Re: Debian desktop news
On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400 Stephen Allen marathon.duran...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:33:04AM -0400, Guy Gold wrote: GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much about that. I've heard this said by other prior too. It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right. Gnome-Shell works fine on an older circa 2005 IBM X41 laptop. I've been running it since it came to SID. The main criteria in my experience is having enough RAM. I have 1.5 Gb and Gnome-Shell runs in about a 300 Mb of ram, and that's with a handful of Gnome-Shell-Extensions to boot. It runs faster and much smoother than Gnome 2 ever did on this laptop! When Gnome 3 was introduced to sid on my 2GB workstation, it did not work, and 'upgraded' me to the fallback which contained almost none of my previous environment. As I posted at the time, it was as if an update to Windows 7 told me my machine was now inadequate and gave me Windows 98 instead. I eventually worked out that my on-board graphics system should have at least a rudimentary form of hardware acceleration, and found out how to enable it in my driver, where it had been disabled by default. Gnome 3 would then run. So please lets stop the misinformation. Indeed. Let's hear about peoples' actual experiences. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812093757.0af69...@jretrading.com
Re: Debian desktop news
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joe j...@jretrading.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400 Stephen Allen marathon.duran...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote: GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much about that. I've heard this said by other prior too. It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right. Fedora 17's GNOME Shell doesn't require, really want, or even want hardware acceleration. This [1] was the initial announcement. I have no idea though whether Wheezy's got this or not. http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=swpnfhbhw9wdesh3pjv_c3xyfszz7an5lbsqqejdux...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian desktop news
On Sun, 2012-08-12 at 08:18 -0400, Tom H wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joe j...@jretrading.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400 Stephen Allen marathon.duran...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote: GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much about that. I've heard this said by other prior too. It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right. Fedora 17's GNOME Shell doesn't require, really want, or even want hardware acceleration. This [1] was the initial announcement. I have no idea though whether Wheezy's got this or not. http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html I stopped reading at There are probably bugs!, not really. However, it seems bitty, just to run Fedora as a guest and not to run GNOME3 for serious work. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1344774315.2207.11.camel@precise
Re: Debian desktop news
So please lets stop the misinformation. Indeed. Let's hear about peoples' actual experiences. I've used Wheezy both on my Toshiba Tecra A8 and in a VM on a previous workstation. I was not impressed at all with Gnome3's requirement for graphic acceleration to just run the desktop. My laptop uses an Intel graphics chip and the (now fried) workstation used an older nVidia GeForce 7 series card. At the time that was using just the nv driver. Just my $0.02. -- Pete Orrall p...@cs1x.com If there isn't a way, I'll make one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cab43j+kqtbxekflz6149_7udpuphv9vzo4vahemj+b-rpwt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian desktop news
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 06:09:19AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 23:58 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: So please lets stop the misinformation. GNOME3 eats much more resources. GNOME3 breaks every sane workflow for artist. Of course it does, as I stated, Again, on an old laptop like mine as stated, I have hand no problem running Debian Gnome-Shell for some time. In terms of work-flow, being a sane one is quite subjective. I understand that most people don't like to adapt to new things and get set in their ways -- but if we all did that, no progress would ever be made. Tends to get worse as we age too, which makes moi quite an anomaly. Ralf have you tried Cinnamon? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812180055.ga6...@thinkpad.gateway.2wire.net
Re: Debian desktop news
On Sun, 2012-08-12 at 14:00 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: I understand that most people don't like to adapt to new things and get set in their ways -- but if we all did that, no progress would ever be made. Yesno. I still use the same forks and knives as I used in my childhood, but in my childhood the television set was black and white, today it's a color TV set. Tends to get worse as we age too Yesno. It still belongs to the kind of progress. Ralf have you tried Cinnamon? No, but I already checked if Mate and Cinnamon are available for different distros. I won't be trapped by one distro. I switch distros, when ever I guess that it's less work to get what I want. Thank you for mention Cinnamon. I already heard about it, but Xfce and LXDE seem to be the most common DEs for people who used GNOME2 in the past and who are subscribed to Linux audio lists :). At the moment I'll stay with Xfce. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1344796079.2207.106.camel@precise
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:33:04AM -0400, Guy Gold wrote: GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much about that. I've heard this said by other prior too. Gnome-Shell works fine on an older circa 2005 IBM X41 laptop. I've been running it since it came to SID. The main criteria in my experience is having enough RAM. I have 1.5 Gb and Gnome-Shell runs in about a 300 Mb of ram, and that's with a handful of Gnome-Shell-Extensions to boot. It runs faster and much smoother than Gnome 2 ever did on this laptop! So please lets stop the misinformation. Anything using the GTK2 toolkit is a step backward simply because of the outstanding bugs that will never be fixed. GTK3 and Gnome-Shell are an improvement in terms of speed. If one wants the older look of the GTK2 Gnome interface, it can be had, using Cinnamon. MATE isn't going anywhere in the future because it relies on buggy GTK2. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812035853.ga10...@thinkpad.gateway.2wire.net
Re: Debian desktop news
On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 23:58 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: So please lets stop the misinformation. GNOME3 eats much more resources. GNOME3 breaks every sane workflow for artist. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1344744559.3149.12.camel@precise
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 03:08:50PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Is this [1] true? I welcome this. Partly. See http://lists.debian.org/jvu3q0$kgo$1...@dough.gmane.org and the ongoing thread. However, I don't know whether you can really say Debian+GNONE3. Debian is nothing without the packages. Gnome 3 is part of Debian. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri,Aug 10 02:26:PM, Darac Marjal wrote: However, I don't know whether you can really say Debian+GNONE3. Debian is nothing without the packages. Gnome 3 is part of Debian. When was GNOME3 the default desktop for Debain ? (luckily , it was not in squeeze, which came with GNOME2 , I'm unning Squeeze with Gnome 2.3 , am I missing anything ? -- Quick and simple Linux solutions Blog - http://www.at4me.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120810133304.ga25...@glen.eglb.local
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:33:04AM -0400, Guy Gold wrote: On Fri,Aug 10 02:26:PM, Darac Marjal wrote: However, I don't know whether you can really say Debian+GNONE3. Debian is nothing without the packages. Gnome 3 is part of Debian. When was GNOME3 the default desktop for Debain ? (luckily , it was not in squeeze, which came with GNOME2 , I'm unning Squeeze with Gnome 2.3 , am I missing anything ? GNOME 3 has never been the default desktop for Debian Stable. It was, for a while, the default for Wheezy, but has been replaced by XFCE because GNOME 3 will not fit on the first CD image. You will still be able to install GNOME 3 by either downloading more images or using the standard repositories. GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much about that. -dsr- -- http://randomstring.org/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. You can't fight for freedom by taking away rights. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120810135513.gz8...@randomstring.org
Re: Debian desktop news
Guy writes: When was GNOME3 the default desktop for Debain ? Gnome was the default desktop for quite a while. It was assumed that Gnome3 would be the default for Wheezy but it turns out to be too large to fit on the first CD. Gnome3 will presumably be a choice in Tasksel. It would be possible, I suppose, to make Gnome the default desktop on the first DVD but I see no reason why the installer crew should make the extra effort. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/877gt6zun8@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri,Aug 10 09:55:AM, Dan Ritter wrote: GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much Yes, I have worked with XFCE . Does that mean that future releases of Debian will no longer support GNOME 2 ? -- Quick and simple Linux solutions Blog - http://www.at4me.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120810143552.gb25...@glen.eglb.local
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, 2012-08-10 at 09:33 -0400, Guy Gold wrote: On Fri,Aug 10 02:26:PM, Darac Marjal wrote: However, I don't know whether you can really say Debian+GNONE3. Debian is nothing without the packages. Gnome 3 is part of Debian. When was GNOME3 the default desktop for Debain ? (luckily , it was not in squeeze, which came with GNOME2 , I'm unning Squeeze with Gnome 2.3 , am I missing anything ? For some people GNOME is GNOME. For me GNOME3 isn't GNOME. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1344611584.1261.38.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:35:52 -0400, Guy Gold wrote: Does that mean that future releases of Debian will no longer support GNOME 2 ? Yes, I think so... since Wheezy and until Squeeze is supported. GNOME2 has been (or will be soon) deprecated/dead end from upstream GNOME project (the same it was KDE3) so what can distributions do to handle this? GNOME2 (and most important, its related libraries) is not going to receive enhancements anymore so should distributions spend their scarce resources in packaging a DE (with OTOH, is a rather bigger and complex project) that is not being actively developed/evolved? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/k03dtd$qus$1...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Debian desktop news
Yes, there it is : from : http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWheezy === Packages versions apt: 0.9.7 kernel: Linux 3.2 gcc: 4.7.1 Gnome 3.4, KDE 4.8, Xfce 4.8 libc: eglibc 2.13 X Server: Xorg R7.7 == On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:35:52 -0400, Guy Gold wrote: Does that mean that future releases of Debian will no longer support GNOME 2 ? Yes, I think so... since Wheezy and until Squeeze is supported. GNOME2 has been (or will be soon) deprecated/dead end from upstream GNOME project (the same it was KDE3) so what can distributions do to handle this? GNOME2 (and most important, its related libraries) is not going to receive enhancements anymore so should distributions spend their scarce resources in packaging a DE (with OTOH, is a rather bigger and complex project) that is not being actively developed/evolved? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/k03dtd$qus$1...@dough.gmane.org -- Guy Gold -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/calq72qe4ljdsj7ac80pdq5t7ht3eim0pwoxkcdubvqcxrx-...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian desktop news
On Fri, 2012-08-10 at 13:07 -0400, Guy Gold wrote: Yes, there it is : from : http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWheezy === Packages versions apt: 0.9.7 kernel: Linux 3.2 gcc: 4.7.1 Gnome 3.4, KDE 4.8, Xfce 4.8 libc: eglibc 2.13 X Server: Xorg R7.7 == On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:35:52 -0400, Guy Gold wrote: Does that mean that future releases of Debian will no longer support GNOME 2 ? Yes, I think so... since Wheezy and until Squeeze is supported. GNOME2 has been (or will be soon) deprecated/dead end from upstream GNOME project (the same it was KDE3) so what can distributions do to handle this? GNOME2 (and most important, its related libraries) is not going to receive enhancements anymore so should distributions spend their scarce resources in packaging a DE (with OTOH, is a rather bigger and complex project) that is not being actively developed/evolved? Greetings, Oops, I didn't notice your question. Yep, when I used testing one day there was an upgrade from GNOME2 to GNOME3, without getting a warning and it pulled in pulseaudio, while I choose Debian, because there were no dependency to pulseaudio. Until to many things are unclear regarding to Debian, e.g. systemd yes or no, I prefer other distros at the moment. Btw. I guess systemd soon or later will become part of all distros, due to upstream dependencies. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1344621016.1236.25.camel@localhost.localdomain
