Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Lu, 11 iun 12, 21:22:53, Christofer C. Bell wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: But unless squeeze is free of the horrible and fast march of updates one experiences on wheezy it may not be a goal after all. While squeeze has updates, they are generally few and far between. This is the intent of the stable release. Also very important, those updates only fix specific issues (security or serious bugs) and should not change the behaviour of stable[1]. [1] there are exceptions to this rule Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Harry Putnam wrote: But unless squeeze is free of the horrible and fast march of updates one experiences on wheezy it may not be a goal after all. Why do you feel that you need to closely track Unstable? There is usually no urgent need to upgrade a package just because the maintainer uploaded a new version. Promptly installing security uploads and doing an occasional dist-upgrade when debian-devel indicates that there are no problems works fine. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87k3zc5uhh@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com writes: Harry Putnam wrote: But unless squeeze is free of the horrible and fast march of updates one experiences on wheezy it may not be a goal after all. Why do you feel that you need to closely track Unstable? There is usually no urgent need to upgrade a package just because the maintainer uploaded a new version. Promptly installing security uploads and doing an occasional dist-upgrade when debian-devel indicates that there are no problems works fine. I'm not sure how you arrived at that question... I'm to get away from not only unstable which hasn't come up in this thread far as I know but also wheezy... looking to get to stable from a wheezy system has been the topic so far. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8762awfebv@newsguy.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Du, 10 iun 12, 13:17:27, Harry Putnam wrote: , | /etc/apt/sources.list | deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main | deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main | deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian squeeze-updates main contrib ` ... But I can tell you that all those notices about updates when I was running testing do not come anymore... Not surprising, given that you don't have wheezy sources anymore. You may want to check the output of apt-show-versions | grep -v squeeze It will show you the packages still to be downgraded to get you to 100% squeeze. Whether you should actually do that depends on the amount and importance of packages. Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz writes: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 01:17:27PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: Err yup, looks like Marty Feldman, although now deceased, could make a comeback otherwise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlPAVm8Gl6M Hilarious. Marty's wall eyes are such an amazing site he doesn't have to do much else. I was speaking of his role in Frankenstein of course... but thanks for the URL... its a good one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8762axmvez@newsguy.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.b...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.b...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: However, I think that happenstance might mean that even a fairly incompetent klutz might be able to blunder thru a huge bout of ripping out kde and most of X then moving from testing to stable, and finally installing lxde and enough of xorg stuff to make it work, without all that much trouble. Harry, this move from testing to stable has me perplexed. How did you accomplish that? Can you please post your /etc/apt/sources.list, the content of /etc/debian_version, the output of uname -a and the versions of the following packages? Egad, don't start picking this apart... it's working :) It was a bit of a slug fest... and I made many moves without recording what I'd done... but I can post the requested stuff. , | /etc/apt/sources.list | deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main | deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main | deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian squeeze-updates main contrib ` , | cat /etc/debian_version | wheezy/sid (whOOOps) ` Well, you seem to be somewhat successfully running testing, but with your sources.list set as it is, you'll never actually get any updated packages. Everything will be newer in testing, and you're pointing only at squeeze (where everything will be either the same or lower version). I would suggest uncommenting the wheezy bits, commenting out the squeeze buts (perhaps adding contrib and non-free at your option) and running another apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and seeing what it wants to do. It's likely to want to install a number of packages to bring your then current wheezy install to the now current versions of packages. You don't have to apply the update, just see what it wants to do. And here I was all patting myself on the back having accomplished some unsupported hackery all on my own But since I've gotten this far and still have a living breathing OS, what must I do to really really go to squeeze. But unless squeeze is free of the horrible and fast march of updates one experiences on wheezy it may not be a goal after all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/871ullmvb1@newsguy.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.b...@gmail.com writes: I would suggest uncommenting the wheezy bits, commenting out the squeeze buts (perhaps adding contrib and non-free at your option) and running another apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and seeing what it wants to do. It's likely to want to install a number of packages to bring your then current wheezy install to the now current versions of packages. You don't have to apply the update, just see what it wants to do. Just for the record, following the above advice, here is the output: I would suggest uncommenting the wheezy bits, commenting out the squeeze buts (perhaps adding contrib and non-free at your option) and running another apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and seeing what it wants to do. It's likely to want to install a number of packages to bring your then current wheezy install to the now current versions of packages. You don't have to apply the update, just see what it wants to do. aptitude full-upgrade , | No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed. | 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. | Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used. ` At least I seem to have fumbled my way thru to a system that is kde free, and running lxde, which was one of my goals. Maybe I can still go to the corner bar and brag? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87wr3dlgcn@newsguy.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: But unless squeeze is free of the horrible and fast march of updates one experiences on wheezy it may not be a goal after all. While squeeze has updates, they are generally few and far between. This is the intent of the stable release. Since wheezy is in testing, it is the next release under development and will update frequently. If you want to be on squeeze, I'd suggest your best option is backing up your data (or if /home is a separate partition this may not be strictly necessary if you're careful) and cleanly installing squeeze. You can get to wheezy through a simple upgrade process once it's released as the next stable. -- Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caoevnyu58euzhrdgwdsgt9kacnjfmdktr93zzsbwpk3xyfp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: However, I think that happenstance might mean that even a fairly incompetent klutz might be able to blunder thru a huge bout of ripping out kde and most of X then moving from testing to stable, and finally installing lxde and enough of xorg stuff to make it work, without all that much trouble. Harry, this move from testing to stable has me perplexed. How did you accomplish that? Can you please post your /etc/apt/sources.list, the content of /etc/debian_version, the output of uname -a and the versions of the following packages? * coreutils (stable is at 8.5-1) * base-files (stable is at 6.0squeeze5) * bash (stable is at 4.1-3) * dpkg (stable is at 1.15.8.12) * apt (stable is at 0.8.10.3+squeeze1) You can check these with: harry@debian:~$ dpkg -l $package_name A downgrade of the operating system to a prior release (in this case, from testing to stable, or from wheezy to squeeze) is really not supported by the package management system. The above files, commands, and package versions look at some key operating system version information and core package versions and will give a good indication as to whether or not you're actually back on stable. I just can't shake the feeling you're now running some sort of frankenstein combination of testing and stable. -- Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOEVnYuON+BUQQJwf5q5XUFyOG5j+=thaqspyqkhxby6asa...@mail.gmail.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Harry Putnam:
Nice unix command line too... It took me a bit to figure out why it
would not copy paste to the cmdline. Finally I realized that the mail
formatting had broke a line you probably did not expect and so there
was no newline escape following `END' in your message.
Yeah, sorry. I actually wrote everything in one line. When pasting it
into the mail, my editor inserted the line breaks and I just added a few
backslashes where I thought appropriate.
The actual problem I have when copy-pasting it back is that I didn't
quote the regular expression ^Installed-Size. Since it is in the
beginning of a line, bash interpreted it as a quick substitution. JFTR
a copy-pasteable version:
for p in $( apt-cache show xserver-xorg-video-all | grep ^Depends | \
cut -d: -f2 | sed -e 's#,##g'); do apt-cache show $p | grep \
^Installed-Size | cut -d: -f2; done | awk ' BEGIN { s=0 } { s+=$1 }
END { print s }'
The line before END doesn't needs it's newline escaped because of the
open single-quoted string.
J.
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Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Du, 10 iun 12, 01:38:17, Christofer C. Bell wrote: I just can't shake the feeling you're now running some sort of frankenstein combination of testing and stable. apt-show-versions would tell. Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.b...@gmail.com writes:
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote:
However, I think that happenstance might mean that even a fairly
incompetent klutz might be able to blunder thru a huge bout of ripping
out kde and most of X then moving from testing to stable, and finally
installing lxde and enough of xorg stuff to make it work, without all
that much trouble.
Harry, this move from testing to stable has me perplexed. How did you
accomplish that? Can you please post your /etc/apt/sources.list, the
content of /etc/debian_version, the output of uname -a and the
versions of the following packages?
Egad, don't start picking this apart... it's working :)
It was a bit of a slug fest... and I made many moves without recording
what I'd done... but I can post the requested stuff.
,
| /etc/apt/sources.list
| deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
| # deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main
| deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
| # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
| deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian squeeze-updates main contrib
`
,
| cat /etc/debian_version
| wheezy/sid (whOOOps)
`
,
| uname -a
| Linux reader 3.0.0-1-686-pae #1 SMP Sat
| Aug 27 16:41:03 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
`
* coreutils (stable is at 8.5-1)
* base-files (stable is at 6.0squeeze5)
* bash (stable is at 4.1-3)
* dpkg (stable is at 1.15.8.12)
* apt (stable is at 0.8.10.3+squeeze1)
,
| dpkg -l coreutils base-files bash dpkg apt
| Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/ ...
| |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
| ||/ Name VersionDescription
| +++-=-===
| ii apt 0.8.15.9 Advd front-end for dpkg
| ii base-files6.5Deb base system misc ...
| ii bash 4.2-1 GNU Bourne Again SHell
| ii coreutils 8.13-3 GNU core utilities
| ii dpkg 1.16.1.2 Deb package management ...
`
,
| dpkg-query -W|awk '{printf %-40s %s\n, $1, $2}'|egrep \
|'^(coreutils |base-files |bash |dpkg |apt )'
| apt 0.8.15.9
| base-files 6.5
| bash 4.2-1
| coreutils8.13-3
| dpkg 1.16.1.2
`
Yikes, looks like I lied thru my teeth.
But I can tell you that all those notices about updates when I was
running testing do not come anymore...
You can check these with:
harry@debian:~$ dpkg -l $package_name
A downgrade of the operating system to a prior release (in this case,
from testing to stable, or from wheezy to squeeze) is really not
supported by the package management system. The above files,
commands, and package versions look at some key operating system
version information and core package versions and will give a good
indication as to whether or not you're actually back on stable. I
just can't shake the feeling you're now running some sort of
frankenstein combination of testing and stable.
Err yup, looks like Marty Feldman, although now deceased, could make a
comeback otherwise.
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Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.b...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: However, I think that happenstance might mean that even a fairly incompetent klutz might be able to blunder thru a huge bout of ripping out kde and most of X then moving from testing to stable, and finally installing lxde and enough of xorg stuff to make it work, without all that much trouble. Harry, this move from testing to stable has me perplexed. How did you accomplish that? Can you please post your /etc/apt/sources.list, the content of /etc/debian_version, the output of uname -a and the versions of the following packages? Egad, don't start picking this apart... it's working :) It was a bit of a slug fest... and I made many moves without recording what I'd done... but I can post the requested stuff. , | /etc/apt/sources.list | deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main | deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free | # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main | deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian squeeze-updates main contrib ` , | cat /etc/debian_version | wheezy/sid (whOOOps) ` Well, you seem to be somewhat successfully running testing, but with your sources.list set as it is, you'll never actually get any updated packages. Everything will be newer in testing, and you're pointing only at squeeze (where everything will be either the same or lower version). I would suggest uncommenting the wheezy bits, commenting out the squeeze buts (perhaps adding contrib and non-free at your option) and running another apt-get update, apt-get upgrade and seeing what it wants to do. It's likely to want to install a number of packages to bring your then current wheezy install to the now current versions of packages. You don't have to apply the update, just see what it wants to do. -- Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caoevnyvghepkiq7ntqtc8bcl4hcc+razgxwsndmetg_txs8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 01:17:27PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: Err yup, looks like Marty Feldman, although now deceased, could make a comeback otherwise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlPAVm8Gl6M -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120611055028.GB25233@tal
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Does this list look a little ridiculous? It doesn't :-) AFAIK this is the default behaviour when installing xserver-xorg, although not all packages may really be needed. While their names are all starting with xserver-xorg-, they are not different servers: many are drivers. xserver-xorg-video-* are graphics drivers and xserver-xorg-video-all depends from them, whereas xserver-xorg-input-* are, indeed, input device drivers. The real server is xserver-xorg-core, while xserver-xorg is a metapackage including other components in the installation, like drivers. You don't really need xserver-xorg-video-all, you can safely exclude it, along with all non needed drivers: after you have identified your graphics chipset you can install only the driver required by it. But this is fine tuning, you can safely go ahead with the default xserver installation. Best regards, Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1339293200.4fd3fe109a...@mail.bluebottle.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Harry Putnam:
I've recently done a tremendous amount of removing and purging. I
wanted rid of kde and finally to install lxde. And threw into the
bargain moving from testing to stable.
Downgrading is unsupported and you should generally expect a lot of
trouble doing so.
There is plenty of howto available for installing lxde, but I'm a bit
puzzled by the output of `aptitude -s install lxde'
It shows quite a herd of stuff to be installed:
…
| xserver-xorg-video-all{a} xserver-xorg-video-apm{a}
…
Note the nest of xservers involved.
There's just one X server, X.org. The list just contains a lot of
drivers for different video and input hardware. That's because lxde
depends on x-display-manager (or gdm3) and that depends on xserver-xorg
and that in turn depends on xserver-xorg-video-all and
xserver-xorg-input-all which pull in all those dependencies.
You don't really need to care about these packages. They take very
little disk space. If you want, you can remove the *-all packages, but
you will have to fiddle with apt(itude) to satisfy dependencies and, of
course, to keep the drivers installed which you actually use. Using
aptitude's interactive TUI mode is probably the easiest way.
BTW, 'aptitude why $packagename' tells you why it wants to have a
certain package installed.
To an experienced debian user:
Does this list look a little ridiculous?
Only superficially. An ad-hoc one-liner to calculate the size of all
direct dependencies of xserver-xorg-video-all:
$ for p in $( apt-cache show xserver-xorg-video-all | grep ^Depends | \
cut -d: -f2 | sed -e 's#,##g'); do apt-cache show $p | grep \
^Installed-Size | cut -d: -f2; done | awk ' BEGIN { s=0 } { s+=$1 } END
{ print s }'
7320
That's kiloBytes. The package xserver-xorg-input-all comes out at 517kB.
J.
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Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 06:55:48PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: I've recently done a tremendous amount of removing and purging. I wanted rid of kde and finally to install lxde. And threw into the bargain moving from testing to stable. Downgrades are not supported. You are in for an uphill battle. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120610022458.GK14772@tal
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz writes: On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 06:55:48PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: I've recently done a tremendous amount of removing and purging. I wanted rid of kde and finally to install lxde. And threw into the bargain moving from testing to stable. Downgrades are not supported. You are in for an uphill battle. Strangely enough things seem to have settled down. I kept installing parts of xorg and lxde and eventually it all seemed to work. Or at least at a casual glance. I am getting a message when the desktop loads (following startx) that says I've had a kernel failure... However I don't see anything obvious that does not seem to be working. I'm not seeing anything regarding kernel in /var/log/messages or /var/log/kern.log... that seems to be about a failure. Possibly I'm just blind. I'm liking what I've seen of lxde so far too. So basically I'm a happy camper... I must say though that none of it happened thru my exceptional skill... it was all blind luck and happenstance. However, I think that happenstance might mean that even a fairly incompetent klutz might be able to blunder thru a huge bout of ripping out kde and most of X then moving from testing to stable, and finally installing lxde and enough of xorg stuff to make it work, without all that much trouble. I might add that there were quite a few instances where aptitude claimed to be installing stuff, but in fact did not. I would just pick out some other package that was involved and try again. Eventually it seemed to work. I guess it points up the truth of the legendary solidity of debian. Of course I may be speaking a bit too soon. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87zk8bydh2@newsguy.com
Re: about installing lxde (which xserver)
ACro a...@bluebottle.com writes: Does this list look a little ridiculous? It doesn't :-) AFAIK this is the default behaviour when installing xserver-xorg, although not all packages may really be needed. [...] Thanks for the details regarding the xserver stuff. Jochen Spieker m...@well-adjusted.de writes: [...] Note the nest of xservers involved. There's just one X server, X.org. The list just contains a lot of drivers for different video and input hardware. That's because lxde depends on x-display-manager (or gdm3) and that depends on xserver-xorg and that in turn depends on xserver-xorg-video-all and xserver-xorg-input-all which pull in all those dependencies. [...] Thanks to you too for the details about the xservers and drivers phenomena. BTW, 'aptitude why $packagename' tells you why it wants to have a certain package installed. Nice tip ... thanks Nice unix command line too... It took me a bit to figure out why it would not copy paste to the cmdline. Finally I realized that the mail formatting had broke a line you probably did not expect and so there was no newline escape following `END' in your message. With that in place it plinks out the size in short order. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87vcizyd8a@newsguy.com
