Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-27 Thread lee 
Mauro  writes:

> Here is ntp.conf
>
> statsdir /var/log/ntpstats/

Hm, mine's almost the same, except that I have statistics generation
turned off and am using different servers.  Did you try the program I
wrote?


# /etc/ntp.conf, configuration for ntpd; see ntp.conf(5) for help

driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift


# Enable this if you want statistics to be logged.
#statsdir /var/log/ntpstats/

statistics loopstats peerstats clockstats
filegen loopstats file loopstats type day enable
filegen peerstats file peerstats type day enable
filegen clockstats file clockstats type day enable


server ptbtime1.ptb.de iburst
server ptbtime2.ptb.de iburst
server 0.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 1.de.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 2.de.pool.ntp.org iburst

# By default, exchange time with everybody, but don't allow configuration.
restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery

# Local users may interrogate the ntp server more closely.
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict ::1


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-26 Thread Mauro 
On 26 September 2012 15:57, lee  wrote:
>
> What's in the configuration of your NTP daemon?  Perhaps there's
> something wrong with that.

Here is ntp.conf

statsdir /var/log/ntpstats/

statistics loopstats peerstats clockstats
filegen loopstats file loopstats type day enable
filegen peerstats file peerstats type day enable
filegen clockstats file clockstats type day enable


# You do need to talk to an NTP server or two (or three).
#server ntp.your-provider.example

# pool.ntp.org maps to about 1000 low-stratum NTP servers.  Your server will
# pick a different set every time it starts up.  Please consider joining the
# pool: 
server 0.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 1.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 2.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 3.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst

restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery

# Local users may interrogate the ntp server more closely.
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict ::1

# Clients from this (example!) subnet have unlimited access, but only if
# cryptographically authenticated.
#restrict 192.168.123.0 mask 255.255.255.0 notrust


# If you want to provide time to your local subnet, change the next line.
# (Again, the address is an example only.)
#broadcast 192.168.123.255

# If you want to listen to time broadcasts on your local subnet, de-comment the
# next lines.  Please do this only if you trust everybody on the network!
#disable auth
#broadcastclient


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-26 Thread lee 
Mauro  writes:

> PROBLEM!!
> System clock is gone one hour ahead, ntp stops to run with no messages
> logs and I now I'm in trouble because I don't know what to do.

Try the program below and see what it says.  If it actually tells you
that the time is out of sync, you can write a script around it that
checks the exit code, restores system time from hardware time (if the
hardware time isn't off, too) or with ntpdate, restarts your NTP daemon
if needed and the program.  It won't keep your time from jumping and
only would make it jump back right away.  It's ugly, yet better than
nothing.

If it doesn't tell you that the time is out of sync when it is, I would
wonder why the kernel doesn't know about it ...

My system time doesn't jump and I don't want it to, so I can only say
that the program runs and that the return value of adjtimex() indicates
that the time is ok.


You could also try to use ntpdate with the -q or -d option to get time
from an external reference, verify that with the system time and do
something when the system time is suddenly off.

What's in the configuration of your NTP daemon?  Perhaps there's
something wrong with that.


// this software is licensend under the GPL
// written by l...@yun.yagibdah.de, 2012-09-26
// compile with something like:
//   gcc -Wall -O2 timetellbad.c -o timetellbad
//
// supposed to print a message to stdout, then exit with code 2 when the
//   kernel figures the time is out of sync --- checks every TICK seconds
//


#include 
#include 
#include 


// sleep 5 seconds between checks
#define TICK 5


int main(int argc, char *argv[] ) {

  struct timex tx;
  int cstate;

  tx.modes = 0;

  while(1) {

cstate = adjtimex( &tx);

if( cstate == -1) {
  perror("error");
  return 1;
}
else {
  if( cstate == TIME_BAD) {
puts("time is out of sync, exiting");
return 2;
  }
}

sleep(TICK);
  }

  return 0;
}


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-25 Thread Mauro 
On 22 September 2012 15:51, Camaleón  wrote:
> El 2012-09-21 a las 22:13 +0200, Mauro escribió:
>
> (resending to the list)
>
>> On 21 September 2012 16:30, Camaleón  wrote:
>> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:05:01 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 20 September 2012 22:20, Mauro  wrote:
>> >>> On 20 September 2012 16:56, John Hasler  wrote:
>>  Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
>> > ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
>> > this has happened.
>> 
>>  I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
>>  system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees
>>  a one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait.
>>  I suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
>>  running.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes that is.
>> >>> I have no cron jobs at all, I only have xen and heartbeat + pacemaker
>> >>> on my two nodes and no processes that set the system clock. The clock
>> >>> jumps ahead of one or two hours and I don't know why. Perhaps some
>> >>> kernel bug?
>> >
>> > ntpd should avoid the clock going that forward and keep it disciplined.
>> >
>> >> It seems not ntp problem but a kernel bug:
>> >>
>> >> http://my.opera.com/marcomarongiu/blog/2010/08/18/debugging-ntp-again-part-4-and-last
>> >
>> > You can try the mentioned work-around and see if that works for you.
>> >
>> > Anyway, if that's the case, you should experience the same with different
>> > ntp daemons and not just with ntpd :-?
>>
>> I've experienced the same problem also with openntp.
>
> That makes more sense.
>
> Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing is
> that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact
> so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is
> completely killing the service.
>
>> Now I'm back with ntp using the workaround mentioned, hope it works.
>
> Perfect, tell us how it went.

PROBLEM!!
System clock is gone one hour ahead, ntp stops to run with no messages
logs and I now I'm in trouble because I don't know what to do.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Rick Thomas 


On Sep 23, 2012, at 6:13 AM, David L. Craig wrote:


On 12Sep23:0208-0700, Rick Thomas wrote:


On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Camaleón wrote:


Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time;
one thing is that it refushes to sync (which can be fine,
and should log this fact so the admin can make the proper
measures) but a different thing is completely killing the
service.


That issue has been argued on the NTP developer mailing lists.
Crashing the daemon is Dave Mills' way of telling the admin
that something is badly broken here and needs to be fixed.
Several developers (myself included) disagreed with him at the
time, but he was adamant on the subject.  So that's the way it
is.


There must be at least one patch available and maintained
that can be applied to modify the official distribution's
behavior if multiple developers disagree with this
behavior.  Where should one look?



The final outcome was that -- some years later -- the "-g" option was  
added to ntpd. Quoting from "man 8 ntpd":



 -g Normally,  ntpd  exits  with a message to the system log if
the offset exceeds the panic threshold, which is 1000 s  by
default.   This  option  allows  the  time to be set to any
value without restriction; however, this  can  happen  only
once.   If  the threshold is exceeded after that, ntpd will
exit with a message to the system log.  This option can  be
used with the -q and -x options.


This was added to allow closing out support for ntpdate, but it also  
satisfied most of the developers who felt that crashing was an  
ungraceful way of delivering a message.


It works for me.

Rick



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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Camaleón 
El 2012-09-22 a las 12:42 -0700, unruh escribió:

(resending to the list)

> In linux.debian.user, you wrote:

(...)

> >> >> It seems not ntp problem but a kernel bug:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://my.opera.com/marcomarongiu/blog/2010/08/18/debugging-ntp-again-part-4-and-last
> >> >
> >> > You can try the mentioned work-around and see if that works for you.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, if that's the case, you should experience the same with different
> >> > ntp daemons and not just with ntpd :-?
> >> 
> >> I've experienced the same problem also with openntp.
> >
> > That makes more sense. 
> >
> > Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing is 
> > that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact 
> > so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is 
> > completely killing the service.
> 
> One of the features of ntpd-- as stated in the documentation-- is that
> if the time is too far out, ntpd will put a warning into the log file
> and exit/quit. If that happens the attitude of Mills is that something
> is very seriously wrong, and the best thing that ntpd can do is to quit,
> and let a human fix theproblem. It does not crash. It quits in an
> orderly fashion. If you want something that does not quit, and does not
> have the 500PPM limit of clock slewing, get chrony.

Yes, thanks for the hints. It seems to be in the end a software design 
restriction which makes not much sense to me. A software delevoper 
should understand that an exited daemon is of no help neither for an 
admin human being nor for an automated system: quitting is the worst a 
process can do and not only because a needed service is stopped but 
also because no logs and no more information will be provided. Nothing.

On the other hand, I guess ntpd can be configured to sync with remote 
servers at predefined interval (i.e., 5 or 12 minutes) that way, 
unless the host clock is badly broken, the time will be kept synced.

> >> Now I'm back with ntp using the workaround mentioned, hope it works.
> >
> > Perfect, tell us how it went.
> 
> IF the clock really does jump suddenly by an hour, it will never work.

Well, I think the work-around is precissely to avoid the kernel from 
going nuts with the time.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Camaleón 
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:08:19 -0700, Rick Thomas wrote:

> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Camaleón wrote:
> 
>> Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing is
>> that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact
>> so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is
>> completely killing the service.
> 
> 
> Hi Camaleón!  A bit of NTP history:
> 
> That issue has been argued on the NTP developer mailing lists. Crashing
> the daemon is Dave Mills' way of telling the admin that something is
> badly broken here and needs to be fixed.  Several developers (myself
> included) disagreed with him at the time, but he was adamant on the
> subject.  So that's the way it is.

Wow... I didn't know about the reason "in behind", thanks. Needless to 
say I also find it a bit radical measure for dealing with a problem. 
Should we also evaluate a kernel error in that way, no system would be up 
for more than... a week? :-)

Either way, ntpd provides some options to conciliate with severely skewed 
time which can help to prevent (or mitigate) the daemon to crash.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread David L. Craig 
On 12Sep23:0208-0700, Rick Thomas wrote:
> 
> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> >Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time;
> >one thing is that it refushes to sync (which can be fine,
> >and should log this fact so the admin can make the proper
> >measures) but a different thing is completely killing the
> >service.
> 
> That issue has been argued on the NTP developer mailing lists.
> Crashing the daemon is Dave Mills' way of telling the admin
> that something is badly broken here and needs to be fixed.
> Several developers (myself included) disagreed with him at the
> time, but he was adamant on the subject.  So that's the way it
> is.

There must be at least one patch available and maintained
that can be applied to modify the official distribution's
behavior if multiple developers disagree with this
behavior.  Where should one look?
-- 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012, Neal Murphy wrote:
> I must agree that that was a somewhat braindead decision. 'Failure by design' 
> is never an valid option.
> 
> If a problem is important enough to require an admin's attention, a daemon 
> should demand it via the console and the system logs. Nag repeatedly and 

Do that and you will DoS the system logs.  You log it *ONCE* using the
appropriate facility and severity.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Neal Murphy 
On Sunday, September 23, 2012 05:08:19 AM Rick Thomas wrote:
> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Camaleón wrote:
> > Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing
> > is
> > that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact
> > so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is
> > completely killing the service.
> 
> Hi Camaleón!  A bit of NTP history:
> 
> That issue has been argued on the NTP developer mailing lists.
> Crashing the daemon is Dave Mills' way of telling the admin that
> something is badly broken here and needs to be fixed.  Several
> developers (myself included) disagreed with him at the time, but he
> was adamant on the subject.  So that's the way it is.

I must agree that that was a somewhat braindead decision. 'Failure by design' 
is never an valid option.

If a problem is important enough to require an admin's attention, a daemon 
should demand it via the console and the system logs. Nag repeatedly and 
incessantly until the problem is corrected. Interrupt booting until the admin 
has acknowledged the problem. But never fail silently.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-23 Thread Rick Thomas 


On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Camaleón wrote:

Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing  
is

that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact
so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is
completely killing the service.



Hi Camaleón!  A bit of NTP history:

That issue has been argued on the NTP developer mailing lists.   
Crashing the daemon is Dave Mills' way of telling the admin that  
something is badly broken here and needs to be fixed.  Several  
developers (myself included) disagreed with him at the time, but he  
was adamant on the subject.  So that's the way it is.


Rick

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-22 Thread Camaleón 
El 2012-09-21 a las 22:13 +0200, Mauro escribió:

(resending to the list)

> On 21 September 2012 16:30, Camaleón  wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:05:01 +0200, Mauro wrote:
> >
> >> On 20 September 2012 22:20, Mauro  wrote:
> >>> On 20 September 2012 16:56, John Hasler  wrote:
>  Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
> > ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
> > this has happened.
> 
>  I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
>  system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees
>  a one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait.
>  I suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
>  running.
> >>>
> >>> Yes that is.
> >>> I have no cron jobs at all, I only have xen and heartbeat + pacemaker
> >>> on my two nodes and no processes that set the system clock. The clock
> >>> jumps ahead of one or two hours and I don't know why. Perhaps some
> >>> kernel bug?
> >
> > ntpd should avoid the clock going that forward and keep it disciplined.
> >
> >> It seems not ntp problem but a kernel bug:
> >>
> >> http://my.opera.com/marcomarongiu/blog/2010/08/18/debugging-ntp-again-part-4-and-last
> >
> > You can try the mentioned work-around and see if that works for you.
> >
> > Anyway, if that's the case, you should experience the same with different
> > ntp daemons and not just with ntpd :-?
> 
> I've experienced the same problem also with openntp.

That makes more sense. 

Anyway, no NTP daemon should crash because of skewed time; one thing is 
that it refushes to sync (which can be fine, and should log this fact 
so the admin can make the proper measures) but a different thing is 
completely killing the service.

> Now I'm back with ntp using the workaround mentioned, hope it works.

Perfect, tell us how it went.

Greetings,

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-21 Thread Camaleón 
On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:05:01 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> On 20 September 2012 22:20, Mauro  wrote:
>> On 20 September 2012 16:56, John Hasler  wrote:
>>> Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
 ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
 this has happened.
>>>
>>> I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
>>> system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees
>>> a one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait. 
>>> I suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
>>> running.
>>
>> Yes that is.
>> I have no cron jobs at all, I only have xen and heartbeat + pacemaker
>> on my two nodes and no processes that set the system clock. The clock
>> jumps ahead of one or two hours and I don't know why. Perhaps some
>> kernel bug?

ntpd should avoid the clock going that forward and keep it disciplined.

> It seems not ntp problem but a kernel bug:
> 
> http://my.opera.com/marcomarongiu/blog/2010/08/18/debugging-ntp-again-part-4-and-last

You can try the mentioned work-around and see if that works for you.

Anyway, if that's the case, you should experience the same with different
ntp daemons and not just with ntpd :-?

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-21 Thread Mauro 
On 20 September 2012 22:20, Mauro  wrote:
> On 20 September 2012 16:56, John Hasler  wrote:
>> Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
>>> ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
>>> this has happened.
>>
>> I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
>> system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees a
>> one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait.  I
>> suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
>> running.
>> --
>> John Hasler
>
> Yes that is.
> I have no cron jobs at all, I only have xen and heartbeat + pacemaker
> on my two nodes and no processes that set the system clock.
> The clock jumps ahead of one or two hours and I don't know why.
> Perhaps some kernel bug?

It seems not ntp problem but a kernel bug:

http://my.opera.com/marcomarongiu/blog/2010/08/18/debugging-ntp-again-part-4-and-last


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-20 Thread Mauro 
On 20 September 2012 16:56, John Hasler  wrote:
> Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
>> ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
>> this has happened.
>
> I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
> system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees a
> one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait.  I
> suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
> running.
> --
> John Hasler

Yes that is.
I have no cron jobs at all, I only have xen and heartbeat + pacemaker
on my two nodes and no processes that set the system clock.
The clock jumps ahead of one or two hours and I don't know why.
Perhaps some kernel bug?


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-20 Thread John Hasler 
Someone who Stefan failed to identify wrote:
> ...ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
> this has happened.

I doubt ntpd is crashing.  Most likely something else is jumping the
system clock and ntpd is behaving as designed and exiting when it sees a
one hour error.  Shut down ntpd, set the clock correctly, and wait.  I
suspect that eventually you'll see the clock jump even without ntpd
running.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-20 Thread Stefan Monnier 
>>> with ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
>>> this has happened.  However I'm not convinced it's the hardware causing
>> Sounds like something is causing the one-hour jump, and that in turns
>> causes ntpd to go bonkers.
>> As for what causes this jump, I don't know.  Some cron job, maybe?
> No I have no cron jobs.

Not sure what else it can be.  The one-hour difference suggests it might
be linked to time-zone or DST issues, maybe some code that syncs
up the internal time with some "external" (could be an RTC) clock?


Stefan


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-18 Thread Mauro 
On 18 September 2012 15:51, Stefan Monnier  wrote:
>> with ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
>> this has happened.  However I'm not convinced it's the hardware causing
>
> Sounds like something is causing the one-hour jump, and that in turns
> causes ntpd to go bonkers.
> As for what causes this jump, I don't know.  Some cron job, maybe?

No I have no cron jobs.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-18 Thread Stefan Monnier 
> with ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
> this has happened.  However I'm not convinced it's the hardware causing

Sounds like something is causing the one-hour jump, and that in turns
causes ntpd to go bonkers.
As for what causes this jump, I don't know.  Some cron job, maybe?


Stefan


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-18 Thread Mauro 
On 17 September 2012 21:47, Bob Proulx  wrote:
> Mauro wrote:
>> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
>> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
>> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
>> That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
>> resynchronize so it crashes.
>
> Is it really crashing or is this intended behavior.  The ntpd is
> documented with:
>
>-g Normally, ntpd exits with a message to the system log if the
>   offset exceeds the panic threshold, which is 1000 s by
>   default.  This option allows the time to be set to any value
>   without restriction; however, this can happen only once.  If
>   the threshold is exceeded after that, ntpd will exit with a
>   message to the system log.  This option can be used with the
>   -q and -x options.
>
> Therefore if the time is one hour forward that will be greater than
> the threshold 1000 seconds and ntp will exit.  As described this is so
> that the admin may adjust the time manually to some specific value
> (for whatever reason, testing, whatever) and ntpd will get out of the
> way.
>
> It also says that ntpd will log a message to the system log when this
> condition occurs.

No message logs.

>
> I think it is possible that you have some additional process that is
> setting the clock and this is jumping the time forward one hour and
> because the time is jumped forward one hour that exceeds the ntpd
> panic threshold and therefore ntpd decides that it should get out of
> the way and it intentionally exits.  This intentional behavior is
> quite a bit different from a crash.

I have no additional processes.
Now I'm trying openntp.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-18 Thread Mauro 
On 17 September 2012 19:33, Gerald Turner  wrote:
> Mauro  writes:
>> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
>> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
>> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
>> That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
>> resynchronize so it crashes.
>> Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.
>> Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so
>> why sometimes it goes forward?
>> Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?
>
> Hi Mauro, I find this interesting because I have seen the same behavior
> with ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
> this has happened.  However I'm not convinced it's the hardware causing
> ntpd to crash.  I don't understand why ntpd process exiting silently
> would allow the jump either, I would expect it to drift a few seconds
> over time, but one hour exactly every time?!  Even with monit in place,
> within the two minute window that polling takes place and ntpd has
> crashed, before monit automatically starts ntpd, time is forward an
> hour.

I'm trying openntp now, I hope it works.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-17 Thread Bob Proulx 
Mauro wrote:
> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
> That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
> resynchronize so it crashes.

Is it really crashing or is this intended behavior.  The ntpd is
documented with:

   -g Normally, ntpd exits with a message to the system log if the
  offset exceeds the panic threshold, which is 1000 s by
  default.  This option allows the time to be set to any value
  without restriction; however, this can happen only once.  If
  the threshold is exceeded after that, ntpd will exit with a
  message to the system log.  This option can be used with the
  -q and -x options.

Therefore if the time is one hour forward that will be greater than
the threshold 1000 seconds and ntp will exit.  As described this is so
that the admin may adjust the time manually to some specific value
(for whatever reason, testing, whatever) and ntpd will get out of the
way.

It also says that ntpd will log a message to the system log when this
condition occurs.

I think it is possible that you have some additional process that is
setting the clock and this is jumping the time forward one hour and
because the time is jumped forward one hour that exceeds the ntpd
panic threshold and therefore ntpd decides that it should get out of
the way and it intentionally exits.  This intentional behavior is
quite a bit different from a crash.

> Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.

I have in past experience run into a case where someone had set up a
date setting cron task that is running exactly on the hour.  Due to
small race condition differences the cron task would sometimes set the
time incorrectly and would cause an hour jump as you describe.  In my
case removing the date setting cron task solved the problem I
described.  But I do not know if that is your problem or not.

> Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so
> why sometimes it goes forward?
> Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?

The hardware clock is normally only used at two different places.  One
is at boot when the operating system time is loaded from the hardware
clock time.  The other is at system shutdown when the hardware clock
time is set from the current operating system time.  The hardware
clock is not otherwised used by the operating system.  The operating
system always uses the operating system time.

Bob


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-17 Thread Gerald Turner 
Mauro  writes:
> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
> That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
> resynchronize so it crashes.
> Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.
> Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so
> why sometimes it goes forward?
> Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?

Hi Mauro, I find this interesting because I have seen the same behavior
with ntpd crashes on my server.  Time jumps forward one hour every time
this has happened.  However I'm not convinced it's the hardware causing
ntpd to crash.  I don't understand why ntpd process exiting silently
would allow the jump either, I would expect it to drift a few seconds
over time, but one hour exactly every time?!  Even with monit in place,
within the two minute window that polling takes place and ntpd has
crashed, before monit automatically starts ntpd, time is forward an
hour.

Do you happen to run a SuperMicro 5016T-MTFB¹ or a simlar board with an
IPMI/baseboard management controller?

¹ http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/5016/SYS-5016T-MTF.cfm

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-16 Thread Mauro 
On 16 September 2012 17:46, Camaleón  wrote:

> Try by appending the "-x" argument at the "/etc/default/ntp" file from
> the server that crashes. If your thoughs are correct, this could mitigate
> the time difference.

I've uninstalled ntp and installed openntp from squeeze backports.
I hope this works.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-16 Thread Camaleón 
El 2012-09-16 a las 00:17 +0200, Mauro escribió:

(resending to the list)

> On 15 September 2012 16:47, Camaleón  wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:43:04 +0200, Mauro wrote:
> >
> >> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
> >
> > How can that be? If ntpd daemon is running, the server has to be synced
> > and showing the right time. And in the event the time is too much skewed,
> > ntpd shouldn't crash but left the time unsynced and registering the error
> > at the logs (check if adding "-x" argument to ntpd helps here).
> >
> >> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
> >> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward. That's why ntp
> >> crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't resynchronize so
> >> it crashes.
> >
> > IIRC, you mentioned that after the crash, ntpd could be restarted again
> > without problems. If that's true, it means at the time ntpd daemon is
> > started, the time of the server is still close to a good enough for ntpd
> > can be launched without manual corrections.
> >
> >> Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.
> >
> > Becasue ntpd crashed?
> >
> 
> Then for me it is a great problem because there are no reasons for
> ntpd to crash.

Sure, there's no single reason for a daemon to crash (their normal 
status should be "running" unless you tell otherwise :-P), a crash is  
something that needs to be investigated in deep but with debug flag 
turned off an no other insightful logs, that's hard to achieve.

> In one of my two cluster nodes ntp crashes only in the second node.
> The nodes have the same hardware and the same software so I don't know
> why ntpd crashes always in the second node.

Try by appending the "-x" argument at the "/etc/default/ntp" file from 
the server that crashes. If your thoughs are correct, this could mitigate 
the time difference.

Greetings,

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-15 Thread Camaleón 
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:43:04 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.

How can that be? If ntpd daemon is running, the server has to be synced 
and showing the right time. And in the event the time is too much skewed, 
ntpd shouldn't crash but left the time unsynced and registering the error 
at the logs (check if adding "-x" argument to ntpd helps here).

> I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
> crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward. That's why ntp
> crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't resynchronize so
> it crashes.

IIRC, you mentioned that after the crash, ntpd could be restarted again 
without problems. If that's true, it means at the time ntpd daemon is 
started, the time of the server is still close to a good enough for ntpd 
can be launched without manual corrections.

> Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward. 

Becasue ntpd crashed?

> Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so why
> sometimes it goes forward?

Virtual machines do suffer from time sync issues so maybe a clusterized 
environment can also be affected somehow :-?

> Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?

You can change the CMOS battery to see if that makes a difference but a 
death or bad battery would also have caused additional side effects such 
as motherboard settings restoring to defaults values which is not the 
case.

Greetings,

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-15 Thread Mauro 
I think ntpd crashes are because my server lost time.
I have ntpd in two server, now I've seen that in one of these ntp
crashes and the time of the server is 1 hour forward.
That's why ntp crashes: server time goes 1 hour forward and ntp can't
resynchronize so it crashes.
Now I don't know why my server time goes 1 hour forward.
Hwclock --debug says that the time is correct, it is set on UTC, so
why sometimes it goes forward?
Perhaps a problem in the cmos battery?


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-15 Thread Bob Proulx 
Mauro wrote:
> What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?

'ntpdate' jumps the clock.  It was intended for use at system boot
time when that is okay to do.  'ntpd' is a daemon that runs and makes
small clock adjustments as needed to keep time without "jumping" it.

The 'ntpdate' command is now deprecated.  It's functionality has been
written into the ntp daemon code.  The ntpd daemon now has ntpdate
functionality with:

  $ man ntpd

   -g Normally, ntpd exits with a message to the system log if the 
offset
  exceeds  the  panic  threshold,  which  is 1000 s by default.  
This
  option allows the time to be set to any value without  
restriction;
  however,  this  can happen only once.  If the threshold is 
exceeded
  after that, ntpd will exit with a message to the system log.   
This
  option can be used with the -q and -x options.

   -q Exit  the  ntpd  just  after the first time the clock is set.  
This
  behavior mimics that  of  the  ntpdate  program,  which  is  to  
be
  retired.   The  -g  and  -x  options  can be used with this 
option.
  Note: The kernel time discipline is disabled with this option.

Running ntpd to adjust the clock continuously is much better than
jumping the clock with ntpdate.

Bob


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-12 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:54:50 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> On 11 September 2012 17:32, Camaleón  wrote:

(...)

 You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using
 cron and see how it goes :-?
>>>
>>> What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?
>>
>> Well, AFAIK they're different packages for different purposes, other
>> than that, I can't tell. But if you search for a full replacement of
>> "ntp" functionalities (client/server) you can look at "openntpd" and
>> "chrony".
> 
> openntpd is not in debian squeeze, I'm thinking to replace ntpd with
> chrony.

I have no special preference over the two packages but "openntpd" is 
available from squeeze-backports.

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-12 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:16:05 +0100, Chris Davies wrote:

> Camaleón  wrote:
>> You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using
>> cron and see how it goes :-?
> 
> Huh?

Yes, for testing purposes.

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Mauro 
On 11 September 2012 17:32, Camaleón  wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:53:43 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>
>> On 11 September 2012 16:48, Camaleón  wrote:
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:54:59 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>>>
 On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies 
 wrote:
> Mauro  wrote:
>> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with
>> cron.
>
> Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly,
> though, you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the
> clock.

 If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else
 I can do. I need to have time synchronized between my servers.
>>>
>>> You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using
>>> cron and see how it goes :-?
>>
>> What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?
>
> Well, AFAIK they're different packages for different purposes, other than
> that, I can't tell. But if you search for a full replacement of "ntp"
> functionalities (client/server) you can look at "openntpd" and "chrony".

openntpd is not in debian squeeze, I'm thinking to replace ntpd with chrony.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Chris Davies 
Camaleón  wrote:
> You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using 
> cron and see how it goes :-?

Huh?

Chris


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Chris Davies 
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> Does "jump the clock" mean that the time is synced hard, ignoring
> timestamps?

Yes.

Ntpdate is as likely to set the clock back as it is to put it
forward. Your applications might be able to cope with a second being
only 800ms long, but databases and the like get very upset if they "know"
the time's 18:01:56 and suddenly it's now only 18:01:55 (for example).

Chris


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:53:43 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> On 11 September 2012 16:48, Camaleón  wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:54:59 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>>
>>> On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies 
>>> wrote:
 Mauro  wrote:
> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with
> cron.

 Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly,
 though, you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the
 clock.
>>>
>>> If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else
>>> I can do. I need to have time synchronized between my servers.
>>
>> You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using
>> cron and see how it goes :-?
> 
> What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?

Well, AFAIK they're different packages for different purposes, other than 
that, I can't tell. But if you search for a full replacement of "ntp" 
functionalities (client/server) you can look at "openntpd" and "chrony".

Greetings,

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Mauro 
On 11 September 2012 13:03, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 12:54 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>> On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies  wrote:
>> > Mauro  wrote:
>> >> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.
>> >
>> > Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly, though,
>> > you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the clock.
>>
>> If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else I can 
>> do.
>> I need to have time synchronized between my servers.
>
> I'm a ntpdate and sntp user. I never had issues using ntpdate and sntp
> manually.

sntp is in debian packages?


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Mauro 
On 11 September 2012 16:48, Camaleón  wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:54:59 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>
>> On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies 
>> wrote:
>>> Mauro  wrote:
 I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.
>>>
>>> Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly,
>>> though, you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the
>>> clock.
>>
>> If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else I
>> can do. I need to have time synchronized between my servers.
>
> You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using
> cron and see how it goes :-?

What's the difference of running ntpdate instead ntp with cron?


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:54:59 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies 
> wrote:
>> Mauro  wrote:
>>> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.
>>
>> Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly,
>> though, you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the
>> clock.
> 
> If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else I
> can do. I need to have time synchronized between my servers.

You can try a different approach: do not run ntpd as daemon but using 
cron and see how it goes :-?

Greetings,

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Ralf Mardorf 
On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 12:54 +0200, Mauro wrote:
> On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies  wrote:
> > Mauro  wrote:
> >> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.
> >
> > Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly, though,
> > you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the clock.
> 
> If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else I can 
> do.
> I need to have time synchronized between my servers.

I'm a ntpdate and sntp user. I never had issues using ntpdate and sntp
manually. I don't sync the clock by a cron job. Does "jump the clock"
mean that the time is synced hard, ignoring timestamps?



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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Mauro 
On 11 September 2012 10:58, Chris Davies  wrote:
> Mauro  wrote:
>> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.
>
> Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly, though,
> you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the clock.

If ntp stops running with apparently no reasons I don't know what else I can do.
I need to have time synchronized between my servers.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-11 Thread Chris Davies 
Mauro  wrote:
> I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.

Not a particularly good solution for a number of reasons. Mainly, though,
you need to be aware that ntpdate is quite likely to jump the clock.

Chris


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-10 Thread Mauro 
On 11 September 2012 00:08, Gerald Turner  wrote:
> Camaleón  writes:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:31:16 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>>
>>> Hello I've two server with debian squeeze and in cluster with
>>> heartbeat+pacemaker.
>>> They run ntpd for time synchronize.
>>> I've noticed some ntpd crashes in random days and random hour.
>>
>> Does restarting the service works?
>>
>>> Logs don't say why.
>>> Can you suggest what can I do to know the reasons for the crash. Thank
>>> you.
>>
>> Mmmm... there's a bug report¹ to request ntpd debugging flag is turned
>> on (which I think is a must) but in the meantime I guess you will have
>> to recompile the package from Debian sources and toggle this parameter
>> on if you want to get an insightful trace.
>>
>> ¹http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=643954
>
> I too get random crashes with ntpd in squeeze (1:4.2.6.p2+dfsg-1+b1) on
> a Xen dom0 host.  Frequency is about every two months.  It prompted me
> to install monit² which has nice support for probing NTP protocol and
> restarting the service automatically - not a perfect solution since the
> clock jumps forward an hour during the breakage, upsetting lots of
> software (dovecot and RRD graphs mostly).

Exactly.
I too have Xen dom0 hosts where ntp crashes.
I think the best solution is uninstall ntp and use ntpdate with cron.


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-10 Thread Gerald Turner 
Camaleón  writes:

> On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:31:16 +0200, Mauro wrote:
>
>> Hello I've two server with debian squeeze and in cluster with
>> heartbeat+pacemaker.
>> They run ntpd for time synchronize.
>> I've noticed some ntpd crashes in random days and random hour. 
>
> Does restarting the service works?
>
>> Logs don't say why.
>> Can you suggest what can I do to know the reasons for the crash. Thank
>> you.
>
> Mmmm... there's a bug report¹ to request ntpd debugging flag is turned
> on (which I think is a must) but in the meantime I guess you will have
> to recompile the package from Debian sources and toggle this parameter
> on if you want to get an insightful trace.
>
> ¹http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=643954

I too get random crashes with ntpd in squeeze (1:4.2.6.p2+dfsg-1+b1) on
a Xen dom0 host.  Frequency is about every two months.  It prompted me
to install monit² which has nice support for probing NTP protocol and
restarting the service automatically - not a perfect solution since the
clock jumps forward an hour during the breakage, upsetting lots of
software (dovecot and RRD graphs mostly).

There is a bug report³ that defines our situation exactly: ntpd exits
randomly with no messages in syslog.

Thanks Camaleón for the idea to rebuild with debug - I'll try that next
time around :)

² http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/monit
³ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594071

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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-10 Thread Camaleón 
El 2012-09-09 a las 22:20 +0200, Mauro escribió:

(resending to the list)

> On 9 September 2012 19:52, Camaleón  wrote:
> > On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:31:16 +0200, Mauro wrote:
> >
> >> Hello I've two server with debian squeeze and in cluster with
> >> heartbeat+pacemaker.
> >> They run ntpd for time synchronize.
> >> I've noticed some ntpd crashes in random days and random hour.
> >
> > Does restarting the service works?
> 
> Yes.

Mmm, so it dies "gracefully" :-?

> >> Logs don't say why.
> >> Can you suggest what can I do to know the reasons for the crash. Thank
> >> you.
> >
> > Mmmm... there's a bug report¹ to request ntpd debugging flag is turned on
> > (which I think is a must) but in the meantime I guess you will have to
> > recompile the package from Debian sources and toggle this parameter on if
> > you want to get an insightful trace.
> 
> Yes I know and to me it is a very strange choice to have ntp debian
> package without debugging flag.

Apparently, the option was removed because of an old bug, but I agree it 
should be enabled as soon as possible.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón 


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Re: ntpd crashes.

2012-09-09 Thread Camaleón 
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:31:16 +0200, Mauro wrote:

> Hello I've two server with debian squeeze and in cluster with
> heartbeat+pacemaker.
> They run ntpd for time synchronize.
> I've noticed some ntpd crashes in random days and random hour. 

Does restarting the service works?

> Logs don't say why.
> Can you suggest what can I do to know the reasons for the crash. Thank
> you.

Mmmm... there's a bug report¹ to request ntpd debugging flag is turned on 
(which I think is a must) but in the meantime I guess you will have to 
recompile the package from Debian sources and toggle this parameter on if 
you want to get an insightful trace.

¹http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=643954

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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