Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-23 Thread Paul Johnson
Ron Johnson wrote in Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:

 But you're using Google Groups, and Paul is axing about Google Mail.

Not that they're much better.  GG is such a massive usenet spew source that
many sites won't carry them at all.  The post you replied to never
propagated to my feed of gmane.

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-18 Thread Michelle Konzack
Am 2007-05-09 09:50:30, schrieb Andrew Sackville-West:
 On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 01:17:43PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
  On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 14:52:28 -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
   :0
   * ^.*debianhelp.org
   /dev/null
   
   is approved!!!
  
  It may be better to use
  
  * ^Message-Id:.*debianhelp.org
  
  otherwise there might be some collateral damage: Since debianhelp.org
  puts this string into their (long and ugly) message IDs it tends to
  propagate into other people's mail headers via the In-Reply-To and
  References fields.
 
 I'm not sure that's a bad thing. as disjointed as the threads with the
 debianhelp stuff already in there, they'd be even more so with it
 removed, but the messages that follow still intact.  I suppose a
 killfile would be the way to go instead of using /dev/null. Then the
 whole sub-thread would disappear. 

Why not:

8--
:0
* ^Message-ID:.*debianhelp.org
/dev/null

:0fw
* ^References:.*debianhelp.org
|sed 's/debianhelp.\org/xx.xxx/g'
8--

which will kill all messages coming from debianhelp.org
and then remove the reference to debianhelp.org from
other messages without breaking threads...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-17 Thread pedxing
On May 16, 10:30 am, Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 05/16/07 03:15, Atis wrote:

  [snip]
  Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

  (Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)

  If you miss it, why don't you request for it.

 I don't use gmail, so don't have any standing with Them.

  So far, all my feature requests have been implemented.

 You have standing, though, so it would be nice if you made the
 request... :)

Such a request is really not necessary.  Instead of using the gmail
interface to post to a group, use the Google groups interface (which I
am using right now).   You use your gmail login, but you have a much
better interface to the newsgroup.  It defaults to bottom posting,
doesn't munge the subject, tracks your postings, and automatically
keeps you in the right context.

Up until a few days ago, I was reading the digest via email, and that
sucked.  Then I needed to post, and switched over to groups
interface.  Wow, night and day.  Like they say, right tool for the
right job...

-Ped


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-17 Thread Paul Johnson
Ron Johnson wrote in Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:

 Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .
 
 (Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)

Do they support threads yet?  Reply-to-list?

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-17 Thread Paul Johnson
Chris Bannister wrote in Article
[EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:

 On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:46:21AM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:
 Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
 Microsoft said so =_)
 
 It could be argued that it defaults to putting the cursor at the top so
 to enable easy snipping of unnecessary text. If it defaulted to bottom
 posting then even less snipping would occur. :-(

There's a little more to Schlabach's statement than you seem to have an
understanding of:  Outlook throws on a five-line forward-style header and
does not indent by default, making replies in OE very hard to make look
like anything other than a forwarded email.

 IMHO top posting is preferable to bottom posting without snipping.

But that makes it even harder for the next person to fix the problem on
their reply.  Top posting just compounds the problem in any situtaion. 

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-17 Thread pedxing
On May 17, 2:10 pm, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ron Johnson wrote in Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
 gmane.linux.debian.user:

  Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

  (Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)

 Do they support threads yet?  Reply-to-list?

Threads, yes (but they call them topics), if you mean that you can
view the thread.  The whole thread shows up post-for-post with the
opportunity to reply to any post.  Reply-to-list, I'm not totally sure
what you mean.  When I reply, it automatically replies to the list,
not the individual (unless I click on reply to author).  Hopefully
there is nothing wrong with this post, I just clicked on reply,
snipped your sig , wrote and sent.   Unless you meant something else.

As far as I can tell, it conforms to the norms of newsgroup posting,
and has many of the nicities that you would expect from a newsgroup
reader.

-Ped

P.S. Looking at this thread, it looks like I have inadvertently joined
a long and venerable OT thread.  I am not worthy!


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-17 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/17/07 18:58, pedxing wrote:
 On May 17, 2:10 pm, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ron Johnson wrote in Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
 gmane.linux.debian.user:

 Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .
 (Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)
 Do they support threads yet?  Reply-to-list?
 
 Threads, yes (but they call them topics), if you mean that you can
 view the thread.  The whole thread shows up post-for-post with the
 opportunity to reply to any post.  Reply-to-list, I'm not totally sure
 what you mean.  When I reply, it automatically replies to the list,
 not the individual (unless I click on reply to author).  Hopefully
 there is nothing wrong with this post, I just clicked on reply,
 snipped your sig , wrote and sent.   Unless you meant something else.
 
 As far as I can tell, it conforms to the norms of newsgroup posting,
 and has many of the nicities that you would expect from a newsgroup
 reader.
 
 -Ped
 
 P.S. Looking at this thread, it looks like I have inadvertently joined
 a long and venerable OT thread.  I am not worthy!

But you're using Google Groups, and Paul is axing about Google Mail.

- --
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Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 05:36:57PM +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
 
 It could be argued that it defaults to putting the cursor at the top so
 to enable easy snipping of unnecessary text. If it defaulted to bottom
 posting then even less snipping would occur. :-(

No, in the default setup it is very difficult to snip anything.

 IMHO top posting is preferable to bottom posting without snipping.

Preferable? No. Both are bad, but in different ways.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/16/07 00:36, Chris Bannister wrote:
 On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:46:21AM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:
 On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick Thomas wrote in Article
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
 gmane.linux.debian.user:

 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
 Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
 utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
 language?
 
 [snipped stuff which should have been snipped by previous poster]
 
 Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
 Microsoft said so =_)
 
 It could be argued that it defaults to putting the cursor at the top so
 to enable easy snipping of unnecessary text. If it defaulted to bottom
 posting then even less snipping would occur. :-(
 
 IMHO top posting is preferable to bottom posting without snipping.
 Also it is preferable to snip the sig and any disclaimers etc.

Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

(Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Atis

[snip]

Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

(Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)


If you miss it, why don't you request for it.

So far, all my feature requests have been implemented.

Regards,
Atis


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Ron Johnson
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On 05/16/07 03:15, Atis wrote:
 [snip]
 Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

 (Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)
 
 If you miss it, why don't you request for it.

I don't use gmail, so don't have any standing with Them.

 So far, all my feature requests have been implemented.

You have standing, though, so it would be nice if you made the
request... :)

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 03:10:10AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:

 Also it is preferable to snip the sig and any disclaimers etc.
 
 Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

Interesting, I don't find this option in mutt (though I bet vim could do 
this).  But I couldn't use it anyway as I am subscribed to a *LUG* 
mailinglist where I often see some very bad postings: beneath the sig 
without  for the quote and without any space between the old sig and 
the new text.  Sometimes you have to look twice to actualy find the 
answer.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
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(Albert Einstein)


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-16 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/16/07 00:36, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:46:21AM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:

On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Rick Thomas wrote in Article
[EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:


http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
language?

[snipped stuff which should have been snipped by previous poster]


Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
Microsoft said so =_)

It could be argued that it defaults to putting the cursor at the top so
to enable easy snipping of unnecessary text. If it defaulted to bottom
posting then even less snipping would occur. :-(

IMHO top posting is preferable to bottom posting without snipping.
Also it is preferable to snip the sig and any disclaimers etc.


Proper MUAs auto-snip everything under the -- .

(Web gmail is *not* a proper MUA.)

- --


Dang it. Another improper tool :-(

Hugo


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:46:21AM -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:
 On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick Thomas wrote in Article
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
 gmane.linux.debian.user:
 
  http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
 
 Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
 utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
 language?

[snipped stuff which should have been snipped by previous poster]

 Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
 Microsoft said so =_)

It could be argued that it defaults to putting the cursor at the top so
to enable easy snipping of unnecessary text. If it defaulted to bottom
posting then even less snipping would occur. :-(

IMHO top posting is preferable to bottom posting without snipping.
Also it is preferable to snip the sig and any disclaimers etc.

-- 
Chris.
==


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-10 Thread Paul Johnson
Rick Thomas wrote in Article
[EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:

 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
language?

-- 
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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-10 Thread Manaen Schlabach

On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Rick Thomas wrote in Article
[EMAIL PROTECTED] posted to
gmane.linux.debian.user:

 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
language?

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Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
Microsoft said so =_)


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-10 Thread Greg Folkert
On Thu, 2007-05-10 at 09:46 -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:
 On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
  utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow of
  language?
 
 Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
 Microsoft said so =_)

Firsts in top posting, that I know of:

The first M$ program was MS-MAIL.

The first I know about was SYSM.

Anyone else care to comment?
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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-10 Thread Nate Bargmann
* Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007 May 10 12:00 -0500]:
 On Thu, 2007-05-10 at 09:46 -0400, Manaen Schlabach wrote:
  On 5/10/07, Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Almost as bad is when people top post their replies.  Did these people
   utterly fail in grade school, or are they deliberately ignoring the flow 
   of
   language?
  
  Their MS outlook defaults to top posting...therefore it must be ok.
  Microsoft said so =_)
 
 Firsts in top posting, that I know of:
 
 The first M$ program was MS-MAIL.
 
 The first I know about was SYSM.
 
 Anyone else care to comment?

$DIETY help you if you ever decide to format an email correctly in
Lotus Notes.  It is fiercely top post oriented.  I so enjoy scrolling
up and down to read a multiple forwarded and replied to mail in
context.

- Nate 

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-09 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 14:52:28 -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
 On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 09:55:19PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
  On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:
  
   http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
  
  You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
  debianhelp.org account ;)
  
 
 LMAO. thanks!
 
 
 oh and that means
 
 :0
 * ^.*debianhelp.org
 /dev/null
 
 is approved!!!

It may be better to use

* ^Message-Id:.*debianhelp.org

otherwise there might be some collateral damage: Since debianhelp.org
puts this string into their (long and ugly) message IDs it tends to
propagate into other people's mail headers via the In-Reply-To and
References fields.

I only know this by pure coincidence; a friend of mine has recently
started experimenting with banning debianhelp.org from his inbox...

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  Florian   |


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-09 Thread Andrew Sackville-West
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 01:17:43PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
 On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 14:52:28 -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
  On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 09:55:19PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
   On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:
   
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
   
   You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
   debianhelp.org account ;)
   
  
  LMAO. thanks!
  
  
  oh and that means
  
  :0
  * ^.*debianhelp.org
  /dev/null
  
  is approved!!!
 
 It may be better to use
 
 * ^Message-Id:.*debianhelp.org
 
 otherwise there might be some collateral damage: Since debianhelp.org
 puts this string into their (long and ugly) message IDs it tends to
 propagate into other people's mail headers via the In-Reply-To and
 References fields.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing. as disjointed as the threads with the
debianhelp stuff already in there, they'd be even more so with it
removed, but the messages that follow still intact.  I suppose a
killfile would be the way to go instead of using /dev/null. Then the
whole sub-thread would disappear. 

Despite my many posts about this, I still have some reservations
though. I am reluctant to be so draconian. I view it as a personal
flaw. 

A


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-08 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 16:55:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:

 On May 7, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Florian Kulzer wrote:

 On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:

 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

 You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
 debianhelp.org account ;)


 What makes you think I thought it was funny?   (:

Does that mean you work with (or for) people who use email like that? In
that case, let me offer my heartfelt condolences. It was definitely not
my intention to make light of your misery.  :(

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-07 Thread Andrew J. Barr
Rick Thomas wrote:
 
 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

What you do to those people is add an X-Message header to your reply
telling them they have a virus called Microsoft Outlook.

Or do the two-spaces-then-START thing or whatever it is that makes
Outlook think there's an attachment.

-- 
Andrew J. Barr
(614) 581-3537 (Verizon Wireless)

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying the cross.
-- Sinclair Lewis, 1935


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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-07 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:

 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html

You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
debianhelp.org account ;)

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-07 Thread Rick Thomas


On May 7, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Florian Kulzer wrote:


On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:


http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html


You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
debianhelp.org account ;)



What makes you think I thought it was funny?   (:



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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-07 Thread Ron Johnson
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On 05/07/07 14:55, Florian Kulzer wrote:
 On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:
 http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
 
 You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
 debianhelp.org account ;)

And funnier still if you had snipped out all of the OP.

- --
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Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Re: OT - Dilbert on the ethics of e-mail etiquette

2007-05-07 Thread Andrew Sackville-West
On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 09:55:19PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote:
 On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 15:28:14 -0400, Rick Thomas wrote:
 
  http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20070507.html
 
 You could have made this even funnier if you had posted it using a
 debianhelp.org account ;)
 

LMAO. thanks!


oh and that means

:0
* ^.*debianhelp.org
/dev/null

is approved!!!


A


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