Re: dselect alternatives
Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 06:39, Paul Johnson wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Paul Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DO NOT USE dselect! Why not? Why are you asking me? It wasn't me that said it... Sorry it was ME. Dselect though still useful... is really all about installations, no not After install, during machine initial setup. ever seen: apt-get dselect-upgrade It takes the setting from dpkg --set-selections and runs it through the mill. Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know about that in dselect). Ask Joey Hess about dselect, he will flatly tell you to not use dselect. I'd be surprised by that. I seem to recall Joey switching to aptitude, but I don't recall hearing him ever complain about dselect. I believe Colin will have similar recommends. I'm pretty sure Colin still uses dselect. In fact most developers still have a soft spot for dselect. apt-get is flat out much better. I'd ask you to back that up, but I know you can't... Some people are now recommending aptitude as it has a more sane handling of suggests and recommends. Actually, I've seen aptitude do some pretty bizarre things when it comes to dependency resolution. More than once I've noticed it pulling in packages from experimental without my consent. That's a definite no-no. -- You win again, gravity! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
From: Steven Satelle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:57:43 +, ricktaylor wrote:
Personally, I'd use kpackage or synaptic in X and dselect in a terminal
{mainly because synaptic and kpackage are easier to read... the
I've always found that unless I stick to one package manager - synaptic at
the moment, they resolve deps differently so while running synaptic
says everything is ok, aptitude says there are unresolved deps, so it
decides I need to remove a bunch of packages, I remember once, dselect
decided I needed to remove nearly the whole damm system, and since I
wasnt actually watching what it was saying I said ok. I've used aptitude
for a while but I prefer synaptic's search capabilities. The only thing
wrong with it is by default I like to view my packages grouped by section,
which I need to set up manually
I don't think I've ever had that happen. If I have a problem I usually switch to
dselect. I just feel like I have more control.
Synaptic on Redhat has a menu entry for the above... I've not used Debian since last
year some time... I don't know what the differences between versions of Synaptic are.
I am going to set up the AMD64 thing real soon... :}
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Aptitude, apt-get and dpkg are more than enough to help me out in a command line environ. Actually I do not use any other interfaces for package management. Then... Why are you complaining? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
What are you thinking dselect does for you that apt-get doesn't? well, this is just an anecdote (the singular of data...), but - Yesterday apt-get maliciously lunched my install(okay, okay, I was trying to upgrade firestarter even though apt-get told me to file a bug report because it thought the install was impossible... more on that coming up soon). The X server died horribly, screaming, as a result of things it needed having been scurrilously removed by apt-get (which did sort of warn me that it was had probably clobbered my X-server install) (but only after having already done it, of curse). I only had terminal login. After a 4-hour late-night knock-down drag-out with apt-get, dpkg, and dselect, trying to figure out a way back to from where I came, I was finally able to rescue the install with dselect. Telling it to reconfigure everything it didn't like and then reinstall everything it did like, brought my install back to life. (I was *really* convinced I was looking at a complete reload...) apt-get and dpkg kept generating interlocking package interdependencies that they *just* *could* *not* resolve... There is probably some obscure combination of command syntax and control file entries for either apt-get or dpkg or both that would accomplish the same thing, but no amount of man-page-reading and website-trolling (via Gatesware, since my Debian install was dead) conveyed the appropriate incantations... dselect, on the other hand, despite its blatant inoperability as regards configuring specific behaviors, *was* able to diagnose the corrupted dependencies and rescue the installation, even when operated by a complete idiot. (Pages and pages of dismal output logs from apt-get and dpkg available on demand, if anyone's interested) (which I wouldn't be, if I were you) (No, I DON'T know what I'm doing, I only do what the voices in my head tell me) (Last night, just before I finally rescued the install, they were telling me to clean my guns) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yesterday apt-get maliciously lunched my install (okay, okay, I was trying to upgrade firestarter even though apt-get told me to file a bug report because it thought the install was impossible... more on that coming up soon). :} I'd think this might have been your first clue... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Paul Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 22:35, William F. Dudley Jr. wrote: I was trying to figure out why xsane was dumping core, and fiddling with package selections using dselect, and now dselect wants to uninstall most of the packages: DO NOT USE dselect! Why not? Why are you asking me? It wasn't me that said it... pgp5ff5gXsBDT.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dselect alternatives
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 06:39, Paul Johnson wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Paul Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 22:35, William F. Dudley Jr. wrote: I was trying to figure out why xsane was dumping core, and fiddling with package selections using dselect, and now dselect wants to uninstall most of the packages: DO NOT USE dselect! Why not? Why are you asking me? It wasn't me that said it... Sorry it was ME. Dselect though still useful... is really all about installations, no not After install, during machine initial setup. ever seen: apt-get dselect-upgrade It takes the setting from dpkg --set-selections and runs it through the mill. Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know about that in dselect). Ask Joey Hess about dselect, he will flatly tell you to not use dselect. I believe Colin will have similar recommends. apt-get is flat out much better. Some people are now recommending aptitude as it has a more sane handling of suggests and recommends. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The technology that is Stronger, better, faster: Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: dselect alternatives
--- Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: apt-get is flat out much better. Some people are now recommending aptitude as it has a more sane handling of suggests and recommends. Horses for courses. Aptitude is *far* from a useable product. -- Thomas Adam = The Linux Weekend Mechanic -- http://linuxgazette.net TAG Editor -- http://linuxgazette.net shrug We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :) -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
On (13/07/04 13:36), Thomas Adam wrote: --- Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: apt-get is flat out much better. Some people are now recommending aptitude as it has a more sane handling of suggests and recommends. Horses for courses. Aptitude is *far* from a useable product. FWIW I've been tracking sid using aptitude since last December. I'm pretty sure that had I used apt-get I would have broken my system several times by now. The combination of apt-listbugs and aptitude has saved me from my own ignorance thus far. Horses for courses is undoubtedly right but aptitude seems a good horse for someone who is not very technical (like me) but wants to use sid without losing functionality from time to time. Regards Clive -- http://www.clivemenzies.co.uk strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know about that How's that? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 16:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know about that How's that? I am subscribed to D-U. Mainly apt-get doesn't screw with things that way dselect does, in its nearly-prehistoric methods. Like doing things for you, that you shouldn't without asking Hey, Girl-Pants! Are you really sure you want to be STUPID? If you want apt-get|aptitude to act similarly there are options for em, other wise apt-get|aptitude behave much more friendly. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The technology that is Stronger, better, faster: Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: dselect alternatives
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 16:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know about that
How's that?
Mainly apt-get doesn't screw with things that way dselect does, in its
nearly-prehistoric methods. Like doing things for you, that you
shouldn't without asking Hey, Girl-Pants! Are you really sure you want
to be STUPID?
If you want apt-get|aptitude to act similarly there are options for em,
other wise apt-get|aptitude behave much more friendly.
This is the man page {man apt-get at google} for apt-get, etc.
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+apt-get
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+dselect
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+dpkg
Read the description on the dselect man page.
I've broken installs with any and all of the above mentioned programs. {I've broken
installs with every package manager on debian.} The real point there is that I broke
them.
If you take your time, pay attention to what you're doing, don't try to upgrade a
huge number of packages at once and are just plain careful you don't really have many
problems. {Doing the distribution upgrade thing is arguably safer. ...Those will break
too. They are a little more cut and dried, all of the dependencies are covered, etc...}
Personally, I'd use kpackage or synaptic in X and dselect in a terminal {mainly
because synaptic and kpackage are easier to read... the on-screen information is a
little better organized and so on.}. I think the most important part of the whole
thing is to go at it a few packages at a time and
try to keep things upgraded across the board. It's when you start holding packages or
neglecting to fix broken, low-level stuff that you start to have problems.
What are you thinking dselect does for you that apt-get doesn't?
Re: dselect alternatives
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:57:43 +, ricktaylor wrote:
Personally, I'd use kpackage or synaptic in X and dselect in a terminal
{mainly because synaptic and kpackage are easier to read... the
I've always found that unless I stick to one package manager - synaptic at
the moment, they resolve deps differently so while running synaptic
says everything is ok, aptitude says there are unresolved deps, so it
decides I need to remove a bunch of packages, I remember once, dselect
decided I needed to remove nearly the whole damm system, and since I
wasnt actually watching what it was saying I said ok. I've used aptitude
for a while but I prefer synaptic's search capabilities. The only thing
wrong with it is by default I like to view my packages grouped by section,
which I need to set up manually
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dselect alternatives
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 19:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 16:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Greg Folkert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apt-get has MUCH MUCH better dependency handling (yes I know
about that
How's that?
Mainly apt-get doesn't screw with things that way dselect does, in
its
nearly-prehistoric methods. Like doing things for you, that you
shouldn't without asking Hey, Girl-Pants! Are you really sure you
want
to be STUPID?
If you want apt-get|aptitude to act similarly there are options for
em,
other wise apt-get|aptitude behave much more friendly.
This is the man page {man apt-get at google} for apt-get, etc.
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+apt-get
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+dselect
http://annys.eines.info/cgi-bin/man/man2html?8+dpkg
or how about from a command line:
man apt-get
man dselect
man dpkg
Read the description on the dselect man page.
I have before, but here is the line you mean:
DESCRIPTION
dselect is one of the primary user interfaces for
managing packages on a Debian system.
Let me see.
dselect is *ONE* of the primary user *INTERFACES*
Dog Poo is sufficient to feed you with, you will survive, you may even
grow in size, eating enough of it. But why would you choose to eat Dog
Poo when there is a Good Ole' Hamburger with everything on it sitting
right next to it under a cover? Because you didn't know it was there.
Yes, I akin dselect as a good interface up to and including potato.
After that I do think it has been past it's prime. Yes it still CAN and
DOES pull the bacon from the fire, when it needs to. But puh-lease, it
is only primary because it was there first. A Good first stab at an
interface.
Aptitude is excellent for a curses based interface. Much easier to use
for new-type people. Track auto-installed packages MUCH better. apt-get
is my preferred method of upgrades. I have a pretty long history of
being able to manage with apt-get and straight dpkg after some have
blown-up machines using dselect and it's... umm whacked way of helping
out. dselect has very archaic layout and operational characteristics
that easily confuse new users to Debian, but previously using RedHat or
Mandrake etc... making them Familiar to Linux, but baffled by dselect.
Aptitude, apt-get and dpkg are more than enough to help me out in a
command line environ. Actually I do not use any other interfaces for
package management.
I've broken installs with any and all of the above mentioned
programs. {I've broken installs with every package manager on debian.}
The real point there is that I broke them.
No, arguing there, every machine that broke during an upgrade... was due
to my lack of attention.
If you take your time, pay attention to what you're doing, don't try
to upgrade a huge number of packages at once and are just plain
careful you don't really have many problems. {Doing the distribution
upgrade thing is arguably safer. ...Those will break too. They are a
little more cut and dried, all of the dependencies are covered,
etc...}
Personally, I'd use kpackage or synaptic in X and dselect in a
terminal {mainly because synaptic and kpackage are easier to read...
the on-screen information is a little better organized and so on.}. I
think the most important part of the whole thing is to go at it a few
packages at a time and
try to keep things upgraded across the board. It's when you start
holding packages or neglecting to fix broken, low-level stuff that you
start to have problems.
Yep, I only hold when I have definite issues with explicit versions.
What are you thinking dselect does for you that apt-get doesn't?
For me, it brings me more consulting work from befuddled users/admins
that hit a couple of wrong keys and bork up the production machine by
remove things needed!
So, maybe I *AM* wrong about not liking dselect!
--
greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The technology that is
Stronger, better, faster: Linux
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
