Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
Incoming from Damon L. Chesser: > > There could be no World Peace while RPM exists freely and is so widely > supported by fanatical users with no regard for ease of use or superior > methods. We simply can not compromise! Ah, geez. A day doesn't go by lately that someone isn't declaring war on somebody.:-P I have Applix on my machine. It installed off their CD in rpm format. It works fine in Woody. It worked fine on SuSE when I was running that. In other words, we can all just get along. Besides, we've already got enough top-posters to be consigned to Hell before we bite off more problems. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
Rick wrote: > Yes,I think so.but our procedure depend rpm format, I think you are confusing a packaging format with your program. You program undoubtedly depends upon shared libraries and other things. But it is packaged into a distribution format. It can be packaged into many different formats. > and I found that it can't find files it need in deb DB,I had been > tried to install it on debian, > #rpm -ivh myproduct-xxx-xx.rpm > the program will prompt: myproduct need perl >5.6, and the bash must > be installed As other people have written doing this is not a good thing. Put yourself in the other position. I have a .deb file from Debian. I want to install it on a RH system. Should I insist that you must use dpkg to install it there? That would be just as silly as insisting the reverse. A native packaging is always best. A real example might help. On Debian only one MTA (mail transport agents) can be installed at the same time. Installing a different one pushes out the previous one. This makes it easy to switch between MTAs. Just install a different one. Have sendmail installed? Install postfix. Sendmail is removed as Postfix is added leaving Postfix as the active MTA. Want to go back? Install the previous MTA of choice. Everything works. It is very nice. On later RH they use the alternatives for /usr/sbin/mta making it a symlink to the currently active MTA such as one of sendmail or postfix. It is possible to have multiple MTAs installed but only one of them active[1]. This is a completely different method of managing the current MTA. And after installation you must adjust the alternatives and other things or your desired selected MTA is not configured. On RH 7.3 (don't know about later versions) postfix has a lower priority than sendmail for example. Installing a package from a different system will not be written to handle the other system's management methods. This is completely outside the scope of just a package installation tool like dpkg or rpm or even a dependency aware tool like apt or yum but encompasses the larger problem of system policy. There are issues of naming conventions and other such things to be taken into consideration. I feel that the system policy which describes how packages interoperate is where Debian is clearly ahead of the competition. Bob [1] Why have multiple MTAs installed? Only one can really be active. It just causes problems. But this is legacy from RH usage. On RH at bare metal install time is the only time you can guarantee the dependencies are all resolvable. So RH users have been encouraged to install everything from the CD at installation time regardless of the sensibility of that because later they won't be able to do so. This required RH to facilitate this using the Debian alternatives as a way to have multiple MTAs installed at the same time but only one operating. I see that as a hack on a hack. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
s. keeling wrote: Incoming from Silvan: On Friday 14 May 2004 11:19 pm, Paul E Condon wrote: packages because the Debian community believes its deb packaging system is superior to the rpm system.* Debian also has a social commitment to free * Actually, it _is_ superior, but I'm trying to be nice. Vastly so. No need to be nice about it. The wRetched Package Manager just needs to go away. :) Could you do World Peace first? It might be easier. There could be no World Peace while RPM exists freely and is so widely supported by fanatical users with no regard for ease of use or superior methods. We simply can not compromise! -- Damon L. Chesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
Incoming from Silvan: > On Friday 14 May 2004 11:19 pm, Paul E Condon wrote: > > > packages because the Debian community believes its deb packaging system is > > superior to the rpm system.* Debian also has a social commitment to free > > > * Actually, it _is_ superior, but I'm trying to be nice. > > Vastly so. No need to be nice about it. The wRetched Package Manager just > needs to go away. :) Could you do World Peace first? It might be easier. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Saturday 15 May 2004 01:16 am, Kevin Mark wrote: > its stability it will get moved to testing. And then if all goes well, > it moves into stable. its stability and interaction with other packages > are the criteria that the debian packager of an authors work uses to > judge when it is moved to the next phase of readyness for 'stable'. Well, that's all rather misleading, I think. Nothing ever makes it "into stable." When stable is stable, stable stays stable. When was the last time a package made it from Sid into Woody? The descriptions of the Debian Way make it sound like that happens, but it doesn't. Packages "make it into stable" all at once, and after they're there, they're frozen in time forever. Security and bug fixes, yes, but the version of libflummy is chiseled in stone pretty much for eternity thereafter. The way this is usually described just doesn't reflect the reality of it. -- Michael McIntyre Silvan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Friday 14 May 2004 11:19 pm, Paul E Condon wrote: > packages because the Debian community believes its deb packaging system is > superior to the rpm system.* Debian also has a social commitment to free > * Actually, it _is_ superior, but I'm trying to be nice. Vastly so. No need to be nice about it. The wRetched Package Manager just needs to go away. :) -- Michael McIntyre Silvan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 01:16:09AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:50:00PM -0600, s. keeling wrote: > > I imagine there are cases in which this approach won't work, but we > > see the same thing from people everyday who are limiting themselves > > to only using debian tools. Just look at that stable vs. testing > > vs. unstable thread a month ago. > > > > And that's possibly the worst news the original poster wants to > > hear; he's got to make his stuff work on stable, testing, and > > unstable?!? Gah! > > Hi S, > one doesnt make a product 'work' for stable, testing or unstable. > every package start out it life as an unstable package. And if it > proves its stability it will get moved to testing. And then if all > goes well, it moves into stable. its stability and interaction with > other packages are the criteria that the debian packager of an authors > work uses to judge when it is moved to the next phase of readyness for > 'stable'. That applies to Debian packages, but not to third-party products being ported to Debian. The usual approach for those is to build for stable and deal with other problems if and when they arise. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:40:51PM +0800, Rick wrote: Hello People: Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. At the start,I wanted to try install these rpm packages(from redhat) On debian,but I found that thers is a lot work to do,some rpm packages even can't be installed on it.(perhaps these rpms packages from redhat can't be used on debian at all).I think 2 ways to settle this problem,But I am not sure these ways is doable,and I wish to get some advices about it.these problem are: 1. Use a certain tool to translate these packages(glibc*.rpm..) from redhat to rpm packages that can be used on debian.Is there such tools exist on debian? 2. On Debian,after I install rpm,rpm DB and deb DB exist,Can I make some mapping bettwen betwwen rpm DB and deb DB? when I run rpm command,the OS will invoke debian DB.for example: # rpm -qv gcc package gcc is not installed #dpkg -l |grep gcc ii gcc-3.03.0.4-7The GNU C compiler. # this means gcc*rpm isn't installed but gcc*deb is installed on debian. after I make this mapping,I can use rpm to access deb DB. # rpm -qv gcc gcc-3.0 # if this way is feasible,How to do it? I am a new debian user,not too familiar with this OS, If above ways are impossible,is thers other ways to attain my purpose? As someone else mentioned, look at the "alien" Debian package for conversion from .rpm .deb. But that is hardly adequate for reliable, professional software. You should consider a more realistic option: 3. Genuinely *port* your software to the Debian platform. While glibc 2.3.2 and perl 5.8 are not available in the current Debian stable release (Woody), it's rather unlikely that your software *needs* those components in those versions - i.e. whether it is more or less a matter of recompiling. But then you know that. Or even if not this, somehow you're going to need to provide security updates for these libraries your software needs. These packages aren't going to reliably install with alien or rpm unmodified. So if you're going to officially support the port of your software to Debian (which seems to be part of the definition of "port"), you are going to need to distribute these packages to your users yourselves, and distribute security updates of these non-official packages yourselves. Since you will be doing this anyhow, why not simply maintain these packages as .deb packages in the versions your users will need, in the form of backports [1] for Debian stable (Woody)? [1] http://www.backports.org dircha -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:50:00PM -0600, s. keeling wrote: > Incoming from Paul E Condon: > > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:40:51PM +0800, Rick wrote: > > > > > > Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this > > > system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: > > > glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. > > > > Some might try to use it. Some might get it to work. Some might even like it. But > > then those few will ask you to package it as a deb before they buy. The rest will > > And others will use rpm for rpms and Debian tools for .debs, including > alien to convert one to the other, or simply installing whatever we've > got to work with. > > I imagine there are cases in which this approach won't work, but we > see the same thing from people everyday who are limiting themselves > to only using debian tools. Just look at that stable vs. testing > vs. unstable thread a month ago. > > And that's possibly the worst news the original poster wants to hear; > he's got to make his stuff work on stable, testing, and unstable?!? Gah! > > > -- > Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. > (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling > - - Hi S, one doesnt make a product 'work' for stable, testing or unstable. every package start out it life as an unstable package. And if it proves its stability it will get moved to testing. And then if all goes well, it moves into stable. its stability and interaction with other packages are the criteria that the debian packager of an authors work uses to judge when it is moved to the next phase of readyness for 'stable'. -Kev signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
Incoming from Paul E Condon: > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:40:51PM +0800, Rick wrote: > > > > Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this > > system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: > > glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. > > Some might try to use it. Some might get it to work. Some might even like it. But > then those few will ask you to package it as a deb before they buy. The rest will And others will use rpm for rpms and Debian tools for .debs, including alien to convert one to the other, or simply installing whatever we've got to work with. I imagine there are cases in which this approach won't work, but we see the same thing from people everyday who are limiting themselves to only using debian tools. Just look at that stable vs. testing vs. unstable thread a month ago. And that's possibly the worst news the original poster wants to hear; he's got to make his stuff work on stable, testing, and unstable?!? Gah! -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:40:51PM +0800, Rick wrote: > Hello People: > Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this > system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: > glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. > At the start,I wanted to try install these rpm packages(from redhat) On > debian,but I found that thers is a lot work to do,some rpm packages even can't > be installed on it.(perhaps these rpms packages from redhat can't be used on > debian at all).I think 2 ways to settle this problem,But I am not sure these > ways is doable,and I wish to get some advices about it.these problem are: > > 1. Use a certain tool to translate these packages(glibc*.rpm..) from redhat > to rpm packages that can be used on debian.Is there such tools exist on > debian? > 2. On Debian,after I install rpm,rpm DB and deb DB exist,Can I make some > mapping bettwen betwwen rpm DB and deb DB? when I run rpm command,the OS will > invoke debian DB.for example: > # rpm -qv gcc > package gcc is not installed > #dpkg -l |grep gcc > ii gcc-3.03.0.4-7The GNU C compiler. > # > this means gcc*rpm isn't installed but gcc*deb is installed on debian. after I > make this mapping,I can use rpm to access deb DB. > # rpm -qv gcc > gcc-3.0 > # > if this way is feasible,How to do it? > > I am a new debian user,not too familiar with this OS, If above ways are > impossible,is thers other ways to attain my purpose? > Rick, Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution in its own right. It does not use rpm packages because the Debian community believes its deb packaging system is superior to the rpm system.* Debian also has a social commitment to free software, which may have some effect on the viability of your project to port a product to Debian. But if you are committed to the port, and if you want to present your product in a way that it has its best chance to be accepted in this market, you should create a Debian package for it. Rpm packages do not play well with Debian. Most Debian users would simply reject a product that is not properly packaged for Debian. Some might try to use it. Some might get it to work. Some might even like it. But then those few will ask you to package it as a deb before they buy. The rest will ignore your stuff. You might as well be a Czech asking a Frenchman to learn Czech just so he can use your software, which is written with all Czech prompts and documentation. Best of Luck -- Paul E Condon [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Actually, it _is_ superior, but I'm trying to be nice. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thus spake Rick: # #rpm -ivh myproduct-xxx-xx.rpm # the program will prompt: myproduct need perl >5.6, and the bash must be installed # In fact,the 2 debian packages has been installed,I think rpm command will read info from only rpm DB on debian. This is generally not recommended, but the easiest thing to do would be to simply add the --nodeps option on the command line: rpm -ivh myproduct-xxx-xx.rpm --nodeps If all dependencies are installed in Debian, you will find that the newly installed RPM package will run flawlessly. The RPM dependency check is only done at install time, not at runtime. The package will also be uninstalled properly without complaining about dependencies: rpm -e myproduct HTH, PRINCE -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFApSOnAl2SNUPt1I8RAgilAJ95ku4xjb1QBgQg29xyMAhVuUmNjQCfdhkS 6jV/7y+kHNT1zpEttmkWKlE= =lbVA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
>> Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this >> system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: >> glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. >> At the start,I wanted to try install these rpm packages(from redhat) > Once you have done that, the system is no longer really Debian, so I > don't see the point. Figure out what Debian packages it depends on > instead. Yes,I think so.but our procedure depend rpm format,and I found that it can't find files it need in deb DB,I had been tried to install it on debian, #rpm -ivh myproduct-xxx-xx.rpm the program will prompt: myproduct need perl >5.6, and the bash must be installed In fact,the 2 debian packages has been installed,I think rpm command will read info from only rpm DB on debian.(If make myproduct-xxx-xx.rpm to deb format,I think more codes need be fixed,this proccess is complex,but I hadn't tried this way yet,I should try it tomorrow.) >> On debian,but I found that thers is a lot work to do,some rpm packages >> even can't be installed on it.(perhaps these rpms packages from redhat >> can't be used on debian at all). > In general they shouldn't be. Thank you! Rick
Re: Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
Thank you for your help,I should check the alien manual in detail first.
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:40:51PM +0800, Rick wrote: > Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this > system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: > glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. > At the start,I wanted to try install these rpm packages(from redhat) Once you have done that, the system is no longer really Debian, so I don't see the point. Figure out what Debian packages it depends on instead. > On debian,but I found that thers is a lot work to do,some rpm packages > even can't be installed on it.(perhaps these rpms packages from redhat > can't be used on debian at all). In general they shouldn't be. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can rpm packages from other linux distribution be used on Debian?
On (12/05/04 17:40), Rick wrote: > Hello People: > Our product is base on redhat,I will porting it to Debian,but in this > system,many procedure depend redhat rpms,for example: > glibc-2.3.2-11.9.i386.rpm, perl-5.8.0-88.i386.rpm,etc.. > At the start,I wanted to try install these rpm packages(from redhat) On > debian,but I found that thers is a lot work to do,some rpm packages even can't > be installed on it.(perhaps these rpms packages from redhat can't be used on > debian at all).I think 2 ways to settle this problem,But I am not sure these > ways is doable,and I wish to get some advices about it.these problem are: > > 1. Use a certain tool to translate these packages(glibc*.rpm..) from redhat > to rpm packages that can be used on debian.Is there such tools exist on > debian? Check out alien, a package specifically to convert rpms and you may want to look at: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/distribute-deb/distribute-deb.html > 2. On Debian,after I install rpm,rpm DB and deb DB exist,Can I make some > mapping bettwen betwwen rpm DB and deb DB? when I run rpm command,the OS will > invoke debian DB.for example: > # rpm -qv gcc > package gcc is not installed > #dpkg -l |grep gcc > ii gcc-3.03.0.4-7The GNU C compiler. > # > this means gcc*rpm isn't installed but gcc*deb is installed on debian. after I > make this mapping,I can use rpm to access deb DB. > # rpm -qv gcc > gcc-3.0 > # > if this way is feasible,How to do it? > > I am a new debian user,not too familiar with this OS, If above ways are > impossible,is thers other ways to attain my purpose? > > Thanks! > > Rick -- http://www.clivemenzies.co.uk strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
