Re: argh! linux and floppies
Am 2006-11-10 10:35:58, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas: and if this helps, you should probably install udev (and hotplug) to have such things done automatically whenever you try to access floppy disk. While you are talking about... HOW do you prevent discover, hotplug and udev to load 107 Modules? I have deinstalled this crap since I do not need those tonns of modules which are not able to activate my soundcard. I have put manualy 22 modules in my /etc/modules and ALL is working perfectly. How can I blacklist the WHOLE kernel-module path and allow ONLY SOME MODULES? Should I use 'find -name *.ko' and generate a blacklist automaticaly? Hey, some of the automaticaly loaded modules are conflicting! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Am 2006-11-10 10:35:58, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas: and if this helps, you should probably install udev (and hotplug) to have such things done automatically whenever you try to access floppy disk. On 19.11.06 03:47, Michelle Konzack wrote: While you are talking about... HOW do you prevent discover, hotplug and udev to load 107 Modules? I don't use discover. hotplug/udev only load modules for existing hardware on my system. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. The box said 'Requires Windows 95 or better', so I bought a Macintosh. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Am 2006-10-28 17:47:55, schrieb Kent West: I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. On 09.11.06 15:08, Michelle Konzack wrote: modprobe floppy and if this helps, you should probably install udev (and hotplug) to have such things done automatically whenever you try to access floppy disk. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. To Boot or not to Boot, that's the question. [WD1270 Caviar] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-10-28 17:47:55, schrieb Kent West: I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. modprobe floppy [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk lsmod | grep floppy floppy 54788 0 I'm fairly confident I've got two different boxes having faulty floppy drives (although that seems a bit suspicious). I haven't gotten back around to pursuing the issue to be certain; I've put it on the back-burner. Thanks, though! -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Am 2006-10-28 17:47:55, schrieb Kent West: I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. modprobe floppy Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 07:34:14AM -0600, Kent West wrote: Also, everything I was able to find via Google and a specific instruction on this list mentioned using fdformat -n ...fd0u1440 or ...fd0H1440. Whereas the man page for fdformat does indeed mention using setfdprm, it says it in this geekspeak, which is typical of Linux documentation: The generic floppy devices, /dev/fd0 and /dev/fd1, will fail to work with fdformat when a non-standard format is being used, or if the for- mat has not been autodetected earlier. In this case, use setfdprm(8) to load the disk parameters. If I study on this hard enough, I can eventually make sense of it, but it's kind of like reading the King James version of the Bible: it may be majestic and grand and eventually understandable, but for most non-professional readers, they just basically go Huh? I know what you mean. I'd say professional readers would not have a kind thing to say. Reading the manpage for superformat, again, I'm stunned at how little knowledge I would have gleaned from this vast repository of information about the utility, and never would have figured out that it does better with marginal media than fdformat does if you hadn't mentioned it. I'll I used the examples at the end. :-) -- Chris. == ... the official version cannot be abandoned because the implication of rejecting it is far too disturbing: that we are subject to a government conspiracy of `X-Files' proportions and insidiousness. Letter to the LA Times Magazine, September 18, 2005. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Kent West wrote: That's nuts! I made this change also, and now superformat worked without complaining, and the one floppy I've tried (which previously I could not format to save my life) seems to be working fine. Even though I was telling some of the utilities I was trying to use what filesystem/size to use, they'd fail. Then this simple little change works (or at least seems to, with my very limited test sample). Those utilities *should* have worked; decreases my respect for Debian just ever so slightly. sounds like a bug to me. if the fstab auto entry fails, that shouldn't affect any other utility trying to access the drive, IMVHO. A -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Hi Doug. I just noticed your answer in the Debian forum archives to my question about floppies on the mailing list (I must have missed the response in email). Anyway, thanks, that's helpful. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Zbigniew Wiech wrote:
* * * but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not
determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of
course, is,
it's a floppy, you stupid machine.
Floppy is not the name of a file system, and more than one file system
has been used on floppies.
Mike
--
p=p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);};main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Marc Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This thread got me to wondering about my own floppies, which I have not checked in some time. I tried to access several floppies, all unsuccessfully. I OTOH just mounted successfully some floppies that were made about fifteen years ago. -- Hugh Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On 30.10.06 11:45, Mark Grieveson wrote: I've been following this thread with interest, since I was the one who initially expressed his exasperation over Linux coughing up floppies like so much sour milk. Anyway, I finally did find a floppy that was actually mounted by my system (of course, later, my computer rejected it as not worthy also.) Anyway, I did try this superformat on it, with the following result (which, of course, is the Linux computer coughing it up as a snobby vintner coughs up regular wine): I have bad experiences with floppies - they can be easily broken by dust (some floppies are unusable after few years), drives have to be cleaned etc etc. Maybe this is your problem too... debian:/home/mark# superformat /dev/fd0 hd Verifying cylinder 5, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 05 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 05 01 0d 02 I'd say this is a bad floppy. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. 10 GOTO 10 : REM (C) Bill Gates 1998, All Rights Reserved! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
* * * but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. Mark Change file type of /dev/fd0 line in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat I had the same problem and it worked. (worked - more less. About half of floppies I had was reported as faulty, but it's another story) regards
Re: argh! linux and floppies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/31/06 01:31, Cameron L. Spitzer wrote: [This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.] In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Grieveson wrote: [snip] But the best advice is just avoid floppy disks if you possibly can. Fry's has a 1 GB USB flash drive for US$15 after the rebate. That's 700 floppies' worth and it fits on your keyring. Lots of eggs in a basket, and you know the rule about eggs and a basket. They had a 128 MB drive for three bucks. Floppies are obsolete. But there are a lot of obsolete machines out there, in schools, Boys Girls Clubs, hobbyist basements, less-developed countries, etc. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFR0iES9HxQb37XmcRAteRAJ4xziUiVeMd0/QeytxcKhKFxWv5CwCdGn2Y o1kbCE4wCIizZo5HvBpu62I= =4Zdh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
* * * but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. Mark Change file type of /dev/fd0 line in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat I had the same problem and it worked. (worked - more less. About half of floppies I had was reported as faulty, but it's another story) Thanks, that seems to help. Perhaps having it on auto sets up a Catch-22, wherein a floppy that needs to be formatted cannot be due to the requirement of the program having to determine the file system first (which requires that it be formatted). Or maybe not. Anyway, I've had better luck with floppies after making your suggested change; so, thanks again. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Cameron L. Spitzer wrote: But the best advice is just avoid floppy disks if you possibly can. Fry's has a 1 GB USB flash drive for US$15 after the rebate. That's 700 floppies' worth and it fits on your keyring. They had a 128 MB drive for three bucks. Floppies are obsolete. I saw one Fry's ad for either a 128MB, or 256MB (I can't remember which) USB flash drive that was free, after rebate. -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Mark Grieveson wrote: * * * but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. Mark Change file type of /dev/fd0 line in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat I had the same problem and it worked. (worked - more less. About half of floppies I had was reported as faulty, but it's another story) Thanks, that seems to help. Perhaps having it on auto sets up a Catch-22, wherein a floppy that needs to be formatted cannot be due to the requirement of the program having to determine the file system first (which requires that it be formatted). Or maybe not. Anyway, I've had better luck with floppies after making your suggested change; so, thanks again. It seems to be helping here too, for mounting my old floppies, but it still does not want to format them. This may be due to old/faulty floppies, though. I have not actually used a floppy in quite a while and these floppies are ones that I acquired when my father passed away almost eight years ago. The disks are all older than that, possibly more than ten years old. If I come across a new floppy I might give it a try, but I can't see going out and buying some when I don't have any actual use for them at this time. -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 04:01:54PM -0500, Mark Grieveson wrote: * * * but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. Mark Change file type of /dev/fd0 line in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat I had the same problem and it worked. (worked - more less. About half of floppies I had was reported as faulty, but it's another story) Thanks, that seems to help. Perhaps having it on auto sets up a Catch-22, wherein a floppy that needs to be formatted cannot be due to the requirement of the program having to determine the file system first (which requires that it be formatted). Or maybe not. Anyway, I've had better luck with floppies after making your suggested change; so, thanks again. You shouldn't have to mount a floppy if you're going to format it. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/31/06 19:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 04:01:54PM -0500, Mark Grieveson wrote: [snip] You shouldn't have to mount a floppy if you're going to format it. In fact, you *can't* mkfs a mounted partition, can you? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFR/u8S9HxQb37XmcRAguQAJ41tdeQbRz5v7wFKSZVyulwX4cffQCggcVC JsHPA+VP9/rHUGaLljarWUo= =AnhB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 07:43:24PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/31/06 19:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 04:01:54PM -0500, Mark Grieveson wrote: [snip] You shouldn't have to mount a floppy if you're going to format it. In fact, you *can't* mkfs a mounted partition, can you? I think there is some option that overrides all the sanity checks. But otherwise, no. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Thanks, that seems to help. Perhaps having it on auto sets up a Catch-22, wherein a floppy that needs to be formatted cannot be due to the requirement of the program having to determine the file system first (which requires that it be formatted). Or maybe not. Anyway, I've had better luck with floppies after making your suggested change; so, thanks again. You shouldn't have to mount a floppy if you're going to format it. To clarify, I was not in any way suggesting that floppies should be mounted to be formatted. In fact, floppies that I can mount and use have already been successfully formatted, and don't need subsequent formatting. So, when I was unable to mount and use a disk, I wanted to format it to make it usable. When the file system type for /dev/fd0 was set at auto, the computer would frequently complain, when I had an unmountable disk, that it could not determine the file system type. Subsequent efforts to format, and/or fix the disk via superformat, failed. Changing the file type line of /dev/fd0 in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat left the machine with no question as to what the file system type of the disk was; hence, I believe, it overcame that hurdle to identify other errors (bad block, etc), and, more often than before, I was able to format and make the disk usable. You are correct, and I agree, that mounting a floppy is definitely not required to format it. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Mark Grieveson wrote: Thanks, that seems to help. Perhaps having it on auto sets up a Catch-22, wherein a floppy that needs to be formatted cannot be due to the requirement of the program having to determine the file system first (which requires that it be formatted). Or maybe not. Anyway, I've had better luck with floppies after making your suggested change; so, thanks again. When the file system type for /dev/fd0 was set at auto, the computer would frequently complain, when I had an unmountable disk, that it could not determine the file system type. Subsequent efforts to format, and/or fix the disk via superformat, failed. Changing the file type line of /dev/fd0 in /etc/fstab from auto to vfat left the machine with no question as to what the file system type of the disk was; hence, I believe, it overcame that hurdle to identify other errors (bad block, etc), and, more often than before, I was able to format and make the disk usable. That's nuts! I made this change also, and now superformat worked without complaining, and the one floppy I've tried (which previously I could not format to save my life) seems to be working fine. Even though I was telling some of the utilities I was trying to use what filesystem/size to use, they'd fail. Then this simple little change works (or at least seems to, with my very limited test sample). Those utilities *should* have worked; decreases my respect for Debian just ever so slightly. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Marc Wilson wrote: On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:08:53PM -0600, Kent West wrote: sudo fdformat -n /dev/.static/dev/fd0u1440 I have to wonder how you came up with that, vs reading the man page for fdformat(8). Because the man page for fdformat only mentions the /dev/fd* paths, but such paths do not exist on either of my two Sid boxes running 2.16 kernel. The problem was not one of failing to autodetect the floppy parameters, which is what the man page mentions (see below); the problem was that the path was not found. At one point something printed on the screen (via dmesg? I don't remember) which indicated a /dev/.static directory in relation to udev, so I went a'hunting and found these device files there. That tells you to use setfdprm(8) to set the parameters of the generic device before trying to use it. Also, everything I was able to find via Google and a specific instruction on this list mentioned using fdformat -n ...fd0u1440 or ...fd0H1440. Whereas the man page for fdformat does indeed mention using setfdprm, it says it in this geekspeak, which is typical of Linux documentation: The generic floppy devices, /dev/fd0 and /dev/fd1, will fail to work with fdformat when a non-standard format is being used, or if the for- mat has not been autodetected earlier. In this case, use setfdprm(8) to load the disk parameters. If I study on this hard enough, I can eventually make sense of it, but it's kind of like reading the King James version of the Bible: it may be majestic and grand and eventually understandable, but for most non-professional readers, they just basically go Huh? And the man page for setfdprm? Ag! I *never* would have figured out from that man page that setfdprm was of any value to me. Never. Ever. Further, why wouldn't you just use superformat(1)? Because I have never heard of it before. It usually does a MUCH better job with marginal media than fdformat(8) does, and it'll invoke mformat for you when it's done. Reading the manpage for superformat, again, I'm stunned at how little knowledge I would have gleaned from this vast repository of information about the utility, and never would have figured out that it does better with marginal media than fdformat does if you hadn't mentioned it. I'll go try it here in a sec (No! No more secs! I'm sick and tired of secs! (Read it out loud if you have to in order to get the joke.)) === I know you didn't intend it, but your phrases how did you come up with that and why wouldn't you use foo felt like Gee, you're stupid for doing things that way phrases to me, and being as this is morning and I'm not a morning person, that put me into defensive mode such that I then irrationally struck out at Linux documentation. Sorry for my hot reaction. (How do you do a sheepish smiley?) On the other hand, you've provided some helpful information here to which I was previously not privy. Thanks! -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Marc Wilson wrote: Further, why wouldn't you just use superformat(1)? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo superformat /dev/fd0 hd Password: Measuring drive 0's raw capacity In order to avoid this time consuming measurement in the future, add the following line to /etc/driveprm: drive0: deviation=320 CAUTION: The line is drive and controller specific, so it should be removed before installing a new drive 0 or floppy controller. Verifying cylinder 61, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 3d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 3d 01 11 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=61 head=1 sector=17 size=2 error during command execution 66 04 3d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 3d 01 11 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=61 head=1 sector=17 size=2 Verifying cylinder 61, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 3d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 3d 01 11 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=61 head=1 sector=17 size=2 error during command execution 66 04 3d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 3d 01 11 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=61 head=1 sector=17 size=2 === I'm again leaning toward the idea that my floppy drives have gone southward. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
I've been following this thread with interest, since I was the one who initially expressed his exasperation over Linux coughing up floppies like so much sour milk. Anyway, I finally did find a floppy that was actually mounted by my system (of course, later, my computer rejected it as not worthy also.) Anyway, I did try this superformat on it, with the following result (which, of course, is the Linux computer coughing it up as a snobby vintner coughs up regular wine): debian:/home/mark# superformat /dev/fd0 hd Measuring drive 0's raw capacity In order to avoid this time consuming measurement in the future, add the following line to /etc/driveprm: drive0: deviation=0 CAUTION: The line is drive and controller specific, so it should be removed before installing a new drive 0 or floppy controller. Verifying cylinder 5, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 05 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 05 01 0d 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=5 head=1 sector=13 size=2 error during command execution 66 04 05 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 05 01 0d 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=5 head=1 sector=13 size=2 Verifying cylinder 9, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 09 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 09 01 0e 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=9 head=1 sector=14 size=2 error during command execution 66 04 09 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 09 01 0e 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=9 head=1 sector=14 size=2 Verifying cylinder 13, head 1 error during command execution 66 04 0d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 0d 01 0f 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=13 head=1 sector=15 size=2 error during command execution 66 04 0d 01 01 02 12 1b ff 44 20 20 0d 01 0f 02 CRC error in data field CRC error in data or address cylinder=13 head=1 sector=15 size=2 Verifying cylinder 79, head 1 mformat -s18 -t80 -h2 -S2 -M512 a: plain_io: Input/output error mformat: Error reading from '/dev/fd0', wrong parameters? warning: mformat error -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Marc Wilson wrote: On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:08:53PM -0600, Kent West wrote: sudo fdformat -n /dev/.static/dev/fd0u1440 I have to wonder how you came up with that, vs reading the man page for fdformat(8). That tells you to use setfdprm(8) to set the parameters of the generic device before trying to use it. Further, why wouldn't you just use superformat(1)? It usually does a MUCH better job with marginal media than fdformat(8) does, and it'll invoke mformat for you when it's done. This thread got me to wondering about my own floppies, which I have not checked in some time. I tried to access several floppies, all unsuccessfully. Mount either seems to do nothing, or it makes a lot of noise. In either case it does not mount the drive and it never exits, either. I tried to kill mount (as root) but that didnpt work. Nothing will turn the drive light off short of physically removing the diskette. I did try to use superformat. It seemed to do the low level format OK, but then it got to running mformat and the drive just made a whole lot of noise and eventually gave me the following error: $ superformat /dev/fd0 Formatting cylinder 79, head 1 mformat -s18 -t80 -h2 -S2 -M512 a: plain_io: Input/output error mformat: Error reading from '/dev/fd0', wrong parameters? warning: mformat error Verifying cylinder 0, head 0 read: Input/output error remaining -1 It occurs to me that, since I recently installed a new MB, that the controller has changed and possibly the drive as well) since I last tried to use the drive. Superformat would still be using the previous deviation, but where is that stored. I checked the man pages for superformat and fdutils. They say /usr/local/etc/fddriveprm, but this does not exist. Is there some way to force superformat to check the drive and controller again to get the correct deviation for the current drive and controller? -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
I did try to use superformat. It seemed to do the low level format OK, but then it got to running mformat and the drive just made a whole lot of noise and eventually gave me the following error: This is exactly what happens with me as well. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
[This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.] In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Grieveson wrote: I did try to use superformat. It seemed to do the low level format OK, but then it got to running mformat and the drive just made a whole lot of noise and eventually gave me the following error: This is exactly what happens with me as well. One more thing. Scraping the mold helps the head contact the surface better, but it doesn't erase the remnants of the old tracks very well. Those old tracks impose background noise on the new ones and make read errors more likely. Use a bulk eraser if you can. The ones they sell for audio tape work fine. Scrape the mold, then bulk erase, then format. I don't know what fine adjustments superformat thinks it's making. It's been a long time since I looked at the NEC floppy controller but I don't remember it having very many knobs to twiddle. I suspect its reputation for doing a better format than fdformat may be due to it doing a mold scraping pass first. But the best advice is just avoid floppy disks if you possibly can. Fry's has a 1 GB USB flash drive for US$15 after the rebate. That's 700 floppies' worth and it fits on your keyring. They had a 128 MB drive for three bucks. Floppies are obsolete. Cameron -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 12:17:45AM -0400, Mark Grieveson wrote: Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? Years ago it was not bad, but now, even mtoolsfm doesn't seem to work. . . Mark It's frustrating because I've set up a donated computer at my workplace. I work in a homeless shelter. People would like to work on files (ie, resumes) that they have on disks (floppies) but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. It is telling you not that it can't find the floppy but that it can't determine the filesystem type. I've had that. The problem seems to be with floppies formatted on another system even if its the same type as if it where made by linux. If you look in your /etc/fstab for the entry under floppy, you'll probably see something like: /dev/fd0/floppyautouser,noauto00 Its the 'auto' that's the problem. Read the mount man page and it will describe how it handles 'auto' and how you can tell it what to try. The other option is suggests is changing that 'auto' to a comma separated list of possible types, e.g. vfat,msdos. Try mounting it manually to determine what types to put here. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
OK. I just put floppies in my drive, doubleclicked the desktop icon, had them mount and display their contents. No problems at all. I have never had any problems with them. These were formatted in Windows or DOS a while back. One is a Win98 boot floppy which I used very well in Qemu to install a WIn98 image. I have used Debian kernel images and since the necessity of changing options to use realtime-lsm and all the problems getting a good initrd with yaird in its beginning have been compiling my own kernels. 2.6.18-3 sources off Sid as of now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
[This message has also been posted to linux.debian.user.] In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kent West wrote: I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. Could be the media. I have twenty year old floppy disks with no defects. Most floppies I've bought in the last ten years went bad within eighteen months. The old ones had a fungicide to protect the glue from mold. They don't seem to do that any more. I stopped buying new floppies when I got a box where a third had to be scraped before they would work. Surplus places have old ones, unsold antique software still in the EULA wrap. Those work better. Try scraping the mold off with a couple of fdformat -n /dev/fd0u1440 passes before you try to write real data it. Then check it for errors with dd if=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror | sum or something. But if you salvage a bad disk that way, don't expect the data on it to last more than a week or two. Try cleaning the head in the drive with a qtip and rubbing alcohol. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever There's a master boot record on the first sector. But the bytes at the end where the partition table goes aren't used. get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. Fdisk and mformat are failing because they read before writing anything. An old floppy (more than a month since you wrote it last) has faded. You need to write a new set of sector marks with fdformat before it will read reliably. Cfdisk will still fail because there's no geometry to get. Cameron -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Douglas Tutty wrote: If you look in your /etc/fstab for the entry under floppy, you'll probably see something like: /dev/fd0/floppyautouser,noauto00 Its the 'auto' that's the problem. Try mounting it manually to determine what types to put here. You mean like: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo mount -t vfat /dev/fd0 mnt FAT: invalid media value (0xf6) VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev fd0. mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0, missing codepage or other error In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try dmesg | tail or so [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk dmesg | tail floppy0: data CRC error: track 3, head 0, sector 5, size 2 end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 112 floppy0: data CRC error: track 3, head 0, sector 14, size 2 floppy0: data CRC error: track 3, head 0, sector 14, size 2 end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 121 floppy0: sector not found: track 0, head 0, sector 3, size 2 floppy0: sector not found: track 0, head 0, sector 3, size 2 end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 2 FAT: invalid media value (0xf6) VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev fd0. Granted, I only tried on three floppies, on two different machines, but one of the floppies was then taken to a Windows machine where it worked fine. It could be that both of my floppy drives have died since I last used floppies, but that seems a mite suspicious. I plan on trying these floppies on another couple of Debian boxes at work tomorrow. And I think I'll boot up this machine from Knoppix and see how it handles these floppies. More info later -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Cameron L. Spitzer wrote: Could be the media. Try scraping the mold off with a couple of fdformat -n /dev/fd0u1440 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo fdformat -n /dev/fd0u1440 /dev/fd0u1440: No such file or directory Hmm; apparently udev makes this command slightly obsolete now Then check it for errors with dd if=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror | sum [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo dd if=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror | sum dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 0+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 5.73893 seconds, 0.0 kB/s dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 0+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 6.53883 seconds, 0.0 kB/s dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 0+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 7.33908 seconds, 0.0 kB/s dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 0+0 records in and on and on and on. Try cleaning the head in the drive with a qtip and rubbing alcohol. This might do some good, but that'll have to wait until I have those things available. In the meanwhile, I'm going to try another couple of floppies, and via Knoppix. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 06:42:33PM -0600, Kent West wrote: /dev/fd0/floppyautouser,noauto00 Its the 'auto' that's the problem. Try mounting it manually to determine what types to put here. You mean like: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo mount -t vfat /dev/fd0 mnt FAT: invalid media value (0xf6) VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev fd0. mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0, missing codepage or other error In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try dmesg | tail or so [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk dmesg | tail floppy0: data CRC error: track 3, head 0, sector 5, size 2 end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 112 FAT: invalid media value (0xf6) VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev fd0. Could it be type msdos not vfat? Does anyone know what media value 0xf6 is? Does anyone know if Windows checks the CRC data? If it doesn't perhaps its not finding errors that Linux does. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Kent West wrote: I'm going to try another couple of floppies, and via Knoppix. I just tried yet another floppy, and although it looked like it formatted properly, and I was able to copy a few files to it and read those files from it, I then did the verify thing again: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo dd if=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror | sum dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 16+0 records in 16+0 records out 8192 bytes (8.2 kB) copied, 9.51669 seconds, 0.9 kB/s dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 16+0 records in 16+0 records out and on and on and on Now it's time to reboot and try Knoppix. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Kent West wrote: Kent West wrote: I'm going to try another couple of floppies, and via Knoppix. I just tried yet another floppy, and although it looked like it formatted properly, and I was able to copy a few files to it and read those files from it, I then did the verify thing again: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo dd if=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror | sum dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 16+0 records in 16+0 records out 8192 bytes (8.2 kB) copied, 9.51669 seconds, 0.9 kB/s dd: reading `/dev/fd0': Input/output error 16+0 records in 16+0 records out and on and on and on Now it's time to reboot and try Knoppix. Under Knoppix, floppies #4 5 did slightly better, but still generated errors. The sixth one formatted and verified without errors, and so I thought maybe I've just got a bunch of bad floppies, but when I tried to use it in my antiquated floppy-media-based digital camera, the camera complained about a Bad Disk. (This camera works fine with floppies used in a Windows box.) So I'm leaning toward two bad floppy drives in two machines within my house. I'll know more when I can try these floppies in a third and maybe fourth Debian box at work tomorrow. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Kent West wrote: Cameron L. Spitzer wrote: Try scraping the mold off with a couple of fdformat -n /dev/fd0u1440 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk sudo fdformat -n /dev/fd0u1440 /dev/fd0u1440: No such file or directory Hmm; apparently udev makes this command slightly obsolete now Oops; forgot to post the new command: sudo fdformat -n /dev/.static/dev/fd0u1440 -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:39:07PM -0600, Kent West wrote: Kent West wrote: So I'm leaning toward two bad floppy drives in two machines within my house. I'll know more when I can try these floppies in a third and maybe fourth Debian box at work tomorrow. It could be just dirty heads. You may be able to find a floppy head-cleaning disk that would be easier than head cleaner on a foam swab. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
On Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:08:53PM -0600, Kent West wrote: sudo fdformat -n /dev/.static/dev/fd0u1440 I have to wonder how you came up with that, vs reading the man page for fdformat(8). That tells you to use setfdprm(8) to set the parameters of the generic device before trying to use it. Further, why wouldn't you just use superformat(1)? It usually does a MUCH better job with marginal media than fdformat(8) does, and it'll invoke mformat for you when it's done. -- Marc Wilson | Auribus teneo lupum. [I hold a wolf by the ears.] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [Boy, it *sounds* good. But what does it *mean*?] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/28/06 13:29, Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? Years ago it was not bad, but now, even mtoolsfm doesn't seem to work. All of these floppies work in Windows and/or dos drives. I find this to be the case on various different computers that are running Linux (Debian) that I've tried. If anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate it. Shouldn't the A: floppy drive still be /dev/fd0? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFQ7GtS9HxQb37XmcRAsBjAKC7Kf4Fq0psMucDSeM2QFM2rRl0zwCbBqql bCY0CQXxfF28/maA01eJIXc= =YWwu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? Years ago it was not bad, but now, even mtoolsfm doesn't seem to work. All of these floppies work in Windows and/or dos drives. I find this to be the case on various different computers that are running Linux (Debian) that I've tried. If anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate it. Mark I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. Very frustrating. It's nice to know it appears to be happening to someone else also. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/28/06 17:47, Kent West wrote: Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? Years ago it was not bad, but now, even mtoolsfm doesn't seem to work. All of these floppies work in Windows and/or dos drives. I find this to be the case on various different computers that are running Linux (Debian) that I've tried. If anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate it. Mark I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. Very frustrating. It's nice to know it appears to be happening to someone else also. What kernel? Debian binary or home-rolled? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFRA9GS9HxQb37XmcRAu05AJ4w1X4BIeoAoXJloTbopLlw4TNoCwCfSgr9 zzNxrhM80FXJPbO+6nTYk8k= =/sLQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Ron Johnson wrote: On 10/28/06 17:47, Kent West wrote: Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. I decided to put it on the back burner and read my email when I came across your post. I've tried cfdisk and fdisk to look at the partition(s) (do these work on floppies?), and mformat, and mkfs.vfat, and fdformat, and all I ever get is something like could not get geometry of device or Problem reading cylinder 0 or Unable to read /dev/fd0, etc. Very frustrating. It's nice to know it appears to be happening to someone else also. What kernel? Debian binary or home-rolled? Debian binary. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk uname -a Linux westk03 2.6.17-1-k7 #1 SMP Sat Jul 29 16:07:30 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: argh! linux and floppies
Mark Grieveson wrote: Has anyone else noticed how awful Linux has become for dealing with floppies (aka A-drive)? Years ago it was not bad, but now, even mtoolsfm doesn't seem to work. . . Mark I have just 30 minutes ago tried to use three 3.5 floppies on two different machines, and can't get anywhere with them. . . Very frustrating. It's nice to know it appears to be happening to someone else also. What kernel? Debian binary or home-rolled? I first noticed it using Sarge, with the 2.6.8 kernel, and now in Etch, using the 2.6.17 kernel. It's frustrating because I've set up a donated computer at my workplace. I work in a homeless shelter. People would like to work on files (ie, resumes) that they have on disks (floppies) but instead are given the following lecture: mount: i could not determine the filesystem type, and none was specified. The answer, of course, is, it's a floppy, you stupid machine. That such a basic thing as reading a floppy doesn't work, makes me regret that I didn't use Windows on the donated computer for the clients at the shelter. The kernels I refer to are not home-rolled. Default desktop installs in both cases. Mtools, and mtoolsfm, worked in Sarge, but it's working less with Etch, I've noticed. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
