Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 01/21/2015 07:15 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:58:51 Don Armstrong did opine [...] If you're still having trouble, the actual logs will be more helpful. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-miscel laneous That is a decent writeup. Whats chances there is a printable .pdf of it someplace? Try https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install.pdf.en HTH Linux-Fan -- http://masysma.lima-city.de/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
Gene Heskett wrote: I was, I screwed around again last night and set it up again, using gparted, until everybody was happy. So now it looks like this: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ sudo parted /dev/sdb unit s print [sudo] password for gene: Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 4130s 2072384s 2068255s ext4 2 2072385s104470694s 102398310s ext4 3 104470695s 141334694s 36864000slinux-swap(v1) 4 141334695s 1953520064s 1812185370s ext4 gdisk says its ok, has a protective MBR but is using GPT. So probably the thing to do is get another disk, install to it, then copy it all to a good disk. That would at least get it onto this disk without the installers partitioner touching it. Worth the effort? At this point I am not sure. But a 4130 sector start would not be aligned. Aligned would be 4096 for example. None of those seem aligned. Doesn't look happy. Will probably have slow access on a 4k AF drive. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Monday 26 January 2015 21:52:35 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: I was, I screwed around again last night and set it up again, using gparted, until everybody was happy. So now it looks like this: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ sudo parted /dev/sdb unit s print [sudo] password for gene: Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 4130s 2072384s 2068255s ext4 2 2072385s104470694s 102398310s ext4 3 104470695s 141334694s 36864000slinux-swap(v1) 4 141334695s 1953520064s 1812185370s ext4 gdisk says its ok, has a protective MBR but is using GPT. So probably the thing to do is get another disk, install to it, then copy it all to a good disk. That would at least get it onto this disk without the installers partitioner touching it. Worth the effort? At this point I am not sure. But a 4130 sector start would not be aligned. Aligned would be 4096 for example. None of those seem aligned. Doesn't look happy. Will probably have slow access on a 4k AF drive. Bob I played around with it last night, using my old gparted, moving a partition start and end in mebibytes, one at a time, checking with the other partitioners as I did so, and finally wound up with this for parted's output, and even fdisk is happy. gene@coyote:/media$ sudo parted /dev/sdb [sudo] password for gene: GNU Parted 2.2 Using /dev/sdb Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands. (parted) print Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1000GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: msdos Number Start End SizeType File system Flags 1 8225kB 1086MB 1078MB primary ext4boot 2 1086MB 53.5GB 52.4GB primary ext4 3 53.5GB 70.3GB 16.8GB primary linux-swap(v1) 4 70.3GB 1000GB 930GB primary ext4 (parted) Then I sicced mc to copy some of my junk to the newer drive, and exceeded 70 mb/sec on a couple of iso images, so I think it may be usable. We shall see later in the week if the networking settings survived a reboot. This next install has kmail-4.13.5 IIRC. I have copied my email corpus (nearly 6Gb) to the same place on the new drive, and will attempt to copy the kmailrc etc files over and see how bad I can make the newer version crash. I'd hate to have to re-invent all the mail sorting filters from scratch. Call me lazy, but duck. :) I've copied the latest mailfilter-8.3 sources over but have not built or installed it yet, along with its filter rules, which should complete the background mail suckage I use because kmail is single threaded and leaves the composer window frozen while its out doing its own mail suckage, which if there is a huge pile can take quite a few minutes. This way, it may only take 2 or 3 seconds. Thanks for the encouragement Bob, its appreciated. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501262243.11384.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Saturday 24 January 2015 02:17:30 Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 15:41:06 Ric Moore did opine And Gene did reply: On 01/23/2015 03:09 PM, Dom wrote: On 23/01/15 19:21, Joe wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:08:56 -0300 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Might I suggest that we put this to bed? It has long been OT. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501240946.53761.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 05:47:13 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 03:25:42 Gene Heskett wrote: You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi Now be nice Lisi, I was trying to be. In those days, and even yet in Amish country, the horse drawn carriage is the biggest traffic hazard extant. Horses occasionally think they know a better way. Raised on an Iowa farm, I learned 75 years ago that they are not the sharpest tack in the box. Never got the chance to drive a hot Alfa, but was invited to turn a Mercedes 300 SLR loose once, and found it was quite possible to run out of road by the time you snick it into 3rd gear. I had just repaired the radio in it. A Telefunkin of course. Gee, that was almost 60 years ago. In those days I thought nothing of going places sensible angels don't. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501230742.15894.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thursday 22 January 2015 14:52:16 Bob Holtzman did opine And Gene did reply: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 01:15:25AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:58:51 Don Armstrong did opine And Gene did reply: On Tue, 20 Jan 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: and leave you with a miss-aligned disk that writes like its full of molsasses. Fdisk complains, gdisk will fix it, but what good does that do you when there is NO WAY AROUND the partitioner in the installer. Of course there is. In general, the partitioner can just use your existing partitions. If for some reason, you've partitioned your existing partitions in a way that it is unable to figure out, then you can just 1) use expert mode 2) skip the partitioner entirely 3) mount your partitions directly on /target, 4) continue with the install selecting the remaining steps manually in order without rerunning the partitioner. If you're still having trouble, the actual logs will be more helpful. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-mis cel laneous That is a decent writeup. Whats chances there is a printable .pdf of it someplace? Why need a pdf? You should be able to print from your browser or from a word processor in an office suite ( open office or libre office ) or from a light weight processor like abiword. Cheers, Gene Heskett The Brother supplied ppd's for my HL-3170CDW color laser do not strip and reformat html that well. It does quite well on most web jobs, like printing the order ack when I buy something online, but to do a web page is asking a bit much. I have done it, but it usually results in a trip up the hill to saw down some more dead trees to feed it. Thanks Bob. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150133.57982.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:08:56 -0300 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. More like meg sizes... I was thinking that. My ARM-based Archimedes of 1989 had a 40MB drive option, and my first PC in 1996 had a 1G drive, which was typical then. A fresh Windows 95 installation occupied about 25MB... and RiscOS in the 1989 Archimedes was a half-MB ROM. One-second boot. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150123192118.30d63...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 12:42:15 Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 05:47:13 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 03:25:42 Gene Heskett wrote: You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi Now be nice Lisi, I was trying to be. Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. Lisi In those days, and even yet in Amish country, the horse drawn carriage is the biggest traffic hazard extant. Horses occasionally think they know a better way. Raised on an Iowa farm, I learned 75 years ago that they are not the sharpest tack in the box. Never got the chance to drive a hot Alfa, but was invited to turn a Mercedes 300 SLR loose once, and found it was quite possible to run out of road by the time you snick it into 3rd gear. I had just repaired the radio in it. A Telefunkin of course. Gee, that was almost 60 years ago. In those days I thought nothing of going places sensible angels don't. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501231846.04099.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 14:07:30 Brian did opine And Gene did reply: On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 22:33:57 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: The Brother supplied ppd's for my HL-3170CDW color laser do not strip and reformat html that well. It does quite well on most web jobs, like printing the order ack when I buy something online, but to do a web page is asking a bit much. I have done it, but it usually results in a trip up the hill to saw down some more dead trees to feed it. There isn't a PPD in existence which strips and reformats html. Even Alice would wonder about your statement. Whatever. Often images are replaced with the base 64 that generated them, at a huge waste of paper. Web composers ALWAYS waste a page putting their credits on a separate page etc. I once tried to print a web page that was 2 screens high, had to reboot to kill the job as it was then 10 pages of base64 on the output tray. But in fairness to Brother, that was when I was making one last attempt to use an Epson ink squirter, but at $100 to refill it every 200 pages, I got religion and bought a laser, 2 of them in fact. I will lay this problem entirely on the web composers desk, he has no clue about proper mimetyping. They don't care whether its rfc compliant or not as long as it works with their particular copy of exploder on a windows box. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501231435.57979.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Fri 23 Jan 2015 at 14:24:45 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 13:46:04 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 12:42:15 Gene Heskett wrote: Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi Now be nice Lisi, I was trying to be. Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. Lisi You are late to the party Lisi, and I still have several MFM interface 10 and 20 megabyte Tandon drives that did function the last time they were powered up. They were on my office CoCo3 when I was the CE at WDTV. My own first hard drive here at home, also on a coco3, was a 30 megger. No partitions needed there, but when we started using Amiga's for gfx at the tv station, we did partition them to separate the OS stuffs from the production stuff. That was in '87 or '88 IIRC. That goes a long way to solving the self-inflicted problem you wrote to -user about. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23012015193856.484e20209...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 01/23/2015 03:09 PM, Dom wrote: On 23/01/15 19:21, Joe wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:08:56 -0300 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. More like meg sizes... I was thinking that. My ARM-based Archimedes of 1989 had a 40MB drive option, and my first PC in 1996 had a 1G drive, which was typical then. A fresh Windows 95 installation occupied about 25MB... and RiscOS in the 1989 Archimedes was a half-MB ROM. One-second boot. My Archimedes originally only had the 800MB floppy, then upgraded to a 20MB HDD and shortly after to a 105MB SCSI HDD. Then I upgraded my BBC B to a 42MB HDD :) Online Uncle Al once wrote that Canada was where all the 40 meg hard drives went. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c2b1e2.5050...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 22:33:57 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: The Brother supplied ppd's for my HL-3170CDW color laser do not strip and reformat html that well. It does quite well on most web jobs, like printing the order ack when I buy something online, but to do a web page is asking a bit much. I have done it, but it usually results in a trip up the hill to saw down some more dead trees to feed it. There isn't a PPD in existence which strips and reformats html. Even Alice would wonder about your statement. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23012015190410.f296395c0...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Fri 23 Jan 2015 at 18:46:04 +, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 12:42:15 Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 05:47:13 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 03:25:42 Gene Heskett wrote: You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi Now be nice Lisi, I was trying to be. Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. You don't have to be nice. It is sufficient to be correct and address technical matters based on their merits. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23012015191012.9109e4dcf...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 13:46:04 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 12:42:15 Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 05:47:13 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 03:25:42 Gene Heskett wrote: You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi Now be nice Lisi, I was trying to be. Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. Lisi You are late to the party Lisi, and I still have several MFM interface 10 and 20 megabyte Tandon drives that did function the last time they were powered up. They were on my office CoCo3 when I was the CE at WDTV. My own first hard drive here at home, also on a coco3, was a 30 megger. No partitions needed there, but when we started using Amiga's for gfx at the tv station, we did partition them to separate the OS stuffs from the production stuff. That was in '87 or '88 IIRC. In those days, and even yet in Amish country, the horse drawn carriage is the biggest traffic hazard extant. Horses occasionally think they know a better way. Raised on an Iowa farm, I learned 75 years ago that they are not the sharpest tack in the box. Never got the chance to drive a hot Alfa, but was invited to turn a Mercedes 300 SLR loose once, and found it was quite possible to run out of road by the time you snick it into 3rd gear. I had just repaired the radio in it. A Telefunkin of course. Gee, that was almost 60 years ago. In those days I thought nothing of going places sensible angels don't. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501231424.45578.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 19:24:45 Gene Heskett wrote: You are late to the party Lisi, Sorry, Gene. I find you very hard to follow. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501232019.48059.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 23/01/15 19:21, Joe wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:08:56 -0300 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. More like meg sizes... I was thinking that. My ARM-based Archimedes of 1989 had a 40MB drive option, and my first PC in 1996 had a 1G drive, which was typical then. A fresh Windows 95 installation occupied about 25MB... and RiscOS in the 1989 Archimedes was a half-MB ROM. One-second boot. My Archimedes originally only had the 800MB floppy, then upgraded to a 20MB HDD and shortly after to a 105MB SCSI HDD. Then I upgraded my BBC B to a 42MB HDD :) -- Dom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c2aa8d.3020...@rpdom.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Fri 23 Jan 2015 at 14:35:57 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Friday 23 January 2015 14:07:30 Brian did opine And Gene did reply: On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 22:33:57 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: The Brother supplied ppd's for my HL-3170CDW color laser do not strip and reformat html that well. It does quite well on most web jobs, like printing the order ack when I buy something online, but to do a web page is asking a bit much. I have done it, but it usually results in a trip up the hill to saw down some more dead trees to feed it. There isn't a PPD in existence which strips and reformats html. Even Alice would wonder about your statement. Whatever. Often images are replaced with the base 64 that generated them, There is no whatever about it. You are completely and utterly wrong in your view of what the printing system does. I wouldn't mind if you said Why's that, please explain or That looks interesting or I've never looked at it in that way before. Or even, You are mistaken. Here is why. Instead, you spout inconsequential historical generalities (which deserve to be snipped). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23012015194917.e2cbeb37a...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Touché. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. More like meg sizes... Cheers, Ron. -- Non omnia possumus omnes. -- Publius Vergilius Maro -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150123160856.32cb2...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 15:19:48 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Friday 23 January 2015 19:24:45 Gene Heskett wrote: You are late to the party Lisi, Sorry, Gene. I find you very hard to follow. Lisi Sorry Lisi. My arthritic fingers have slowed more than my brain, and they sometimes leave out half a sentence or more trying to play catchup. Makes a semi-usable excuse anyway. :( Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501232114.51497.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 15:41:06 Ric Moore did opine And Gene did reply: On 01/23/2015 03:09 PM, Dom wrote: On 23/01/15 19:21, Joe wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:08:56 -0300 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 18:46:04 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Touchأ©. :-( Yes, that wasn't very nice. But one can hardly compare 1985 with now! Hard drives were in single figure gig sizes. More like meg sizes... I was thinking that. My ARM-based Archimedes of 1989 had a 40MB drive option, and my first PC in 1996 had a 1G drive, which was typical then. A fresh Windows 95 installation occupied about 25MB... and RiscOS in the 1989 Archimedes was a half-MB ROM. One-second boot. My Archimedes originally only had the 800MB floppy, then upgraded to a 20MB HDD and shortly after to a 105MB SCSI HDD. Then I upgraded my BBC B to a 42MB HDD :) Online Uncle Al once wrote that Canada was where all the 40 meg hard drives went. :) Ric I don't recall that I ever had the experience of reading his output, Ric. How far back up the log was that? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501232117.30912.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 07:26:02PM +, Brian wrote: On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 13:31:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Thursday 22 January 2015 09:42:13 Gary Dale did opine 50G for swap?! The partitioner that sets this up previously setup a bit over 2x the memory, 18Gb for swap, then surveyed the system and found 2 more swaps, dutifully adding then to the /etc/fstab it wrote. So at that point I had nearly 50Gb of swap available in 3 pieces/drives. dutifully means d-i did what you told it to do. You could tell it not to use some partitions. You can even tell it how much swap to use. You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? [Snip] Removing the boot partition removes the guarantee that boot related files will be within reach of the bios. However, 50Gb is out of line as I have been using 1Gb for years, which has all sorts of cruft I haven't used in yonks in it. So I'll likely fix that and slide the rest of it back out before I put another install disk in the optical drive. I wish I could understood this; particularly the first sentence. BIOS has numerous limits on how far into the disk the first sector can tell it to jump to find the OS. If the first sector tells the BIOS that the bootloader is beyond what the BIOS can address, then the computer is unbootable. One solution to this is to have a small /boot partition near the start of the disk to hold the bootloader files. The bootloader can then use the full capabilities of the system to search deeper into the disk. Another alternative is to use an intermediate loader, store that in the pre-partition gap at the start of the disk and then use that to find the full bootloader. This is what grub does. Stage 1 is the BIOS-limited first sector. Stage 1.5 is stored in the ~1Mb gap before the first sector and Stage 2 is stored in /boot. As a result, grub can, in theory, boot a single-partition OS, even if the /boot files are several terabytes down the disk. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/22012015191626.e039c4128...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Friday 23 January 2015 03:25:42 Gene Heskett wrote: You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) No doubt long experienced drivers of horse drawn carriages thought that they were well qualified to drive an Alfa Romeo 6C at full speeed. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501231047.13830.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 21/01/15 08:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 21 January 2015 16:29:45 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I might suggest that fdisk hasn't kept up and isn't the best tool for the task these days. It may be getting confused by the newer partition tables. This may be causing it to emit bad information. In many ways I don't like parted but I think it handles the new formats best. parted /dev/sda unit s print URL for the bug reporter? Here you go. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ Thanks. gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 Bob Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. Cheers, Gene Heskett 50G for swap?! I also question having a separate /boot partition - especially one larger than 50G. I used to use one before mdadm RAID could boot from RAID 5, but these days I don't bother. It's just something that either wastes space or that can fill up and cause problems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c10c45.5030...@torfree.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thursday 22 January 2015 09:42:13 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 21/01/15 08:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 21 January 2015 16:29:45 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I might suggest that fdisk hasn't kept up and isn't the best tool for the task these days. It may be getting confused by the newer partition tables. This may be causing it to emit bad information. In many ways I don't like parted but I think it handles the new formats best. parted /dev/sda unit s print URL for the bug reporter? Here you go. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ Thanks. gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 Bob Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. Cheers, Gene Heskett 50G for swap?! The partitioner that sets this up previously setup a bit over 2x the memory, 18Gb for swap, then surveyed the system and found 2 more swaps, dutifully adding then to the /etc/fstab it wrote. So at that point I had nearly 50Gb of swap available in 3 pieces/drives. I also question having a separate /boot partition - especially one larger than 50G. I used to use one before mdadm RAID could boot from RAID 5, but these days I don't bother. It's just something that either wastes space or that can fill up and cause problems. In a production environment, raid is ok if you can dedicate at least 5 drives, we have an older centos setup at the tv station with its data array a 5 drive lashup, scary fast, but also quite complex to setup and maintain. For some reason (they are very well cooled) the drive life seems to be limited to less than a year of 24/7 uptimes. So the last time Jim bought drives for it, he bought a 12 pack about 3 years ago. And they took that as a hint, and only 1 has failed since. OTOH, the drive I use for amanda now has 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000 Old_age Always - 43534 on it, and has not recorded an error as I have its self-test enabled. So it would email me for a sneeze. Except the test log ends at about half is spin up hours, so I wonder to myself when that was disabled. I just initiated a -t long since the drive will not see any activity again for about 14 hours. I wonder it it ran out of buffer space at 21 reports? Back on the thread.. Can linux now be booted as of old, with its vmlinuz file 3.5 Terrabytes in from the start of the disk? That implies a bios a lot bigger smarter than what was available at the time, circa 2007 or so, when I bought this Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe board, with a 2.1 GHz phenom, and built this machine. Removing the boot partition removes the guarantee that boot related files will be within reach of the bios. However, 50Gb is out of line as I have been using 1Gb for years, which has all sorts of cruft I haven't used in yonks in it. So I'll likely fix that and slide the rest of it back out before I put another install disk in the optical drive. Thanks Gary. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501221331.36758.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thursday 22 January 2015 01:59:39 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I assume the above links to the below: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 But that wasn't created by the debian-installer. That partition scheme must have been created by some other tool. The Wheezy debian-installer will create this following type of layout from this example system. Number Start EndSize Type File system Flags 1 2048s 999423s997376sprimary ext2 2 999424s17000447s 16001024s primary linux-swap(v1) 3 17002494s 78163967s 61161474s extended 5 17002496s 78163967s 61161472s logical ext4 Note that partitions sda1, sda2, and sda5 are all aligned properly for AF 4k drives. Note that sda1 is /boot but the debian-installer does not set the boot flag. The first partition sda1 will start at sector 2048. All of these are different from what you show. Therefore it must have been created by a different tool. I was, I screwed around again last night and set it up again, using gparted, until everybody was happy. So now it looks like this: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ sudo parted /dev/sdb unit s print [sudo] password for gene: Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 4130s 2072384s 2068255s ext4 2 2072385s104470694s 102398310s ext4 3 104470695s 141334694s 36864000slinux-swap(v1) 4 141334695s 1953520064s 1812185370s ext4 gdisk says its ok, has a protective MBR but is using GPT. So probably the thing to do is get another disk, install to it, then copy it all to a good disk. That would at least get it onto this disk without the installers partitioner touching it. Worth the effort? At this point I am not sure. Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. If it wasn't you and it wasn't the debian-installer then it must have been someone else. Someone must have repartitioned those when you weren't looking. Do you have a cat? I always suspect the cat. :-) Bob Nah, she was 20 something and toothless, so we had her take a long nap about 3 years ago. So much as I'd like to, I can't blame it on the cat. The woof has COPD, and no longer can care for a pet. I might get a dog again if she falls over first. We had a Sheltie for about 10 years, excellent pet but the short life surprised us both. I still catch myself setting a cereal or ice cream bowl on the floor for him to cleanup, 10+ years later. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501220750.51269.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 21/01/15 01:09 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:17:59 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Wednesday 21 January 2015 00:02:41 Gene Heskett wrote: If there is a way, then maybe I'll try it again, but give me step by step I can printout and follow when there is no one in the room, or available via the net. Since the problem seems to be unique to you, perhaps your installation media are faulty? I assume you checked? Which CD/DVD did you use? I have never had any difficulty using existing partitions and just assigning them, and formatting or not at my choice, and have installed wheezy quite often, both using existing partitions and creating new ones. I don't have a spare computer on which to install Wheezy at the moment, to give you your step by step directions. I am about to install Jessie, but that might be different. Anyway, if you have it installed, perhaps you could just live with it. Lisi Not installed Lisi, I tried to fix the miss-alignment with gdisk, and it blew the install away. It of course has big red warning signs, so I wasn't surprised. What did you expect? If you change the partition start point, the superblock won't be in the correct location. Now I have partitioned and formatted the drive again, making sure that everytime it auto-checks round to cylinders, I turn it off, and gdisk is happy as a clam. I will try another install tomorrow. Then, checking with fdisk, only the first partition was visible, and it was the whole drive. WTH?? Because gdisk uses GPT while fdisk only knows about the older MBR partitioning scheme. e2fsck bombed on any formatted but partition I sicced it after, so gparted is busy reformatting it yet again. 50Gb /boot, 50Gb swap, 50Gb /, and the remainder as /home. Cheers, Gene Heskett Again, 50G for /boot and swap is just way too large. I have 16G of RAM and my swap file hardly gets touched. I prefer keeping /boot as part of / and doing without a swap partition. A swap file is similar in speed and easier to adjust if needed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c10de6.6020...@torfree.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thursday 22 January 2015 19:26:02 Brian wrote: Removing the boot partition removes the guarantee that boot related files will be within reach of the bios. However, 50Gb is out of line as I have been using 1Gb for years, which has all sorts of cruft I haven't used in yonks in it. So I'll likely fix that and slide the rest of it back out before I put another install disk in the optical drive. I wish I could understood this; particularly the first sentence. You're too young, Brian... ;-) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501222343.02427.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thursday 22 January 2015 14:26:02 Brian did opine And Gene did reply: On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 13:31:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Thursday 22 January 2015 09:42:13 Gary Dale did opine 50G for swap?! The partitioner that sets this up previously setup a bit over 2x the memory, 18Gb for swap, then surveyed the system and found 2 more swaps, dutifully adding then to the /etc/fstab it wrote. So at that point I had nearly 50Gb of swap available in 3 pieces/drives. dutifully means d-i did what you told it to do. You could tell it not to use some partitions. You can even tell it how much swap to use. You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? Not really, I have only been doing it since 1985 or 6. :) [Snip] Removing the boot partition removes the guarantee that boot related files will be within reach of the bios. However, 50Gb is out of line as I have been using 1Gb for years, which has all sorts of cruft I haven't used in yonks in it. So I'll likely fix that and slide the rest of it back out before I put another install disk in the optical drive. I wish I could understood this; particularly the first sentence. Sounds to me like you need to go talk to an old timer. Have you got a Sid Dabster lookalike around your place? He would be a good start. Longer white beard than mine, and a coffee cup super-glued to his right hand. Old bios could not reach more that 10 megs into the drive to get their boot stuffs. Then they worked on it in the late 90's and made it capable of reaching 1000 cylinders in, and IIRC it was about 10 years ago when I put a new biostar board together and found it could reach farther than that. Most of the 64 bit bios's have now blown that limit out to 4GB or past it IIRC. That is a guess of course, a SWAG if you will, as I haven't studied or tested recently, like since 2007 or 2008. If it doesn't get in my way, its not a problem, right? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150125.42097.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 13:31:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Thursday 22 January 2015 09:42:13 Gary Dale did opine 50G for swap?! The partitioner that sets this up previously setup a bit over 2x the memory, 18Gb for swap, then surveyed the system and found 2 more swaps, dutifully adding then to the /etc/fstab it wrote. So at that point I had nearly 50Gb of swap available in 3 pieces/drives. dutifully means d-i did what you told it to do. You could tell it not to use some partitions. You can even tell it how much swap to use. You haven't a clue what you are doing when you are partitioning, have you? [Snip] Removing the boot partition removes the guarantee that boot related files will be within reach of the bios. However, 50Gb is out of line as I have been using 1Gb for years, which has all sorts of cruft I haven't used in yonks in it. So I'll likely fix that and slide the rest of it back out before I put another install disk in the optical drive. I wish I could understood this; particularly the first sentence. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/22012015191626.e039c4128...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 01:15:25AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:58:51 Don Armstrong did opine And Gene did reply: On Tue, 20 Jan 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: and leave you with a miss-aligned disk that writes like its full of molsasses. Fdisk complains, gdisk will fix it, but what good does that do you when there is NO WAY AROUND the partitioner in the installer. Of course there is. In general, the partitioner can just use your existing partitions. If for some reason, you've partitioned your existing partitions in a way that it is unable to figure out, then you can just 1) use expert mode 2) skip the partitioner entirely 3) mount your partitions directly on /target, 4) continue with the install selecting the remaining steps manually in order without rerunning the partitioner. If you're still having trouble, the actual logs will be more helpful. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-miscel laneous That is a decent writeup. Whats chances there is a printable .pdf of it someplace? Why need a pdf? You should be able to print from your browser or from a word processor in an office suite ( open office or libre office ) or from a light weight processor like abiword. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501210115.25334.ghesk...@wdtv.com -- Bob Holtzman Giant intergalactic brain-sucking hyperbacteria came to Earth to rape our women and create a race of mindless zombies. Look! It's working! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150122195216.gb11...@cox.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Thu 22 Jan 2015 at 12:52:16 -0700, Bob Holtzman wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 01:15:25AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: That is a decent writeup. Whats chances there is a printable .pdf of it someplace? Why need a pdf? You should be able to print from your browser or from a word processor in an office suite ( open office or libre office ) or from a light weight processor like abiword. The probability of finding a PDF on the Debian web site is 1. Who knows? The OP might look there, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/22012015201723.969588b3f...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
Gene Heskett wrote: Andrew M.A. Cater did opine The wheezy installer _ought_ to work with a 4K disk - fdisk will normally work - but ... It will work, poorly, giving ass-aligned disk that will be slow, or slower. You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 21/01/15 04:29 PM, Bob Proulx wrote: Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I might suggest that fdisk hasn't kept up and isn't the best tool for the task these days. It may be getting confused by the newer partition tables. This may be causing it to emit bad information. In many ways I don't like parted but I think it handles the new formats best. parted /dev/sda unit s print URL for the bug reporter? Here you go. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ Bob The big problem with fdisk is that it doesn't use GPT. However it is as capable of providing proper alignment as gdisk and parted. My preference is for gdisk because it is easy to use - especially if you are familiar with fdisk. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c027b3.6050...@torfree.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wednesday 21 January 2015 13:18:25 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: Andrew M.A. Cater did opine The wheezy installer _ought_ to work with a 4K disk - fdisk will normally work - but ... It will work, poorly, giving ass-aligned disk that will be slow, or slower. You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Bob Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. URL for the bug reporter? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501211438.46276.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I might suggest that fdisk hasn't kept up and isn't the best tool for the task these days. It may be getting confused by the newer partition tables. This may be causing it to emit bad information. In many ways I don't like parted but I think it handles the new formats best. parted /dev/sda unit s print URL for the bug reporter? Here you go. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 20/01/15 06:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 13:03:50 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. I'll nominate that for the understatement of the decade. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. No problem selecting the ext4 filesystem, but it was not possible to remove the Do Not Use string. One could hilite it, which turned the red text blue, but nothing else could be done to it. I finally just let it do as it pleased, because selecting a separate /home partition just put me in a loop that went around 3 times before I said tohell with it, its gonna do it its way or hit the road jack. So what it did do is broken: gene@coyote:/boot$ sudo gdisk /dev/sdb [sudo] password for gene: GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.5.1 Partition table scan: MBR: MBR only BSD: not present APM: not present GPT: not present *** Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format. THIS OPERATON IS POTENTIALLY DESTRUCTIVE! Exit by typing 'q' if you don't want to convert your MBR partitions to GPT format! *** Command (? for help): pDisk /dev/sdb: 1953525168 sectors, 931.5 GiB Disk identifier (GUID): 5B8BD148-8604-0C54-28D4-BA5816BF1F23 Partition table holds up to 128 entries First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 1953525134 Total free space is 7533 sectors (3.7 MiB) Number Start (sector)End (sector) Size Code Name 1204819531775 9.3 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data 51953382453078015 16.0 GiB8200 Linux swap 653080064 1953523711 906.2 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data Command (? for help): w Which it did, supposedly fixing the alignment issues. Unfortunately, it also made the drive disappear entirely. /dev/sdc1: UUID=1321fc90-ba7a-4742-8176-f7b3a8284be5 TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdc2: LABEL=amandatapes-1-T UUID=b7657920-d9a2-4379- ae21-08a0651b65cc SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda1: LABEL=ububoot UUID=f54ba7af-1545-43f3-a86e-bfc0017b4526 SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda2: LABEL=uburoot UUID=ec677e9c-6be6-4311-b97b-3889d42ce6ef TYPE=ext4 /dev/sda3: UUID=edc2880e-257d-4521-8220-0df5b57dcae4 TYPE=swap /dev/sdd1: LABEL=home2 UUID=7601432d-7a30-42a3-80b5-57f08ae71f2a TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdd2: LABEL=opt2 UUID=748b01e1-ae7b-4b17-b8e9-c88429bcefbf TYPE=ext4 Since its in a quick change cage, as /dev/sdb, plz note its missing above. My elderly copy of gparted, 5.something, can find it, but cannot initiate a write operation, it all fails. So a broken install that took about 9 hours since I had to ok every thing it wanted to do, is now history. I am not going back to fedora as I detest being a damned guinea pig in a cage, serving as a lab rat, who if killed, just gets replaced by another. They officially don't have a quarter to call someone who might care. And I had the impression there might be more than the 5 or so that have replied to me in the last week or so. To those folks, a thank you and a tip of my hat. I have no clue what to look at next, but 2 broken wheezy installs destroyed is enough. Maybe someone on the emc list I cc:'d here has a better idea. Cheers, Gene Heskett It seems apparent that you don't understand how to use the installer. You seem to be trying to do the wrong things with the installer options. You can remove options from the list. You can only select the one you want. If you have selected Ext4 then the Do not use option is no
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wednesday 21 January 2015 21:29:45 Bob Proulx wrote: What problem are you seeing? Details? PEBCAK, but he won't accept it, so he won't try to understand what to do. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501212328.43350.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wednesday 21 January 2015 15:40:02 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 06:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 13:03:50 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. I'll nominate that for the understatement of the decade. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. No problem selecting the ext4 filesystem, but it was not possible to remove the Do Not Use string. One could hilite it, which turned the red text blue, but nothing else could be done to it. I finally just let it do as it pleased, because selecting a separate /home partition just put me in a loop that went around 3 times before I said tohell with it, its gonna do it its way or hit the road jack. So what it did do is broken: gene@coyote:/boot$ sudo gdisk /dev/sdb [sudo] password for gene: GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.5.1 Partition table scan: MBR: MBR only BSD: not present APM: not present GPT: not present *** Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format. THIS OPERATON IS POTENTIALLY DESTRUCTIVE! Exit by typing 'q' if you don't want to convert your MBR partitions to GPT format! *** Command (? for help): pDisk /dev/sdb: 1953525168 sectors, 931.5 GiB Disk identifier (GUID): 5B8BD148-8604-0C54-28D4-BA5816BF1F23 Partition table holds up to 128 entries First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 1953525134 Total free space is 7533 sectors (3.7 MiB) Number Start (sector)End (sector) Size Code Name 1204819531775 9.3 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data 51953382453078015 16.0 GiB8200 Linux swap 653080064 1953523711 906.2 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data Command (? for help): w Which it did, supposedly fixing the alignment issues. Unfortunately, it also made the drive disappear entirely. /dev/sdc1: UUID=1321fc90-ba7a-4742-8176-f7b3a8284be5 TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdc2: LABEL=amandatapes-1-T UUID=b7657920-d9a2-4379- ae21-08a0651b65cc SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda1: LABEL=ububoot UUID=f54ba7af-1545-43f3-a86e-bfc0017b4526 SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda2: LABEL=uburoot UUID=ec677e9c-6be6-4311-b97b-3889d42ce6ef TYPE=ext4 /dev/sda3: UUID=edc2880e-257d-4521-8220-0df5b57dcae4 TYPE=swap /dev/sdd1: LABEL=home2 UUID=7601432d-7a30-42a3-80b5-57f08ae71f2a TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdd2: LABEL=opt2 UUID=748b01e1-ae7b-4b17-b8e9-c88429bcefbf TYPE=ext4 Since its in a quick change cage, as /dev/sdb, plz note its missing above. My elderly copy of gparted, 5.something, can find it, but cannot initiate a write operation, it all fails. So a broken install that took about 9 hours since I had to ok every thing it wanted to do, is now history. I am not going back to fedora as I detest being a damned guinea pig in a cage, serving as a lab rat, who if killed, just gets replaced by another. They officially don't have a quarter to call someone who might care. And I had the impression there might be more than the 5 or so that have replied to me in the last week or so. To those folks, a thank you and a tip of my hat. I have no clue what to look at next, but 2 broken wheezy installs destroyed is enough. Maybe someone on
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wednesday 21 January 2015 16:29:45 Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine You seem to believe that the Wheezy debian-installer does not handle the new Advanced Format 4k sectors. However I use it all of the time with 4k sectors and it works fine. There is no known problem using the Wheezy debian-installer to install onto AF 4k sector devices. Sorry but I believe you are mistaken on this issue. If you find the debian-install mishandling 4k sector devices please file a bug report with sufficient information to debug the problem. Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I might suggest that fdisk hasn't kept up and isn't the best tool for the task these days. It may be getting confused by the newer partition tables. This may be causing it to emit bad information. In many ways I don't like parted but I think it handles the new formats best. parted /dev/sda unit s print URL for the bug reporter? Here you go. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ Thanks. gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 Bob Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501212036.11363.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 22/01/15 01:36, Gene Heskett wrote: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 Bob Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. So how big do you think 102,400,000 x 512-byte logical sectors is? I make it 50G. -- Dom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54c0969b.8070...@rpdom.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 21/01/15 08:15 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 21 January 2015 15:40:02 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 06:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 13:03:50 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. I'll nominate that for the understatement of the decade. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. No problem selecting the ext4 filesystem, but it was not possible to remove the Do Not Use string. One could hilite it, which turned the red text blue, but nothing else could be done to it. I finally just let it do as it pleased, because selecting a separate /home partition just put me in a loop that went around 3 times before I said tohell with it, its gonna do it its way or hit the road jack. So what it did do is broken: gene@coyote:/boot$ sudo gdisk /dev/sdb [sudo] password for gene: GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.5.1 Partition table scan: MBR: MBR only BSD: not present APM: not present GPT: not present *** Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format. THIS OPERATON IS POTENTIALLY DESTRUCTIVE! Exit by typing 'q' if you don't want to convert your MBR partitions to GPT format! *** Command (? for help): pDisk /dev/sdb: 1953525168 sectors, 931.5 GiB Disk identifier (GUID): 5B8BD148-8604-0C54-28D4-BA5816BF1F23 Partition table holds up to 128 entries First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 1953525134 Total free space is 7533 sectors (3.7 MiB) Number Start (sector)End (sector) Size Code Name 1204819531775 9.3 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data 51953382453078015 16.0 GiB8200 Linux swap 653080064 1953523711 906.2 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data Command (? for help): w Which it did, supposedly fixing the alignment issues. Unfortunately, it also made the drive disappear entirely. /dev/sdc1: UUID=1321fc90-ba7a-4742-8176-f7b3a8284be5 TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdc2: LABEL=amandatapes-1-T UUID=b7657920-d9a2-4379- ae21-08a0651b65cc SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda1: LABEL=ububoot UUID=f54ba7af-1545-43f3-a86e-bfc0017b4526 SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda2: LABEL=uburoot UUID=ec677e9c-6be6-4311-b97b-3889d42ce6ef TYPE=ext4 /dev/sda3: UUID=edc2880e-257d-4521-8220-0df5b57dcae4 TYPE=swap /dev/sdd1: LABEL=home2 UUID=7601432d-7a30-42a3-80b5-57f08ae71f2a TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdd2: LABEL=opt2 UUID=748b01e1-ae7b-4b17-b8e9-c88429bcefbf TYPE=ext4 Since its in a quick change cage, as /dev/sdb, plz note its missing above. My elderly copy of gparted, 5.something, can find it, but cannot initiate a write operation, it all fails. So a broken install that took about 9 hours since I had to ok every thing it wanted to do, is now history. I am not going back to fedora as I detest being a damned guinea pig in a cage, serving as a lab rat, who if killed, just gets replaced by another. They officially don't have a quarter to call someone who might care. And I had the impression there might be more than the 5 or so that have replied to me in the last week or so. To those folks, a thank you and a tip of my hat. I have no clue what to look at next, but 2 broken wheezy installs destroyed is enough. Maybe someone on the emc list I cc:'d here has a better idea. Cheers, Gene Heskett It seems apparent that you don't understand how to use the installer. You seem to be trying to do the wrong things with the installer
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
Gene Heskett wrote: Bob Proulx did opine And Gene did reply: Go ahead and install its way, then run an fdisk -l and read the result, confirmed by quite slow readings from hdparm -tT on the drive you just installed it to. What problem are you seeing? Details? I assume the above links to the below: gene@coyote:~/Downloads$ parted /dev/sdb unit s print WARNING: You are not superuser. Watch out for permissions. Model: ATA ST1000VX000-1CU1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 1953525168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 16384s 112656383s 11264s ext4 boot 2 112656384s 215056383s 10240s linux-swap(v1) 3 215062155s 317460464s 102398310s ext4 4 317460465s 1953520064s 1636059600s ext4 But that wasn't created by the debian-installer. That partition scheme must have been created by some other tool. The Wheezy debian-installer will create this following type of layout from this example system. Number Start EndSize Type File system Flags 1 2048s 999423s997376sprimary ext2 2 999424s17000447s 16001024s primary linux-swap(v1) 3 17002494s 78163967s 61161474s extended 5 17002496s 78163967s 61161472s logical ext4 Note that partitions sda1, sda2, and sda5 are all aligned properly for AF 4k drives. Note that sda1 is /boot but the debian-installer does not set the boot flag. The first partition sda1 will start at sector 2048. All of these are different from what you show. Therefore it must have been created by a different tool. Which it is not complaining about. BUT that is not how I spent an hour partitioning it last night, zero resemblance, partitions 2 3 were specced with 50G's for swap and /, the last, big one is /home. If it wasn't you and it wasn't the debian-installer then it must have been someone else. Someone must have repartitioned those when you weren't looking. Do you have a cat? I always suspect the cat. :-) Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:58:51 Don Armstrong did opine And Gene did reply: On Tue, 20 Jan 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: and leave you with a miss-aligned disk that writes like its full of molsasses. Fdisk complains, gdisk will fix it, but what good does that do you when there is NO WAY AROUND the partitioner in the installer. Of course there is. In general, the partitioner can just use your existing partitions. If for some reason, you've partitioned your existing partitions in a way that it is unable to figure out, then you can just 1) use expert mode 2) skip the partitioner entirely 3) mount your partitions directly on /target, 4) continue with the install selecting the remaining steps manually in order without rerunning the partitioner. If you're still having trouble, the actual logs will be more helpful. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-miscel laneous That is a decent writeup. Whats chances there is a printable .pdf of it someplace? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501210115.25334.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 19:17:59 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Wednesday 21 January 2015 00:02:41 Gene Heskett wrote: If there is a way, then maybe I'll try it again, but give me step by step I can printout and follow when there is no one in the room, or available via the net. Since the problem seems to be unique to you, perhaps your installation media are faulty? I assume you checked? Which CD/DVD did you use? I have never had any difficulty using existing partitions and just assigning them, and formatting or not at my choice, and have installed wheezy quite often, both using existing partitions and creating new ones. I don't have a spare computer on which to install Wheezy at the moment, to give you your step by step directions. I am about to install Jessie, but that might be different. Anyway, if you have it installed, perhaps you could just live with it. Lisi Not installed Lisi, I tried to fix the miss-alignment with gdisk, and it blew the install away. It of course has big red warning signs, so I wasn't surprised. Now I have partitioned and formatted the drive again, making sure that everytime it auto-checks round to cylinders, I turn it off, and gdisk is happy as a clam. I will try another install tomorrow. Then, checking with fdisk, only the first partition was visible, and it was the whole drive. WTH?? e2fsck bombed on any formatted but partition I sicced it after, so gparted is busy reformatting it yet again. 50Gb /boot, 50Gb swap, 50Gb /, and the remainder as /home. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501210109.35274.ghesk...@wdtv.com
So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501200937.30511.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 14:37:30 Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 Doesn't exist. Do you mean 7.8? And which disk? install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. Don't bypass it. Use it. Just tell it what you want it to do, and it will do it. You need at the very least to allocate the partitions. You don't have to create or format them. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? There isn't a problem with the Wheezy partitioner. You can use it or not as you choose. See my comment above. Sorry, Gene. This really does look like PEBKAC. The partitioner is fine. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501201833.43479.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54be9886.4020...@torfree.net
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Wednesday 21 January 2015 00:02:41 Gene Heskett wrote: If there is a way, then maybe I'll try it again, but give me step by step I can printout and follow when there is no one in the room, or available via the net. Since the problem seems to be unique to you, perhaps your installation media are faulty? I assume you checked? Which CD/DVD did you use? I have never had any difficulty using existing partitions and just assigning them, and formatting or not at my choice, and have installed wheezy quite often, both using existing partitions and creating new ones. I don't have a spare computer on which to install Wheezy at the moment, to give you your step by step directions. I am about to install Jessie, but that might be different. Anyway, if you have it installed, perhaps you could just live with it. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501210017.59621.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 13:03:50 Gary Dale did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. I'll nominate that for the understatement of the decade. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. No problem selecting the ext4 filesystem, but it was not possible to remove the Do Not Use string. One could hilite it, which turned the red text blue, but nothing else could be done to it. I finally just let it do as it pleased, because selecting a separate /home partition just put me in a loop that went around 3 times before I said tohell with it, its gonna do it its way or hit the road jack. So what it did do is broken: gene@coyote:/boot$ sudo gdisk /dev/sdb [sudo] password for gene: GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.5.1 Partition table scan: MBR: MBR only BSD: not present APM: not present GPT: not present *** Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format. THIS OPERATON IS POTENTIALLY DESTRUCTIVE! Exit by typing 'q' if you don't want to convert your MBR partitions to GPT format! *** Command (? for help): pDisk /dev/sdb: 1953525168 sectors, 931.5 GiB Disk identifier (GUID): 5B8BD148-8604-0C54-28D4-BA5816BF1F23 Partition table holds up to 128 entries First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 1953525134 Total free space is 7533 sectors (3.7 MiB) Number Start (sector)End (sector) Size Code Name 1204819531775 9.3 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data 51953382453078015 16.0 GiB8200 Linux swap 653080064 1953523711 906.2 GiB 0700 Linux/Windows data Command (? for help): w Which it did, supposedly fixing the alignment issues. Unfortunately, it also made the drive disappear entirely. /dev/sdc1: UUID=1321fc90-ba7a-4742-8176-f7b3a8284be5 TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdc2: LABEL=amandatapes-1-T UUID=b7657920-d9a2-4379- ae21-08a0651b65cc SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda1: LABEL=ububoot UUID=f54ba7af-1545-43f3-a86e-bfc0017b4526 SEC_TYPE=ext2 TYPE=ext3 /dev/sda2: LABEL=uburoot UUID=ec677e9c-6be6-4311-b97b-3889d42ce6ef TYPE=ext4 /dev/sda3: UUID=edc2880e-257d-4521-8220-0df5b57dcae4 TYPE=swap /dev/sdd1: LABEL=home2 UUID=7601432d-7a30-42a3-80b5-57f08ae71f2a TYPE=ext4 /dev/sdd2: LABEL=opt2 UUID=748b01e1-ae7b-4b17-b8e9-c88429bcefbf TYPE=ext4 Since its in a quick change cage, as /dev/sdb, plz note its missing above. My elderly copy of gparted, 5.something, can find it, but cannot initiate a write operation, it all fails. So a broken install that took about 9 hours since I had to ok every thing it wanted to do, is now history. I am not going back to fedora as I detest being a damned guinea pig in a cage, serving as a lab rat, who if killed, just gets replaced by another. They officially don't have a quarter to call someone who might care. And I had the impression there might be more than the 5 or so that have replied to me in the last week or so. To those folks, a thank you and a tip of my hat. I have no clue what to look at next, but 2 broken wheezy installs destroyed is enough. Maybe someone on the emc list I cc:'d here has a better idea. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On 20/01/2015 15:40, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. I'm not sure I understand the latter sentence correctly but in doubt : Mount points can't be already set, the logic comes once the installation is over (i.e. in grub and in /etc/fstab). And if your partitions aren't recognized you can't assign them some mount points but maybe that's what you meant! This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett I remember I had a similar issue installing debian maybe one year ago. If I get it right, some partitions created with some tool wasn't recognized by the debian installer partitioner (it had something to do with gpt sorry for the lack of precision). What were important is that, as you were already advised by other contributors, using the debian partitioner had solve the problem. A 4k/sector value shouldn't raise an issue, well I think fdisk, gdisk, parted ... would make their way out of it. If partitions aren't aligned (especially bad for SSD) you can do it manually e.g. create your 1st partition at sector 256 (x 4k = 1M) for example. -- mrr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54beda8d$0$2306$426a7...@news.free.fr
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 17:45:34 mrr did opine And Gene did reply: On 20/01/2015 15:40, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. I'm not sure I understand the latter sentence correctly but in doubt : Mount points can't be already set, the logic comes once the installation is over (i.e. in grub and in /etc/fstab). And if your partitions aren't recognized you can't assign them some mount points but maybe that's what you meant! This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett I remember I had a similar issue installing debian maybe one year ago. If I get it right, some partitions created with some tool wasn't recognized by the debian installer partitioner (it had something to do with gpt sorry for the lack of precision). What were important is that, as you were already advised by other contributors, using the debian partitioner had solve the problem. A 4k/sector value shouldn't raise an issue, well I think fdisk, gdisk, parted ... would make their way out of it. and leave you with a miss-aligned disk that writes like its full of molsasses. Fdisk complains, gdisk will fix it, but what good does that do you when there is NO WAY AROUND the partitioner in the installer. If partitions aren't aligned (especially bad for SSD) you can do it manually e.g. create your 1st partition at sector 256 (x 4k = 1M) for example. Difficult to do when the tool does NOT explain what the number its showing actually represents. You fight with it, getting into a loop because it doesn't like something, so you sit there and work your way around the loop, about a 4 step process per loop, until you give up and just let it do its WRONG thing. -- mrr Thanks mrr. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501201942.26172.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 14:43:48 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine And Gene did reply: On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 01:03:50PM -0500, Gary Dale wrote: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. The wheezy installer _ought_ to work with a 4K disk - fdisk will normally work - but ... It will work, poorly, giving ass-aligned disk that will be slow, or slower. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. Tried that, no popup, or other effect other than a screen redraw. Tab to the do not use and hit enter to allow you to change it. If given the option you probably should format each partition anyway to clear them. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. No, but I'd say its on a par with Apollo 13. :) Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501201931.10993.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tue, 20 Jan 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: and leave you with a miss-aligned disk that writes like its full of molsasses. Fdisk complains, gdisk will fix it, but what good does that do you when there is NO WAY AROUND the partitioner in the installer. Of course there is. In general, the partitioner can just use your existing partitions. If for some reason, you've partitioned your existing partitions in a way that it is unable to figure out, then you can just 1) use expert mode 2) skip the partitioner entirely 3) mount your partitions directly on /target, 4) continue with the install selecting the remaining steps manually in order without rerunning the partitioner. If you're still having trouble, the actual logs will be more helpful. See https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-miscellaneous -- Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams _The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul_ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150121005851.gf1...@rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tuesday 20 January 2015 13:33:43 Lisi Reisz did opine And Gene did reply: On Tuesday 20 January 2015 14:37:30 Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 Doesn't exist. Do you mean 7.8? And which disk? Yeah, sorry girl, but typus are the order when I am not happy, as I just destroyed the 2nd wheezy install trying to fix the broken partitioning tools in the installer. They obviously never saw a 4k/sector disk before in their lives. The MBR they left behind when I finally just said godoit, gives any partitioning tool an exedrine headache. install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. Don't bypass it. Use it. Just tell it what you want it to do, and it will do it. You need at the very least to allocate the partitions. You don't have to create or format them. Lisi, it will NOT do as I tell it even in the expert mode. It, when I try to get it to do what I want, just loops and keeps asking the same questions over and over. It's broken, pure and simple, has no knowledge of a 4k/sector disk, so it carves up an MBR and partition table so screwed up I doubt it could ever write more than 6M/sec on a 120M/sec disk. gdisk tried to fix it, but wound up wiping it out so bad it cannot now find the drive. GParted, a very old version, can, but its read-only. So it can't even do an e2fsck on any partition the debian installer created. It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? There isn't a problem with the Wheezy partitioner. You can use it or not as you choose. See my comment above. You cannot NOT use it, it refuses to proceed to the next, format the partitions step. Sorry, Gene. This really does look like PEBKAC. The partitioner is fine. No PEBKAC, I've now tried to bypass the installers partitioner 4 times after having set the drive up correctly with tools that do know about 4k/sector drives No its not, it is not even remotely aware of the alignment requirements needed to use a 4k/sector drive at full speed. The drive technology moves on, but those tools are stuck in 2010 maybe? If there is a way, then maybe I'll try it again, but give me step by step I can printout and follow when there is no one in the room, or available via the net. Lisi Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201501201902.41153.ghesk...@wdtv.com
Re: So much for a wheezy install, massive fail
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 01:03:50PM -0500, Gary Dale wrote: On 20/01/15 09:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; I just started to do a wheezy 2.8 install on a disk with 4k sectors, this after researching and finding a partitioner utility that DOES know about 4k/sector disks. That is gdisk. which found the gparted setup and fixed it, all I had to do was write it to the disk., gparted, an old version is not capable of aligning things correctly. So the disk is all partitioned and formatted but empty. Now I find I cannot bypass the disk partitioner in the installer, nor can I force it to use these partitions on the hilited drive This is using the installer in expert mode. The wheezy installer _ought_ to work with a 4K disk - fdisk will normally work - but ... It will not let me change the do not use when I hilite a partition and hit enter. It doesn't even acknowledge the mount points /boot and / already set. Tab to the do not use and hit enter to allow you to change it. If given the option you probably should format each partition anyway to clear them. This is less than a desirable thing. How can I both bypass the broken partitioner, AND force it to use the partitions it finds on the hilited drive? Cheers, Gene Heskett The installer takes you into the screen to select partitions. All you have to do is tell it which partitions to use for what. It will default to formatting them, I believe, but you can tell it not to format. It's not that user-unfriendly. GPT partition tables include a legacy partition table so it works with older software. Sorry I've got no screen prints to show you, but if you can figure out how to switch the partition from do not use to ext4 or whatever file system you prefer, the rest should be easy. None of this is rocket science. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54be9886.4020...@torfree.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150120194348.ga5...@galactic.demon.co.uk
