Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
Stefan Nobis wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith G. Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KGM If the Amiga folks are not going to use any of the GNU tools, or KGM dpkg/apt especially, that would be a perverse decision. In fact, KGM not making it based on/compatible with m68k Debian would be KGM perverse, seems to me. I think you still missunderstand the point. The Amiga folks is looking for a new kernel. The will take the Linux kernel, cause there are much device drivers, so they are only interested in hardware support. Around this kernel they will make an AmigaOS. So nothing will look like a Linux, not the command line, not the GUI and there is a good chance even the API will not look like the Linux API. It will be the innermost section of the OS which is based on Linux. As i understand the text, you can say, Linux is something like the Hardware Abstraction Layer of NT for the new AmigaOS. And on this Linux, which is there to support more hardware, a complete AmigaOS is set on top. And with this AmigaOS the user and even the programmer has to deal, so neither of them will see anything of Linux. And from this point of view, the hole thing has nothing to do with any Linux-Distribution. It is a Linux distribution by definition. Just a highly unusual one. You've shown, however that, for example, Debian would not be an appropriate choice, given the decision to only use the Linux kernel. I would question that very decision, though. Think, for example, of all the software their users will forego being able to use if *all* they're using is the kernel... And they still have all the effort associated with solely maintaining their distribution. But I guess they don't want to tick off their old user base. Maybe the developers don't want any competition from open source, either. What *I* would have wanted would just be a boot manager like LILO or System Commander so I could still run my old stuff (games) the old way. Or, AmigEMU. :-) And if they take gcc as their compiler or use the dpkg/apt package tools for managing installed software is quite another question - it matters as much as asking, why not using dpkg/apt tools for windows for software installation/administration. It would seem to me more comparable to Mac with the Mach/BSD kernel, and, I guess, no BSD utilities or binary compatibility with anything else. It makes more apparent sense for Mac, though, with a larger existing user and developer base. Still, only time will tell. I hope it's something nifty.
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith G. Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KGM If the Amiga folks are not going to use any of the GNU tools, or KGM dpkg/apt especially, that would be a perverse decision. In fact, KGM not making it based on/compatible with m68k Debian would be KGM perverse, seems to me. I think you still missunderstand the point. The Amiga folks is looking for a new kernel. The will take the Linux kernel, cause there are much device drivers, so they are only interested in hardware support. Around this kernel they will make an AmigaOS. So nothing will look like a Linux, not the command line, not the GUI and there is a good chance even the API will not look like the Linux API. It will be the innermost section of the OS which is based on Linux. As i understand the text, you can say, Linux is something like the Hardware Abstraction Layer of NT for the new AmigaOS. And on this Linux, which is there to support more hardware, a complete AmigaOS is set on top. And with this AmigaOS the user and even the programmer has to deal, so neither of them will see anything of Linux. And from this point of view, the hole thing has nothing to do with any Linux-Distribution. And if they take gcc as their compiler or use the dpkg/apt package tools for managing installed software is quite another question - it matters as much as asking, why not using dpkg/apt tools for windows for software installation/administration. -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.
RE: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith G. Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: snip for a new kernel. The will take the Linux kernel, cause there are much device drivers, so they are only interested in hardware support. Around this kernel they will make an AmigaOS. So nothing will look like a Linux, not the command line, not the GUI and there is a good chance even the API will not look like the Linux API. It will be the innermost section of the OS which is based on Linux. As i understand the text, you can say, Linux is something like the Hardware Abstraction Layer of NT for the new AmigaOS. And on this Linux, which is there to support more hardware, a complete AmigaOS is set on top. And with this AmigaOS the user and even the programmer has to deal, so neither of them will see anything of Linux. And from this point of view, the hole thing has nothing to do with any Linux-Distribution. Well, they are distributing an OS with the Linux kernel. IMO, that makes it a Linux distribution. If they don't use GNU tools, then it's not a GNU distribution of Linux, though. It still won't have a look familiar to GNU/Linux users, or freeBSD users, or any other *nix user, so it's a safe bet that they won't be stealing from the GNU/Linux userbase. Just my $.02. --David -- === David Karlin mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://funk48.home.travelin.com Powered by Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 ===
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
Brian Servis wrote: *- On 13 Jul, Keith G. Murphy wrote about Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces? Brian Servis wrote: [cut] They are not making another distribution. They are just using the Linux kernel, most other things will be all Amiga, of course they will be bound by the GPL to release any improvements they make to the kernel. Read the following for more info: http://www.amigactive.com/newsitems/11071999-lnx.html Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. I would quibble, however, and contend that this *is* yet another Linux distribution: it is a distribution of an OS that includes the Linux kernel. That's a Linux distribution by definition, AFAIK. Also, there's this: Amiga assure us that the AmigaSoft Operating Environment will not be just another Linux distribution. Meaning, in usual speech, that it is *a* Linux distribution (not *just* another, though). They're insane if they don't base it on Debian, considering the work that's already been done on m68k machines. I mean, the debs are there and ready to be used, man! I think you misunderstand, I am not an expert but it doesn't sound like they are going to use any of the userland tools, i.e. the stuff that makes Debian Debian or Redhat Redhat. They are just going to use the kernel which is the interface between the software and the hardware and is completely independent of ANY 'distribution' that is run on top of it. For that matter Microsoft could choose to use the Linux kernel and still have the same 'distribution' as they have now. Well, in my view, that would be a Linux distribution. (Also not being an expert). It wouldn't be a GNU/Linux distribution, though. Let's not go on that jihad here, though. ;-) At one time, Tom Christiansen was talking about doing a distribution that was a Linux kernel with BSD tools, rather than GNU. IIRC, he called it a Linux distribution. (I think he was just doing it to irritate the FSF. Is it still an extant project?) If the Amiga folks are not going to use any of the GNU tools, or dpkg/apt especially, that would be a perverse decision. In fact, not making it based on/compatible with m68k Debian would be perverse, seems to me. -- ... if the problem persists ... get a 3.5 ft ... length of sucker rod and have a chat with the user in question. -- Linux System Administration, SYSLOGD (8), page 7 (Dealing with DOS attacks exploiting SYSLOGD)
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
Brian Servis wrote: *- On 12 Jul, Keith G. Murphy wrote about Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces? Chrisopher D. Judd wrote: Hi, This is not Debian related, but if you're interested have a look at http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/linux-e.html. Sounds like he really knows what he's doing. Also, look at: http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/990710-e.html for an update. I wonder if they've talked with the Debian developers, or Amigas will sell with yet another distribution? They are not making another distribution. They are just using the Linux kernel, most other things will be all Amiga, of course they will be bound by the GPL to release any improvements they make to the kernel. Read the following for more info: http://www.amigactive.com/newsitems/11071999-lnx.html Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. I would quibble, however, and contend that this *is* yet another Linux distribution: it is a distribution of an OS that includes the Linux kernel. That's a Linux distribution by definition, AFAIK. Also, there's this: Amiga assure us that the AmigaSoft Operating Environment will not be just another Linux distribution. Meaning, in usual speech, that it is *a* Linux distribution (not *just* another, though). They're insane if they don't base it on Debian, considering the work that's already been done on m68k machines. I mean, the debs are there and ready to be used, man! I'd be running Linux on my old Amiga right now if (1) There were drivers for my GVP disk controller. (2) Supported Ethernet cards for the Amiga weren't so *damned* expensive.
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
*- On 13 Jul, Keith G. Murphy wrote about Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces? Brian Servis wrote: *- On 12 Jul, Keith G. Murphy wrote about Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces? Chrisopher D. Judd wrote: Hi, This is not Debian related, but if you're interested have a look at http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/linux-e.html. Sounds like he really knows what he's doing. Also, look at: http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/990710-e.html for an update. I wonder if they've talked with the Debian developers, or Amigas will sell with yet another distribution? They are not making another distribution. They are just using the Linux kernel, most other things will be all Amiga, of course they will be bound by the GPL to release any improvements they make to the kernel. Read the following for more info: http://www.amigactive.com/newsitems/11071999-lnx.html Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. I would quibble, however, and contend that this *is* yet another Linux distribution: it is a distribution of an OS that includes the Linux kernel. That's a Linux distribution by definition, AFAIK. Also, there's this: Amiga assure us that the AmigaSoft Operating Environment will not be just another Linux distribution. Meaning, in usual speech, that it is *a* Linux distribution (not *just* another, though). They're insane if they don't base it on Debian, considering the work that's already been done on m68k machines. I mean, the debs are there and ready to be used, man! I think you misunderstand, I am not an expert but it doesn't sound like they are going to use any of the userland tools, i.e. the stuff that makes Debian Debian or Redhat Redhat. They are just going to use the kernel which is the interface between the software and the hardware and is completely independent of ANY 'distribution' that is run on top of it. For that matter Microsoft could choose to use the Linux kernel and still have the same 'distribution' as they have now. -- Brian - Mechanical Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] Purdue University http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~servis -
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
Chrisopher D. Judd wrote: Hi, This is not Debian related, but if you're interested have a look at http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/linux-e.html. Sounds like he really knows what he's doing. Also, look at: http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/990710-e.html for an update. I wonder if they've talked with the Debian developers, or Amigas will sell with yet another distribution? -- ... if the problem persists ... get a 3.5 ft ... length of sucker rod and have a chat with the user in question. -- Linux System Administration, SYSLOGD (8), page 7 (Dealing with DOS attacks exploiting SYSLOGD)
Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces?
*- On 12 Jul, Keith G. Murphy wrote about Re: Offtopic - Amiga and Linux join forces? Chrisopher D. Judd wrote: Hi, This is not Debian related, but if you're interested have a look at http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/linux-e.html. Sounds like he really knows what he's doing. Also, look at: http://www.amiga.com/diary/executive/990710-e.html for an update. I wonder if they've talked with the Debian developers, or Amigas will sell with yet another distribution? They are not making another distribution. They are just using the Linux kernel, most other things will be all Amiga, of course they will be bound by the GPL to release any improvements they make to the kernel. Read the following for more info: http://www.amigactive.com/newsitems/11071999-lnx.html -- Brian - Mechanical Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] Purdue University http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~servis -
