Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:50:37 +0200 Sven Joachim svenj...@gmx.de wrote: On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote: That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional BIOS. Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is. O.K. Well, that's good to know. Regards, Weaver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110923173907.14d4c79a.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 23/09/11 15:15, Weaver wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:04:51 +1000 Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote: snipped empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal. Regards Alex Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. Untrue (see further down for why). Note that U/EFI has been around for more than 20 years - still hasn't delivered - yes it can obscure code from the user, which is a good reason not to use a traditional BIOS anyway - but it's definitely not the be-all-and-end-all. It fails to support a lot of firmware - don't expect that situation to change anytime soon. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. No - read on. :-) Here are a couple of articles that bear on the subject: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-windows-8-block-users-from-dual-booting-linux-microsoft-wont-say/10772 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572 Regards, Weaver. Those articles are not strictly true - your old 16-bit BIOS will happily handle those large hard drives - the limitation is not the BIOS - it's the partition table and the OS. Linux/BSD/MAC/late versions of Windoof will all handle GPT. Those articles just blindly published marketing stories by Brian Richardson, see one of his disingenuous posts down the bottom of this story:- http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1740439/uefi Given your choice of pseudonym you should no better than to fall for such marketing guff. :-) Cheers -- As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7c3eed.3080...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 23/09/11 15:50, Sven Joachim wrote: On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote: That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional BIOS. Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is. Sven I'm pretty sure the last version of Windoof (and the next) can boot GPT. Vistass can read it, but not boot. Dunno about the 64-bit version though - it might boot it. That's not a reason to move to Windoof. And U/EFI is a good reason to run Coreboot (why worry about OS security when untrustable code is running in BIOS/EFI?) Cheers -- As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7c4005.8010...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
* Alex: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would exclude' Linux It seems to me that this technology was pioneered on Android devices (which tend to lock out alternative operating systems, not just custom kernels). -- Florian Weimerfwei...@bfk.de BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstraße 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/82fwjnll89@mid.bfk.de
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 23/09/11 18:24, Florian Weimer wrote: * Alex: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would exclude' Linux It seems to me that this technology was pioneered on Android devices (which tend to lock out alternative operating systems, not just custom kernels). The U/EFI or the lockout? The U/EFI was pioneered on Itanium systems long before Androids were thought of. Cheers -- As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7c5dda.6070...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal? If it only affects OEM computers (those you buy with windows inside) we already have a very bad situation when it comes to linux, I mean, nothing new here. For instance, I cannot see an easy way to update my netbook's BIOS because the manufacturer (Compaq) only provides an .exe file that has to be run under windows. As I removed windows completely (I retained a full image of the original windows system but I simply don't want to re- install it) I cannot get updates for a basic piece of the hardware. I mean, these kind of computers OEMized which are linked to specific OS are a really crap, and this UEFI initiative could be just another annoying step for customers but still nothing new. We (we=linux users) also have problems with hard drivers that use a ombination of BIOS +software+drivers based encryption so finally the customer has to decide what to use because mixing that things with other OSes gives you more headaches than it solves. Anyway, the software big guys (like MS or IBM) at least in Europe are closely investigated by the European Comission for its monopolistic practices so I don't think they are going to make the same error again. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.23.11.10...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal? It's not that crazy from MS's perspective. Not only is it intended to make Windows more secure (at least from a sales perspective) but it may very well prevent me, for example, from installing Fedora on my netbook as I've done. It's not MS's first attempt. There was a hardware-based attempt a few years ago with Trusted Computing and the TPM chip. IIRC the GNU people re-baptized it Treacherous Computing! :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=szisgp0r61kg-944ukoxss_gwxbhucoroyjftm6h9y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
We can all see where this is going... MS has OEM's lockout UEFI, some new team will pop up and start the PC jailbreak/unlock scene, MS will cry that its illegal, court wont even understand wtf is going on, etc, etc ... :) On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal? It's not that crazy from MS's perspective. Not only is it intended to make Windows more secure (at least from a sales perspective) but it may very well prevent me, for example, from installing Fedora on my netbook as I've done. It's not MS's first attempt. There was a hardware-based attempt a few years ago with Trusted Computing and the TPM chip. IIRC the GNU people re-baptized it Treacherous Computing! :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caodoszisgp0r61kg-944ukoxss_gwxbhucoroyjftm6h9y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:31 AM, chris tknch...@gmail.com wrote: We can all see where this is going... MS has OEM's lockout UEFI, some new team will pop up and start the PC jailbreak/unlock scene, MS will cry that its illegal, court wont even understand wtf is going on, etc, etc ... :) On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal? It's not that crazy from MS's perspective. Not only is it intended to make Windows more secure (at least from a sales perspective) but it may very well prevent me, for example, from installing Fedora on my netbook as I've done. It's not MS's first attempt. There was a hardware-based attempt a few years ago with Trusted Computing and the TPM chip. IIRC the GNU people re-baptized it Treacherous Computing! :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caodoszisgp0r61kg-944ukoxss_gwxbhucoroyjftm6h9y...@mail.gmail.com I have a new concern: I just tried to actually read the UEFI specs on their web site surprise,surprise...You have to give them personal info just to get to it. I now wonder if I have already purchased installed equipment that has this spec. enabled. I built a completely new system a few months ago. Is there any way to tell what has been enabled. It shows up as a regular AMI bios. I am currently able to boot 4 different OS on it, but what happens if I upgrade the bios?? I will be researching this further..
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:31 AM, chris tknch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal? It's not that crazy from MS's perspective. Not only is it intended to make Windows more secure (at least from a sales perspective) but it may very well prevent me, for example, from installing Fedora on my netbook as I've done. It's not MS's first attempt. There was a hardware-based attempt a few years ago with Trusted Computing and the TPM chip. IIRC the GNU people re-baptized it Treacherous Computing! :) We can all see where this is going... MS has OEM's lockout UEFI, some new team will pop up and start the PC jailbreak/unlock scene, MS will cry that its illegal, court wont even understand wtf is going on, etc, etc ... Dell and co will have to enable UEFI's secure boot by default in order to get MS marketing help/$ and stick Win8 logos on their boxes. The question that's going to have to be answered is whether users'll be able to turn off secure boot in order to install Linux/BSD/WinXP. And if users can't turn off UEFI's secure boot, antitrust authorities'll get involved. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=swgh4a+ohrppck-yglmxvjqwruoprcyr6mqzegeygz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
Am Freitag, 23. September 2011 schrieb Alex: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_excl usion_fears/ First I think that Linux already has too much market share for this to go through silently. Look at those articles, also at Heise. Second I did not yet get UEFI and/or GPT to work with Linux 3.0 on a brand new ThinkPad T520 with newest UEFI capable BIOS. Only MBR with BIOS does work currently. Not even GPT with BIOS boot. To me currently that whole UEFI stuff is just a pile of crap - cause BIOS vendors just test with Windows. Initial ThinkPad T520 didn´t even boot Linux from MBR with BIOS unless I marked one partition bootable which Linux does not require at all. Consider blog entries by Matthew Garrett including, but not limited to UEFI secure booting - part 1 and 2: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5850.html To me it seems that computer firmwares on the PC platform, namely BIOS, are one of the last largest portion of proprietary crap that Linux users can´t easily avoid unless Coreboot becomes more widespread. But even then there are upgradeability issues. But I also do not know an easy solution right now although I would like to flash a Linux kernel directly to the CMOS flash. The PC platform sucks so big time regarding partitioning schemes and firmwares that it is not even funny anymore. MBR is just beyond words while Amiga with Rigid Disk Block (RDB) has had something that was that much more advanced that one could think it has been imported from another universe. And then GPT rectifies lots of MBR problems at the price of way more complexity than what IMHO is needed. And EFI drives the complexity to a level that UEFI was invented which as far as I understand was an aim to simplify things again. I really pray for some sanity regarding: - computer firmwares - partitioning schemes - and a interoperable filesystem for hotplugable storage devices, cause FAT32 is a joke nowadays and ExFAT is not by any means free as far was I heard Somehow I hope that Linux becomes widespread enough to have hardware vendors build hardware specifically for it instead of breaking things horribly just to accomodate for limitations in Windows. Pile of s..., if you ask me. Thanks, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201109232047.49869.mar...@lichtvoll.de
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
Am Freitag, 23. September 2011 schrieb Alex: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_excl usion_fears/ One sidenote: AMD is into promoting Coreboot for AMD based boards. I dunno the current state and don´t have links at hand currently, but I was pleased to hear that. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201109232049.01845.mar...@lichtvoll.de
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
Hi Chris! Please avoid TUFO. Am Freitag, 23. September 2011 schrieb chris: On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Scott Ferguson Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. but does coreboot support uefi? Sometimes I think: Better not. ;) I twice tried half a day to have that brand new ThinkPad T520 with newest BIOS boot Linux with either UEFI and/or GPT. To no avail. And I do think that I am a Linux professional not giving up at first sight of problems. A co-worker tried as well with a FTS laptop. To no avail as well. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201109232052.30510.mar...@lichtvoll.de
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
Am Freitag, 23. September 2011 schrieb Weaver: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:04:51 +1000 Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote: [...] Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. No. GPT should be enough and AFAIK there is nothing that hinders a BIOS firmware from supporting GPT. MBR is limited to 2 TiB with 512 byte sectors AFAIK. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201109232053.48564.mar...@lichtvoll.de
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:49:01 +0200 Martin Steigerwald mar...@lichtvoll.de wrote: Am Freitag, 23. September 2011 schrieb Alex: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_excl usion_fears/ One sidenote: AMD is into promoting Coreboot for AMD based boards. I dunno the current state and don´t have links at hand currently, but I was pleased to hear that. The link for that is here: http://blogs.amd.com/work/2011/05/05/an-update-on-coreboot/ Regards, Weaver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110924073820.164cf4cb.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Alex avko...@hotmail.com wrote: Any comments on the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per article entitled Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux at http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2011/09/21/secure_boot_** firmware_linux_exclusion_**fears/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ Thanks Alex Seems simple enough to me; just hack the bios itself. send the Microsoft originated instruction set to the trash. Linux almost does that now anyway. Ive already seen something similar to this done with other equipment, such as Barns Nobel color nook systems that are rooted Which turns a waste of space into a useful tool. Another more interesting thing is can MS actually pull this off? If there is a chip maker stupid enough to get into this bed with MS then they deserve what they will get. I don't think any competent CEO will give over that much power to Bill Gates. Thenthere are the lawyers, WOW, what a field day they will have...LOL John
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
Thanks for the quick reply, John. It is a long time ago that I hacked any BIOS, and then it was only with tools made available by the manufacturer to boot the machine in the first place, that I have forgotten / no knowledge of how this may be achieved. In any case, I was always under the impression that BIOS resided in ROM (Read Only Memory) hardware, which required removing chips and re-buring them with ROM burner hardware. Maybe things have changed since I was last in that world, but to my knowledge the BIOS setting that we can tinker with, are stored in some sort of FLASH memory or similar, which is indeed writeable, and maintained by the on board battery. But, as I say, all this is from many years ago and maybe things have changed. But I would like to at least have some backup way out if 'the evil empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal. Regards Alex -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/blu0-smtp197d45e543e2b5a132033ceae...@phx.gbl
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote: Thanks for the quick reply, John. It is a long time ago that I hacked any BIOS, and then it was only with tools made available by the manufacturer to boot the machine in the first place, that I have forgotten / no knowledge of how this may be achieved. In any case, I was always under the impression that BIOS resided in ROM (Read Only Memory) hardware, which required removing chips and re-buring them with ROM burner hardware. Maybe things have changed since I was last in that world, but to my knowledge the BIOS setting that we can tinker with, are stored in some sort of FLASH memory or similar, which is indeed writeable, and maintained by the on board battery. But, as I say, all this is from many years ago and maybe things have changed. But I would like to at least have some backup way out if 'the evil empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal. Regards Alex Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. Cheers -- As if growing wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7bdb33.2070...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
but does coreboot support uefi? On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote: Thanks for the quick reply, John. It is a long time ago that I hacked any BIOS, and then it was only with tools made available by the manufacturer to boot the machine in the first place, that I have forgotten / no knowledge of how this may be achieved. In any case, I was always under the impression that BIOS resided in ROM (Read Only Memory) hardware, which required removing chips and re-buring them with ROM burner hardware. Maybe things have changed since I was last in that world, but to my knowledge the BIOS setting that we can tinker with, are stored in some sort of FLASH memory or similar, which is indeed writeable, and maintained by the on board battery. But, as I say, all this is from many years ago and maybe things have changed. But I would like to at least have some backup way out if 'the evil empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal. Regards Alex Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. Cheers -- As if growing wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7bdb33.2070...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 23/09/11 12:05, chris wrote: but does coreboot support uefi? A. Coreboot is not a commitment (you'd don't have to give up your BIOS/UEFI. B. Maybe. I haven't had time to read the articles but this might be imformative:- http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/category/uefi/ snipped - and *please* don't top post, leap-frogging with a screen read is a pain Cheers Ref:- http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=lang_entbs=qdr%3Ay%2Clr%3Alang_1enq=coreboot+NEAR+%22uefi%22+-%22non-uefit%22oq=coreboot+NEAR+%22uefi%22+-%22non-uefit%22aq=faqi=aql=1gs_sm=e -- As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother. I'd say I don't have to do anything! and he'd say Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter I'd go Oh yeah? even as a kid I was king of the comebacks — Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7bfdfe.3000...@gmail.com
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:04:51 +1000 Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote: Thanks for the quick reply, John. It is a long time ago that I hacked any BIOS, and then it was only with tools made available by the manufacturer to boot the machine in the first place, that I have forgotten / no knowledge of how this may be achieved. In any case, I was always under the impression that BIOS resided in ROM (Read Only Memory) hardware, which required removing chips and re-buring them with ROM burner hardware. Maybe things have changed since I was last in that world, but to my knowledge the BIOS setting that we can tinker with, are stored in some sort of FLASH memory or similar, which is indeed writeable, and maintained by the on board battery. But, as I say, all this is from many years ago and maybe things have changed. But I would like to at least have some backup way out if 'the evil empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal. Regards Alex Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard. That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. Here are a couple of articles that bear on the subject: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-windows-8-block-users-from-dual-booting-linux-microsoft-wont-say/10772 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572 Regards, Weaver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110923151527.31443b77.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
These are the drives I was talking about. Hitachi have put out two the same size. Careful which one of those you buy. One has a far slower spindle speed than the other. Seagate has already advertised a 4 TB internal drive on its way. That's where the UEFI will come into it's own. But with external drives this size, who needs a server? Regards, Weaver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110923154331.43d79846.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware
On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote: That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now. No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional BIOS. Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is. Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87boublscy@turtle.gmx.de
