would be interfered - not the whole area the radio repeater is covering. > > I did not find any similar solution to xmit-id, especially none for linux. If > you know one, I will be happy, to point me at them. > > If you know one, this would be interesting, so it could maybe run on a small > computer, like a Raspberry Pi. > > These are just my thoughts, why I stumbled over this application, and maybe > others would be interested, too. > > As I know, there are also bibg applications ported from DOS to linux (like > doom), I thoughtm that would be easy - just start a cross compiler, then fix > some issues, ready. But I believe, it is not that easy, I suppose, this is a > lot lot lot work. And as far as I understood, code from DOS C is far from > similar to Linux C. > > That is a pity, but good to know, if I might some time begin to code myself: > I > won't never ever code for DOS or Windows or any proprietrary OS! Never! > > Have a very nice day! > > Best regards > Hi Hans, I just gave an idea and I'm far away from this field. Kind regards Georgi
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 12:23 PM Nate Bargmann wrote: > Interestingly, it appears that the original author was threatened with > patent infringement of US Patent 5,005,210[1]. It seems as though the > patent may have expired in 2008[2]. > > . > Thanks for that, the usual shady story. > Just glancing at the source and from the comments of others, there is > probably some amount of the source that could be usable. I suspect the > UI and the sound interface would need to be written from scratch as they > are probably Turbo C and Soundblaster specific, respectively. The thing is, the Soundblaster and the (Commodore? or Curtis?) sound chips in them became a de facto standard. DOS and Windows. There were clone chips and compatible cards, etc. So the project could have a broad compatibility reach. And you have to wonder if it's been mostly done already. Still > this would be a very useful tool for those interested in radio frequency > (RF) work, especially with a laptop or SBC (Raspberry Pi, etc.). > > - Nate > > [1] https://www.qsl.net/n9zia/xmit_id/legal.html > [2] https://patents.google.com/patent/US5005210A/en > [3] https://wiki.w9cr.net/index.php/Transmitter_Fingerprinting > [4] > https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/dispatch/name/richard-rager-obituary?id=28327105 > > -- > "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all > possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." > Web: https://www.n0nb.us > Projects: https://github.com/N0NB > GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 > >
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
As I know, there are also bibg applications ported from DOS to linux (like doom), I thoughtm that would be easy - just start a cross compiler, then fix some issues, ready. But I believe, it is not that easy, I suppose, this is a lot lot lot work. And as far as I understood, code from DOS C is far from similar to Linux C. The opposite is in fact true: the C language with its core library is highly standardized and portable across all platforms. There probably is no "more portable" computer language in existence. Implementation-specific libraries, however, are usually not portable, hence applications using these libraries must be adapted to the target system. And that bit is not "some issues" -- it's the real work.
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Hans, Georgi makes a good point about existing software. This seems like it would be a perfect addition to a Software Defined Radio (SDR) package. I've not investigated whether any of the existing packages available in Debian have this capability. As these programs capture an arbitrary slice of the RF spectrum, it seems like they would be perfect for the task. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Hi Georgi, yes, that sounds interesting. And fingerprinting of a transceiver is the main thing. Thus, for example, you can identify people's radio transceivers, they use to radio interfere. I am a licensed radio amateur, and those people are often doing this on repeaters. They want to be anonymous, however, many of them are also licensed radio amateurs, and their callsigns are known. Of course they are using the same radio transmitters for normal trafficing, and so they could be identified. This is the same technics our "Bundesnetzagentur" is using (the radio government). It would also give the ability, to supress those people on the repeaters, when they misuse it. For example, an unlicensed radio could be filtered out, so that its transmission will not be send by the repeaters. And as the range of a handheld transceiver is not large, only a small area would be interfered - not the whole area the radio repeater is covering. I did not find any similar solution to xmit-id, especially none for linux. If you know one, I will be happy, to point me at them. If you know one, this would be interesting, so it could maybe run on a small computer, like a Raspberry Pi. These are just my thoughts, why I stumbled over this application, and maybe others would be interested, too. As I know, there are also bibg applications ported from DOS to linux (like doom), I thoughtm that would be easy - just start a cross compiler, then fix some issues, ready. But I believe, it is not that easy, I suppose, this is a lot lot lot work. And as far as I understood, code from DOS C is far from similar to Linux C. That is a pity, but good to know, if I might some time begin to code myself: I won't never ever code for DOS or Windows or any proprietrary OS! Never! Have a very nice day! Best regards Hans > Hi Hans, > > my understanding is that finger prints functionality is the most > important part for you. There are radio receiver applications for Linux. > Maybe it'll be easier needed functionality to be implemented to one of > existing applications. > > Kind regards > Georgi
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On 11/21/21 13:54, Hans wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I know, there are lots of coders here and I have a question. There is an old
> DOS application I found, which is open source and GPL.
>
> As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in textmode
> ("ncurses-mode").
>
> Since there is no similar linux based application like this, I wondered, ho
> difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
> natively running in linux.
>
> For those, who are interested, this is what this application is for:
>
> The application is for radio enthusiasts. It can recognize every radio
> transceiver with its transmission. This is because every radio transceiver
> has
> its very personally transient response, just like a fingerprint. This
> application gets its signal then from the if-module via the souzndcard and
> shows the very special transient response as a graphic. These graphic can be
> named and whenever the transceiver is sending again, it will be recognized.
> Very useful to recognize and rerecognize unwanted stations.
>
> I can send the app wherever you want to (attaching it here, does not allow to
> send the mail strangely), so everyone can take a look. This app is available
> in the web, but a little bit hidden, if you do not know its exactly name.
>
> The original author of the application has sadly passed by many years ago,
> but
> as I said, it is GPL. If someone is bored, he can do with it, whatever he
> wants.
>
> Long text, short question: As I am no coder, though I would like to know, how
> much time (roughly estimated, not exactly!) an experienced coder would need
> and if this would be possible at all. How many hours do you think? Is DOS C
> and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
>
> I will be happy of all feedback!
>
> Best regards
>
Hi Hans,
my understanding is that finger prints functionality is the most
important part for you. There are radio receiver applications for Linux.
Maybe it'll be easier needed functionality to be implemented to one of
existing applications.
Kind regards
Georgi
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Interestingly, it appears that the original author was threatened with patent infringement of US Patent 5,005,210[1]. It seems as though the patent may have expired in 2008[2]. It appears no patent infringement suit was ever brought against the author. The noted rights holder, Motron, apparently doesn't even offer the product that this software was claimed to infringe upon. Here is bit more background on the device that Google served up[3]. Here is Mr. Rager's obituary from 2006[4]. As it stands now, IANAL, the patent should be expired, the noted patent holder does not have a device on the market, the source appears to be intended to be licensed under the GPL v2 or later, though a copyright header is not present in the source files themselves, a file containing the text of the GPL v2 is included as is a file named header.txt that contains the usual text for source files and may have been included as part of the Turbo C project. No traces of a build system are present in the source archive. Just glancing at the source and from the comments of others, there is probably some amount of the source that could be usable. I suspect the UI and the sound interface would need to be written from scratch as they are probably Turbo C and Soundblaster specific, respectively. Still this would be a very useful tool for those interested in radio frequency (RF) work, especially with a laptop or SBC (Raspberry Pi, etc.). - Nate [1] https://www.qsl.net/n9zia/xmit_id/legal.html [2] https://patents.google.com/patent/US5005210A/en [3] https://wiki.w9cr.net/index.php/Transmitter_Fingerprinting [4] https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/dispatch/name/richard-rager-obituary?id=28327105 -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Den 21.11.2021 15:24, skrev Håkon Alstadheim:
Den 21.11.2021 14:55, skrev Nicholas Geovanis:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 7:51 AM Nicholas Geovanis
wrote:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 6:46 AM Thomas Schmitt
wrote:
Hi,
Hans wrote:
> As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is
running in
> textmode ("ncurses-mode").
> [...] I wondered, ho
> difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS
application
> natively running in linux.
[snip]
Didn't Borland open-source or freeware license Turbo C++ ? The
cheaper Borland C++ ? If I remember that right and you can find
it, it might be the compiler that was used.
I see "graphics.h" being included in the C-code, which indicates
Borland Turbo C (says google). Find Borland Turbo C 2.x and install
that under FreeDos, and you should be able to compile. First step for
porting to linux would be to get rid of references to the Borland
graphics library I guess.
I also found this http://libxbgi.sourceforge.net/ , which claims to
implement the graphics lib interface (google after "BGI", for Borland
Graphics Interface) . So with that, it should be doable to tweak it to
run natively under linux.
[snip]
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Den 21.11.2021 14:55, skrev Nicholas Geovanis:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 7:51 AM Nicholas Geovanis
wrote:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 6:46 AM Thomas Schmitt
wrote:
Hi,
Hans wrote:
> As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is
running in
> textmode ("ncurses-mode").
> [...] I wondered, ho
> difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS
application
> natively running in linux.
> Is DOS C and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be
easy?
C is not a typical programming language on DOS. Similar to
ncurses it
stems from Unix. But of course there are C compilers and
*curses versions
for DOS.
Didn't Borland open-source or freeware license Turbo C++ ? The
cheaper Borland C++ ? If I remember that right and you can find
it, it might be the compiler that was used.
I see "graphics.h" being included in the C-code, which indicates Borland
Turbo C (says google). Find Borland Turbo C 2.x and install that under
FreeDos, and you should be able to compile. First step for porting to
linux would be to get rid of references to the Borland graphics library
I guess.
Another possibility is that they used the old Glockenspiel C++. That
was absorbed by Computer Assoc who I worked for from 1989 to 1993. It
may be freely available. They are called CA for several years now.
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 7:51 AM Nicholas Geovanis
wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 6:46 AM Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Hans wrote:
>> > As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in
>> > textmode ("ncurses-mode").
>> > [...] I wondered, ho
>> > difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
>> > natively running in linux.
>>
>>
>> > Is DOS C and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
>>
>> C is not a typical programming language on DOS. Similar to ncurses it
>> stems from Unix. But of course there are C compilers and *curses versions
>> for DOS.
>>
>
> Didn't Borland open-source or freeware license Turbo C++ ? The cheaper
> Borland C++ ? If I remember that right and you can find it, it might be the
> compiler that was used.
>
Another possibility is that they used the old Glockenspiel C++. That was
absorbed by Computer Assoc who I worked for from 1989 to 1993. It may be
freely available. They are called CA for several years now.
>
>> Have a nice day :)
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 6:46 AM Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Hans wrote:
> > As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in
> > textmode ("ncurses-mode").
> > [...] I wondered, ho
> > difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
> > natively running in linux.
>
>
> > Is DOS C and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
>
> C is not a typical programming language on DOS. Similar to ncurses it
> stems from Unix. But of course there are C compilers and *curses versions
> for DOS.
>
Didn't Borland open-source or freeware license Turbo C++ ? The cheaper
Borland C++ ? If I remember that right and you can find it, it might be the
compiler that was used.
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Of course, and this working, yes. But I thought, native linux might be better, and maybe someone may be happy for such a projekt. Just an idea. Best Hans > tried DOSEMU? > https://dosemu2.github.io/dosemu2/ > > -- > Fabio
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Am Sonntag, 21. November 2021, 14:03:36 CET schrieb Richard Owlett: if-module, this is intermediate frequence (as usual 455khz for example). Did not know the correct English word for it, sorry. Best Hans > On 11/21/2021 06:45 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > > [snip] > > > > (What is an "if-module", btw ? > > Google does not give me proposals which look like radio enthusiasm.) > > I read that as "Intermediate frequency". > q.v. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_frequency
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On 11/21/2021 06:45 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote: [snip] (What is an "if-module", btw ? Google does not give me proposals which look like radio enthusiasm.) I read that as "Intermediate frequency". q.v. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_frequency
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On 2021-11-21 08:54, Hans wrote:
Hello list,
I know, there are lots of coders here and I have a question. There is
an old
DOS application I found, which is open source and GPL.
As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in
textmode
("ncurses-mode").
Since there is no similar linux based application like this, I
wondered, ho
difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
natively running in linux.
For those, who are interested, this is what this application is for:
The application is for radio enthusiasts. It can recognize every radio
transceiver with its transmission. This is because every radio
transceiver has
its very personally transient response, just like a fingerprint. This
application gets its signal then from the if-module via the souzndcard
and
shows the very special transient response as a graphic. These graphic
can be
named and whenever the transceiver is sending again, it will be
recognized.
Very useful to recognize and rerecognize unwanted stations.
I can send the app wherever you want to (attaching it here, does not
allow to
send the mail strangely), so everyone can take a look. This app is
available
in the web, but a little bit hidden, if you do not know its exactly
name.
The original author of the application has sadly passed by many years
ago, but
as I said, it is GPL. If someone is bored, he can do with it, whatever
he
wants.
Long text, short question: As I am no coder, though I would like to
know, how
much time (roughly estimated, not exactly!) an experienced coder would
need
and if this would be possible at all. How many hours do you think? Is
DOS C
and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
I will be happy of all feedback!
Best regards
Hans
tried DOSEMU?
https://dosemu2.github.io/dosemu2/
--
Fabio
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Hi,
Hans wrote:
> As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in
> textmode ("ncurses-mode").
> [...] I wondered, ho
> difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
> natively running in linux.
Hard to say without seeing code and build system.
Did you already consider to install a free DOS system to a virtual machine
and to run the application there ?
> Is DOS C and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
C is not a typical programming language on DOS. Similar to ncurses it
stems from Unix. But of course there are C compilers and *curses versions
for DOS.
I would expect that the C code can be compiled on GNU/Linux. The adventure
is likely to begin when the linker shall put together the compiled code
and the libraries from where this code wants to use functions.
> This application gets its signal then from the if-module via the souzndcard
Access to hardware imposes additional adventure. It is likely that this
part of the application has to be adapted or even re-written to what
you get offered by Linux for accessing this hardware.
(What is an "if-module", btw ?
Google does not give me proposals which look like radio enthusiasm.)
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Hi Nate (and everything else), if you want to take a look at the app, it is called "XMIT261". You can find it here: https://www.qsl.net/n9zia/xmit_id/down.html[1] It is the only source I found, for myself I made several backups, as I am not sure how long this is available at all. Although, this app is about 25 years old Hope this helps. Best regards Hans [1] https://www.qsl.net/n9zia/xmit_id/down.html
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
* On 2021 21 Nov 05:54 -0600, Hans wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I know, there are lots of coders here and I have a question. There is an old
> DOS application I found, which is open source and GPL.
>
> As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in textmode
> ("ncurses-mode").
>
> Since there is no similar linux based application like this, I wondered, ho
> difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
> natively running in linux.
Hi Hans.
I think the difficulty will be whether it was written for the DJGPP[1]
compiler (a port of GCC to DOS, as I recall) and this uses C library
calls and the actual ncurses library. If it was written using classic
DOS interrupts and direct video hardware access, then the task would be
quite a bit more difficult, I would think (note that I am guessing, not
having done anything like this).
Perhaps the easiest way is to install FreeDOS[2] in a virtual machine
(QEMU[3] is in the archives, Virtualbox[4] requires a slight bit more work)
and run the program from there. Then tackle development in that
environment while slowly working toward a native Linux build.
> For those, who are interested, this is what this application is for:
>
> The application is for radio enthusiasts. It can recognize every radio
> transceiver with its transmission. This is because every radio transceiver
> has
> its very personally transient response, just like a fingerprint. This
> application gets its signal then from the if-module via the souzndcard and
> shows the very special transient response as a graphic. These graphic can be
> named and whenever the transceiver is sending again, it will be recognized.
> Very useful to recognize and rerecognize unwanted stations.
As a radio amateur myself, I find the above intriguing. I don't recall
hearing of this program before. I am aware that such radio transmitter
fingerprinting has been known for a long time.
> I can send the app wherever you want to (attaching it here, does not allow to
> send the mail strangely), so everyone can take a look. This app is available
> in the web, but a little bit hidden, if you do not know its exactly name.
Better would be to send the URL. What CMS is it in, CVS, SVN, something
else? I'd be interested in preserving the source code history as much
as possible and then moving that into Git.
- Nate
[1] http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/
[2] https://freedos.org/
[3] https://www.qemu.org/
[4]
https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox#Debian_10_.22Buster.22_and_Debian_11_.22Bullseye.22
--
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
On 11/21/2021 05:54 AM, Hans wrote: [snip] I can send the app wherever you want to (attaching it here, does not allow to send the mail strangely), so everyone can take a look. This app is available in the web, but a little bit hidden, if you do not know its exactly name. And the name of this mysteriously hidden app might be ???
Offtopic: Transfer a programm from DOS to Linux
Hello list,
I know, there are lots of coders here and I have a question. There is an old
DOS application I found, which is open source and GPL.
As far as I know, this application is written in C, it is running in textmode
("ncurses-mode").
Since there is no similar linux based application like this, I wondered, ho
difficult for an experienced coder it will be, to get a DOS application
natively running in linux.
For those, who are interested, this is what this application is for:
The application is for radio enthusiasts. It can recognize every radio
transceiver with its transmission. This is because every radio transceiver has
its very personally transient response, just like a fingerprint. This
application gets its signal then from the if-module via the souzndcard and
shows the very special transient response as a graphic. These graphic can be
named and whenever the transceiver is sending again, it will be recognized.
Very useful to recognize and rerecognize unwanted stations.
I can send the app wherever you want to (attaching it here, does not allow to
send the mail strangely), so everyone can take a look. This app is available
in the web, but a little bit hidden, if you do not know its exactly name.
The original author of the application has sadly passed by many years ago, but
as I said, it is GPL. If someone is bored, he can do with it, whatever he
wants.
Long text, short question: As I am no coder, though I would like to know, how
much time (roughly estimated, not exactly!) an experienced coder would need
and if this would be possible at all. How many hours do you think? Is DOS C
and Linux C compatible, so that such thing could be easy?
I will be happy of all feedback!
Best regards
Hans
