Re: Debian 11 & Debian 12
On 17 Jan 2024 03:21 +, from a...@strugglers.net (Andy Smith): >> Please find a way to restore the integrity of open-source software >> distribution. > > Firmware updates are required for almost every general purpose > computing device in existence and at this time those are non-free. > > You have no choice about using them whether you use Debian or not, > because your computer hardware will come pre-installed with several > bits of non-free firmware, such as the CPU microcode and the entire > Minix-based OS that runs inside every Intel and AMD CPU. By refusing > to download newer firmwares you will not actually make your computer > usage any more ideologically pure, you will only make it less > reliable and secure. Another example of non-free firmware on a typical system might be that running on and managing the internal workings of the storage device. Or the UEFI/BIOS. Or the display. Or the network card. Also, there seems to me to be some confusion on OP's part. What's changed in Debian 12 compared to earlier releases is that a new, separate component was added, named non-free-firmware; and non-free firmware was moved into it from elsewhere. Previously firmware was often packaged in non-free, so required either including the non-free component as a whole or managing firmware blobs packages manually. IMO, if anything, this change _helps_ things by creating a cleaner separation between non-free packages which are to some extent necessary for the secure use and proper functioning of the computer, and those which are not required except for their particular uses. Nothing forces you to include even non-free-firmware in your apt sources list, but as has already been pointed out, you probably _want_ to do that in order to bring in firmware updates. You aren't running any _less_ non-free software by not including it. If you absolutely want to run an operating system with no non-free components at all, the FSF has a list of distributions that they recommend. https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html Be prepared to need to make significant concessions in other areas if you use one of those, and keep in mind that unless you have _really_ gone out of your way in picking components, there will still be a _lot_ of non-free code running on your computer. -- Michael Kjörling https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
Re: Debian 11 & Debian 12
Am 16.01.2024 um 22:25:40 Uhr schrieb Jeff Jennings: > Recently, I decided to download Debian 12.4 and was alarmed to notice > that Debian 12 downloads are no longer through https connections. https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-cd/ https works fine here.
Re: Debian 11 & Debian 12
Hi Jeff, On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:25:40PM +, Jeff Jennings wrote: > Please find a way to restore the integrity of open-source software > distribution. Firmware updates are required for almost every general purpose computing device in existence and at this time those are non-free. You have no choice about using them whether you use Debian or not, because your computer hardware will come pre-installed with several bits of non-free firmware, such as the CPU microcode and the entire Minix-based OS that runs inside every Intel and AMD CPU. By refusing to download newer firmwares you will not actually make your computer usage any more ideologically pure, you will only make it less reliable and secure. Most Linux distributions provide firmware updates as a matter of course, without really telling the user the difference between these non-free software and the proper free software they also distribute. Debian is different in that it tells you. In Debian, the decision to enable non-free for firmware was a long and contentious one, but it was done in the open. It's important to understand what is going on before calling for its abolition. https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware If you somehow do have a device that doesn't require any non-free firmware whatsoever, it's also easy to disable these repositories. But this would be an unusual device in this day and age. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Debian 11 & Debian 12
On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:25:40PM +, Jeff Jennings wrote: > Recently, I decided to download Debian 12.4 and was alarmed to notice that > Debian 12 downloads are no longer through https connections. Do you mean, the initial download of the installer image? Do you mean, the repository that's used during the installation to install the selected tasks? Do you mean, package installations that occur AFTER the installation? If it's the second one, you get to choose your mirror during the installation. I don't know whether https options are available that early. If it's the last one, you can just use an https mirror in your sources.list file. > In addition, I installed 12.4 and discovered that the post installation > repository links are non-free only. I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you please PASTE your sources.list file here so we can see what you see? > Also, two of the largest corporate entities are evident within desktop > notifications, prior to any updates to the operating system. What desktop environment did you select? What (mis)features are you seeing that you object to? Have you considered using a different desktop environment, or NOT using a desktop environment at all? Whatever you liked about your Debian 10 setup, you can probably get close to it (or identical if you're not using a DE) in the newer release, once you know what your goal is. Debian is *extremely* customizable. Install what you want, how you want. If you don't like something, replace it with an alternative.
