Re: I2O article
i2o seems to be not so much of a threat any longer. Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. Wired News published the URL, and thousands of people downloaded copies of the i2o standard before the i2o group removed it from the server. As far as I can tell, they have blown any non-disclosure case they ever might have had. Unless they make _tremendous_ changes in their standard, we now know all of what we need to know to write device drivers for it. Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
i2o seems to be not so much of a threat any longer. Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. Wired News published the URL, and thousands of people downloaded copies of the i2o standard before the i2o group removed it from the server. As far as I can tell, they have blown any non-disclosure case they ever might have had. Unless they make _tremendous_ changes in their standard, we now know all of what we need to know to write device drivers for it. grin Wonder how many of them said DOH and slapped their forehead in a most Homer-like fashion? Later, Kevin Traas Baan Business Systems Systems Analyst Langley, BC, Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] (604) 882-8169 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
Bruce Perens writes: Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. ... As far as I can tell, they have blown any non-disclosure case they ever might have had. I just read everything on the I2O site, including the Initiative Agreement. While they require that the standard itself be kept secret, I see nothing that would prohibit the publication of a driver with source. Unless they make _tremendous_ changes in their standard, we now know all of what we need to know to write device drivers for it. They can't make major changes: there are already products in the pipeline. Minor changes should be easy to reverse-engineer, given the current document. If I2O becomes a truly public standard, I think it will be big plus for free software. Anyone heard any rumors about where to find a copy of the standard? -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
Kevin Traas writes: Wonder how many of them said DOH and slapped their forehead in a most Homer-like fashion? I wonder if it was truly a mistake. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just read everything on the I2O site, including the Initiative Agreement. While they require that the standard itself be kept secret, I see nothing that would prohibit the publication of a driver with source. Just their non-disclosure agreement. Anyone heard any rumors about where to find a copy of the standard? I'm sure you'll hear from someone who has a copy. Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
( Re Message From: Bruce Perens ) i2o seems to be not so much of a threat any longer. Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. Wired News published the URL, and thousands of people downloaded copies of the i2o standard before the i2o group removed it from the server. As far as I can tell, they have blown any non-disclosure case they ever might have had. Unless they make _tremendous_ changes in their standard, we now know all of what we need to know to write device drivers for it. Well, it looks as though my surmise that In practice, however, I cannot see I20 being around for very long before the anarchic element suss it out and distribute its characteristics for free was a prophecy anticipated by events. BTW, I wouldn't mind finding out about it myself ... Ted.([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
john == john [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: john I wonder if it was truly a mistake. Maybe someone in the group runs Linux. ;-} Glenn -- Glenn Amerine Inet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer Systems AnalystVoice: (614)224-1336 Metropolitan Human Services Commission Fax: (614)224-6472 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. Wired News published the URL, and thousands of people downloaded copies of the i2o standard before the i2o group removed it from the server. Wonder how many of them said DOH and slapped their forehead in a most Homer-like fashion? Or, was it a deliberate leak? I can easily picture a decision to accidentally place it there until someone had to officially notice the mistake. Think of how much quieter (sp???) certain groups ( like us) will be . . . rick -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
Sometime after I first started talking with the press about i2o, someone pointed out that the i2o group had left their standard document (about 500 pages) on their anonymous FTP server. Wired News published the URL, and thousands of people downloaded copies of the i2o standard before the i2o group removed it from the server. Wonder how many of them said DOH and slapped their forehead in a most Homer-like fashion? Or, was it a deliberate leak? I can easily picture a decision to accidentally place it there until someone had to officially notice the mistake. Think of how much quieter (sp???) certain groups ( like us) will be . . . Interesting theory. Very plausible. Later, Kevin Traas Baan Business Systems Systems Analyst Langley, BC, Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] (604) 882-8169 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
Excuse my ignoramce, but what is I2O ? Alfonso. -- Alfonso E. Urdaneta VOX: 407.729.3840 Harris Corp/Transcomm Division FAX: 407.729.1962 PO Box 5100, MS 6B.3827mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne, FL 32902.5100 http://www.transcomm.ess.harris.com The Harris Corporation agrees with everything I say. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
( Re Message From: Hamish Moffatt ) G'day Bruce. Thought you might be interested to know, there was an article in the Australian Personal Computer magazine [ snip ] The most likely victim of this 'commercialised standard' would be the many flavours of Linux, the public domain, freeware operating system based on Unix [ snip ] 'It's a closed standard, it requires a NDA, and you need a license to develop software for it.' Assuming this assessment is correct (and why not?), I think the key question is: Will it in due course become, for practical purposes, impossible to practice computing without these I20 thingies? When I started using Linux 5 years ago I installed SLS off a dozen floppies onto a 486-DX25 with 4MB RAM and 40MB HDD. Nowadays, 16MB RAM, 500MB HDD and a CDROM are almost indispensible; then, and for the next few years, the CDROM, at least, was a luxury. So what augmented functionality will flow from I20? Or will it simply be the case that with the passage of time it will become so difficult to find non-I20 kit that for practical purposes that will be all that's possible? (Just as it's not so easy now to find a 5-1/4 floppy drive if you need one). Bruce's description of the closed standard makes the situation sound like driving a car, which you can't do in most countries without passing a driving test, paying an annual licence fee for the vehicle, in some cases paying toll charges for certain roads, parking-meter fess etc. That would make PC+I20 usage an activity which the industry had encapsulated into a money-milkable cow. I suppose existing PC users who want to stick with Linux/FreeBSD etc could simply stick with their non-I20 boxes which with time would acquire the status of wooden plough-shares. Alternatively, people may start to migrate to non-PC machines: If you want to use UNIX in one form or another you could buy HP, SUN or DEC-ALPHA hardware -- Linux runs on the ALPHA at least! They're more expensive, but not THAT much more. In practice, however, I cannot see I20 being around for very long before the anarchic element suss it out and distribute its characteristics for free -- it may be self-defeating. So is this in practice a story which looks scary but need not cause us serious worry? Finally, can I seek clarification of you need a license to develop software for it? There must be a limit on this: If I wanted to write a C program to perform some trivial task which implicated an I20 peripheral (as people do all the time now for non-I20), would I have to get a licence? Would the portions of the code which have to do with the peripheral be in some sense the property of the I20 consortium? This looks crazy to me, unless all the I20-specific code was wrapped up in the OS. Best wishes, Ted.([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: I2O article
On Tue, Aug 26, 1997 at 10:41:12AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote: Assuming this assessment is correct (and why not?), I think the key question is: Will it in due course become, for practical purposes, impossible to practice computing without these I20 thingies? [snip] So what augmented functionality will flow from I20? Or will it simply be the case that with the passage of time it will become so difficult to find non-I20 kit that for practical purposes that will be all that's possible? (Just as it's not so easy now to find a 5-1/4 floppy drive if you need one). It's an interesting thought, and you could well be right. The universal serial bus has been in the making for years it seems; my current motherboard of 10 months has it. Yet I am still to see any peripherals available for it here in Australia at least -- weren't we to be getting keyboards etc for it? Perhaps I2O will go the same way. Perhaps Intel will make the same mistake(?) they did with the Pentium manual NDA section; most of the details are in the i960 manual anyway, and they are the same on the Pentium (eg 4mb page support). The i960 manual is completely open, so Linux has 4mb page support. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, StudIEAust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Student, computer science computer systems engineering.3rd year, RMIT. http://hamish.home.ml.org/ (PGP key here) CPOM: [* ] 53% Your train has been cancelled due to defective government at Spring Street.. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
