Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
The freedom to offend? I'm sorry, but there is something wrong here. I think someone is misunderstanding netiquette (or etiquette) and good manners with freedom/censorship by law enforcement. A good mannered people is not forbidden to curse. He freely chooses not to. Well, in some cultures, you are really forbidden to curse. In others, they allow you to do so only in certain places (like a football stadium, for instance). In a live person contact, a group can choose not to hang out with a guy that is disturbing. That is the freedom to be with people you like, people that contribute to society, that you can develop a friendship. In an internet group, it's not the group that moves around to hang out somewhere else. It's the disturbing guy that is supposed to fit or go away. If the majority of the group is for people who curse, mistreat persons, and alike, Miss Manners will leave. But usually, a big group that has a very strong philosophy of sharing and contributing to society will have a majority of good mannered people. This is a comforting thought, isn't it? After all, we all (or at least the great majority I strongly believe), do not want Miss Manners to leave. We like her. ;) Beco. On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 08:14:23PM +0100, Joe wrote: And finally, there are a few people who are just plain prickly... but one of the most important of all freedoms is the freedom to offend. Once that is outlawed, censorship becomes trivial to implement. Bollocks. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121019230109.GH7861@tal -- Dr Beco I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. (Groucho Marx) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caluyw2zs7hb_m+lf5ua_eyp-f4ebqhm1-qdmydite6gr4r6...@mail.gmail.com
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 08:14:23PM +0100, Joe wrote: And finally, there are a few people who are just plain prickly... but one of the most important of all freedoms is the freedom to offend. Once that is outlawed, censorship becomes trivial to implement. Bollocks. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121019230109.GH7861@tal
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 19:12 +0300, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote: Imho, many of the rude people would be quite gentle and timid, if you met them in person. Perhaps :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1350056754.1166.29.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On 10/05/2012 11:56 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 15:07 +0300, Panayiotis Karabassis wrote: And... Debian is notorious for mistreating newcomers! I have had a friend swear to never ask a question on Debian forums again, after the reply to his first question. I agree that Linux communities are notorious for mistreating one member by another member. Debian and Ubuntu mailing lists are the less rough Linux communities I know. It's much harder on other Linux lists. I never noticed censorship or a few people that claim to speak for most people on Debian and Ubuntu lists. Forums usually are less good than mailing lists. Yes, sure. I am not sure how this fits with the rest of the gnu/linux ideology, which is about freedom and community. I think the problem is exacerbated by the nature of internet communication, where it is both easier to be rude, and easier to misunderstand and be offended by the tone of another's message. Imho, many of the rude people would be quite gentle and timid, if you met them in person. YMMV, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50759e58.9070...@gmail.com
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:12:08 +0300 Panayiotis Karabassis pan...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, sure. I am not sure how this fits with the rest of the gnu/linux ideology, which is about freedom and community. I think the problem is exacerbated by the nature of internet communication, where it is both easier to be rude, and easier to misunderstand and be offended by the tone of another's message. Imho, many of the rude people would be quite gentle and timid, if you met them in person. By the nature of Linux, people who use it regularly are accustomed to using the Net to find solutions to their many problems. There is therefore a tendency to be a bit terse with someone who asks for help with a problem but has clearly not made the slightest effort to solve it himself. And when a student tries to get others to do his homework... There's no excuse for real rudeness, but the prospect of being told rather brusquely that the solution to the problem is the fourth entry of the first results page of an obvious Google search does encourage a bit of self-reliance, one of the most important personality traits of a successful Linux user. Sadly, there are also some very entrenched opinions about certain matters, but this is no more common with Linux people than Windows people, nor indeed than political or religious partisans. There is a lot less tolerance on the Net for technical or other bigotry than there used to be. And finally, there are a few people who are just plain prickly... but one of the most important of all freedoms is the freedom to offend. Once that is outlawed, censorship becomes trivial to implement. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010201423.3fc0b...@jretrading.com
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 03:14:23 PM Joe wrote: And finally, there are a few people who are just plain prickly... but one of the most important of all freedoms is the freedom to offend. As is the freedom to choose to brush off offenses--be they real or perceived-- or to take them personally. I'm sure Miss Manners has waxed eloquently on the topic more than once. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210101528.27699.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:08:33AM -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: On Ter, 21 Ago 2012, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I used sarcasm, but using sarcasm is bad behavior. And I'm not proud when I misbehave. The problem is that it is not the first time you misbehave. Nor the second, or even third. Not to mention the times where you don't actually say anything particularly offensive, but use this list as a personal space to rant about anything you don't like. +100 I'm a lurker mostly but have been here a long time; your assessment seems quite accurate from where I sit. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120822121418.ga13...@thinkpad.gateway.2wire.net
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
I agree. The world has gone soft and to touchy feely, group hug for my liking... Say what you mean, and mean what you say... Sent from my HTC. - Reply message - From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 2:08 am Subject: OT: man in the middle attack ? To: debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 07:54 +0100, Lisi wrote: There are tribes in Africa who wear almost no clothes. That is in general illegal in public here. *chuckle* In Germany it's neither forbidden nor allowed and there are some few situations, when a judge is forced to decide, in what situation nudity is bad and in what situations nudity is ok. Fortunately I'm not a judge. In Germany a bandana can become a serious issue. If a Muslim teacher (teaching math, German or what ever) is wearing a headscarf, this could lead to a lawsuit. Ridiculous, but true. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1345532927.6041.52.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 09:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 07:54 +0100, Lisi wrote: There are tribes in Africa who wear almost no clothes. That is in general illegal in public here. *chuckle* In Germany it's neither forbidden nor allowed and there are some few situations, when a judge is forced to decide, in what situation nudity is bad and in what situations nudity is ok. Fortunately I'm not a judge. In Germany a bandana can become a serious issue. If a Muslim teacher (teaching math, German or what ever) is wearing a headscarf, this could lead to a lawsuit. Ridiculous, but true. Regards, Ralf PS: German neo-Nazis don't wear swastikas, the young German anti-fascists wear clothes with patches showing crossed out swastikas and those young anti-fascists are sued for showing anticonstitutional symbols, so the previous conviction is much higher, than for a crime as beating up somebody with another color of the skin. At that time things aren't funny anymore. :( -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1345533774.6041.58.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
Ahh. Thanks for the heads up. Sent from my HTC. - Reply message - From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 2:28 am Subject: OT: man in the middle attack ? To: Chris rac...@makeworld.com Cc: debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 02:20 -0500, Chris wrote: joe1assis...@gmail.com joe1assis...@gmail.com is our best friend! ;). I suspect that most of us filter out joe1assis...@gmail.com for a long time. Yes, I (we) receive Joey's input too. - Ralf
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
... I have the perfect answer! Ban all of gmail *evil grin* That ought to do it! Sent from my HTC. - Reply message - From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 2:43 am Subject: OT: man in the middle attack ? To: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 08:33 +0100, Lisi wrote: On Tuesday 21 August 2012 08:20:15 Chris wrote: Anyone else getting this? Yes. I understood that quoting Spam confuses the filters. Lisi In this case it doesn't matter, we even could reply to Joe. Joe is immortal. The complete list was silent when getting mails from Joe for a very long time, but it anyway didn't help. Don't worry about quoting! Everybody with a workflow that does allow to ban Joe by the used MUA, should ban Joe. Joe doesn't have a bad day, something we would be able to forgive, it's just spam. Joe doesn't annoy me, but it's not pleasant to read that Joe still annoys some people. IMO this address should be banned. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1345535022.6041.68.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Ma, 21 aug 12, 02:47:29, Chris wrote: Joe doesn't annoy me, but it's not pleasant to read that Joe still annoys some people. IMO this address should be banned. It wouldn't help, as his[1] e-mails go to the private address, not to the list. [1] I'm quite sure it's a misconfigured autoresponder Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 10:59 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: I'm quite sure it's a misconfigured autoresponder I'm quiet sure that you're right :(. So replying Joe should have a positive effect, but it doesn't. Joe doesn't take care about incoming mails ;p. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1345537402.6041.84.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: OT: man in the middle attack ?
On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 10:23 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 10:59 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: I'm quite sure it's a misconfigured autoresponder I'm quiet sure that you're right :(. So replying Joe should have a positive effect, but it doesn't. Joe doesn't take care about incoming mails ;p. Seriously, somebody misconfigured an autoresponser and after that this person died. Shit happens all the time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1345538137.6041.86.camel@localhost.localdomain
