Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Friday, September 13, 2013 3:40:01 AM UTC-5, Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: Greetings All! This is a great idea. It is not the typical solution. Having the ability for less experienced Linux operators able to effectively run, maintain and improve their system would enhance the acceptance. Wikis aren't working: There are many; which one to choose is always the question. There are few that have time stamps or version relevance. The user must know the package needing adjustments. Each time there is an upgrade to the kernel or package, the wiki would need to be updated. Like taking a prescription, the prescriber must know what other drugs are being taken to understand interactions; how will a wiki handle this? I like the idea of a tool that would scan the system, identify all components, packages and versions. Locate all configuration files. Being able to present this information would be valuable in itself. The advantage here is that the tool will identify the system. This will provide the opportunity for a focused, automated search. More simply, with the system id, the tool could provide a method to link to version specific, existing how-tos; that is, re-use existing collateral. This would be a first step; bring value in a short time. The refinement would be how to query these target tombs for specific solutions. Next would be converting a specific enquiry to a parsing rule to locate the configuration stanzas for modification. Then, determining the specific modifications and producing code to execute it (the tools knows where everything is located). I like it. Great idea Jarrod. Ray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/9801f5e3-24e9-458b-a5da-a70d3d12d...@googlegroups.com
Re: Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Le 14.09.2013 10:25, Jarrod O'Flaherty a écrit : Yes! That's it, essentially. You have put it very well here. I wish I had described it in that way. I am, in a nutshell, looking to make the process of applying what we find on Wikis and message boards -- all of which is fantastically helpful -- to our systems just that much easier. So, what you are planning to do is a meta search-engine, which would be able to build template from current internet's content, and then generate the final solution for the user. Two lines of text. Probably dozens of month-man work. Not simply a couple of hours a month. Do not think that programming is easy. Well, I am not against that idea, but I will not contribute, I do not think you will be able to even reach the beta state. Anyway, let me give you some hints, for both your technical and communication points. _ stop using as much '!'. No need to mimic advertisements like lose 30Kg in 2 weeks! Without private yourself to eat good stuff!. I always wondered how those ads could work by taking people as fools like that... and your posts really shares such kind of points: too many enthusiasm, only showing points on a subjective and very positive point, etc. Plus, being too enthusiastic is a characteristic of people which does not have a lot of programming experience. I might be wrong, but, what if I assert you know programming since less than 3 years? _ stop using html when you are writing to a mailing list. I do not know for other clients, but mine support it, and it makes your text appear way too big. I can zoom to adjust it, but decent sized text then are too small, and it's boring. _ make a real description of your project. Show that you thought about it at least a little and it's not just an idea. People will not be convinced by just an idea. Even better, try to have a scale model to show. This will prove to people that you are actually serious and have real skills. Remember that projects always have drawbacks, and do not hesitate to say what they are. Be honest, in fact. _ take a look at debtags. It might help you to have ideas about how to do what I think you want to do, because installing softwares is the really first step of system administration. I do not know for synaptic, but aptitude did not really evolved to manage debtags and multi-arch correctly (in other problems it have, but it still is a good tool). _ being too enthusiastic for a project without clear objectives usually ends by over-engineering, which in turn makes the project hard to maintain, and dying before even reaching the beta stage. Now, do not feel insulted by things I said, I had the same problem before, was very, very enthusiast for my projects, at least for the 1st month of real work. Then, all of them died, it took more or less time, but they all did without reaching the beta stage. I think it's the normal way for people who likes programming. But liking programs is not enough to manage a project. First, show your skill with simple projects, that you can finish yourself, and then, slowly, move on bigger and bigger projects, when you'll have more experience. Anyway, I sincerely wish you good luck. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/b83b189f9221f0bf49bd166096442...@neutralite.org
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Hi John, Thanks for replying! I'm not a programmer but I do have a opinion. Webmin is already my 'go to' tool for a lot of those chores. The problem is it is too generic and not specific to Debian. A good place to start would be to get involved as a module writer for Webmin that is SPECIFIC to to Debian or generate an installable current Debianized fork with modules that are relative and preset for Debian. If not that then devise a system of I will look into Webmin. Thanks for letting me know about the tool! If the assembled team thinks supporting an existing tool is a better bet, then Webmin sounds like a good candidate. I would be willing to offer critiques from a user point and ideas if you get this rolling. I think its a good idea. Great! Thank you for your offer. I'll post to debian-user when we get a dedicated messaging channel up, and those who wish to follow our progress can subscribe and do so! Thanks again! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Hi Darko, Thank you for your comments. Cool idea but takes all the fun out of Debian. :-) On a more serious note though, having had the unfortunate pleasure of working with the family of *BSD's and Solaris' -- Debian is by far the easiest to administer and work with. I think the other issue you will have, as have been stated, is that there are so many configurations and variations of configuration options out there, that it would be very difficult to make something as all encompassing that would please a majority. I'm thinking along the lines of a Wiki style system where the (expert user) community contributes the recipes to the database, in much the same way that they currently contribute to the message board database by answering people's posted queries. You are right in saying that there are lots of configurations and variations of options out there. Working out a system that can cope with this will be a significant part of the challenge. I think we might find some help there though in the dpkg system which seems to do a very good job of dealing with its relevant configuration details. Thanks again for your input! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Hi Lisi, Thanks for your reply, and letting me know about Libranet too. You could do worse than find a copy of the admin assistant and work it up. It was Open Source software so the code is all there. I have the disks that were released when the next version of Libranet became current, and if you were interested could let you have them. I actually have the dead ones too. Sounds very interesting! Do you have a link to a repository or site where the code is available? How easy is it to add new recipes to the tool? Let me know if you have any time to spare on the project too! Thanks again. Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Hi Joel, Thank you for your candid feedback on the idea! Glad to know that a bit of what I am proposing seemed to hit a chord with you! Too bad that I didn't manage to convince you to collaborate on the project -- perhaps down the track?? Certainly, updating the Wikis is a worthy goal! But the size of the database means, yes, it sounds like you are trying to write a dynamic interface to the wikis, while you are at it. Yes! That's it, essentially. You have put it very well here. I wish I had described it in that way. I am, in a nutshell, looking to make the process of applying what we find on Wikis and message boards -- all of which is fantastically helpful -- to our systems just that much easier. Well, how about we start trying to make the wikis more accessible, and more up to date, first? I believe we are essentially thinking along the same lines here. It's just a slightly different take on how we access the Wikis and other great knowledge-base resources that we have out there. Thanks again for your great feedback. Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:34:35PM -0700, Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: I'm thinking along the lines of a Wiki style system where the (expert user) community contributes the recipes to the database, in much the same way that they currently contribute to the message board database by answering people's posted queries. It might be interesting if it didn't involve a yucky horrible forum style interface. I believe that sentence is an oxymoron. :) -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130914112619.GA15641@tal
One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Greetings All! This is a call to Debian programmers who would be interested in spending a couple hours a month working with me on developing a One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool -- a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. CONCEPT OUTLINE = The tool will (subject to the approval of the collaborators ;) : 1. Drastically reduce the need to: a) Google every time you want to tweak feature X of package Y. b) Post to message boards when Googling fails to deliver the goods. 2. Provide users with an (ever-growing!) common repository of step-by-step recipes by which they can tweak / fix / customize / build / repair / upgrade their systems. 3. Present each step of a recipe in the form of a regular shell command, so it can be easily checked, easily modified, and -- most importantly! -- easily applied. 4. Eliminate the need to copy and paste said shell commands by providing a special terminal window as part of the interface. 5. Reduce or altogether eliminate the need to edit the shell commands by intelligently substituting installation-specific pathnames, module names, version numbers, etc. into the commands as appropriate. 6. Allow you to search the recipes using a goal-based syntax similar to the following: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt 7. Facilitate the sending of feedback to report successes and failures using a given recipe, automatically collecting and attaching to it relevant information on the system setup as well as any (error) messages that were output during the process. 8. Play The Imperial March every time you report using a recipe successfully. (H. Then again, there could be some licensing problems there.) All frivolity aside, let's start talking about how to automate the system configuration and administration process the same way the rest of the *NIX world is automated! HOW TO GET INVOLVED Those interested should email me ( jofs...@yahoo.com ) with their: * Name * Languages Spoken/Written * Timezone of Residence * Linux Background and Proficiency * Linux Flavors Used * Programming Experience * Ways You Would Like to Help Anyone and everyone who enjoys using Linux is welcome to join. And if you would like to participate but are unsure as to how to do so, let me suggest that collaborators can, initially at least, be of greatest assistance in: * Setting up a project homepage. * Setting up a mailing list or equivalent by which collaborators can communicate. * Helping to flesh out the project scope and requirements. * Drafting up a design document and work plan. * Creating a document code repository on Github or similar. Come and join me in collaborating on a tool that's going to be the biggest revolution in Linux-box interaction since .inputrc got history-search-backward! Look forward to hearing from you! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Such a thingy likely would be more complicated to use, than editing configuration files the old KISS way and in addition it likely will add extra bugs and would make Debian less configurable or it would become a bloated monster with tons of modules, so it would become much more complicated and would add much more extra bugs. IMO it is a step in the wrong direction. It would be better to go the other way around and to get rid of similar GUIs and instead to write more good Wikis how to configure an install using a normal editor. 2 Cents, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1379065417.1061.134.camel@archlinux
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
An example for my argumentation. On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 01:36 -0700, Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt I want to: make the desktop icon fonts bigger For what WM, DE? You already need knowledge to know GTK, you need knowledge about valid values. I want to: get rid of xruns What do you want provide? A troubleshooting list for all use cases and all possible situations? How many TiB should the database become? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1379065917.1061.141.camel@archlinux
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 01:36 -0700, Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: Greetings All! This is a call to Debian programmers who would be interested in spending a couple hours a month working with me on developing a One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool -- a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. CONCEPT OUTLINE = The tool will (subject to the approval of the collaborators ;) : 1. Drastically reduce the need to: a) Google every time you want to tweak feature X of package Y. b) Post to message boards when Googling fails to deliver the goods. 2. Provide users with an (ever-growing!) common repository of step-by-step recipes by which they can tweak / fix / customize / build / repair / upgrade their systems. 3. Present each step of a recipe in the form of a regular shell command, so it can be easily checked, easily modified, and -- most importantly! -- easily applied. 4. Eliminate the need to copy and paste said shell commands by providing a special terminal window as part of the interface. 5. Reduce or altogether eliminate the need to edit the shell commands by intelligently substituting installation-specific pathnames, module names, version numbers, etc. into the commands as appropriate. 6. Allow you to search the recipes using a goal-based syntax similar to the following: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt 7. Facilitate the sending of feedback to report successes and failures using a given recipe, automatically collecting and attaching to it relevant information on the system setup as well as any (error) messages that were output during the process. 8. Play The Imperial March every time you report using a recipe successfully. (H. Then again, there could be some licensing problems there.) All frivolity aside, let's start talking about how to automate the system configuration and administration process the same way the rest of the *NIX world is automated! HOW TO GET INVOLVED Those interested should email me ( jofs...@yahoo.com ) with their: * Name * Languages Spoken/Written * Timezone of Residence * Linux Background and Proficiency * Linux Flavors Used * Programming Experience * Ways You Would Like to Help Anyone and everyone who enjoys using Linux is welcome to join. And if you would like to participate but are unsure as to how to do so, let me suggest that collaborators can, initially at least, be of greatest assistance in: * Setting up a project homepage. * Setting up a mailing list or equivalent by which collaborators can communicate. * Helping to flesh out the project scope and requirements. * Drafting up a design document and work plan. * Creating a document code repository on Github or similar. Come and join me in collaborating on a tool that's going to be the biggest revolution in Linux-box interaction since .inputrc got history-search-backward! Look forward to hearing from you! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty. - I'm not a programmer but I do have a opinion. Webmin is already my 'go to' tool for a lot of those chores. The problem is it is too generic and not specific to Debian. A good place to start would be to get involved as a module writer for Webmin that is SPECIFIC to to Debian or generate an installable current Debianized fork with modules that are relative and preset for Debian. If not that then devise a system of similar capability. As far as I know the only real issue with Webmin is its just not broad based enough, and with mostly one developer, Jaime has done a remarkable job. My rarely expressed 2 cents worth. I would be willing to offer critiques from a user point and ideas if you get this rolling. I think its a good idea. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1379083070.9996.7.ca...@beast.home
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
Hi Ralf, Thanks for your very prompt and very candid feedback! wrong direction. It would be better to go the other way around and to get rid of similar GUIs and instead to write more good Wikis how to configure an install using a normal editor. If I may be so bold, let me suggest that we are actually thinking along quite similar lines! What do you want provide? A troubleshooting list for all use cases and all possible situations? How many TiB should the database become? Ultimately, yes! The database would potentially become very large but it would be hosted (a cloud service or the like) with the user only downloading the solutions they need as they need them. In one sense, a compendium of the most frequent queries on Stackoverflow, LinuxQuestions, Ubuntuforums et al. Perhaps you -- or another member of the Debian community -- can suggest a medium outside of 'debian-user' where we can discuss in further detail the pros and cons of my proposal. I am sure I can get some good ideas for what form it should take from your objections to it! A good weekend to Ralf and everyone else. Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Sep 13, 2013 4:37 AM, Jarrod O'Flaherty jofs...@yahoo.com wrote: Greetings All! This is a call to Debian programmers who would be interested in spending a couple hours a month working with me on developing a One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool -- a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. CONCEPT OUTLINE = The tool will (subject to the approval of the collaborators ;) : 1. Drastically reduce the need to: a) Google every time you want to tweak feature X of package Y. b) Post to message boards when Googling fails to deliver the goods. 2. Provide users with an (ever-growing!) common repository of step-by-step recipes by which they can tweak / fix / customize / build / repair / upgrade their systems. 3. Present each step of a recipe in the form of a regular shell command, so it can be easily checked, easily modified, and -- most importantly! -- easily applied. 4. Eliminate the need to copy and paste said shell commands by providing a special terminal window as part of the interface. 5. Reduce or altogether eliminate the need to edit the shell commands by intelligently substituting installation-specific pathnames, module names, version numbers, etc. into the commands as appropriate. 6. Allow you to search the recipes using a goal-based syntax similar to the following: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt 7. Facilitate the sending of feedback to report successes and failures using a given recipe, automatically collecting and attaching to it relevant information on the system setup as well as any (error) messages that were output during the process. 8. Play The Imperial March every time you report using a recipe successfully. (H. Then again, there could be some licensing problems there.) All frivolity aside, let's start talking about how to automate the system configuration and administration process the same way the rest of the *NIX world is automated! HOW TO GET INVOLVED Those interested should email me ( jofs...@yahoo.com ) with their: * Name * Languages Spoken/Written * Timezone of Residence * Linux Background and Proficiency * Linux Flavors Used * Programming Experience * Ways You Would Like to Help Anyone and everyone who enjoys using Linux is welcome to join. And if you would like to participate but are unsure as to how to do so, let me suggest that collaborators can, initially at least, be of greatest assistance in: * Setting up a project homepage. * Setting up a mailing list or equivalent by which collaborators can communicate. * Helping to flesh out the project scope and requirements. * Drafting up a design document and work plan. * Creating a document code repository on Github or similar. Come and join me in collaborating on a tool that's going to be the biggest revolution in Linux-box interaction since .inputrc got history-search-backward! Look forward to hearing from you! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty. Cool idea but takes all the fun out of Debian. :-) On a more serious note though, having had the unfortunate pleasure of working with the family of *BSD's and Solaris' -- Debian is by far the easiest to administer and work with. I think the other issue you will have, as have been stated, is that there are so many configurations and variations of configuration options out there, that it would be very difficult to make something as all encompassing that would please a majority.
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:51:57 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: An example for my argumentation. On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 01:36 -0700, Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt I want to: make the desktop icon fonts bigger For what WM, DE? You already need knowledge to know GTK, you need knowledge about valid values. I want to: get rid of xruns What do you want provide? A troubleshooting list for all use cases and all possible situations? How many TiB should the database become? I agree. Furthermore, this would make bloat on our systems, making us illusion of power, while in fact making us lose control of our systems. This is exactly the way nasty entities cheat us in order to take control on us instead of we control ourselves. People that want to control themselves never made problems. Problems make people that want to control other people. -- Marko Ranđelović, B.Sc. Software Developer Niš, Serbia marko...@eunet.rs http://mr.flossdaily.org Note: If you see a nonsense enclosed between lines BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE END PGP SIGNATURE then this message is digitally signed using OpenPGP compliant software. You need an appropriate plugin for your email client or other OpenPGP compliant software in order to verify the signature. However, the concept of computer insecurity implies digital signature is not absolute proof of identity. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130913223038.10b67...@eunet.rs
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
From: Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com So sorry, Jarrod. I really must succeed in changing my method and using L instead of clicking reply. :-( Sending to list as originally intended. On Friday 13 September 2013 09:36:50 Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. Libranet, which was based on Debian in the sense that it used actual debian repositories in addition to its own, had an admin assistant. When its copyright holder killed Libranet off, those of us who wanted to go on using Libranet simply commented out the Libranet repositories and went on using Sarge. The admin tool didn't work very well for Etch, so it sadly died. I think it was just what you suggest. It did not do everything possible, but it did do everything basic and a little bit more. For the rest there is always the CLI. ;-) You could do worse than find a copy of the admin assistant and work it up. It was Open Source software so the code is all there. I have the disks that were released when the next version of Libranet became current, and if you were interested could let you have them. I actually have the dead ones too. Lisi On Friday 13 September 2013 09:36:50 Jarrod O'Flaherty wrote: Greetings All! This is a call to Debian programmers who would be interested in spending a couple hours a month working with me on developing a One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool -- a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. CONCEPT OUTLINE = The tool will (subject to the approval of the collaborators ;) : 1. Drastically reduce the need to: a) Google every time you want to tweak feature X of package Y. b) Post to message boards when Googling fails to deliver the goods. 2. Provide users with an (ever-growing!) common repository of step-by-step recipes by which they can tweak / fix / customize / build / repair / upgrade their systems. 3. Present each step of a recipe in the form of a regular shell command, so it can be easily checked, easily modified, and -- most importantly! -- easily applied. 4. Eliminate the need to copy and paste said shell commands by providing a special terminal window as part of the interface. 5. Reduce or altogether eliminate the need to edit the shell commands by intelligently substituting installation-specific pathnames, module names, version numbers, etc. into the commands as appropriate. 6. Allow you to search the recipes using a goal-based syntax similar to the following: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt 7. Facilitate the sending of feedback to report successes and failures using a given recipe, automatically collecting and attaching to it relevant information on the system setup as well as any (error) messages that were output during the process. 8. Play The Imperial March every time you report using a recipe successfully. (H. Then again, there could be some licensing problems there.) All frivolity aside, let's start talking about how to automate the system configuration and administration process the same way the rest of the *NIX world is automated! HOW TO GET INVOLVED Those interested should email me ( jofs...@yahoo.com ) with their: * Name * Languages Spoken/Written * Timezone of Residence * Linux Background and Proficiency * Linux Flavors Used * Programming Experience * Ways You Would Like to Help Anyone and everyone who enjoys using Linux is welcome to join. And if you would like to participate but are unsure as to how to do so, let me suggest that collaborators can, initially at least, be of greatest assistance in: * Setting up a project homepage. * Setting up a mailing list or equivalent by which collaborators can communicate. * Helping to flesh out the project scope and requirements. * Drafting up a design document and work plan. * Creating a document code repository on Github or similar. Come and join me in collaborating on a tool that's going to be the biggest revolution in Linux-box interaction since .inputrc got history-search-backward! Look forward to hearing from you! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201309132234.56814.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool: Call for Collaborators!
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Jarrod O'Flaherty jofs...@yahoo.com wrote: Greetings All! This is a call to Debian programmers who would be interested in spending a couple hours a month Pipe dreams. working with me on developing a One-Stop Debian Box Config Tool -- Possibly doable for a limited subset of common configurations for some specific set of uses. Several such configuration tools for computers to be used in a school lab. (And none of them do more than get you started sort of reasonably well.) a tool intended to become the central and all-encompassing place to go to configure any and every aspect of your Debian system. Pipe dreams. CONCEPT OUTLINE = The tool will (subject to the approval of the collaborators ;) : 1. Drastically reduce the need to: a) Google every time you want to tweak feature X of package Y. Ergo, the wikis. b) Post to message boards when Googling fails to deliver the goods. So where do you go when the tool fails to produce? 2. Provide users with an (ever-growing!) common repository of step-by-step recipes by which they can tweak / fix / customize / build / repair / upgrade their systems. Ergo, the wikis. 3. Present each step of a recipe in the form of a regular shell command, so it can be easily checked, easily modified, and -- most importantly! -- easily applied. What? No GUI? Okay, points for this one. Sort of. But we are still looking at the wikis. 4. Eliminate the need to copy and paste said shell commands by providing a special terminal window as part of the interface. With the script sitting in the window waiting to be tweaked and/or run? Cool. Has BBEdit opened their source code, or are you using EMACS? Or has someone gone to the trouble of writing a new implementation of the editor-as-shell function? 5. Reduce or altogether eliminate the need to edit the shell commands by intelligently substituting installation-specific pathnames, module names, version numbers, etc. into the commands as appropriate. Wow. Not just editor-as-shell, but templates, and a knowledge base that figures out what to put where in the templates. Such a beast would put sysadmins OUT OF WORK!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? :-) But the size of the database means, yes, it sounds like you are trying to write a dynamic interface to the wikis, while you are at it. 6. Allow you to search the recipes using a goal-based syntax similar to the following: PATTERN) I want to: VERB + OBJECT [ + to + VALUE ] EXAMPLE) I want to: change the default GTK font size to 18pt 7. Facilitate the sending of feedback to report successes and failures using a given recipe, automatically collecting and attaching to it relevant information on the system setup as well as any (error) messages that were output during the process. 8. Play The Imperial March every time you report using a recipe successfully. (H. Then again, there could be some licensing problems there.) All frivolity aside, let's start talking about how to automate the system configuration and administration process the same way the rest of the *NIX world is automated! Well, how about we start trying to make the wikis more accessible, and more up to date, first? HOW TO GET INVOLVED Those interested should email me ( jofs...@yahoo.com ) with their: * Name * Languages Spoken/Written * Timezone of Residence * Linux Background and Proficiency * Linux Flavors Used * Programming Experience * Ways You Would Like to Help Anyone and everyone who enjoys using Linux is welcome to join. And if you would like to participate but are unsure as to how to do so, let me suggest that collaborators can, initially at least, be of greatest assistance in: * Setting up a project homepage. * Setting up a mailing list or equivalent by which collaborators can communicate. * Helping to flesh out the project scope and requirements. * Drafting up a design document and work plan. * Creating a document code repository on Github or similar. Come and join me in collaborating on a tool that's going to be the biggest revolution in Linux-box interaction since .inputrc got history-search-backward! Look forward to hearing from you! Yours Sincerely, Jarrod O'Flaherty. Not really wanting to be a wet blanket, but your goals are way too big. (And you aren't the first to suggest the idea, so you can look at the successes and failures of past efforts to get some idea of why you're going to get a lot of resistance on this idea.) I do keep thinking it would be nice to have the wikis more up-to-date and more complete and more accessible. If I have time, I think I'll go support those first. Hope you don't mind. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact
