Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 02:18:34AM -0800, Day Brown wrote: Antonio Rodriguez wrote: We may be facing a future where evidence of thinking thoughts that have been patented by others will be a crime. Can you imaging what the world would be if Pythagoras (or some group) had patented his theorem? If these forces that want to convert the thought world into a bazaar succeed, we may be facing a world darker than the worst nightmare. We may. But I aint so sure it is upta them. One of my rants here advocates that the debian users ally themselves with coop ISPs and setup a VPN (virtual private network). If need be, we could even go online with FREEDOS. If we dont use windoz and other proprietary software, we disempower them. It is illegal to use a CB radio without registering it. people ignored the law. We still can. How about we just use unregulated bands? Eg. big lasers scattering off atmospheric haze, clouds etc? -- Pigeon Be kind to pigeons Get my GPG key here: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x21C61F7F pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
Antonio Rodriguez wrote: We may be facing a future where evidence of thinking thoughts that have been patented by others will be a crime. Can you imaging what the world would be if Pythagoras (or some group) had patented his theorem? If these forces that want to convert the thought world into a bazaar succeed, we may be facing a world darker than the worst nightmare. We may. But I aint so sure it is upta them. One of my rants here advocates that the debian users ally themselves with coop ISPs and setup a VPN (virtual private network). If need be, we could even go online with FREEDOS. If we dont use windoz and other proprietary software, we disempower them. It is illegal to use a CB radio without registering it. people ignored the law. We still can. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Wrong question. Ask yourself should this job be done at all? The answer is usually no. That was rather enlightening. Thanks for the comment. Never looked at it from that angle before. :-) My pragmatic side says that there's no good way to stop someone from doing the unnecessary job, however... so I fall back to the original poster's comment... if realistically the job is always going to be there, those that have an issue with how it's being done should search for those who will do it the way they want or do it themselves. Eh? Nate Duehr, Stephen Pinker 'The Blank Slate' demonstrates the genetic impact on behavior and development which suggests that as much as we might wish the politicians and social theorists success at improving the behavior of the adults who grew up under the principles of their social welfare system, the results have been dissapointing. They might just as well have pissed in the wind or poured the money down a rat hole. FACT: the 'Noble Savage' is a myth. when he reads the forensic reports from the graveyards of the yeoman farmers in Europe, and compares them with the examination from indigeneous hunting tribes, he finds that the latter shows *20 times* the number of male skeletons who died as a result of violent assult. Data that predates the influence of the colonial powers. The field studies of primates show us that the vast majority of the violence is at the hands of the 'alpha males'. DNA shows that this is an *inherited* trait handed down in the male line. Head Start and similar progressive development programs have no significant effect after the boy hits puberty and his testosterone kicks in. Programs may be effective for the girls however. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 02:29:02AM -0800, Day Brown wrote: FACT: the 'Noble Savage' is a myth. when he reads the forensic reports from the graveyards of the yeoman farmers in Europe, and compares them with the examination from indigeneous hunting tribes, he finds that the latter shows *20 times* the number of male skeletons who died as a result of violent assult. Data that predates the influence of the colonial powers. Of course, of course, or course: The key word is `finds'. The reason is, we don't as often *eat* the people we've killed, and, we actually ceremonially bury even our enemies, and we tend to kill people before burying them! -- Jan Minar Please don't CC me, I'm subscribed. x 9 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
Excellent! Thanks for the post. John -Original Message- From: Colin Watson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 4:45 PM To: Debian Users List Cc: Antonio Rodriguez Subject: Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 04:41:33PM -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: We may be facing a future where evidence of thinking thoughts that have been patented by others will be a crime. Can you imaging what the world would be if Pythagoras (or some group) had patented his theorem? If these forces that want to convert the thought world into a bazaar succeed, we may be facing a world darker than the worst nightmare. I highly recommend reading Melancholy Elephants: http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:46:13 -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: Thank you Collin. Beautiful reading. Scary. To think that so many of the statements made in science fiction have come through, to know how dark life can be made to be on the surface of this ball, or on the surface of the other near hovering balls. Already some are talking about colonizing Mars. The resources to be spent in making a basically dead ball habitable are much larger than the resources needed to fix the problems of this already habitable ball. They know it. They know how to weigh their purses. Thus, they are not interested in doing it for the good of humanity, but for the purpose of acquiring another post to control. Buzzards well know that from the heights is easier to attack and capture. Humans are built to satisfy innate curiosity, which gives rise to the desire to find out how things work and build new things, especially if it seems difficult, or, even better, impossible. Of course, the miserable state of many of our fellow earthlings is deplorable, no one can argue against that, but it is important to follow more than one thread. What if Sir Isaac Newton had devoted his life to feeding the poor, and there was no Principia Mathematica, for instance? Oh, and NASA operates within a democracy, and is funded by, a democratic government. In a democracy, it's not they. It's we. And I have difficulty picturing the good voting citizens of the USA as buzzards. Not to mention the fact that the US is following more than one thread by being by far the largest donor of aid to poorer nations, and, together with the UK, is in the forefront of the battle to gain others the right to live in peace and freedom. I have recently found it interesting that those who decry human rights abuses are also frequently those who are critical of US/UK efforts to remove the perpetrators of those dreadful abuses. On the other hand, there are not a lot of Iraqis praying for the return of Saddam, nor are there many Afghanis eagerly awaiting the resurgence of the Taliban; but there are large numbers in both nations grateful for the efforts of their liberators. -- paul It is important to realize that any lock can be picked with a big enough hammer. -- Sun System Network Admin manual -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 06:29:49AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:46:13 -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: Thank you Collin. Beautiful reading. Scary. To think that so many of the statements made in science fiction have come through, to know how dark life can be made to be on the surface of this ball, or on the surface of the other near hovering balls. Already some are talking about colonizing Mars. The resources to be spent in making a basically dead ball habitable are much larger than the resources needed to fix the problems of this already habitable ball. They know it. They know how to weigh their purses. Thus, they are not interested in doing it for the good of humanity, but for the purpose of acquiring another post to control. Buzzards well know that from the heights is easier to attack and capture. Humans are built to satisfy innate curiosity, which gives rise to the desire to find out how things work and build new things, especially if it seems difficult, or, even better, impossible. Of course, the miserable state of many of our fellow earthlings is deplorable, no one can argue against that, but it is important to follow more than one thread. What if Sir Isaac Newton had devoted his life to feeding the poor, and there was no Principia Mathematica, for instance? You never know. However, let me ask you a question: What if the ancients had devoted their efforts to make sure that no human could use any of their thoughts without paying a fee? See for example the following, which I think many will find avenue opening: http://www.varchive.org/lec/aaas/challenge.htm If teachers and students had to pay a fee for every single written book, not many books could be opened. Libraries as we know would not exist either. Oh, and NASA operates within a democracy, and is funded by, a democratic government. In a democracy, it's not they. It's we. And I have difficulty picturing the good voting citizens of the USA as buzzards. Well, there is also what is called the power of money. Have you heard about the dispute of the drug trading through the Canadian border? Could we say that the good voting citizens are served? Wait and see who wins. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/24/business/24mail.html Not to mention the fact that the US is following more than one thread by being by far the largest donor of aid to poorer nations, and, together with the UK, is in the forefront of the battle to gain others the right to live in peace and freedom. I have recently found it interesting that those who decry human rights abuses are also frequently those who are critical of US/UK efforts to remove the perpetrators of those dreadful abuses. On the other hand, there are not a lot of Iraqis praying for the return of Saddam, nor are there many Afghanis eagerly awaiting the resurgence of the Taliban; but there are large numbers in both nations grateful for the efforts of their liberators. There is no much that I can tell you about this. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
Nano Nano writes: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Wrong question. Ask yourself should this job be done at all? The answer is usually no. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:00:26 -0800 Nano Nano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Hmmnn. Well, in the UK, and especially in Wales, the answer is usually yes. - Richard. -- Richard Kimber http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 06:00:30PM +, Richard Kimber wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:00:26 -0800 Nano Nano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Hmmnn. Well, in the UK, and especially in Wales, the answer is usually yes. But see, this is what everybody thinks, until they get a chance, then they always f*ck it up too. (Roger Waters, Too Much Rope). Leastways this is what *I* always think, then I get a chance, then I f*ck it up too! grin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 07:56:44AM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Nano Nano writes: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Wrong question. Ask yourself should this job be done at all? The answer is usually no. Ah, yes, but the answer is also, sometimes yes, grasshopper. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
Nano Nano writes: Ah, yes, but the answer is also, sometimes yes, grasshopper. Grasshopper? ROFL. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 03:30:14PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Nano Nano writes: Ah, yes, but the answer is also, sometimes yes, grasshopper. Grasshopper? ROFL. I thought everybody realized when you add that it's supposed to be a joke :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
John Hasler wrote: Nano Nano writes: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Wrong question. Ask yourself should this job be done at all? The answer is usually no. That was rather enlightening. Thanks for the comment. Never looked at it from that angle before. :-) My pragmatic side says that there's no good way to stop someone from doing the unnecessary job, however... so I fall back to the original poster's comment... if realistically the job is always going to be there, those that have an issue with how it's being done should search for those who will do it the way they want or do it themselves. Eh? Nate Duehr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 03:17:24PM -0700, Nate Duehr wrote: John Hasler wrote: Nano Nano writes: From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. Wrong question. Ask yourself should this job be done at all? The answer is usually no. That was rather enlightening. Thanks for the comment. Never looked at it from that angle before. :-) My pragmatic side says that there's no good way to stop someone from doing the unnecessary job, however... so I fall back to the original poster's comment... if realistically the job is always going to be there, those that have an issue with how it's being done should search for those who will do it the way they want or do it themselves. Eh? I find instructive in these sorts of debates the intellectual atmosphere of Europe, from 1840 until the USSR in 1917. There have been many utopian visions. There have been lots of communes. It all ends up like Dennis in Monthy Python and the Holy Grail. Be realistic. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 04:41:33PM -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: We may be facing a future where evidence of thinking thoughts that have been patented by others will be a crime. Can you imaging what the world would be if Pythagoras (or some group) had patented his theorem? If these forces that want to convert the thought world into a bazaar succeed, we may be facing a world darker than the worst nightmare. I highly recommend reading Melancholy Elephants: http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 11:44:35PM +, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 04:41:33PM -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: We may be facing a future where evidence of thinking thoughts that have been patented by others will be a crime. Can you imaging what the world would be if Pythagoras (or some group) had patented his theorem? If these forces that want to convert the thought world into a bazaar succeed, we may be facing a world darker than the worst nightmare. I highly recommend reading Melancholy Elephants: http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Collin. Beautiful reading. Scary. To think that so many of the statements made in science fiction have come through, to know how dark life can be made to be on the surface of this ball, or on the surface of the other near hovering balls. Already some are talking about colonizing Mars. The resources to be spent in making a basically dead ball habitable are much larger than the resources needed to fix the problems of this already habitable ball. They know it. They know how to weigh their purses. Thus, they are not interested in doing it for the good of humanity, but for the purpose of acquiring another post to control. Buzzards well know that from the heights is easier to attack and capture. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 12:46:13AM -0500, Antonio Rodriguez wrote: Thank you Collin. Beautiful reading. Scary. To think that so many of the statements made in science fiction have come through, to know how dark life can be made to be on the surface of this ball, or on the surface of the other near hovering balls. Already some are talking about colonizing Mars. The resources to be spent in making a basically dead ball habitable are much larger than the resources needed to fix the problems of this already habitable ball. They know it. They know how to weigh their purses. Thus, they are not interested in doing it for the good of humanity, but for the purpose of acquiring another post to control. Buzzards well know that from the heights is easier to attack and capture. Let us not get too carried away with ourselves. A trifle maudlin, don't you think? From my own experiences at leadership of various things, all I can say is I have total sympathy for politicians. Put aside the concept of sides (as in my side is winning) and ask yourself if you truly could do a better job. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
