Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
Nate Bargmann wrote: * Chris Bannister mockingb...@earthlight.co.nz [2009 Jan 25 06:02 -0600]: Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it should have *more* support than, say, postfix or any other MTA. Hold on a minute! I'm not sure what caused this tempest in a teapot to occur, but suffice it to say that since Exim4 is the *default* MTA I would expect more experience with its configuration than with any of the other MTAs in Debian. It's a raw numbers game and Exim4 should have more list members available to offer support than the number 2 used MTA. The fact that Exim4 doesn't get discussed much indicates that it must work well enough out of the box for most users. Looking at the popcon page, of those installations reporting, exim4-daemon-light is installed by 68.10% of people and used by 65.03% of users. See: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=exim4 Now, it's quite possible that all Exim4 is doing on many of these installations is simply handling daemon mail and the MUA of choice is handling the smarthost duties. It's also quite possible that many Debian users have a simple smarthost that doesn't require the special configuration of GoDaddy's smarthost and this thread now exists to help others, i.e. it will provide support in the future. It's quite possible that the Postfix users may well be more knowledgable per capita than the Exim4 users even though Postfix appears to be the number 2 MTA used in Debian per: http://popcon.debian.org/main/mail/by_inst It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot. - Nate A bit late, but I've been unavailable. When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists - just like I do any product. I don't expect this to be a product support list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
* Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net [2009 Jan 31 07:34 -0600]: A bit late, but I've been unavailable. When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists - just like I do any product. In the README.Debian file it quite explicitly discusses that support should be sought on the Debian list first and only afterward should the upstream Exim list be consulted. This is likely due to the Debian configuration changes that have been made to the package. Since I wound up solving my configuration entirely within the framework of the Debian configuration, asking on a Debian list was the proper avenue to take, IMO. For the record, I checked the Debian Exim4 mailing list and it appeared to have very low traffic and since I am already subscribed here, I asked here. I don't expect this to be a product support list. There seems to be a lot of product support that takes place on this list without issue. Why some got upset about this thread is puzzling to me. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On 12/23/42 12:59, Nate Bargmann wrote: * Jerry Stucklejstuc...@attglobal.net [2009 Jan 31 07:34 -0600]: A bit late, but I've been unavailable. When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists - just like I do any product. In the README.Debian file it quite explicitly discusses that support should be sought on the Debian list first and only afterward should the upstream Exim list be consulted. This is likely due to the Debian configuration changes that have been made to the package. Since I wound up solving my configuration entirely within the framework of the Debian configuration, asking on a Debian list was the proper avenue to take, IMO. For the record, I checked the Debian Exim4 mailing list and it appeared to have very low traffic and since I am already subscribed here, I asked here. I don't expect this to be a product support list. There seems to be a lot of product support that takes place on this list without issue. Why some got upset about this thread is puzzling to me. - Nate Hi, What was the solution? I'm interested in getting Exim4 to talk to a smarthost provider. TBird seems to have no problem, but Exim4 provokes an unexpected error.
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On January 31, 2009 11:13:13 am Jeff Chimene wrote: What was the solution? I'm interested in getting Exim4 to talk to a smarthost provider. TBird seems to have no problem, but Exim4 provokes an unexpected error. Did you run dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config? I use a smarthost here with no problem once I ran that command and configured exim4 to do so. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
* Jeff Chimene jchim...@gmail.com [2009 Jan 31 13:32 -0600]: What was the solution? I detailed my config files earlier in the thread. The bullet points are that I had to ensure the actual hostname of the SMTP server was in the config and passwd files. I had to enable a macro to send the authentication in clear text and have my email-addresses and mailname files set correctly. Osamu offered advice that allowed me to solve the local delivery problem and I was able to get everything going smoothly. My thanks to him and the complete details are in the archives. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
Nate Bargmann wrote: * Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net [2009 Jan 31 07:34 -0600]: A bit late, but I've been unavailable. When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists - just like I do any product. In the README.Debian file it quite explicitly discusses that support should be sought on the Debian list first and only afterward should the upstream Exim list be consulted. This is likely due to the Debian configuration changes that have been made to the package. Since I wound up solving my configuration entirely within the framework of the Debian configuration, asking on a Debian list was the proper avenue to take, IMO. I agree with this when the question has something to do with the Debian configuration of Exim. However, the Debian packagers are NOT the experts on the packages themselves (unless the packager also wrote the code - which is not very often). The original developers are. For the record, I checked the Debian Exim4 mailing list and it appeared to have very low traffic and since I am already subscribed here, I asked here. I didn't say anthing about the Debian Exim4 mailing list. I don't expect this to be a product support list. There seems to be a lot of product support that takes place on this list without issue. Why some got upset about this thread is puzzling to me. - Nate Maybe because people are bitching about there not being support - when they're asking in the wrong place, anyway. Sure, there may be some product support here. But that still doesn't make it the best place to ask questions about the product. I have in the past asked a number of questions on the Exim users mailing list, and gotten good answers every time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 03:38:53PM +, Bob Cox wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +, Bob Cox wrote: I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding. As more people go from Windoze -- Ubuntu -- Debian, it becomes more important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line help desk. You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP. Huh? See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html But please, It was not meant as a character assassination. If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with Exim will comment. The clause as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844 and http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635 respectively. Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it should have *more* support than, say, postfix or any other MTA. Hope this explains. Oh dear. I apologise for my sloppy grammar. When I said as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list, I did *not* mean that it ought have more support - I meant that I assumed there *would* be more support available - simply because of its greater number of users. Yeah sorry, I didn't mean to be too specific like that. Also there is the possibility that a lot of people may be using postfix who subscribe to this list, IOW, there will be a lot of people using exim who don't realise it and not even subscribed to this list. AFAIK there seem to be more people ready to jump in with a helping hand when the configuration issue concerns postfix than with exim although I'm not sure whether that may be because people who install postfix have to actually *choose* to install it whereas the people who use exim have it installed by default and don't mecessarily need to mess around the default possible configurations. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +, Bob Cox wrote: I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding. As more people go from Windoze -- Ubuntu -- Debian, it becomes more important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line help desk. You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP. If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with Exim will comment. To use your terminology: that's second-level support :-) -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +, Bob Cox wrote: I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding. As more people go from Windoze -- Ubuntu -- Debian, it becomes more important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line help desk. You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP. Huh? See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html But please, It was not meant as a character assassination. If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with Exim will comment. The clause as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844 and http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635 respectively. Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it should have *more* support than, say, postfix or any other MTA. Hope this explains. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
* Chris Bannister mockingb...@earthlight.co.nz [2009 Jan 25 06:02 -0600]: Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it should have *more* support than, say, postfix or any other MTA. Hold on a minute! I'm not sure what caused this tempest in a teapot to occur, but suffice it to say that since Exim4 is the *default* MTA I would expect more experience with its configuration than with any of the other MTAs in Debian. It's a raw numbers game and Exim4 should have more list members available to offer support than the number 2 used MTA. The fact that Exim4 doesn't get discussed much indicates that it must work well enough out of the box for most users. Looking at the popcon page, of those installations reporting, exim4-daemon-light is installed by 68.10% of people and used by 65.03% of users. See: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=exim4 Now, it's quite possible that all Exim4 is doing on many of these installations is simply handling daemon mail and the MUA of choice is handling the smarthost duties. It's also quite possible that many Debian users have a simple smarthost that doesn't require the special configuration of GoDaddy's smarthost and this thread now exists to help others, i.e. it will provide support in the future. It's quite possible that the Postfix users may well be more knowledgable per capita than the Exim4 users even though Postfix appears to be the number 2 MTA used in Debian per: http://popcon.debian.org/main/mail/by_inst It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 01:18:00 +1300, Chris Bannister (mockingb...@earthlight.co.nz) wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +, Bob Cox wrote: I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding. As more people go from Windoze -- Ubuntu -- Debian, it becomes more important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line help desk. You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP. Huh? See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html But please, It was not meant as a character assassination. If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with Exim will comment. The clause as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844 and http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635 respectively. Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it should have *more* support than, say, postfix or any other MTA. Hope this explains. Oh dear. I apologise for my sloppy grammar. When I said as it's the Debian default it really should have more support available on this list, I did *not* mean that it ought have more support - I meant that I assumed there *would* be more support available - simply because of its greater number of users. -- Bob Cox. Stoke Gifford, near Bristol, UK. Please reply to the list only. Do NOT send copies directly to me. Debian on the NSLU2: http://bobcox.com/slug/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:01:28 -0600, Nate Bargmann in gmane.linux.debian.user wrote: It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot. I'm as guilty as the next person in NOT searching the archives and/or the Debian Wiki; http://wiki.debian.org/PkgExim4 when needing help. I've been getting better though and find that the combos of this list, the Debian Wiki and Google (to search this list) that there is excellent support available. Often better than what I've seen from commercial vendors. I've never had any problem getting all the help I needed when setting up Exim in the past from this list. Doesn't sound like you checked the archives ? -- Regards, S. Fishpaste -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What does support mean? (Re: Exim4 with a Goddady account)
* S. Fishpaste s...@deer-in-the-headlights.ca.invalid [2009 Jan 25 13:10 -0600]: I've never had any problem getting all the help I needed when setting up Exim in the past from this list. Doesn't sound like you checked the archives ? I tried several search terms in Google and it's obvious that not many have configured Exim4 for GoDaddy's server. Some have but never completed their thread by posting what exactly they had to do to get it working. So, I have posted my configuration back on here so it will be in the archive. Fortunately, the Web is littered with solutions to most configuration issues, but this one seemed to me to be a bit more obscure. This is a case where several seemingly unrelated configuration options combine for a solution that isn't obvious to those of us who aren't mail administrators. Thanks to the pointers from Osamu, I was able to get up to speed quickly which is what this list is all about. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
