Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 2009074953.ga29...@codelibre.net, Roger Leigh wrote: I write software specifically for Debian as a Debian Developer (schroot, sbuild and other bits). I'd say that those were created by Debian, as is all software created by DDs in their project role. Debian did not remunerate those developers for that specific effort, nor does it (as an organization) hold any legal claim to the software. That's all I meant by Debian doesn't create much software. I wasn't trying to discount the software written by DDs to satisfy Debian needs. (/me loves my cowbuilder setups.) The problem with your approach is that you put something like a corporate yardstick (which software/line of code bears a certain label/brand) on something that is anything but corporate, namely a community effort. Debian is a community project and I'd say that everything someone does with her/his Debian hat on is part of Debian. You don't have to be a DD to submit patches via the bts, but if you do, you contribute to Debian. If you google something on almost any piece of free software, chances are that you'll find links to this mailing list, ie. to support provided by the Debian project. By its nature free software is free, so brand marks and labels are not applied to the software or lines thereof (apart from the licence information, but there is no Debian licence or such). I don't think there will be any objective, scriptable way to quantify the amount of code produced by Debian or any other distribution. If a DD is also a kernel developer, does his/her contribution count as work for Debian or work for the kernel team? There is no way to give a simple, definite answer to that question, IMHO. Cheers, Johannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpoGC4ACgkQC1NzPRl9qEV07ACaA8uRB8YhV8D9OUjIjc/+TE7C GhMAn30F9Tm2irh0xm76o3wrf2Xd5U8S =b7T+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 07:23:02PM -0400, Chris Jones wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 04:27:05PM EDT, Stefan Monnier wrote: What the GNU project has done is give a name and a visibility, defined a set of guidelines (and licenses) and created the expectations that define both the Open Source and the Free Software movement. Enlightening post. Thank you. While I do agree with this perspective, I do think it tends to overly minimize the actual software the FSF produced and maintains, especially gcc and the binutils, which were and are absolutely essential for everything else. I've said before that Linux' portability is gcc's portability, and for that reason alone, we do well to accomodate RMS' request for GNU attribution. -- May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave Craig - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe.' --from _Nightfall_ by Asimov/Silverberg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:46:09PM EDT, David L. Craig wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 07:23:02PM -0400, Chris Jones wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 04:27:05PM EDT, Stefan Monnier wrote: What the GNU project has done is give a name and a visibility, defined a set of guidelines (and licenses) and created the expectations that define both the Open Source and the Free Software movement. Enlightening post. Thank you. While I do agree with this perspective, I do think it tends to overly minimize the actual software the FSF produced and maintains, especially gcc and the binutils, which were and are absolutely essential for everything else. I've said before that Linux' portability is gcc's portability, and for that reason alone, we do well to accomodate RMS' request for GNU attribution. Come to think of it, maybe food for thought was closer to what I meant. And thanks for reminding us of the essential role of gcc, glibc, and binutils. I'm too new to GNU/linux to remember.. but would anything have been possible without them? CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
Neal Hogan wrote: And thanks for reminding us of the essential role of gcc, glibc, and binutils. I'm too new to GNU/linux to remember.. but would anything have been possible without them? yes well sure, if you were working on ITS or some other research operating system, otherwise, the price of commercial compilers and libc (say from Sun) were pretty high, and you ran into licensing issues re. libc -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
Saying GNU doesn't produce software is like saying Debian doesn't produce dpkg, apt-get, and aptitude. There's a big difference: most GNU software was written first and then integrated as part of the GNU project. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
And thanks for reminding us of the essential role of gcc, glibc, and binutils. I'm too new to GNU/linux to remember.. but would anything have been possible without them? yes CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On 2009-07-23 19:51, Miles Fidelman wrote: Neal Hogan wrote: And thanks for reminding us of the essential role of gcc, glibc, and binutils. I'm too new to GNU/linux to remember.. but would anything have been possible without them? yes well sure, if you were working on ITS or some other research operating system, otherwise, the price of commercial compilers and libc (say from Sun) were pretty high, and you ran into licensing issues re. libc BSD had to have a cc before gcc came along, no? -- Scooty Puff, Sr The Doom-Bringer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
Ron Johnson writes: BSD had to have a cc before gcc came along, no? Yes. It shipped with the non-free[1] pcc until 1994 when it was replaced with gcc. [1] There is now a BSD-licensed pcc. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On 2009-07-23 21:04, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: BSD had to have a cc before gcc came along, no? Yes. It shipped with the non-free[1] pcc until 1994 when it was replaced with gcc. Interesting. That must have been part of the fallout from The Lawsuit. -- Scooty Puff, Sr The Doom-Bringer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed,22.Jul.09, 13:25:00, Charlie wrote: Just a general off topic query. I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - The delimiter (dashdashspace) is ok, but then you have an empty line and some more text. At least mutt will show that in the normal color (as in not a signature). Maybe you should try to keep your signature shorter? If you worry about nettiquete please also wrap your lines to *less* than 80 characters. 72 is a good number, allowing also for several levels of quoting. and was told that my signature Linux Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority of it is provided by GNU. GNU stands for GNU's not UNIX and was always meant to be a free operating system, while Linux is a kernel. You could think of it like: the GNU operating system with the Linux kernel, but whatever you name it, neither can work without the other, so yes, the correct name would be some combination of GNU+Linux. OTOH, a modern *desktop* operating system without X and a DE/WM is not very common, so maybe the correct designation should be (in my case) GNU/Linux Xorg/Xfce? I have added GNU - but it may be silly? My own prejudice was that Linux was first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? Or as I asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD Debian or something like that? Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or not be there at all? Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that creates it so? Debian is working on GNU/Hurd (GNU+Hurd kernel) and GNU/kFreeBSD (GNU+FreeBSD kernel). I haven't heard of any plans to make a FreeBSD/Linux or similar combination as it seems the GNU tools are easier to port to a different kernel then the other tools. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
* Charlie aries...@clearmail.com.au [2009 Jul 21 22:26 -0500]: I'm just interested and imagine there will not be a definitive answer to this at all. Without all the silliness, the proper name of the distribution from the main Web page is Debian GNU/Linux X.x. Beyond that the rest is personal preference. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
Charlie wrote: first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? Or as I asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD Debian or something like that? Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or Nate Bargmann already replied about the official name of the Debian distribution. Just FYI, there are actually two flavors of Debian that do not use the linux kernel: Debian GNU/KFreeBSB and Debian GNU/Hurd. Tiago Saboga. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
In 200907221325.01147.aries...@clearmail.com.au, Charlie wrote: I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - and was told that my signature Linux Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority of it is provided by GNU. I'm not sure the GNU project produces the majority of Debian, by any metric. They do provide some of the core utilities (bash, sed, grep, cat, gzip, etc.). However, X and KDE are a big part of Debian and either are a GNU project, neither is either of the official Debian kernels (Linux and kFreeBSD). I have added GNU - but it may be silly? My own prejudice was that Linux was first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? 1. Without Linux there *might* be no Debian. GNU HURD was being worked on, and it would have been possible to use a *BSD kernel before that was finished. However the viability of a Linux kernel and GNU userland definitely played a role in the founding of Debian beyond being technical solutions. 2. The GNU project was around for years before Linux was published. Or as I asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD Debian or something like that? It could have been technically possible, but I think it is reasonable to say that Debian would be very different without Linux, if it would even exist. Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or not be there at all? From what I understand, the official name of the product is Debian GNU/Linux and the official name of the project is just Debian. I thought the GNU/kFreeBSD port became official with Lenny, but perhaps I am mistaken; I can't find any support for that statement. Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that creates it so? Debian doesn't *create* much software.[1] They do a lot of packaging and bug-wrangling, but Debian depends on upstream being available to add features, write new software, and fix non-packaging non-security bugs. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ [1] Technically, Debian doesn't create any software, but many Debian Developers do create software either in their role as DDs or as part of other projects. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
I'm not sure the GNU project produces the majority of Debian, by any metric. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because by and large the GNU project doesn't produce any software. It provides technical, philosophical, ethical, and political support to help and encourage the development and use of Free Software. Part of that is to provide hosting services for some projects (on savannah.gnu.org), but that usually doesn't count as producing. A GNU software package basically is a software whose author(s) have decided they'd like to see their name associated with the GNU, either because they want to show their support for the GNU movement, or because they want their software to benefit from the GNU brand and get some publicity from it, or because they wanted to use the savannah.gnu.org hosting service, or somesuch. Of course, some software authors might be considered as GNU coder either because they have gotten some money from the FSF at some point, or because they've spent enormous amounts of efforts writing code almost exclusively for GNU software. What the GNU project has done is give a name and a visibility, defined a set of guidelines (and licenses) and created the expectations that define both the Open Source and the Free Software movement. It's thanks to the GNU project that we don't have to suffer nearly as much from somewhat Free licenses (like the idiotic freeware, which still plagues the Windows world) because people find them nowadays completely unacceptable. So the GNU project has shaped the world which made Debian possible, and in this sense can be credited just as much for GNU packages as for those packages which do not put GNU next to their name (and even for those who refuse the GPL and/or consider the FSF as dangerous lunatics). Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
In jwveis8qy68.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier wrote: I'm not sure the GNU project produces the majority of Debian, by any metric. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because by and large the GNU project doesn't produce any software. It provides technical, philosophical, ethical, and political support to help and encourage the development and use of Free Software. Part of that is to provide hosting services for some projects (on savannah.gnu.org), but that usually doesn't count as producing. A GNU software package basically is a software whose author(s) have decided they'd like to see their name associated with the GNU, either because they want to show their support for the GNU movement, or because they want their software to benefit from the GNU brand and get some publicity from it, or because they wanted to use the savannah.gnu.org hosting service, or somesuch. They also have to be accepted by the GNU project. Usually this involves limiting or eliminating any non-free bits in their source tree, and not depending on non-free bits at build or run time, as well as passing some usefulness criteria which amounts to not being a complete copy of another piece of GNU software. Saying GNU doesn't produce software is like saying Debian doesn't produce dpkg, apt-get, and aptitude. It's true by some reasoning (Debian doesn't produce software; Debian Developers do), but not an incredibly useful position outside of determining the legal ownership of any IP. Individuals do the work, but they do it as actor for the GNU Project with support from the GNU Project. What the GNU project has done is give a name and a visibility, defined a set of guidelines (and licenses) and created the expectations that define both the Open Source and the Free Software movement. Guidelines with still enchant, enlighten, and drive new hackers to providing more value to society. Big props to GNU, but when I'm talking about my OS, I use Debian or Linux and not GNU to describe it, and I don't have any problem with others doing the same. I do try to use to official name in writing or formal presentations; GNU deserves big props. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:12:54 -0500 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote: Big props to GNU, but when I'm talking about my OS, I use Debian or Linux and not GNU to describe it, and I don't have any problem with others doing the same. I do try to use to official name in writing or formal presentations; GNU deserves big props. Actually, calling the OS Debian (or Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.) seems to make the most sense. The next most logical choice, Debian GNU/Linux/Xorg/Mozilla/KDE/Sun/etc. gets pretty unwieldy. Jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:19:51AM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: In 200907221325.01147.aries...@clearmail.com.au, Charlie wrote: I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - and was told that my signature Linux Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority of it is provided by GNU. I'm not sure the GNU project produces the majority of Debian, by any metric. They do provide some of the core utilities (bash, sed, grep, cat, gzip, etc.). However, X and KDE are a big part of Debian and either are a GNU project, neither is either of the official Debian kernels (Linux and kFreeBSD). s/either/neither/ or your sentence makes little sense. The degree to which various projects make up Debian as a proportion of the total packages or total code size is irrelevant. None of those extra bits are part of the operating system, they are merely software running on top of the operating system. Debian, as I see it, provides in the distribution both the OS (essential/base and basic toolchain) plus a lot of software that runs on top of this. % /usr/share/misc/config.guess x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu [or powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu on my other computer] This indicates that I'm running a linux-gnu operating system on an x86_64 computer architecture from an unknown vendor. The linux part indicates that I'm running a Linux kernel, while the gnu part indicates that I'm running a GNU C library, which is the major part of the platform ABI required for both C standard library calls and system calls which trap into the kernel, as well as other basic features such as the run-time linker. For host triplets *-*-linux-gnu, the GNU/Linux moniker is very much correct. It *is* a GNU system running on top of a Linux kernel. For embedded systems running other C libraries such as µlibc (*-*-linux-ulibc), GNU/Linux is incorrect. It's a Linux kernel, but the system ABI is rather different from the GNU interface, and so for all intents and purposes it's an entirely separate operating system, being very much incompatible with GNU/Linux despite both running identical Linux kernels. You won't be able to run software for linux-ulibc on GNU/Linux, since they are separate systems for all intents and purposes. Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that creates it so? Debian doesn't *create* much software.[1] They do a lot of packaging and bug-wrangling, but Debian depends on upstream being available to add features, write new software, and fix non-packaging non-security bugs. [1] Technically, Debian doesn't create any software, but many Debian Developers do create software either in their role as DDs or as part of other projects. I disagree here. Debian is upstream as well as distributor for quite a lot of software. I write software specifically for Debian as a Debian Developer (schroot, sbuild and other bits). I'd say that those were created by Debian, as is all software created by DDs in their project role. The Debian Project *is* its developers, and so if a Developer creates something, the Project creates something. Debian writes a lot of software you depend upon intimately for your system to work (dpkg, apt, initramfs, and a lot of other low-level glue). DDs are also intimately involved with upstream development for many upstream projects, and this is also work done by the Project, though usually not by name. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
In 2009074953.ga29...@codelibre.net, Roger Leigh wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:19:51AM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Debian doesn't *create* much software.[1] They do a lot of packaging and bug-wrangling, but Debian depends on upstream being available to add features, write new software, and fix non-packaging non-security bugs. [1] Technically, Debian doesn't create any software, but many Debian Developers do create software either in their role as DDs or as part of other projects. I disagree here. Debian is upstream as well as distributor for quite a lot of software. If by quite a lot you mean less than 5% of main, then yes. That's just going off of the number of packages that use native packaging, so it has flaws. Some upstream == Debian packages are non-native, some native packages don't have Debian as upstream. Let me know if you can think of a better (scriptable) way to determine if a package has Debian as upstream. I write software specifically for Debian as a Debian Developer (schroot, sbuild and other bits). I'd say that those were created by Debian, as is all software created by DDs in their project role. Debian did not remunerate those developers for that specific effort, nor does it (as an organization) hold any legal claim to the software. That's all I meant by Debian doesn't create much software. I wasn't trying to discount the software written by DDs to satisfy Debian needs. (/me loves my cowbuilder setups.) -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 04:27:05PM EDT, Stefan Monnier wrote: I'm not sure the GNU project produces the majority of Debian, by any metric. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because by and large the GNU project doesn't produce any software. It provides technical, philosophical, ethical, and political support to help and encourage the development and use of Free Software. Part of that is to provide hosting services for some projects (on savannah.gnu.org), but that usually doesn't count as producing. A GNU software package basically is a software whose author(s) have decided they'd like to see their name associated with the GNU, either because they want to show their support for the GNU movement, or because they want their software to benefit from the GNU brand and get some publicity from it, or because they wanted to use the savannah.gnu.org hosting service, or somesuch. Of course, some software authors might be considered as GNU coder either because they have gotten some money from the FSF at some point, or because they've spent enormous amounts of efforts writing code almost exclusively for GNU software. What the GNU project has done is give a name and a visibility, defined a set of guidelines (and licenses) and created the expectations that define both the Open Source and the Free Software movement. It's thanks to the GNU project that we don't have to suffer nearly as much from somewhat Free licenses (like the idiotic freeware, which still plagues the Windows world) because people find them nowadays completely unacceptable. So the GNU project has shaped the world which made Debian possible, and in this sense can be credited just as much for GNU packages as for those packages which do not put GNU next to their name (and even for those who refuse the GPL and/or consider the FSF as dangerous lunatics). Stefan Enlightening post. Thank you. CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
Charlie wrote: Just a general off topic query. I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - and was told that my signature Linux Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority of it is provided by GNU. I have added GNU - but it may be silly? My own prejudice was that Linux was first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? Or as I asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD Debian or something like that? Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or not be there at all? Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that creates it so? I'm just interested and imagine there will not be a definitive answer to this at all. Be well, Charlie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. -- Albert Einstein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On 2009-07-21 22:25, Charlie wrote: Just a general off topic query. I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - and was told that my signature Linux Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority of it is provided by GNU. I have added GNU - but it may be silly? My own prejudice was that Linux was first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? Or as I asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD Debian or something like that? Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or not be there at all? Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that creates it so? Oh God, not this silliness again! Your environment relies on much more than just Linux and GNU. The people (and their sophomore acolytes) who insist on GNU/Linux are jealous pissed off sour grapes whiners who haven't been able to get a decent Hurd kernel in *20 years*. I'm just interested and imagine there will not be a definitive answer to this at all. Be well, Charlie This () is a Very Bad line separator It really screws up MUAs. -- Scooty Puff, Sr The Doom-Bringer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Raj Kiran Grandhi shared this with us all: --} Charlie wrote: --} Just a general off topic query. --} --} I was recently informed that my signature had a problem rendering correctly on --} someone's mailer - deliniter incorrect - and was told that my signature Linux --} Debian should read Debian GNU/Linux because: considering that the majority --} of it is provided by GNU. --} --} I have added GNU - but it may be silly? My own prejudice was that Linux was --} first so should be first, that without it there would be no Debian? Or as I --} asked my correspondent, who never replied, would there have been an OpenBSD --} Debian or something like that? Then should GNU go before Debian or after? Or --} not be there at all? Even if most comes from GNU Debian is the one that --} creates it so? --} --} I'm just interested and imagine there will not be a definitive answer to this --} at all. --} --} Be well, --} Charlie --} --} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy --} --} -- --} --} If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. --} -- Albert Einstein Thank you for the link. Charlie -- Registered Linux User:- 329524 +++ For many years I was a self-appointed inspector of snowstorms and rainstorms and did my duty faithfully, though I never received payment for it. Henry David Thoreau Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: [OT] GNU - Linux and Debian.......
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:51:34 -0500 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: The people (and their sophomore acolytes) who insist on GNU/Linux are jealous pissed off sour grapes whiners who haven't been able to get a decent Hurd kernel in *20 years*. I'm stealing this for a .sig and will attribute it to either Ron Johnson or Scooty Puff, Sr The Doom-Bringer as you wish, Ron. Cybe R. Wizard -- I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America. Ron Johnson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
