Re: So much for Skype.
Hi, I take test account on https://www.ekiga.net/index.php?page=services this works fine with sound and video. so long klaus Am Dienstag, den 24.05.2011, 10:35 +0300 schrieb Dotan Cohen: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 16:01, John Hasler jhas...@debian.org wrote: Dotan writes: Your automobile is not charged with the responsibility to protect the safety of yourself or your passengers. Neither is your computer. As a simple machine it is incapable of being responsible for anything. That was some rather selecting posting. You conveniently ignored my following sentence which addresses the point you make and refutes it. In order to add that responsibility to the automobile, one would have to introduce new features. Yes. Intelligence, self-awareness, and humanity. Like an Airbus? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1306316878.6668.4.camel@LINUXWOLFIBMLMY3773.LINUXWOLF
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:47, Klaus Wolf kl...@linuxwolf.de wrote: Hi, I take test account on https://www.ekiga.net/index.php?page=services this works fine with sound and video. so long klaus Thanks. That page is very informative, and the call-back service is good for troubleshooting. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTim1py=dfznuvccu9++sool-vtt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 16:01, John Hasler jhas...@debian.org wrote: Dotan writes: Your automobile is not charged with the responsibility to protect the safety of yourself or your passengers. Neither is your computer. As a simple machine it is incapable of being responsible for anything. That was some rather selecting posting. You conveniently ignored my following sentence which addresses the point you make and refutes it. In order to add that responsibility to the automobile, one would have to introduce new features. Yes. Intelligence, self-awareness, and humanity. Like an Airbus? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTinAfXtTjJCnL2v8FW=7xa6_rr+...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
Dotan writes: Your automobile is not charged with the responsibility to protect the safety of yourself or your passengers. Neither is your computer. As a simple machine it is incapable of being responsible for anything. In order to add that responsibility to the automobile, one would have to introduce new features. Yes. Intelligence, self-awareness, and humanity. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87k4dhr2o4@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: So much for Skype.
Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 08:31, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Which the OS allows them, so I pass no blame on the Skype devs. My automobile allows me to drive w/o being buckled up. Do you blame the manufacturer or do you blame me for driving w/o buckling up? Strawman. Your automobile is not charged with the responsibility to protect the safety of yourself or your passengers. In order to add that responsibility to the automobile, one would have to introduce new features. Starting to get way OT, but... automobiles are charged with meeting certain safety standards (maintaining structural integrity under specified impacts, deploying airbags, etc.). When an automobile fails to perform under stress, insurance companies and lawyers often try to make that charge very literal. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. Infnord practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dda6e47.3070...@meetinghouse.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 00:06, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Poking holes in the firewall sounds to me like a firewall problem, not a Skype problem. If Skype has admin rights, it will use them stealthily. Why should Skype have admin rights? And what is stealthily? Do you expect it to pop up a big windows and ask to poke a hole in the firewall to work? What other application does that? What is this about super user rights? Does Skype attain elevated privileges when being run as a regular user? How does it do that, and wouldn't that be an OS bug? It's probably only an issue in the Windows world and then only with a user whom is in the administrator's group. Again, that's an OS issue, not a Skype issue. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi=dh=vz5_l+ej4d3y5mahea3zn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 05/22/2011 11:45 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 00:06, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Poking holes in the firewall sounds to me like a firewall problem, not a Skype problem. If Skype has admin rights, it will use them stealthily. Why should Skype have admin rights? Because it thinks it needs system privs? Just like any other app that runs as root. -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd9aa94.3040...@cox.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 03:30, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Because it thinks it needs system privs? Just like any other app that runs as root. Do you run Skype as root? And if you do, then there is no basis to complain about Skype then using elevated privileges. Just as you don't run Iceweasel as root, don't run Skype as root. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTikCtR6=cu0a2wasb8nvqjfjlsk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 05/22/2011 10:22 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 03:30, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Because it thinks it needs system privs? Just like any other app that runs as root. Do you run Skype as root? And if you do, then there is no basis to complain about Skype then using elevated privileges. Just as you don't run Iceweasel as root, don't run Skype as root. I was thinking of setuid() magic. -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd9d48f.9090...@cox.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 06:29, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: I was thinking of setuid() magic. Again an OS issue, not a Skype issue. I agree that since root must install Skype, and since root then owns Skype, the application might setuid. But this is an OS feature, not a Skype feature. How is this not a concern with any other closed-source application that one must install? I could understand derailing the thread into a closed-source vs. open-source debate, which while very productive would not address the issue at hand. For that matter, though, I do agree that setuid is a security risk and not well mitigated. Maybe the issue needs to be dealt with already: how would you suggest changing the kernel behaviour to mitigate the risk? A warning or log entry each time an application uses setuid? At install, at runtime, or both? Something else? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi=PH_xYuyHrHdC2fftbAZE6U-x=y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 05/22/2011 11:22 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 06:29, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: I was thinking of setuid() magic. Again an OS issue, Insofar as the OS provides the feature. not a Skype issue. Yet, *if* Skype uses the function it's because Skype's programmers programmed Skype to use the function. I agree that since root must install Skype, and since root then owns Skype, the application might setuid. But this is an OS feature, not a Skype feature. How is this not a concern with any other closed-source application that one must install? I could understand derailing the thread into a closed-source vs. open-source debate, which while very productive would not address the issue at hand. It's a concern with *all* programs that need to stray from your little protected zone. For that matter, though, I do agree that setuid is a security risk and not well mitigated. Maybe the issue needs to be dealt with already: how would you suggest changing the kernel behaviour to mitigate the risk? A warning or log entry each time an application uses setuid? At install, at runtime, or both? Something else? -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd9e529.1080...@cox.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 07:40, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: I was thinking of setuid() magic. Again an OS issue, Insofar as the OS provides the feature. Indeed, this really is a convenience-before-security feature that reminds me of a certain prolific software vendor. Give me an hour or two, I'd like to start a new thread on this because I really do think that it is a problem that needs addressing sooner rather than later. not a Skype issue. Yet, *if* Skype uses the function it's because Skype's programmers programmed Skype to use the function. Which the OS allows them, so I pass no blame on the Skype devs. I agree that since root must install Skype, and since root then owns Skype, the application might setuid. But this is an OS feature, not a Skype feature. How is this not a concern with any other closed-source application that one must install? I could understand derailing the thread into a closed-source vs. open-source debate, which while very productive would not address the issue at hand. It's a concern with *all* programs that need to stray from your little protected zone. Indeed. I did find this application, but it seems to be far from adequate: http://www.cims.nyu.edu/cgi-comment/info2html?%28cfengine-Tutorial%29The%2520setuid%2520log -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktinbwihzcsfw587agvjebj5ajmq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 06:29, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: I was thinking of setuid() magic. Again an OS issue, not a Skype issue. I agree that since root must install Skype, and since root then owns Skype, the application might setuid. But this is an OS feature, not a Skype feature. How is this not a concern with any other closed-source application that one must install? I could understand derailing the thread into a closed-source vs. open-source debate, which while very productive would not address the issue at hand. Here is one reason why, potential heavy data usage by stealth... http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_105428/article.html -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd9ec8a.3070...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: So much for Skype.
On 05/23/2011 12:01 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 07:40, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] Yet, *if* Skype uses the function it's because Skype's programmers programmed Skype to use the function. Which the OS allows them, so I pass no blame on the Skype devs. My automobile allows me to drive w/o being buckled up. Do you blame the manufacturer or do you blame me for driving w/o buckling up? -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd9f11a.3030...@cox.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 08:31, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Which the OS allows them, so I pass no blame on the Skype devs. My automobile allows me to drive w/o being buckled up. Do you blame the manufacturer or do you blame me for driving w/o buckling up? Strawman. Your automobile is not charged with the responsibility to protect the safety of yourself or your passengers. In order to add that responsibility to the automobile, one would have to introduce new features. Conversely, the Linux kernel is charged with enforcing user privileges. The setuid feature is added on to override that enforcement. The setuid feature is dangerous, as you yourself brought up. It should be limited by either: 1) Disabled by default, and packages which use it should require special permission either at runtime or install (not at compile time). This should be enforced by the kernel. 2) Detailed logging. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktimyjj1psqwl0-kdobvpzazy3nd...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 05/19/2011 06:41 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Hi, Daniel Andersson wrote: Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. I was looking at Ekiga for a client solution, but found that even the plain old and simple echo test was a failure at the time. I know Ekiga has been around for a good while and has quite a history, but I expected better. My unqualified guess is that Ekiga is too correct on how it connects, while Skype disguise the traffic as HTTP trafic or tunnel it or something similar to get through firewall without any configuration. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd620d3.3090...@daniel-gr-andersson.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 19:07, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: A decision to drop or not the Linux version of Skype might depend on how many Linux users pay for Skype-in and Skype-out. I'm one such user. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktinwhr6aoubsrxqobzbb013hd7q...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
Hi, I'm going to snip an awful lot [around 18KB of text email] now, but your email was a great read! The size was impressive even with the biggish chunks of referred text, there was plenty of new dialogue. annathemerm...@hush.com wrote: So your father bought a new laptop to use XP again. If he really wanted to use XP again, it would've been sufficient for him to simply buy a new install disc and license, but in any case, he was obviously sufficiently financially well off to afford it. Some laptops are cheaper than buying a FPP these days, amazing. Okay, so I snipped almost the lot ;-) The other thing is that you can run a SIP service via a ATA or even a VoIP capable modem/router. No need to have a computer on. There are models that do Skype as well, without needing the computer on. Skype has SIP service as well, but I've always been wary of Skype for all sorts of reasons -- mostly due to the proprietary code used, then I always considered Skype-Out / Skype-In to be great hooks and I wasn't going to get hooked. Then there is the whole security risk of using Skype, it pokes it's own holes through firewalls and takes advantage of super user rights whenever it can, silently! And another reason to steer clear is the potential for huge data usage via accidentally becoming a super server node. Right now, I am finding that SIP has been good for quite a while, there are PSTN options that can compete these days too. Using both PSTN and SIP is the way to go. Cheers -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd5472c.5040...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: So much for Skype.
Hi, Daniel Andersson wrote: Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. I was looking at Ekiga for a client solution, but found that even the plain old and simple echo test was a failure at the time. I know Ekiga has been around for a good while and has quite a history, but I expected better. -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd54820.2080...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: So much for Skype.
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 19:37, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Then there is the whole security risk of using Skype, it pokes it's own holes through firewalls and takes advantage of super user rights whenever it can, silently! Poking holes in the firewall sounds to me like a firewall problem, not a Skype problem. What is this about super user rights? Does Skype attain elevated privileges when being run as a regular user? How does it do that, and wouldn't that be an OS bug? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTimMo2Z_Emb10An3xsgUP549nK_=-a...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
Hi, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 19:37, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Then there is the whole security risk of using Skype, it pokes it's own holes through firewalls and takes advantage of super user rights whenever it can, silently! Poking holes in the firewall sounds to me like a firewall problem, not a Skype problem. If Skype has admin rights, it will use them stealthily. What is this about super user rights? Does Skype attain elevated privileges when being run as a regular user? How does it do that, and wouldn't that be an OS bug? It's probably only an issue in the Windows world and then only with a user whom is in the administrator's group. -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd58640.3000...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: So much for Skype.
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 02:41:04AM +1000, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Hi, Daniel Andersson wrote: Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. I was looking at Ekiga for a client solution, but found that even the plain old and simple echo test was a failure at the time. I know Ekiga has been around for a good while and has quite a history, but I expected better. I've always found Ekiga's software to be good, but the ekiga.net service to be spotty. Somebody recommended iptel.org to me for a SIP account, and it has been much more reliable that ekiga.net. However, I should clarify that I haven't used either service much in the past year, so things could have changed. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110519224316.gc15...@aurora.owens.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 03:59:39AM +, annathemerm...@hush.com wrote: Now, if only I could find a SIP client that works on Debian and OpenBSD (bonus points for Mac OS X Tiger/powerpc too) *and* is robust enough to deal with my poor internet connection, which sometimes has 50% packet loss, then it might not only work, it might work reliably. I tried Ekiga, but it doesn't even notify me when Sipgate no longer recognizes me as logged in, presumably because the connection dropped. Ekiga thinks I'm still logged in. Funny thing, I'm not sure, but I think a call which is already in progress continues to work even when Sipgate no longer thinks the softphone is logged in. I *think* the Sipgate server (or other SIP provider) is only there to establish the connection between the two callers. After that, communication goes from one caller to the other without going through the SIP provider's servers. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, that's why your call progress continues even when Sipgate no longer think's you're logged in. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110519234838.ga16...@aurora.owens.net
Re: So much for Skype.
From: Daniel Andersson dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com To: Leonardo Ruoso leonardo.ru...@gmail.com; debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:42 AM Subject: Re: So much for Skype. Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. /Daniel You may need to disable the Theora codec and use H261 because of this bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=611313 You can do it from the Edit --- Preferences menu That is the only way I could get Ekiga to successfully video call. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/58562.58395...@web111704.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Re: So much for Skype.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11 May 2011 15:42, Jamie Thompson debian-user@jamie- thompson.co.uk wrote: On 2011-05-11 4:23 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- Well, if you mean alternative ways to call Skype users without actually running Skype, there are rumors the the Chinese already succeeded in reverse engineering it. http://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/skype/chinese_clone_reverse_engineer s_skype_protocol.html If you mean alternative internet-based phones... well, there's already a long list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gma il.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. Moving on to google talk... Wish I could get more to do so... The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. Problem is, there are no Windows clients AFAIK with decent Jingle video support. Google, for some crazy reason, decided to put resources into making a plugin for GMail rather than adding it to their GTalk client software. Pidgin doesn't have video on Windows, and I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. In an ideal world, I'd like to see ubiquitous Jingle support, and properly maintained XMPP transports for each proprietary network, with Jingle support added to those if possible. A ubiquitous free solution for NAT traversal would be nice too, so you get the same just works experience that Skype offers. - Jamie I prefer SIP precisely because it's intercompatible with what (nearly) everyone uses. The standard isn't Skype. The standard is PTSN. It has been for a long time, and it probably will be for a long time to come. If I'm tight on money, and I can only afford phone or internet, but not both, I'm going to pick phone. Why? Aside from usually being cheaper, it's easier to live without home internet than without home phone (or cell phone, but home phone is usually cheaper and more reliable). More people expect to be able to contact me that way. A lot of my friends don't have home computers or home internet, and very few lack a phone of some sort, plus PTSN is the standard real-time distance communications method. For occasional internet to contact people who absolutely insist on using e-mail instead, I can go to the library. Now, I could try to use an internet phone, but then (with some exceptions) you have to leave your computer on all the time you want to be reachable, miss calls when you have it off, the phone doesn't work during power outages (which can be a big thing), runs up the electric bill -- and that's all assuming the connection between your client and the provider is stable even when your computer is up and running, which it often isn't. (Oh, and I might be able to get a few free hours of dial-up every month, enough to check e-mail regularly, although a lot of the free dial-up programs are Windows-only, unfortunately.) So, given the choice between the two, I, and most people, would pick phone. And that's what I normally do, but as these aren't normal times, and I couldn't actually afford either, were it not for the fact that I'm getting internet for free right now (well, using someone else's, with permission of course). But most people still use phone. With Skype, I would have to pay for Skype-In and Skype-Out to interact with them, which defeats the point of not having to pay for phone service. Two choices (that I know of) left: Google Voice and SIP. Google Voice gives me a free number, and free calls out to the U.S. and Canada, which is great. The minority of people who do not use PTSN, for whatever reason, can call directly via Google Talk. And look! GtalktoVOIP, which basically makes Google Voice compatible with most VOIP systems besides Skype, which is apparently to proprietary to be easily supported. Two problems with Google Voice, one minor and one major. Firstly, to make and receive calls over the internet, I have to have Gmail open, in full JavaScript mode, which is a pain on this old computer. Secondly, it's x86/amd64 only, which means it's not just a pain, it's impossible, since this computer is a powerpc. (And don't get me started on emulators.) Tried pidgin: it
Re: So much for Skype.
Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. /Daniel On 05/15/2011 02:13 PM, Leonardo Ruoso wrote: 2011/5/15 Daniel Andersson dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com mailto:dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com Did you use Google Talk video in Pidgin Andrei? Is there any other software that is included in a Debian repository, supports video chat, and is also easy to install on Windows? Ekiga? Thanks Daniel On 05/14/2011 12:16 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org mailto:debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org mailto:listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcfb0f4.5080...@daniel-gr-andersson.com -- Leonardo Ruoso - Jornalista/Desenvolvedor Assessoria de Imprensa. Consultoria de Marketing. Desenvolvimento e Integração de Software. Comunicação Social/Jornalismo - UFC/2006. Telecomunicações - ETFCE/1998. Foos, Perl, Debian Gnu/Linux, Agile, UML, DBA e OOP. Coaching/NLP. Inglês e Francês. http://leonardo.ruoso.com http://leonardo.ruoso.com/ - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lruoso -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dd218f0.9080...@daniel-gr-andersson.com
Re: So much for Skype.
I am using twinkle and got my account at http://serweg.iptel.org/user/ and this works well for me. Skype works with the webcam and this is not a feature of twinkle. So perhaps this will be a way: VLC may used in linux and also on windows. As vlc also is able to stream to other ip it should anywhere also be able to send the camera-stream between two sip-adresses!? Anyone knows an answer or may test this? Klaus Am Dienstag, den 17.05.2011, 08:42 +0200 schrieb Daniel Andersson: Trying Ekiga now and I can't get chat to work at all. I was not impressed I'm sorry to say. But I guess Ekiga's strength is in calls not messaging. Will maybe try that later on. /Daniel On 05/15/2011 02:13 PM, Leonardo Ruoso wrote: 2011/5/15 Daniel Andersson dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com mailto:dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com Did you use Google Talk video in Pidgin Andrei? Is there any other software that is included in a Debian repository, supports video chat, and is also easy to install on Windows? Ekiga? Thanks Daniel On 05/14/2011 12:16 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org mailto:debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org mailto:listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcfb0f4.5080...@daniel-gr-andersson.com -- Leonardo Ruoso - Jornalista/Desenvolvedor Assessoria de Imprensa. Consultoria de Marketing. Desenvolvimento e Integração de Software. Comunicação Social/Jornalismo - UFC/2006. Telecomunicações - ETFCE/1998. Foos, Perl, Debian Gnu/Linux, Agile, UML, DBA e OOP. Coaching/NLP. Inglês e Francês. http://leonardo.ruoso.com http://leonardo.ruoso.com/ - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lruoso -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1305616765.7131.8.camel@LINUXWOLFIBMLMY3773.LINUXWOLF
Re: So much for Skype.
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( I did get a crash too. I updated both machines with the same version of google chat and it worked nicely then... -- Mathieu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi=jDrocYp8yoJqFqsW+FryGttG6=w...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Ma, 17 mai 11, 10:51:53, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: I did get a crash too. I updated both machines with the same version of google chat and it worked nicely then... Which kinda' confirms there is a bug, even if there is a workaround. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for Skype.
Did you use Google Talk video in Pidgin Andrei? Is there any other software that is included in a Debian repository, supports video chat, and is also easy to install on Windows? Thanks Daniel On 05/14/2011 12:16 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcfb0f4.5080...@daniel-gr-andersson.com
Re: So much for Skype.
2011/5/15 Daniel Andersson dan...@daniel-gr-andersson.com Did you use Google Talk video in Pidgin Andrei? Is there any other software that is included in a Debian repository, supports video chat, and is also easy to install on Windows? Ekiga? Thanks Daniel On 05/14/2011 12:16 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcfb0f4.5080...@daniel-gr-andersson.com -- Leonardo Ruoso - Jornalista/Desenvolvedor Assessoria de Imprensa. Consultoria de Marketing. Desenvolvimento e Integração de Software. Comunicação Social/Jornalismo - UFC/2006. Telecomunicações - ETFCE/1998. Foos, Perl, Debian Gnu/Linux, Agile, UML, DBA e OOP. Coaching/NLP. Inglês e Francês. http://leonardo.ruoso.com - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lruoso
Re: So much for Skype.
[top-posting fixed] On Du, 15 mai 11, 12:54:44, Daniel Andersson wrote: Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Did you use Google Talk video in Pidgin Andrei? I tried, but as I wrote above, it crashed the moment I tried to call my mom. I didn't have the time and mood to try even some basic debugging so we just used skype instead. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for Skype.
On Mi, 11 mai 11, 17:23:48, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Moving on to google talk... Last time I tried to video call my mom (running pidgin on squeeze) my pidgin crashed. That was a few weeks ago :( Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for Skype.
peasth...@shaw.ca wrote: A POTS gateway is available from any of several companies. The cheapest dial-out for my calling pattern is smslisto.com. Seems pretty good for US and Western Europe (including UK). I haven't compared rates for other countries, but as soon as you start searching around you'll find a fair chunk of discussion and a number of helpful comparison sites. Very little customer service but pretty reliable (backed by Finarea, a large Swiss telecoms company). In my case I also use sipgate.co.uk for providing a UK number for dial-in, and some dial-out. Excellent customer service but the rates are not as good. (Customer Service costs real money, so that's clearly a trade-off.) [No relationship to either company other than as satisfied customer] Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8jks98x5vu@news.roaima.co.uk
Re: So much for Skype.
On 2011-05-11 5:05 PM, Γαβριήλ Τασιόπουλος wrote: The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. I use a mac and I'd like to think I'm a technical user. Isolating Linux users from the rest of the computer users as more technical and specialized is one of the reasons clients for mainstream services are not developed for linux. Perhaps, but the fact is I installed Debian on my parents PC when their old XP install died (with install discs and keys nowhere to be found), showed them how to use it, and what happened? My old man went out and bought a laptop so he could use XP again. I failed with him. My mother is fine with Linux though. You can't deny that when it comes to home users, the majority of Linux users are technical users, and the majority of Windows and Mac users are not. There are always exceptions; some people's relatives like and can deal with Linux (great!), and likewise, some techies like Macs, or Windows. But the majority of Mac and Windows users are plain old peck-typing email, web, and basic document editing users. I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. I've been using Zoiper to setup remote Computer Based call centers over openvpn and it seems to work perfectly. I personally use Sipgate for VoIP with a couple of technical friends using my Nokia mobile phones as clients (because, as I say, I can find no decent clients for Windows), but the point stands - unless I have other users also using a protocol, it's not an option - hence my love of the transport system XMPP employs. - Jamie -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcbe8df.90...@jamie-thompson.co.uk
Re: So much for Skype.
Jamie Thompson wrote: You can't deny that when it comes to home users, the majority of Linux users are technical users, and the majority of Windows and Mac users are not. There are always exceptions; some people's relatives like and can deal with Linux (great!), and likewise, some techies like Macs, or Windows. But the majority of Mac and Windows users are plain old peck-typing email, web, and basic document editing users. Not completely sure I agree with you - particularly when you consider the business world. Lots of companies mandate (and provide) Windows machines - to techies and non-techies alike. Universities pretty much require that students run either Windows or Macs. A LOT of technical users, in the business and academic worlds, like Macs (such as myself): - access to MS Word and Powerpoint (pretty much a requirement in many communities) - all the power of Unix (BSD/mach kernal) underneath - for those of us who need to run servers, develop code, etc. - nice hardware and support (can't beat AppleCare) - a lot of scientific visualization software And then there are all the creative folks - Macs seem to be the platform of choice for photo, audio, and video editing (which get fairly technical). Mac laptop, plus Linux servers is a pretty powerful and common combination (again, that's what I run). -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. Infnord practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcbee8d.9000...@meetinghouse.net
Re: So much for Skype.
In regards to the Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux/BSD Holy War, ...Not really on topic, but I got a chance to upgrade my Back|Track 4R2 laptops to version 5 released a couple days ago. Very Exciting, I tell you that's some Hot GNU on Linux Action there! I run Back|Track on my laptops for War Driving, Penetration, Study, Security Auditing. I run Debian Testing on my home 3TB file server... Linux really slathers on the PwnSauce! TeddyB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1385828017-1305213587-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-19061886...@bda510.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
Re: So much for Skype.
Aaron Toponce said: Thanks for hijacking the thread. Next time, fork it instead, and change the subject line. Thanks, Awww, I'm just being playful, and the thread has been going in the direction of who uses what os for what; I don't think it was a hijack. But whatever, sorry for interrupting this all important topic... People being aggressive the past few days. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/190857944-1305213974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-18055347...@bda510.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
Re: So much for Skype.
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.comwrote: 1/2 of their customer base? Are you implying that of all the subscribers to Skype, 1/2 of them are on GNU/Linux? Even knowing that the GNU/Linux desktop market share is less than 2% of the total worldwide? That's a bold statement to make. Have something to back that up? I would imagine instead that the GNU/Linux users of Skype is less than 2% of the total, as would be on par with the desktop market. I did not in fact mean that half of skype users are Linux. What I meant was that they probably did not want to alienate some percentage of their user base out of the gate. No, I know better than to think that half the userbase is running Linux... --b
Re: So much for Skype.
Aaron Toponce wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:17:17PM -0400, Brad Alexander wrote: Their Mac support used to include MS office, back in the mid 90s. I know IT people from that era that said the Mac version of Office was so buggy, thanks to their putting the Intel debugging symbols into the Mac version, that entire IT departments switched from Mac to PC running Windows. Microsoft continues to ship Mac versions of Microsoft Office, and from my limited experience, I find it behaves better on Mac than on Windows, and there are features in the Mac version that don't exist in the Windows version. So, I don't know what you're driving at. Microsoft is continuing to support Office on Mac OS X, a platform they certainly don't need to support, with barely 12% of the desktop market share. FYI: My experience is a lot more than limited - MS Office works just fine on Macs, it has for years. The major think lacking is support for macros, which is just as well from a security standpoint, and I understand that the latest release does support them (haven't upgraded yet). Re. Skype: A major reason for supporting Linux (and Mac) users is that any communications program is only useful if you can reach the people you want to talk to. Chopping off significant numbers of users is not only an inconvenience to them, but to anyone who wants to reach them. That's part of the reason that we all pay a tax on our phone bills to subsidize rural telephone users - there's a benefit to having them on the network. For that matter, I expect at least some of the folks here are old enough to remember the days when we had dozens of different email services, which didn't talk to each other - once CompuServe started supporting SMTP email (commercial customers wanted to talk to their colleagues on the ARPANET), everyone else followed suit very quickly. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. Infnord practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcc0480.7050...@meetinghouse.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58:21AM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. MSFT has stated publicly that they will support other platforms going forward. They'll be able to sell ads so it wouldn't be in their interest to do so. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110513041332.GB2192@crunchbang
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gmail.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktinh_ftgrqetk+b+2p2omyeu9zq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gmail.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. Moving on to google talk... -- Mathieu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktim3n3+pqumgpdrgvnbcbll1dzd...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 2011-05-11 4:23 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gmail.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. Moving on to google talk... Wish I could get more to do so... The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. Problem is, there are no Windows clients AFAIK with decent Jingle video support. Google, for some crazy reason, decided to put resources into making a plugin for GMail rather than adding it to their GTalk client software. Pidgin doesn't have video on Windows, and I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. In an ideal world, I'd like to see ubiquitous Jingle support, and properly maintained XMPP transports for each proprietary network, with Jingle support added to those if possible. A ubiquitous free solution for NAT traversal would be nice too, so you get the same just works experience that Skype offers. - Jamie -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dcaae4e.6040...@jamie-thompson.co.uk
Re: So much for Skype.
The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. I use a mac and I'd like to think I'm a technical user. Isolating Linux users from the rest of the computer users as more technical and specialized is one of the reasons clients for mainstream services are not developed for linux. I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. I've been using Zoiper to setup remote Computer Based call centers over openvpn and it seems to work perfectly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktikix0+98vcxgg-_mkyqpf7c--2...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. A decision to drop or not the Linux version of Skype might depend on how many Linux users pay for Skype-in and Skype-out. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktikxwrq0xypcceyvd-cyvdp4cwd...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
2011/5/11 Jamie Thompson debian-u...@jamie-thompson.co.uk On 2011-05-11 4:23 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. Re-ignite? I can't agree with you. What about Google Talk and Empathy? better download that latest linux version now. I think it's still the same beta... Moving on to google talk... Most buddies around me are doing the move since last year... The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. It's not a problem at all. Problem is, there are no Windows clients AFAIK with decent Jingle video support. Google, for some crazy reason, decided to put resources into Probably because most gtalk users are webmail users? -- Leonardo Ruoso - Jornalista/Desenvolvedor Assessoria de Imprensa. Consultoria de Marketing. Desenvolvimento e Integração de Software. Comunicação Social/Jornalismo - UFC/2006. Telecomunicações - ETFCE/1998. Foos, Perl, Debian Gnu/Linux, Agile, UML, DBA e OOP. Coaching/NLP. Inglês e Francês. http://leonardo.ruoso.com - http://www.linkedin.com/in/lruoso
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wednesday 11 May, 2011 08:59:24 Aaron Toponce wrote: First, you're speculating. You have nothing to base your guess on. Microsoft may not have been the most Linux-friendly company in the world, but that doesn't mean that they are going to cut the GNU/Linux client of Skype. Second, http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/05/ballmer-skype-announcement/. Quote: Third, Skype is a proprietary client that uses a proprietary protocol. If you're that concerned about it, then you'll run it on a supported platform, even if it means the platform itself is proprietary, such as Microsoft Windows. LOL, what makes you think that wagging your finger at someone, teaches them anything, or encourages respect for you? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201105110937.49828.cac...@quantum-sci.com
Re: So much for Skype.
Hi, perhaps you can take a look at iptel.org ? best regards and a nice day klaus Am Mittwoch, den 11.05.2011, 16:42 +0100 schrieb Jamie Thompson: On 2011-05-11 4:23 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gmail.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. Moving on to google talk... Wish I could get more to do so... The problem with social software is that you need to support the platforms non-technical users are using. That inevitably means Windows and Macs. Problem is, there are no Windows clients AFAIK with decent Jingle video support. Google, for some crazy reason, decided to put resources into making a plugin for GMail rather than adding it to their GTalk client software. Pidgin doesn't have video on Windows, and I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. In an ideal world, I'd like to see ubiquitous Jingle support, and properly maintained XMPP transports for each proprietary network, with Jingle support added to those if possible. A ubiquitous free solution for NAT traversal would be nice too, so you get the same just works experience that Skype offers. - Jamie -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1305132174.6143.1.camel@LINUXWOLFIBMLMY3773.LINUXWOLF
Re: So much for Skype.
First, you're speculating. You have nothing to base your guess on. Microsoft may not have been the most Linux-friendly company in the world, but that doesn't mean that they are going to cut the GNU/Linux client of Skype. Second, http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/05/ballmer-skype-announcement/. Quote: Third, Skype is a proprietary client that uses a proprietary protocol. If you're that concerned about it, then you'll run it on a supported platform, even if it means the platform itself is proprietary, such as Microsoft Windows. LOL, what makes you think that wagging your finger at someone, teaches them anything, or encourages respect for you? I'm failing to see the finger wagging. right, me neither. 4th, eBay one of the sellers, has a vested interest in multiplatform use. A deal to continue that would not be suprising. 5th, why is a closed platform, getting, uhm, maybe closer, even an issue on debian? Or are we talking alternatives? In that case, carry on! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktike5bhvwvf8ernoij8x3ek4spa...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wednesday 11 May, 2011 09:44:07 Aaron Toponce wrote: I'm failing to see the finger wagging. What an awful work environment you must have, to have become so enured to such a negative attitude that you don't notice. And not only that, but to try and inflict it on others. I am not going to bicker with you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201105111019.15649.cac...@quantum-equities.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed 11 May 2011 at 10:58:21 -0400, Curt Howland wrote: This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. There are no existing alternatives to Skype to develop. So nothing to re-ignite, There is re-invention, of course, but who will invest in the infrastructure to implement it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110511190243.GA3023@desktop
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. iirc, microsoft has more investment in more linux products than anyone else. they also have (or had?) quite a large investment in apple to stop them from going under in early 2000. i don't know what they plan to do with skype. maybe roll it into netmeeting (does that still exist?) or msn messenger. i think the only thing sure here is that it'll be installed by default on all windows phones now - something i'm sure the carriers aren't going to like (but will probably take care of with their bandwidth caps). as far as igniting anything, i don't know that much needs it. most people i know that use voip use cisco, the rest use asterisk. now, don't get me wrong about asterisk, there's as much comercial in that product as there is free - t1 cards, compression hardware / software, front ends, etc. if we're talking straight consumer video meeting software, this hasn't really taken off yet. sure, most people have skype installed on their computers. but, when i want to call someone, i still pick up my phone and use a ten year old 2g network to talk to people. will this get big? i have no doubt - probably in less than five years. will open source software work with it? eventually. will open source lead the way in making it so that when i want to contact with someone, i am mainly using programs that i can read the source code to? that's highly doubtful. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktikaowj6f-u-3yjapo8_9y8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On 12 May 2011 05:18, shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. iirc, microsoft has more investment in more linux products than anyone else. they also have (or had?) quite a large investment in apple to stop them from going under in early 2000. i don't know what they plan to do with skype. maybe roll it into netmeeting (does that still exist?) or msn messenger. Probably to be integrated into their 'Ling' function. Aiming at executive market functionality. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion.
Re: So much for Skype.
On 12 May 2011 06:11, Heddle Weaver weaver2wo...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 May 2011 05:18, shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. iirc, microsoft has more investment in more linux products than anyone else. they also have (or had?) quite a large investment in apple to stop them from going under in early 2000. i don't know what they plan to do with skype. maybe roll it into netmeeting (does that still exist?) or msn messenger. Probably to be integrated into their 'Ling' function. Aiming at executive market functionality. Sorry. That's Linc'. http://www.microsoft.com/communicationsserver/en/au/default.aspx Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion.
Re: So much for Skype.
Jamie Thompson debian-u...@jamie-thompson.co.uk wrote: I've not found a decent SIP client yet, let alone a normal user with a SIP account to call them with. I find my (VoIP) telephone works really well as a SIP client. My favourite software SIP client is twinkle. Others will no doubt chip in with other suggestions. Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/l27r98xq6c@news.roaima.co.uk
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 04:42:06PM +0100, Jamie Thompson wrote: In an ideal world, I'd like to see ubiquitous Jingle support, and properly maintained XMPP transports for each proprietary network, with Jingle support added to those if possible. A ubiquitous free solution for NAT traversal would be nice too, so you get the same just works experience that Skype offers. iptel.org offers free SIP accounts and they employ some kind of server side NAT traversal which means you don't have to use STUN. I've used their service with Ekiga software (mostly from hotels while I'm on the road) and it does work. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110511230448.ga11...@aurora.owens.net
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 10:58 -0400, Curt Howland wrote: I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. RMS never liked Skype: Skype is a special exception: it is worse than most nonfree software, because using Skype to talk with someone else means that other person must use Skype too. Even supposing my host has Skype already installed on his computer, my using it briefly would not be harmless — it would constitute encouraging my interlocutor to have and use Skype. My conclusion is: never use Skype even for a moment. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1305155470.10579.26.ca...@peanut.datentraeger.li
Re: So much for Skype.
- Original Message - From: Mathieu Malaterre mathieu.malate...@gmail.com To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Cc: debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:23 AM Subject: Re: So much for Skype. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Curt Howland howl...@priss.com wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. Curt- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTi==+gKf0ju2rn60umie5+Uvi2m=y...@mail.gmail.com better download that latest linux version now. annoying, but it does work. Moving on to google talk... -- Mathieu Have you been able to get google talk to work? http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6t=57985hilit=ekiga Also when trying to video chat using ekiga with someone with windows ekiga apparently there is a non-free codec for H263 needed. Is there a way to configure the windows version of Ekiga to use the libre codec that the debian version uses? I figured this was a good place to ask this since we are talking about skype and video chat alternatives. I am looking for a solution, preferably using libre software to video chat with all my friends still using proprietary OS's (Mac and Doze). -Steven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/423274.77378...@web111710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Re: So much for Skype.
People need to realise that not everyone uses linux because it's open-source. Some use it because it's cheap, reliable, easy to use and works better than windows on old machines. This kind of users, as small as it may be for the time being, are still potential clients for skype's paid services. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktinf0e10sex1ake_lovbkg4ux84...@mail.gmail.com
Re: So much for Skype.
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Aaron Toponce aaron.topo...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:58:21AM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: So Skype has been bought by Microsoft. I expect the Linux version of Skype to be abolished in short order. Oh well, thus the fate of proprietary software. I'm sure St. Ignucious is shaking his head with the inevitability of it all. This aught to re-ignite the effort to develop the alternatives. And if it doesn't, that will say more than any success could. First, you're speculating. You have nothing to base your guess on. Microsoft may not have been the most Linux-friendly company in the world, but that doesn't mean that they are going to cut the GNU/Linux client of Skype. I offer, as a case in point, Nokia. It just seems too coincidental that they hire a former MS exec in the person of Steven Elop, and within 3 months decide to re-close-source Symbian, scale back their successful Linux smart phone line, scale back their Linux offerings to RD only...Which includes dropping out of their alliance with Intel on Meego. Second, http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/05/ballmer-skype-announcement/ . Quote: Both executives sought to reassure Skype customers who might be worried about Microsoft’s ability and willingness to support the multiplatform software, which is available for Windows, OS X and Linux PCs; Android, BlackBerry and iOS smartphones; and even televisions. “We’re one of the few companies that has actually has a track record of doing this,” said Ballmer, pointing to the company’s Mac support over the years. “Fundamental to the value proposition of communications is being able to reach everybody, whether they happen to be on your devices or not.” Their Mac support used to include MS office, back in the mid 90s. I know IT people from that era that said the Mac version of Office was so buggy, thanks to their putting the Intel debugging symbols into the Mac version, that entire IT departments switched from Mac to PC running Windows. So forgive me if I don't trust Ballmer's altruism... “The commitment from Microsoft to support multiplatform clients is absolutely critical,” Bates said, indicating that Skype got assurances from Microsoft that it would continue to support all of Skype’s platforms. I can believe this in the short term. Why lose half of your customer base out of the gate? --b
