Re: Debian desktop environment

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 11:08 AM Cindy Sue Causey 
wrote:

> On 5/28/22, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Brian wrote:
> >> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye
> :).
> >
> > Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> >> Bookworm?
> >> SID?
> >
> > In any case: Not Testing !
> >
> > Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
> > because of
> >   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268
>
>
> Yeehaw to that! About 3 mornings ago, I woke up to 71 emails
> containing the "marked for autoremoval" advisement. All appear to be
> tied to accessibility (A11Y). Have mercy, it's all the bigger chat
> topics: edbrowse, espeakup, fenrir, *orca*. I've NEVER seen that
> quantity before and especially not those packages, but that's likely
> just because of which lists I follow.
>

So *that* is what all those emails were about.

I had to use Bullseye as Testing for, over a month, due to the level of the
qemu package (as Buster's was lower than Mint).  I am *sure* glad I didn't
try that with Bookworm!  (Yes, I had a major issue with Mint 20 and won't
use Mint anymore).

>
> Cindy :)
> --
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
> * runs with birdseed *
>

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 5/28/22, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Brian wrote:
>> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
>
> Keith Bainbridge wrote:
>> Bookworm?
>> SID?
>
> In any case: Not Testing !
>
> Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
> because of
>   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268


Yeehaw to that! About 3 mornings ago, I woke up to 71 emails
containing the "marked for autoremoval" advisement. All appear to be
tied to accessibility (A11Y). Have mercy, it's all the bigger chat
topics: edbrowse, espeakup, fenrir, *orca*. I've NEVER seen that
quantity before and especially not those packages, but that's likely
just because of which lists I follow.

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Brian wrote:
> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).

Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> Bookworm?
> SID?

In any case: Not Testing !

Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
because of
  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Keith Bainbridge]

On 24/5/22 23:23, Brian wrote:

Hi,

After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.

Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
  



Bookworm?

SID?

--
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithrbaugro...@gmail.com

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Hellow Махно ,

Махно  writes:

> Hello. Just use i3. It is a tiling window manager designed for X11,
> inspired by wmii and written in C.[5] It supports tiling, stacking,
> and tabbing layouts, which it handles dynamically. Configuration is
> achieved via plain text file and extending i3 is possible using its
> Unix domain socket and JSON based IPC interface from many programming
> languages. More info here:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/i3

Wow thanks for reply and good guidance!

Unfortuantely, Chromebook does not offer X11. So i cannot try to
i3 with my Chromebook. However if i get other device, by chance, i will
try to i3, someday far later ^^^

And thanks again for kind reply ^^^

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Махно]

Hello. Just use i3. It is a tiling window manager designed for X11,
inspired by wmii and written in C.[5] It supports tiling, stacking,
and tabbing layouts, which it handles dynamically. Configuration is
achieved via plain text file and extending i3 is possible using its
Unix domain socket and JSON based IPC interface from many programming
languages. More info here:

https://wiki.debian.org/i3

2022-05-25, tr, 14:48 황병희  rašė:
>
> Hellow didier,
>
> didier gaumet  writes:
>
> > (... thanks ...)
> > In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled
> > Debian inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case
> > Debian runs in a Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your
> > screenshot seems to show a Chrome OS interface...
> >
> > (1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux
>
> Yes, you are right:
> 
>
> And i like Chromebook and Debian/Ubuntu ^^^
>
> Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee
>
> --
> ^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//
>

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Hellow didier,

didier gaumet  writes:

> (... thanks ...)
> In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled
> Debian inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case
> Debian runs in a Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your
> screenshot seems to show a Chrome OS interface...
>
> (1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux

Yes, you are right:


And i like Chromebook and Debian/Ubuntu ^^^

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[didier gaumet]

Le mercredi 25 mai 2022 à 08:50:05 UTC+2, 황병희 a écrit :
> Antonino Saetta  writes: 
> 
> > (... thanks ...)
> > I thought that Debian is GNOME by default... 
> > 
> > Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?
> Hellow, i am beginner with Debian. I install Debian 11 Bullseye on 
> Chromebook. But there is no Gnome desktop. I just launch each Linux app 
> such as Emacs, Gimp, etc., when i need it. 
> 
> You see my screenshot: 
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee 
> 
> -- 
> ^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Hello,

In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled  Debian 
inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case Debian runs in a 
Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your screenshot seems to show a Chrome 
OS interface...

(1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Antonino Saetta  writes:

> (... thanks ...)
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...
>
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

Hellow, i am beginner with Debian. I install Debian 11 Bullseye on
Chromebook. But there is no Gnome desktop. I just launch each Linux app
such as Emacs, Gimp, etc., when i need it.

You see my screenshot:


Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 24 May 2022 13:27:29 +0200
Antonino Saetta  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

To give you a choice of which desktop or desktops to install, or no GUI
at all. With Linux you can install and run multiple desktops, if you
want to.

> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It is, but you don't have to use/install it if you don't want to.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

XFCE, LXDE, LXQt are all considered "light" desktops. Running only a
window manager (I use Openbox. There are many others.) is even lighter.

B

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 02:23:46PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>   apt install task-xfce-desktop
>   apt unstall take-gnome-desktop
>   apt unstall xfce4
>   etc

Freudian typos.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Brian]

On Tue 24 May 2022 at 13:27:29 +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.

Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It needn't be GNOME, but it has been for quite some time.
 
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

Lightest? In terms of disk space used?

  apt install task-xfce-desktop
  apt unstall take-gnome-desktop
  apt unstall xfce4
  etc

Lool at the additional disk space to be used.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Peter Ehlert]

On 5/24/22 05:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:

So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

uncheck that box, select any other Desktop you want, or None.

by trial and error I believe it is actually Gnome, the new super 
dumbed-down version.


I much prefer Mate



I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

*sigh* It's complicated.

See, there's more than one Debian installer program, and there's more
than one IMAGE which uses the Debian installer as its core.

The "Debian desktop environment" setting is designed to choose whichever
desktop the DESIGNER OF YOUR INSTALLATION IMAGE decided should be the
default.

If you're using the official Debian netinst or DVD-1 installer image,
the default choice is GNOME.

If you're using a Debian "Live" image, the default choice is potentially
something other than GNOME.  It'll usually say in the image's filename.

If you're using something other than pure Debian, the default could be
anything at all.


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

I really liked tomas's answer to this.  The way you're asking this
question means you've already fallen into the trap of thinking that
it's normal and expected to install a full-blown Desktop Environment
and that you're supposed to choose one of them.

A lot of us (myself included) don't use ANY of those.  We just use a
traditional window manager, of which there are a few dozen.

If you UNSELECT all of the desktop options (including the stupid
"Debian desktop environment" choice that picks one for you)

I agree, the Stupid default is super annoying.

I believe that the "Debian desktop environment"is actually Gnome 
(Gnome3) and it really sucks.

===

BTW: The Debian Installer is the best I have ever found, with only Two 
exceptions... That default crap selection, and auto selecting all swap 
partitions on the entire system for Formatting.


end of rant



, you get
an installation which has only the Standard packages, and no graphical
environment yet.

At that point, if you know which window manager you want to use, you
can do this:

1) Check for missing firmware and video drivers.  You're already booting
to a text console, so you've bypassed the "I can't boot because
the Display Manager locks up because of missing firmware" trap.
Now you get to resolve that peacefully, without a DM trying to take
over the display at boot time.

2) sudo apt-get install xorg your-favorite-wm your-favorite-terminal 

3) startx

If startx works, then you can continue booting to a text console and using
startx to launch the GUI each time.  Or you can select a Display Manager
package and install that, if you want a GUI login.  It's up to you.

Or, of course, you're free to use a Desktop Environment if that's what
you prefer.  That's the thing about Debian: it lets you choose.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Peter Ehlert]

On 5/24/22 04:53, Jeremy Ardley wrote:


On 24/5/22 7:27 pm, Antonino Saetta wrote:


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?



I use Mate.  It's closest to the old gnome so no fancy crap


I am with you on that.


BTW: the mate-desktop-environment-extras is a Great enhancement
MATE Desktop Environment (extra components, metapackage)


Jeremy

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

*sigh* It's complicated.

See, there's more than one Debian installer program, and there's more
than one IMAGE which uses the Debian installer as its core.

The "Debian desktop environment" setting is designed to choose whichever
desktop the DESIGNER OF YOUR INSTALLATION IMAGE decided should be the
default.

If you're using the official Debian netinst or DVD-1 installer image,
the default choice is GNOME.

If you're using a Debian "Live" image, the default choice is potentially
something other than GNOME.  It'll usually say in the image's filename.

If you're using something other than pure Debian, the default could be
anything at all.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

I really liked tomas's answer to this.  The way you're asking this
question means you've already fallen into the trap of thinking that
it's normal and expected to install a full-blown Desktop Environment
and that you're supposed to choose one of them.

A lot of us (myself included) don't use ANY of those.  We just use a
traditional window manager, of which there are a few dozen.

If you UNSELECT all of the desktop options (including the stupid
"Debian desktop environment" choice that picks one for you), you get
an installation which has only the Standard packages, and no graphical
environment yet.

At that point, if you know which window manager you want to use, you
can do this:

1) Check for missing firmware and video drivers.  You're already booting
   to a text console, so you've bypassed the "I can't boot because
   the Display Manager locks up because of missing firmware" trap.
   Now you get to resolve that peacefully, without a DM trying to take
   over the display at boot time.

2) sudo apt-get install xorg your-favorite-wm your-favorite-terminal 

3) startx

If startx works, then you can continue booting to a text console and using
startx to launch the GUI each time.  Or you can select a Display Manager
package and install that, if you want a GUI login.  It's up to you.

Or, of course, you're free to use a Desktop Environment if that's what
you prefer.  That's the thing about Debian: it lets you choose.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 24/5/22 7:27 pm, Antonino Saetta wrote:


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?



I use Mate.  It's closest to the old gnome so no fancy crap

Jeremy



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian desktop environment

[tomas]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...
> 
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

The lightest desktop is no desktop :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[pjw]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 06:01 AM, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
>
> Hi, Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security...

Apropos:

Debian Moves To Non-Root X.Org Server By Default[1]


Links:

  1. 
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-org-drivers/x-org-drm/832700-debian-moves-to-non-root-x-org-server-by-default

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Václav Ovsík]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 09:45:47AM -0700, pjw wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 06:01 AM, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> > security...
> 
> Apropos:
> 
> Debian Moves To Non-Root X.Org Server By Default[1]

I'm afraid only if started by gdm (or startx by user)...

-- 
Zito

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[moxalt]

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:01:09 +0100, Mateusz Kozłowski  wrote:

> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME
> etc.)?

They're all reasonably secure. Of course, if you want to narrow your attack
surface, you shouldn't be running a desktop at all. Or even be using a computer
for that matter ;)

It's really just personal preference. I like Xfce. It's lightweight, fast,
doesn't eat RAM, isn't complicated, can look beautiful with a bit of theming,
and has sane settings. It's not very big on the disk either.

You can install it by installing xfce4 and xfce4-goodies.

If your computer can handle it and you want something a bit snazzier out of the
box, with all the bells and whistles, try KDE or something. I think it's
horribly bloated, but that's just me.

Another one I like is MATE, a fork of GNOME 2 before the GNOME project went
KDE-level insane.

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian
> users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?

My opinion is that no one desktop environment is any more secure than
the next just because of the way they work and what they are used for.
However, I do believe "smaller" less complicated DE tend to be more
secure as they have less "features" that can be exploited. Personally,
I don't use a desktop.  A good window manager is all I need.

And for what it's worth, the biggest security hole in any system is the
user.

B

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Mario Castelán Castro]

Security and privacy are not products. No software provides them as a 
finished product ready for consumption. Software is just a tool used in 
achieving either. One must also ask and answer: security against 
_what_?. The habits of the user are just as important, and very often 
they are the weakest link.


In other words, do not think that you have privacy or security just 
because you are using some particular security-related or 
privacy-related piece of software or protocol, like GNU PG, Tor, TLS or 
an hypothetical hardened Desktop environment; these software do their 
job, and usually are good at it, but if you have bad practices, then you 
will be turning all of that software into just a hindrance to an 
attacker. Just for en example, study the case of "dread pirate roberts".


El 27/10/15 a las 08:16, Michael Jones escribió:

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski"  wrote:



Hi,
Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
GNOME etc.)?

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 14:01 +0100, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian
> users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?

Hand picking components and evaluating them on their own is probably
the best way to go.

Possibly also examining alternatives to Debian, such as Tails or Qubes
OS, depending on how security conscious and/or attached to Debian you
are.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5





signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Tim McDonough]

I agree with several other comments with regards to security not being 
necessarily related to a specific desktop environment. In my opinion I 
think the best security comes from using both a Linux distribution and a 
desktop environment that you (or the admin) is very familiar with and 
understands configuration issues related to security. I believe if 
someone uses the "distro of the day" you are more likely to overlook 
something.


For whatever it may be worth my personal choice is usually LXDE on 
Debian. LXDE is pretty straight forward to configure and is seems fairly 
frugal with its use of resources. Outside of a server environment my 
main Linux machine is an older laptop. With LXDE and a solid state disk 
even a dual-core machine is very responsive.


Tim

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 27 October 2015 13:01:09 Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?

Speaking personally, and we will all do that, and you will get a great pile of 
different answers, including "don't use a desktop", but speaking personally, 
I recommend Trinity Desktop Environment.
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Lisi

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[jonas hedman]

On 15-10-27 14:01:09, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and 
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME 
> etc.)?
> 

What is your threat model?

-- 
Jonas Hedman 

XMPP:n...@jabber.at
PGP Key: 0x5c3989e0616bb08c
Fingerprint: 8F72 C5BE AAFA B4BA 8F46  9185 5C39 89E0 616B B08C


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Michael Jones]

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski"  wrote:

>
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
> and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?
>
>

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Michael Jones]

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski"  wrote:

>
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
> and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?
>
>

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Himanshu Shekhar]

I hope this discussion should continue, rather than conclude, as more views
means more purity in idea.

As far as security is concerned, it is the Debian OS which determines
policies more than the DE. Also, I would like to categorize them as under:
KDE : Heavy, high-end graphics, consumes resources (
GNOME : Moderate, cool graphics, consumes moderate resources,
Xfce : Light, not-so-good graphics, customizable, consumes less resources
MATE : Moderate, cool graphics, consumes moderate resources, BASED ON GNOME2
LXDE : Extremely light, XP type looks, minimal resource consumption

For everyday use, I prefer to GNOME (gnome3), personal opinion, while many
people hate the changes, but it's pretty good.
You can prefer to MATE if you were a gnome user and were used to it.
You should use XFCE or LXDE if you don't care about the looks but the
performance.

Also, for a lazy weekend, if you have DVD1 of the iso image OR good
internet, then you can install any desktop environment and have a try
yourself rather than having other's opinions. That would let you know what
suits you.
Disk space is not a big issue these days. :)
-- 
Regards
Himanshu Shekhar
IIIT-Allahabad
IRM2015006