Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/8/2014 2:11 PM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Not on *mine* they don't. Anyone who puts Xorg on a linux server (unless maybe it is their own personal SOHO server - but on an internet facing mail/we server? please...) is insane - imnsho... Are you deliberately being obtuse, or did you miss the the pun? :) If you are running X11 sessions, they run as client/server pairs. (Although, if you are supporting thin client workstations, the X11 server sessions run on the thin client workstations and the X11 client sessions run on the machines usually considered to be the network servers.) Since most Linux-based workstations include both the client and server in one box, you would assume that most desktop Linux-based machines are at least running the X11 server. Which would be to say that it would be really, really hard to have a non-server user list for debian. Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. I was simply looking for a lower bandwidth list that had a more focused traffic. If you have questions, use an appropriate subject line and ask them here to start with and use your calibrated eyeballs to fish the responses out of the list. If there are better lists or other resources, someone here will usually direct you there. If you are interested in learning from the general experiences of others who use debian systems to host various services, again, you can just ignore posts with uninteresting subject lines. I must say, though, I've picked up some good tips for running various services from the middle of flame wars, so I can understand the temptation to read every post. You just have to be willing to miss some of those when you don't have time to read every post. (Which is most of the time for me these days.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart.
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
I've run Debian servers for a number of years. When faced with a problem, Google almost always gets me where I need to go. But that *almost* is crucial. There are smart people on this list who are generous with their time. OP would be wise to subscribe and learn to deal with the traffic. 2 cents. Mark On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/8/2014 2:11 PM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Not on *mine* they don't. Anyone who puts Xorg on a linux server (unless maybe it is their own personal SOHO server - but on an internet facing mail/we server? please...) is insane - imnsho... Are you deliberately being obtuse, or did you miss the the pun? :) If you are running X11 sessions, they run as client/server pairs. (Although, if you are supporting thin client workstations, the X11 server sessions run on the thin client workstations and the X11 client sessions run on the machines usually considered to be the network servers.) Since most Linux-based workstations include both the client and server in one box, you would assume that most desktop Linux-based machines are at least running the X11 server. Which would be to say that it would be really, really hard to have a non-server user list for debian. Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. I was simply looking for a lower bandwidth list that had a more focused traffic. If you have questions, use an appropriate subject line and ask them here to start with and use your calibrated eyeballs to fish the responses out of the list. If there are better lists or other resources, someone here will usually direct you there. If you are interested in learning from the general experiences of others who use debian systems to host various services, again, you can just ignore posts with uninteresting subject lines. I must say, though, I've picked up some good tips for running various services from the middle of flame wars, so I can understand the temptation to read every post. You just have to be willing to miss some of those when you don't have time to read every post. (Which is most of the time for me these days.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cam-_jtnfwogjrqtx7hjcqm+dvchwouzbn0odzmh+uze7zck...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/8/2014 2:11 PM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Not on *mine* they don't. Anyone who puts Xorg on a linux server (unless maybe it is their own personal SOHO server - but on an internet facing mail/we server? please...) is insane - imnsho... Are you deliberately being obtuse, or did you miss the the pun? :) If you are running X11 sessions, they run as client/server pairs. (Although, if you are supporting thin client workstations, the X11 server sessions run on the thin client workstations and the X11 client sessions run on the machines usually considered to be the network servers.) Since most Linux-based workstations include both the client and server in one box, you would assume that most desktop Linux-based machines are at least running the X11 server. Which would be to say that it would be really, really hard to have a non-server user list for debian. Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. I was simply looking for a lower bandwidth list that had a more focused traffic. If you have questions, use an appropriate subject line and ask them here to start with and use your calibrated eyeballs to fish the responses out of the list. If there are better lists or other resources, someone here will usually direct you there. If you are interested in learning from the general experiences of others who use debian systems to host various services, again, you can just ignore posts with uninteresting subject lines. I must say, though, I've picked up some good tips for running various services from the middle of flame wars, so I can understand the temptation to read every post. You just have to be willing to miss some of those when you don't have time to read every post. (Which is most of the time for me these days.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. i just top posted. sorry. gmail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cam-_jtn6vt5agpkx7pombixn8a854zy1d_lqkeo1nkyno9j...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 2014-05-09, Mark Copper mcop...@straitcity.com wrote: I've run Debian servers for a number of years. When faced with a problem, Google almost always gets me where I need to go. So you're not using a google in which the information not pertinent to the needs of Mark Cooper is filtered away, and filter it away yourself somehow, perhaps by means of your intelligence? -- The ultimate tendency of the technical discussion is a technicality (or, to put it like the French, the buggering of a dipterous insect). - Mai Pewter Nips and Bytes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnlmptos.2sh.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 03:42:20PM +, Curt wrote: So you're not using a google in which the information not pertinent to the needs of Mark Cooper is filtered away, and filter it away yourself somehow, perhaps by means of your intelligence? Come on, the guy had a question and he received many answers (summarised in: no, there isn't, but there are various means of weeding out what you aren't interested into). There's no need to mock him! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140509155400.ga19...@x60s.casa
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 2014-05-09, Francesco Ariis fa...@ariis.it wrote: On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 03:42:20PM +, Curt wrote: So you're not using a google in which the information not pertinent to the needs of Mark Cooper is filtered away, and filter it away yourself somehow, perhaps by means of your intelligence? Come on, the guy had a question and he received many answers (summarised in: no, there isn't, but there are various means of weeding out what you aren't interested into). There's no need to mock him! Just kidding. I'll issue a full retraction later. -- The ultimate tendency of the technical discussion is a technicality (or, to put it like the French, the buggering of a dipterous insect). - Mai Pewter Nips and Bytes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnlmpv7t.2sh.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/5/2014 2:56 PM, Robert Crawford webgu...@gmail.com wrote: You might want look at the complete list at list.debian.org sigh I did... there are, what... 100+ different lists there? https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html There is a debian-desktop list, but no debian-server list, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask if I was missing something here, so I did.\ Not sure why some of you seem offended at the idea... There seem to be a lot of troll-ish posts the past week or so, and your insistence that there should be a debian-server to parallel debian-user is, well, sort of, the kind of post a troll might write. Not to say that you are not sincere in your wish to have a list that focuses on your problem, but it's easy to guess that such a question might not be sincere. All any of the rest of us know about what you are looking for is that you are administrating a pair of debian servers of some sort running under vmware's ESXi hypervisor, you don't have the patience (sorry to be blunt) to deal with a moderate-to-high traffic list, and you aren't willing to tell us what kind of questions you would ask, assuming there were a server list. So, giving you the benefit of a doubt (and repeating a question that someone else already asked), what kind of servers are you working with? e-mail? general web? time-stamp? NAS? database? identity? general application? application test? number crunching? ... What kinds of questions do you need to ask about your servers? bugs? efficiency, making APIs available? ... -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart.
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 05/08/2014 08:31 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/5/2014 2:56 PM, Robert Crawford webgu...@gmail.com mailto:webgu...@gmail.com wrote: You might want look at the complete list at list.debian.org http://list.debian.org sigh I did... there are, what... 100+ different lists there? https://lists.debian.org/__completeindex.html https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html There is a debian-desktop list, but no debian-server list, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask if I was missing something here, so I did.\ Not sure why some of you seem offended at the idea... There seem to be a lot of troll-ish posts the past week or so, and your insistence that there should be a debian-server to parallel debian-user is, well, sort of, the kind of post a troll might write. What kinds of questions do you need to ask about your servers? bugs? efficiency, making APIs available? ... Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. To the OP, this ain't Windows. I do agree that OT needs to be posted to the OT list, which seems to have very little traffic BTW. Then there would be less cruft to filter through on this list. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. https://linuxcounter.net/cert/44256.png X-oldie-warning: Toothless but still vicious -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/536bc8c9.3060...@gmail.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 5/8/2014 2:11 PM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Not on *mine* they don't. Anyone who puts Xorg on a linux server (unless maybe it is their own personal SOHO server - but on an internet facing mail/we server? please...) is insane - imnsho... Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. I was simply looking for a lower bandwidth list that had a more focused traffic. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/536be5a1.9080...@libertytrek.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 09/05/14 06:14, Tanstaafl wrote: On 5/8/2014 2:11 PM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: Especially when viewed in the light that a Linux desktop, and the Xorg system sits on top of a Linux server. Not on *mine* they don't. Anyone who puts Xorg on a linux server (unless maybe it is their own personal SOHO server - but on an internet facing mail/we server? please...) is insane - imnsho... A significant percentage of the population fits that category - and not just M$ Server administrators, some of the (self-described) Linux guru's on this list do similarly, um, eccentric, things - like install a desktop on a *VPS*. Ergo, server questions are germane when posted here. Yes. Unless they are vague and useless, e.g. how do you run a server? how much does a server weigh? where can I meet a nice server? etc. I was simply looking for a lower bandwidth list that had a more focused traffic. Server is no less vague than Desktop, or typical SOHO (apologies to the obtuse). There are a number of excellent online resources for various server needs - *if you define precisely what and how you are serving*? Otherwise you may find debian administration broadly includes more server than desktop - and there are several good forums for such. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/536c3568.10...@gmail.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 5/5/2014 2:56 PM, Robert Crawford webgu...@gmail.com wrote: You might want look at the complete list at list.debian.org sigh I did... there are, what... 100+ different lists there? https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html There is a debian-desktop list, but no debian-server list, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask if I was missing something here, so I did.\ Not sure why some of you seem offended at the idea... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/536a68b5.7080...@libertytrek.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Wed, 07 May 2014 13:09:09 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/5/2014 2:56 PM, Robert Crawford webgu...@gmail.com wrote: You might want look at the complete list at list.debian.org sigh I did... there are, what... 100+ different lists there? https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html There is a debian-desktop list, but no debian-server list, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask if I was missing something here, so I did.\ Not sure why some of you seem offended at the idea... Not offended, I think, just a bit bemused. Debian servers Just Work, they don't have problems... -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140507184513.7912c...@jretrading.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 2014-05-05, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote: The ideal list contains only traffic relating to problems you have, problems you are likely to have in the future, and useful things that you can try that will solve problems you didn't know you have. That's no list, that's my mother. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnlmig78.3h4.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
To the original question, for server-only stuff, there is the debian-isp list; but in practice, this is where everyone is, and where all the questions get answered. Miles Fidelman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53695805.9010...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 06:59:55AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: Hi all, I was perusing the available choices for the debian email lists and there are so many... What I'm looking for is the best choice for server only related stuff. I don't use debian for my desktop (yet), but have two servers that I now manage, and the overwhelming traffic on this list seems to be for desktop related stuff. Would appreciate any suggestions. This list is for all users of Debian systems, and you'll find both high level sysadmins and absolute beginners here. Ask away. -dsr- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140505125642.gx26...@randomstring.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On 5/5/2014 8:56 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote: On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 06:59:55AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: I was perusing the available choices for the debian email lists and there are so many... What I'm looking for is the best choice for server only related stuff. I don't use debian for my desktop (yet), but have two servers that I now manage, and the overwhelming traffic on this list seems to be for desktop related stuff. Would appreciate any suggestions. This list is for all users of Debian systems, and you'll find both high level sysadmins and absolute beginners here. Ask away. Sorry, I should have been more clear. This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. I'm looking for a lower volume/traffic list that focuses only on server related issues... Thanks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5367d2b1.9010...@libertytrek.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
You might want look at the complete list at list.debian.org Robert On May 5, 2014 1:05 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/5/2014 8:56 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote: On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 06:59:55AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: I was perusing the available choices for the debian email lists and there are so many... What I'm looking for is the best choice for server only related stuff. I don't use debian for my desktop (yet), but have two servers that I now manage, and the overwhelming traffic on this list seems to be for desktop related stuff. Would appreciate any suggestions. This list is for all users of Debian systems, and you'll find both high level sysadmins and absolute beginners here. Ask away. Sorry, I should have been more clear. This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. I'm looking for a lower volume/traffic list that focuses only on server related issues... Thanks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5367d2b1.9010...@libertytrek.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Lu, 05 mai 14, 14:04:33, Tanstaafl wrote: Sorry, I should have been more clear. This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. I'm looking for a lower volume/traffic list that focuses only on server related issues... But you still haven't specified what you would need such a list for... Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 10:23:56PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Lu, 05 mai 14, 14:04:33, Tanstaafl wrote: Sorry, I should have been more clear. This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. I'm looking for a lower volume/traffic list that focuses only on server related issues... But you still haven't specified what you would need such a list for... The ideal list contains only traffic relating to problems you have, problems you are likely to have in the future, and useful things that you can try that will solve problems you didn't know you have. Unfortunately, that list doesn't exist. The chief lesson of Usenet is that if you want good content in a discussion, you have to provide some of it yourself. Since servers are simultaneously a huge array of topics and still perfectly on-topic here, I don't think Tanstaafl will find what he's looking for elsewhere. The UNIX way -- indeed, the Debian way -- is that any user might suddenly turn into a programmer one day, and any desktop might be used to run a service, so that needs to be accomodated. The fact that today the list is filled with desktop environment discussions does not prevent it from being filled with discussions of nginx, memcached, postgresql and high-performance interconnects tomorrow. -dsr- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140505193433.gb26...@randomstring.org
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Mon, 05 May 2014 14:04:33 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 5/5/2014 8:56 AM, Dan Ritter d...@randomstring.org wrote: On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 06:59:55AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: I was perusing the available choices for the debian email lists and there are so many... What I'm looking for is the best choice for server only related stuff. I don't use debian for my desktop (yet), but have two servers that I now manage, and the overwhelming traffic on this list seems to be for desktop related stuff. Would appreciate any suggestions. This list is for all users of Debian systems, and you'll find both high level sysadmins and absolute beginners here. Ask away. Sorry, I should have been more clear. This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. I'm looking for a lower volume/traffic list that focuses only on server related issues... You might want to look at sites/lists specific to the server daemons and other specialised software that you run, then. A Debian server is much like any other Linux server, and will not in general have its own specialised problems. Issues of security, backup, etc. are going to be much the same whatever the distribution. Where Debian tends to be different from other distributions is in the package management system and the overall software upgrade policy of Debian Stable. This isn't something specific to servers, and where the upgrade policy causes difficulties, it is normally to users of Stable on desktops, not on servers. I think you will be hard put to find a useful forum where people discuss nothing but issues peculiar to Debian servers, as opposed to any other kind. You don't mention your background, but if you are coming to Debian from Windows, Linux doesn't have the hard demarcation between desktop and server OS which Windows has always had. There is no separate Linux server OS, just software packages which are more likely to be found on servers than on desktops, and the fact that many/most servers don't run GUIs. This is indeed one minor Debian difference, as the commercial distributions which are looking to take market share from Microsoft, mainly Red Hat and Suse, do generally run GUIs on their servers, because that's what Windows people are used to. Their users can have the added desktop fun of video drivers and X problems, which most Debian server users choose to avoid. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140505211429.68b21...@jretrading.com
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 02:04:33PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: This list is waay too high volume for my needs. I don't need to see the 98+% of the traffic all related to desktop issues. I don't run any DE at all, and don't intend to. Not a solution but a workaround: ever thought of using procmail (or a Bayesian filter) to sever the interesting/not-interesting (for you, of course) in this ML? I know, a bit of a hack, but I don't think there is a specific Debian mailing list related to server issues. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140505203735.ga21...@x60s.casa
Re: Best list for server only traffic?
Francesco Ariis writes: Not a solution but a workaround: ever thought of using procmail (or a Bayesian filter) to sever the interesting/not-interesting (for you, of course) in this ML? Or a decent MUA with the ability to filter/kill/hide/score down threads, posters, and/or subjects. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/877g5zyl12@thumper.dhh.gt.org
