Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 04:27:10AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was true, dealt with in IceTea according to this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/ThomasFitzsimmons Thank you. This was extremely helpful! -- Oh, look: rocks! -- Doctor Who, Destiny of the Daleks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
-- Original message -- From: Todd A. Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 03:09:23AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote: For Java, icedtea-gcjwebplugin is in main. (Sun Java is not packaged but this free one is pretty good) The last time I checked, gcjwebplugin kept carping about being insecure and sandboxing being incomplete. Is this really any more secure than the gcjwebplugin itself? I don't really mind running semi-functional software, but I *do* mind running insecure software. This was true, dealt with in IceTea according to this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/ThomasFitzsimmons Quote: What can end-users expect to experience? The big problem with deploying gcjwebplugin in the past has been GNU Classpath's lack of a security framework. The OpenJDK class library, on the other hand, has a complete robust security framework capable of safely running untrusted applets. Just by virtue of gcjwebplugin using IcedTea's appletviewer, instead of GNU Classpath's, it now supports safely running untrusted applets, and so we've enabled it by default for Fedora 8. The result is that most applets will run perfectly out-of-the-box, on a default Fedora 8 install on x86 *or x86_64*. : End Quote So from the standpoint of running applets on your computer, the security seems to be there. As for connecting to a bank or other place that uses a signed applet that needs to be authenticated or requires a secure connection, there still seems to be stuff missing. But that just means it will fail, it's not something that will compromise your security. Later, Seeker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
Hi, On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 07:05:19AM +1000, Alex Samad wrote: If I'm hearing folks correctly, is 32-bit flash running out of the box on 64-bit lenny now? If it's not running out of the box, could someone please post a link to a HOWTO? Thanks! apt-get install nspluginwrapper apt-get install flashplayer-mozilla (from the debian multimedia repo) that should be it :) It may work but we now have good packages in official Debian site. For Java, icedtea-gcjwebplugin is in main. (Sun Java is not packaged but this free one is pretty good) For Flash, swfdec-mozilla and mozilla-plugin-gnash are in main while flashplugin-nonfree is contrib. This flashplugin-nonfree load 32bit version using nspluginwrapper. For most video's, mozilla-plugin-gnash is working for me but google street view only works with nonfree flash player. http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch08.en.html#webbrowsersinx Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 03:09:23AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote: For Java, icedtea-gcjwebplugin is in main. (Sun Java is not packaged but this free one is pretty good) The last time I checked, gcjwebplugin kept carping about being insecure and sandboxing being incomplete. Is this really any more secure than the gcjwebplugin itself? I don't really mind running semi-functional software, but I *do* mind running insecure software. -- Oh, look: rocks! -- Doctor Who, Destiny of the Daleks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
kj [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. I know what you mean. I recently bumped my machine up to 12 GB and it's already full. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. I'm using etch. I did find one HOWTO on 64-bit Debian that had the quick way and the slow way. The quick way failed to handle flash. Until the slow way becomes a quick way, it's a non-starter. Fortunately, I'd only need flash if I were goofing off, and everything else we use is 64-bit, so I get along fine. I'm using the sun-java6-jdk package from non-free and it works fine with the Java apps that I use: Eclipse, Squirrel, iReport, MATLAB, etc. Not to mention compile and run the Kepler apps we're developing at NASA. (Fortunately, these are all written in Java. :-) If I'm hearing folks correctly, is 32-bit flash running out of the box on 64-bit lenny now? If it's not running out of the box, could someone please post a link to a HOWTO? Thanks! -- Bill Wohler [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.newt.com/wohler/ GnuPG ID:610BD9AD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:52:36PM -0700, Bill Wohler wrote: kj [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] If I'm hearing folks correctly, is 32-bit flash running out of the box on 64-bit lenny now? If it's not running out of the box, could someone please post a link to a HOWTO? Thanks! apt-get install nspluginwrapper apt-get install flashplayer-mozilla (from the debian multimedia repo) that should be it :) -- Bill Wohler [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.newt.com/wohler/ GnuPG ID:610BD9AD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were. It was us versus them, and it was clear who them was. Today we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there. - George W. Bush 01/21/2000 Iowa Western Community College signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: State of 64bit desktop
This should work for 64-bit. http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/20/how-to-install-adobe-flash-player-for-amd64-64-bit-on-debian-etch/ - Jos Collin On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 2:35 AM, Alex Samad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:52:36PM -0700, Bill Wohler wrote: kj [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] If I'm hearing folks correctly, is 32-bit flash running out of the box on 64-bit lenny now? If it's not running out of the box, could someone please post a link to a HOWTO? Thanks! apt-get install nspluginwrapper apt-get install flashplayer-mozilla (from the debian multimedia repo) that should be it :) -- Bill Wohler [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.newt.com/wohler/ GnuPG ID:610BD9AD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were. It was us versus them, and it was clear who them was. Today we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there. - George W. Bush 01/21/2000 Iowa Western Community College -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkip5A8ACgkQkZz88chpJ2O3tQCdFlAPJlZGNABCS80tJSnpheRI w48An1oW/ppBQp5ouhc8zQq9aiZNib5Q =A6P0 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: State of 64bit desktop
This should work for 64-bit. http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/20/how-to-install-adobe-flash-player-for-amd64-64-bit-on-debian-etch/ - Jos Collin On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 2:35 AM, Alex Samad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:52:36PM -0700, Bill Wohler wrote: kj [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] If I'm hearing folks correctly, is 32-bit flash running out of the box on 64-bit lenny now? If it's not running out of the box, could someone please post a link to a HOWTO? Thanks! apt-get install nspluginwrapper apt-get install flashplayer-mozilla (from the debian multimedia repo) that should be it :) -- Bill Wohler [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.newt.com/wohler/ GnuPG ID:610BD9AD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were. It was us versus them, and it was clear who them was. Today we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there. - George W. Bush 01/21/2000 Iowa Western Community College -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkip5A8ACgkQkZz88chpJ2O3tQCdFlAPJlZGNABCS80tJSnpheRI w48An1oW/ppBQp5ouhc8zQq9aiZNib5Q =A6P0 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 03:47:41PM +0100, kj wrote: Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. I have 64-bit Debian on 2 PC's and Ubuntu-64-bit on a laptop. With the ia32-libaries installed works well except on one Debian PC where I have problems with nspluginwrapper. The flash-plugin sometimes works and then stops working. I became a little frustrated and then started to use a 32-bit system installed in VirtualBox so when I need a flashplugin on that system I use the vbox-32-bit version. On all my 64-bit systems I can use Googleearth and Skype (although the sound is sometime problematic). I did not have any java-related problems with the browsers on the 64-bit systems. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Luke 18:1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 15:47 +0100, kj wrote: Hi guys, At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. Thanks --kj How much memory do you have? 32-bit Linux support up to 64 GB of memory and 32 processors. -- Regards, Aniruddha -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:25:26AM +0200, Aniruddha wrote: How much memory do you have? 32-bit Linux support up to 64 GB of memory and 32 processors. Only if you use a PAE-enabled kernel. In my experience it is better to use 64-bit when you have memory 4G. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Luke 18:1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
Thanks for all the replies. With regards to the chroot, I tried this a few years ago when the chroot idea just came about. It was kinda messy then but don't ask me the details. It looks like things are more viable now, I'll give it a go. Just need to order another drive first. Aniruddha wrote: How much memory do you have? 32-bit Linux support up to 64 GB of memory and 32 processors. 4GB currently but I'm looking to add 2 or so. Yes, PAE allows you to address more than 4GB, but (as far as I know) you still have a 4GB per process limit, theoretically. In practice things don't always work so well and MySQL in particular doesn't always appreciate the presence of PAE. --kj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
s. keeling [EMAIL PROTECTED]: kj [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi guys, Not to mention other people? :-| At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java I've had both Lenny and Sidux installed on my Sparc U30 64 bit. I can't guarantee that that shite runs well on it, but stock Debian Just to be clear, I was alluding to flash and java there. appears to run fine. Now, I'm fiddling with Splack (Slackware for Sparc), which is interesting. It's very happy with NetBSD. fwiw. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: State of 64bit desktop
From: kj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: State of 64bit desktop Hi guys, At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. Thanks --kj Fraid that this might be a mileage may vary type of question... Here is my 2 cents though. I had horrible problems with Debian Etch and 64bit. 64bit Debian Lenny has been /brilliant/ but I have only worked with server class testing/development; I have not had a chance to test Lenny on a Desktop 64bit system. One guy I know does use a 64bit Desktop with Java/flash but that is with Ubuntu Hardy so I don't know how great the difference will be for you. My personal suggestion, if you can do it, would be to give it a shot and then report what you find back to the Debian Dev team before Lenny goes stable. It would probably help them out quite a bit and help generate more interest in the 64bit world. Of course not everyone has the time/ability to do that* and if you are one of those people then my suggestion would be to wait till Lenny is released and ask again. At the very least, I should be able to respond**. Have fun! ~S~ *Unfortunately, I have to raise my hand here...for now at least. I keep hoping for some spare time. :-( **We have an upgrade path planned to move a bunch of production systems to 64bit once Lenny goes stable. As we do that I have a development desktop system that is 64bit capable (currently running 32bit Debian) that I can at least tell you how it works out for me. Just give me a couple weeks for migration. :-D -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Monday 11 August 2008 17:47, kj wrote: Hi guys, At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. No problem with flashplugin-nonfree here in amd64 etch except flash except nspluginwrapper takes a whole lot more cpu than I would like it to. Thanks --kj -- Shachar Or | שחר אור http://ox.freeallweb.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. I switched my dual-core Lenny desktop to an amd64 kernel last week without any issue. I have used the non-free flash and java browser plugins with Iceweasel. I haven't noticed any issues with those programs, but I have not used them heavily. I have definitely noticed faster system performance overall. -Elijah -- http://elijahr.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of 64bit desktop
kj: What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? Not really. Flash works fine here (on a sid system using nspluginwrapper) most of the time, but sometimes flash objects become blank and I have to restart Iceweasel. I don't use Java at all (at least not in the browser. Otherwise, everything works really great. Debian on AMD64 is of the same quality as on i386. Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. What exactly was so bad? I played around with schroot (I don't have an urgent need for chroots) and it looks really fine. If you write a few tiny shell scripts to automate the most common tasks (launch browser from chroot etc.), you can probably forget that you are forced to use a chroot at all. J. -- I am not scared of death but terrified of people in Tommy Hilfiger sweatshirts. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: State of 64bit desktop
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 03:47:41PM +0100, kj wrote: Hi guys, At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. best place to ask is the amd64 mailing list What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java (unfortunately some of the tools I need to use at work are written in these abominable languages). Does anyone do heavy java and flash usage under 64bit Debian (I'm running Lenny)? One tool in particular I'm forced to use is the Raritan KVM interface. It's horrible. flash there is 2 options the non-free 64B plugin, I had not success with that, with the nwrapper basically a 64 - 32 thunker for the non-free flash program I haven't had any problems at all Java this is going to be your biggest problem, there is no Sun 64B java plugin, the nwrapper doesn't work for 32b java. There is gij and gcj and the new open java (can't remember its name), its from Redhat and has recently been certified by sun, that would be your best bet. Options for java, chroot you have ruled out (it worked seemlessly for me), install 32bit iceweasel (you can install all the 32bit apps on the 64b machine - you just need the right libraries). Another option install amd64, virtualbox and install 32b on virtualbox run the 64 b on vt and 32b on vt8 Alex Note I presume you mean java and not java script Is this move viable or should I rather invest in a second box (won't come for free). I don't want to mess around with 32bit chroots - did that before and I didn't like it one bit. Thanks --kj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I'm not the expert on how the Iraqi people think, because I live in America, where it's nice and safe and secure. - George W. Bush 09/23/2004 Washington, DC signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: State of 64bit desktop
kj [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi guys, Not to mention other people? :-| At work I'm starting to push the limits of my RAM with MySQL/InnoDB on my workstation (I do dev/testing on my workstation). I have 64bit hardware, capable of taking 8gb memory. What I'm worried about is the tools I use. In particular, I need a browser with all the usual suspects working properly: flash and java I've had both Lenny and Sidux installed on my Sparc U30 64 bit. I can't guarantee that that shite runs well on it, but stock Debian appears to run fine. Now, I'm fiddling with Splack (Slackware for Sparc), which is interesting. It's very happy with NetBSD. fwiw. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
