Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 04:39:49PM -0400, Celejar wrote: On Sun, 23 May 2010 23:20:45 +0300 Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: An interesting proposal a while ago was to be able to add some more information to Suggests:, something like: Package: acpi-support Suggests: radeontool (backlight control for ATI Radeon based laptops) *That* would really be a great idea. As it is, I'm often left scratching my head trying to figure out what's likely to go wrong, or what functionality will be missing, if I don't install some recommendation. Aaaah! what about the bloat added to the packages.gz file? You can find the functionality by apt-cache show radeontool, but I agree it should be a suggests. -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100524122657.gb22...@fischer
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
And I massume people read manuals or similar before making big steps toward unstable or testing versions. I didn't read even ONE manual, it was just too boring at stable, after few weeks in testing I just got bored... perhaps I will get bored before August and then I will use experimental... but yes, I know the risk of doing this w/o reading manuals. Intuition is telling me what I have to do :), an I know a lot more people doing the same thing. It is boring when you read manual. -- darkestkhan -- jid: darkestk...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Tue, 25 May 2010 00:26:57 +1200 Chris Bannister mockingb...@earthlight.co.nz wrote: On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 04:39:49PM -0400, Celejar wrote: On Sun, 23 May 2010 23:20:45 +0300 Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: An interesting proposal a while ago was to be able to add some more information to Suggests:, something like: Package: acpi-support Suggests: radeontool (backlight control for ATI Radeon based laptops) *That* would really be a great idea. As it is, I'm often left scratching my head trying to figure out what's likely to go wrong, or what functionality will be missing, if I don't install some recommendation. Aaaah! what about the bloat added to the packages.gz file? You can find the functionality by apt-cache show radeontool, but I agree it should be a suggests. When doing an upgrade, having to stop and run 'apt-cache show ' for every recommends is annoying, and the information can sometimes be pretty opaque, for things like library packages and lower-level glue layers. I don't know what to say about the size increase in packages.gz. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100524092431.5488217f.cele...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Mon,24.May.10, 09:24:31, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 25 May 2010 00:26:57 +1200 Chris Bannister mockingb...@earthlight.co.nz wrote: Aaaah! what about the bloat added to the packages.gz file? You can find the functionality by apt-cache show radeontool, but I agree it should be a suggests. When doing an upgrade, having to stop and run 'apt-cache show ' for every recommends is annoying, and the information can sometimes be pretty opaque, for things like library packages and lower-level glue layers. I don't know what to say about the size increase in packages.gz. There was a plan (already implemented?) to treat the English package descriptions as just another translation and separate them from the Packages file. That would be a huge save in space and could allow for new features such as this. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Fri, 21 May 2010 22:12:20 +0300 Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri,21.May.10, 14:43:47, Celejar wrote: But I've long found the 'recommends' concept to be somewhat tricky and perhaps to vary from maintainer to maintainer. For example, mesa-utils needs GLX, which, practically speaking, means that you need libgl1-mesa-dri. The maintainer refuses to make this even a recommends, basically since the X server can run on a different machine: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=559223 Now, I'd bet (although I suppose that I may be wrong) that the vast majority of Debian installations have the X server and clients on the same machine, and the other case is probably the more 'unusual' one. Imagine a large organization with a lot of thin clients... Understood. But what I meant was that an awful lot of people could potentially be hit by this, even if they're installing recommends, which they'd probably assume should take care of this. OTOH, acpi-support 'recommends' radeontool, even though this package is utterly irrelevant to those without ATI Radeon chipsets: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=562883 Oh, I can finally get rid of that one! (used to be a Depends and I forgot to check) Both are excelent examples :) But even if you disagree with the maintainer, in the end Debian is a do-ocracy. That is, the one who does the job usually gets to decide how it's done ;) Of course. I was just suggesting that a more precise and consistent definition of 'recommends' would be helpful. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100523145304.c065e793.cele...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Sun,23.May.10, 14:53:04, Celejar wrote: Both are excelent examples :) But even if you disagree with the maintainer, in the end Debian is a do-ocracy. That is, the one who does the job usually gets to decide how it's done ;) Of course. I was just suggesting that a more precise and consistent definition of 'recommends' would be helpful. IMHO, I doubt it would help. There will always be cases where it is very difficult to draw the line between Depends: vs Recommends: (see the not very long ago flames about making xorg depend on hal) and also Recommends: vs Suggests: An interesting proposal a while ago was to be able to add some more information to Suggests:, something like: Package: acpi-support Suggests: radeontool (backlight control for ATI Radeon based laptops) Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Sun, 23 May 2010 23:20:45 +0300 Andrei Popescu andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun,23.May.10, 14:53:04, Celejar wrote: Both are excelent examples :) But even if you disagree with the maintainer, in the end Debian is a do-ocracy. That is, the one who does the job usually gets to decide how it's done ;) Of course. I was just suggesting that a more precise and consistent definition of 'recommends' would be helpful. IMHO, I doubt it would help. There will always be cases where it is very difficult to draw the line between Depends: vs Recommends: (see the not very long ago flames about making xorg depend on hal) and also Recommends: vs Suggests: I agree that absolute precision is probably impossible, but we can strive toward it. An interesting proposal a while ago was to be able to add some more information to Suggests:, something like: Package: acpi-support Suggests: radeontool (backlight control for ATI Radeon based laptops) *That* would really be a great idea. As it is, I'm often left scratching my head trying to figure out what's likely to go wrong, or what functionality will be missing, if I don't install some recommendation. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100523163949.735e3799.cele...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Understood. But what I meant was that an awful lot of people could potentially be hit by this, even if they're installing recommends, which they'd probably assume should take care of this. Of course. I was just suggesting that a more precise and consistent definition of 'recommends' would be helpful. Some people like it, some simply don't. It is the way it is. There is another path to follow, the one that was developed on bsd. To take new sources and recompile differences or to make binary upgrade for security issues. And to tweak Makefile to fit. Every kind has it's own strenghts. I like apt-get on no-graphics server. And I assume people read manuals or similar before making big steps toward unstable ot testing versions. Best regards Zoran -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100524041449.ga...@faust
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Thu,20.May.10, 15:13:35, James Zuelow wrote: In Thomas' defense, I noticed the same thing and had much the same reaction. The Squeeze KDE 4.4 update this week pulled down network-manager as a dependency. In my case I much prefer wicd to handle my wireless. $ aptitude search '?depends(network-manager-kde)' p plasma-widget-networkmanagement-dbg- debugging symbols for KDE Network Management Do you have this package installed? The update had them both running simultaneously, which I didn't like at all. I was plugged into my wired network, which wicd had set up as default, and network-manger connected to one of the wireless networks I had configured. Both interfaces up, even two default routes. Yuk. I didn't like the fact that the KDE update ignored my current install of wicd to install network-manager, and when I purged network-manager KDE worked (and continues to work) just fine. wicd used to conflict with network-manager, but not anymore: wicd (1.6.2.2-2) unstable; urgency=low [...] * debian/control: - remove Conflict on network-manager, since both can be used at the same time, provided they don't try to control the same interface (Closes: #548978) There may be valid use cases for this. So the dependency on network-manager seems to be merely a preference of the KDE team. To me that means I should not have seen network-manager if I already had wicd installed. This is very similar to the various packages that insist they need avahi-daemon to work, and yet purging avahi-daemon doesn't break anything not using mDNS. You could file a whishlist bug on these: $ aptitude search '?recommends(network-manager-kde)' p education-standalone - Debian Edu standalone workstation packages p kde-standard - the KDE Plasma Desktop and standard set of applications p knm-runtime- KDE NetworkManagement infrastructure runtime files p network-manager- network management framework daemon so they Recommend: network-manager-kde | wicd-gtk Unfortunately there is no wicd-qt package and I doubt the KDE maintainers will want to 'Recommend' a GTK package, especially since it isn't that hard to override. So while Thomas could file a bug, I don't think it's not germane to complain about DDs putting everything under the sun into a dependency list. Here's the place for the community to decide whether we really need to force an install of network-manager (or avahi) when they're not really needed, or decide that because some cases might require it everyone should have it. I agree with you, but in this particular case it is not a 'Depends' it is a 'Recommends', and testing/unstable users should know how to override those. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Andrei Popescu wrote: I agree with you, but in this particular case it is not a 'Depends' it is a 'Recommends', and testing/unstable users should know how to override those. Andrei, I do not mind installing some extra packages if they are recommended, and I will leave the setting as it is; sometimes I discover useful software with it and from time to time I go through the list of installed packages in aptitude and purge unused ones. This has served me well for 9+ years using Debian. What I got really angry about is that network-manager (or some other packet; I will investigate tonight and file a bug) reconfigured my network on-the-fly a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. I do not use wicd or any other configuration helper (I'm not sure if I made it clear enough in my first mail that I'm not a friend of XXX-helper and YYY-manager packets...) I have configured my wireless network in /etc/network/interfaces, as described in /usr/share/doc/wireless-tools/README.Debian. When I tried out to set up the wireless connection manually with ifconfig+iwconfig+wpasupplicant, I found that wpasupplicant associated continuously with the AP, only to be kicked off by again by someone else (supposedly network-manager). While my first mail may have been written in a very angry state of mind, I still think that it is annoying at best to fiddle with people's network settings on a desktop machine, but on any other machine it may be fatal. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/34fc541415163b94a68a0e2fc782eda9.squir...@www.tty1.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Fri,21.May.10, 11:57:41, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Fri,21.May.10, 09:53:03, Thomas Pircher wrote: What I got really angry about is that network-manager (or some other packet; I will investigate tonight and file a bug) reconfigured my network on-the-fly a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. I'm not very familiar with network-manager (a.k.a network-mangler) because I prefer wicd, but I recall there was a setting for it to not touch the network if it was configured in /etc/network/interfaces. That setting is probably not on by default :( Regards, Andrei P.S. Any reason to keep this off-list? Never mind, now I see you also sent it to the list. Regards, Andrei -- http://nuvreauspam.ro/2010/05/4-neticheta-pe-mail/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Andrei Popescu wrote: I'm not very familiar with network-manager (a.k.a network-mangler) because I prefer wicd, but I recall there was a setting for it to not touch the network if it was configured in /etc/network/interfaces. That setting is probably not on by default :( I will hopefully find out tonight what was going wrong. P.S. Any reason to keep this off-list? Never mind, now I see you also sent it to the list. Sorry, I was using a webmailer, and didn't realize I was replying to you rather than to the list. Cheers Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/a3f56cfa28c402a53597a4600ef787f4.squir...@www.tty1.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Andrei Popescu wrote: I'm not very familiar with network-manager (a.k.a network-mangler) because I prefer wicd, but I recall there was a setting for it to not touch the network if it was configured in /etc/network/interfaces. That setting is probably not on by default :( I will hopefully find out tonight what was going wrong. P.S. Any reason to keep this off-list? Never mind, now I see you also sent it to the list. Sorry, I was using a webmailer, and didn't realize I was replying to you rather than to the list. Cheers Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2ad8d4253a622a8d19085e3148f51eac.squir...@www.tty1.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Friday 21 May 2010 03:53:57 Thomas Pircher wrote: What I got really angry about is that network-manager (or some other packet; I will investigate tonight and file a bug) reconfigured my network on-the-fly a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. From what I understand, all 3 of these are primary goals of the network- manager package. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On 05/21/2010 10:45 AM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Friday 21 May 2010 03:53:57 Thomas Pircher wrote: What I got really angry about is that network-manager (or some other packet; I will investigate tonight and file a bug) reconfigured my network on-the-fly a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. From what I understand, all 3 of these are primary goals of the network- manager package. Sometimes referred to as network-mangler. -- Jordan Metzmeier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bf6a0a1.8030...@gmail.com
RE: Unable to connect to my home wireless
So while Thomas could file a bug, I don't think it's not germane to complain about DDs putting everything under the sun into a dependency list. Here's the place for the community to decide whether we really need to force an install of network-manager (or avahi) when they're not really needed, or decide that because some cases might require it everyone should have it. Anyway, just my 2c James Only time I have incurred this is when I have preferences set to include recommended files as dependencies thereby passing control of the upgrade to the system. Not a good idea BTW!! I use synaptic most of the time I suspect aptitude has a similar setting. command line updates do not have this issue.:-) Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you don't actually set preferences to install recommends. This is now the Debian default. You have to explicitly turn them off if you don't want them. To avoid this, you should place these lines in /etc/apt/apt.conf: APT::Install-Recommends 0; APT::Install-Suggests 0; I agree -- recommends are not depends, and they should not be automatic. And yet they are. (Also note that I have the above lines in my apt.conf and I *still* got network-manger.) James -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4a09477d575c2c4b86497161427dd94c14a6c83...@city-exchange07
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you don't actually set preferences to install recommends. This is now the Debian default. You have to explicitly turn them off if you don't want them. To avoid this, you should place these lines in /etc/apt/apt.conf: APT::Install-Recommends 0; APT::Install-Suggests 0; I agree -- recommends are not depends, and they should not be automatic. And yet they are. (Also note that I have the above lines in my apt.conf and I *still* got network-manger.) James The IRC bot in #debian has this to say about why recommends: From lenny onwards, apt-get and aptitude both install Recommended packages by default. From policy section 7.2, Recommends, declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. You're not that unusual, trust us. By not installing recommended packages, you will be missing functionality. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bf6c831.1080...@gmail.com
RE: Unable to connect to my home wireless
-Original Message- From: Andrei Popescu [mailto:andreimpope...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 21 May, 2010 00:22 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless On Thu,20.May.10, 15:13:35, James Zuelow wrote: In Thomas' defense, I noticed the same thing and had much the same reaction. The Squeeze KDE 4.4 update this week pulled down network-manager as a dependency. In my case I much prefer wicd to handle my wireless. $ aptitude search '?depends(network-manager-kde)' p plasma-widget-networkmanagement-dbg - debugging symbols for KDE Network Management Do you have this package installed? No. But I did do an `aptitude full-upgrade` to be sure I got all of the KDE 4.4 bits. It could be with a safe-upgrade that I would not have gotten network-manager. The 'are you sure you want to do this' screen was very long and I should admit I did not go through it package by package to make sure nothing I didn't want was coming down. :) wicd used to conflict with network-manager, but not anymore: wicd (1.6.2.2-2) unstable; urgency=low [...] * debian/control: - remove Conflict on network-manager, since both can be used at the same time, provided they don't try to control the same interface (Closes: #548978) There may be valid use cases for this. Hmm. Maybe I should file a bug on one or both of them. They were not trying to control the same interface, but they both thought they had the default route. In some cases that could be very bad. I agree with you, but in this particular case it is not a 'Depends' it is a 'Recommends', and testing/unstable users should know how to override those. Yeah, this gets back recommends being installed by default. (Or at least it appears to be that way to me.) So logically, that makes them very similar to depends in my mind. I had thought that: APT::Install-Recommends 0; APT::Install-Suggests 0; was sufficient. I don't spend a lot of time looking at apt internals though, so that solution may not be correct. Anyway, it's not the end of the world. I know how to recover from various things apt does to make life interesting, and I know that I'm not so special that when Debian disagrees with my opinions that I need to file bugs. I was primarily responding to the suggestion that we should not complain on the mailing list. :) James -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4a09477d575c2c4b86497161427dd94c14a6c83...@city-exchange07
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Fri, 21 May 2010 13:51:45 -0400 Jordan Metzmeier titan8...@gmail.com wrote: ... The IRC bot in #debian has this to say about why recommends: From lenny onwards, apt-get and aptitude both install Recommended packages by default. From policy section 7.2, Recommends, declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. You're not that unusual, trust us. By not installing recommended packages, you will be missing functionality. But I've long found the 'recommends' concept to be somewhat tricky and perhaps to vary from maintainer to maintainer. For example, mesa-utils needs GLX, which, practically speaking, means that you need libgl1-mesa-dri. The maintainer refuses to make this even a recommends, basically since the X server can run on a different machine: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=559223 Now, I'd bet (although I suppose that I may be wrong) that the vast majority of Debian installations have the X server and clients on the same machine, and the other case is probably the more 'unusual' one. OTOH, acpi-support 'recommends' radeontool, even though this package is utterly irrelevant to those without ATI Radeon chipsets: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=562883 Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100521144347.eaf9b2ae.cele...@gmail.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Fri,21.May.10, 14:43:47, Celejar wrote: But I've long found the 'recommends' concept to be somewhat tricky and perhaps to vary from maintainer to maintainer. For example, mesa-utils needs GLX, which, practically speaking, means that you need libgl1-mesa-dri. The maintainer refuses to make this even a recommends, basically since the X server can run on a different machine: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=559223 Now, I'd bet (although I suppose that I may be wrong) that the vast majority of Debian installations have the X server and clients on the same machine, and the other case is probably the more 'unusual' one. Imagine a large organization with a lot of thin clients... OTOH, acpi-support 'recommends' radeontool, even though this package is utterly irrelevant to those without ATI Radeon chipsets: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=562883 Oh, I can finally get rid of that one! (used to be a Depends and I forgot to check) Both are excelent examples :) But even if you disagree with the maintainer, in the end Debian is a do-ocracy. That is, the one who does the job usually gets to decide how it's done ;) Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. From what I understand, all 3 of these are primary goals of the network- manager package. I'm sure network-manager will live up to its goals, eventually. For the time being I have created a new bug with the title network-manager ignores configured interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces. ;-) It doesn't yet show up on bugs.debian.org, I guess it takes some time. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005212329.07787.teh...@gmx.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
* On 2010 21 May 17:30 -0500, Thomas Pircher wrote: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: a) without asking me, b) without telling me and c) without being told to do so. From what I understand, all 3 of these are primary goals of the network- manager package. I'm sure network-manager will live up to its goals, eventually. For the time being I have created a new bug with the title network-manager ignores configured interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces. ;-) It doesn't yet show up on bugs.debian.org, I guess it takes some time. As I understand it, both Network Manager and Wicd are intended to control the network interfaces. If you want to control the interfaces manually, remove NM. If you want to use NM then only the loopback interface should be defined in /etc/network/interface. NM works very well for me on my Ubuntu Lucid laptop. Meanwhile, my Debian desktop utilizes /etc/network/interface as it doesn't roam anywhere. - Nate -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100522022951.ge2...@n0nb.us
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Same here: after the update on Tuesday (Monday I didn't update), my wireless network stopped working. Today I figured out what was going on: the update installed the packets knm- runtime, network-manager-kde, network-manager and possible other packets. After I duly uninstalled those offending pieces of crap, my wireless network started to work again. Until now I thought I was the manager of my computer, and I would greatly appreciate Debian not to automatically install such potentially harmful (let alone completely useless) packages on my PC. And IF Debian needs to install them to make some users happy, at least make sure they don't do any harm. Thank you. Th -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005202210.17618.teh...@gmx.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Thomas Pircher teh...@gmx.net wrote: Same here: after the update on Tuesday (Monday I didn't update), my wireless network stopped working. Today I figured out what was going on: the update installed the packets knm- runtime, network-manager-kde, network-manager and possible other packets. After I duly uninstalled those offending pieces of crap, my wireless network started to work again. Until now I thought I was the manager of my computer, and I would greatly appreciate Debian not to automatically install such potentially harmful (let alone completely useless) packages on my PC. And IF Debian needs to install them to make some users happy, at least make sure they don't do any harm. Thank you. Th If you are running Debian stable you should not see package upgrades outside of security updates. This means no new versions of a package will come along and depend on a new package that you did not have before. It sounds to me like this was not a regular upgrade, or your running/mixing with a release such as testing or unstable. You can use aptitude why network-manager-kde to find out why a package was automatically installed. You also seem to be wanting to complain, instead of asking for support or looking for discussion. IMO complaints should go to bugs.debian.org, not necessarily here. -- Jordan Metzmeier
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
Jordan Metzmeier wrote: It sounds to me like this was not a regular upgrade, or your running/mixing with a release such as testing or unstable. You can use aptitude why network-manager-kde to find out why a package was automatically installed. You are right, I am running debian/testing. The packet was installed with a big KDE update. You also seem to be wanting to complain, instead of asking for support or looking for discussion. I hoped at least the first part of the mail would be helpful to someone having the same problem. I found a few posts with the same error during the last, but no answer so far. IMO complaints should go to bugs.debian.org, not necessarily here. Noted. Th. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005202318.33779.teh...@gmx.net
RE: Unable to connect to my home wireless
I hoped at least the first part of the mail would be helpful to someone having the same problem. I found a few posts with the same error during the last, but no answer so far. IMO complaints should go to bugs.debian.org, not necessarily here. Noted. Th. In Thomas' defense, I noticed the same thing and had much the same reaction. The Squeeze KDE 4.4 update this week pulled down network-manager as a dependency. In my case I much prefer wicd to handle my wireless. The update had them both running simultaneously, which I didn't like at all. I was plugged into my wired network, which wicd had set up as default, and network-manger connected to one of the wireless networks I had configured. Both interfaces up, even two default routes. Yuk. I didn't like the fact that the KDE update ignored my current install of wicd to install network-manager, and when I purged network-manager KDE worked (and continues to work) just fine. So the dependency on network-manager seems to be merely a preference of the KDE team. To me that means I should not have seen network-manager if I already had wicd installed. This is very similar to the various packages that insist they need avahi-daemon to work, and yet purging avahi-daemon doesn't break anything not using mDNS. So while Thomas could file a bug, I don't think it's not germane to complain about DDs putting everything under the sun into a dependency list. Here's the place for the community to decide whether we really need to force an install of network-manager (or avahi) when they're not really needed, or decide that because some cases might require it everyone should have it. Anyway, just my 2c James -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4a09477d575c2c4b86497161427dd94c14a6c83...@city-exchange07
RE: Unable to connect to my home wireless
-Original Message- From: James Zuelow james_zue...@ci.juneau.ak.us To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: RE: Unable to connect to my home wireless Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:13:35 -0800 I hoped at least the first part of the mail would be helpful to someone having the same problem. I found a few posts with the same error during the last, but no answer so far. IMO complaints should go to bugs.debian.org, not necessarily here. Noted. Th. In Thomas' defense, I noticed the same thing and had much the same reaction. The Squeeze KDE 4.4 update this week pulled down network-manager as a dependency. In my case I much prefer wicd to handle my wireless. The update had them both running simultaneously, which I didn't like at all. I was plugged into my wired network, which wicd had set up as default, and network-manger connected to one of the wireless networks I had configured. Both interfaces up, even two default routes. Yuk. I didn't like the fact that the KDE update ignored my current install of wicd to install network-manager, and when I purged network-manager KDE worked (and continues to work) just fine. So the dependency on network-manager seems to be merely a preference of the KDE team. To me that means I should not have seen network-manager if I already had wicd installed. This is very similar to the various packages that insist they need avahi-daemon to work, and yet purging avahi-daemon doesn't break anything not using mDNS. So while Thomas could file a bug, I don't think it's not germane to complain about DDs putting everything under the sun into a dependency list. Here's the place for the community to decide whether we really need to force an install of network-manager (or avahi) when they're not really needed, or decide that because some cases might require it everyone should have it. Anyway, just my 2c James Only time I have incurred this is when I have preferences set to include recommended files as dependencies thereby passing control of the upgrade to the system. Not a good idea BTW!! I use synaptic most of the time I suspect aptitude has a similar setting. command line updates do not have this issue.:-) -- John Foster -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1274417163.21582.3.ca...@brutus
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
My card is listed at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Wireless_Network_Adapters#IBM_High_Rate_Wireless_LAN_PC_Card, at the very bottom of the page: IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card Chipset: Hermes I Drivers: orinoco_cs Supported wireless modes: 802.11b I pulled the thing out of the machine, and discovered, something that I had not seen anywhere else, printed on the underside what may well be a clue: Encryption: WEP64 Woops! Cannot say I had an experience with orinoco. It was old kind of chip. I think that support for orinoco was abandoned for bsd year or so ago. And no wpa2, for sure. Any chance you could put some newer card in place? My stand of view would be the same as I did for my lap- top: the card that is supported well. On freebsd I invested and put atheros in pcmcia slot. Not the answer that would make you happy, but probably the best in the situation. Best regards Zoran -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100504152616.ga...@faust.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On 04/05/10, Zoran Kolic (zko...@sbb.rs) wrote: | ... | IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card | Chipset: Hermes I | Drivers: orinoco_cs | Woops! | Cannot say I had an experience with orinoco. It was | old kind of chip. I think that support for orinoco | was abandoned for bsd year or so ago. And no wpa2, for | sure. The curious thing, or one of them, is that I do get a connection whether the router is set to WPA or WPA@ -- the first time it is set that way. | Any chance you could put some newer card in | place? Possibly, but so long as it and the 600X ThinkPad it is in run, I'm not inclined to spend the money. Thanks for responding. -- johnrchamp...@columbus.rr.com 219 East Beck Street Columbus, OH 43206 home: 1-614-228-3623; cell: 1-614-477-6724 GPG key 1024D/99421A63 2005-01-05 EE51 79E9 F244 D734 A012 1CEC 7813 9FE9 9942 1A63 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 99421A63 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On 03/05/10, Zoran Kolic (zko...@sbb.rs) wrote: | | When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' | | I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsy | workaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (Linksys | WRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic manages | to connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic is | looking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the the | protocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back the | other way. No further change required -- until the next time, when the | router needs to be reset _again_!. | | I have the same router. The very first thing was to | set it to g only. That won't work for me, since one of the laptops has only b, the other g. See below. | ... Would be fine to know some | details about the hardware. Wifi chip at least. My card is listed at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Wireless_Network_Adapters#IBM_High_Rate_Wireless_LAN_PC_Card, at the very bottom of the page: IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card Chipset: Hermes I Drivers: orinoco_cs Supported wireless modes: 802.11b I pulled the thing out of the machine, and discovered, something that I had not seen anywhere else, printed on the underside what may well be a clue: Encryption: WEP64 -- johnrchamp...@columbus.rr.com GPG key 1024D/99421A63 2005-01-05 EE51 79E9 F244 D734 A012 1CEC 7813 9FE9 9942 1A63 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 99421A63 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Unable to connect to my home wireless
I am running an up to date Squeeze system using LXDE. I use wicd as my network manager. Since doing a full upgrade on Monday I have been unable to connect to my home wireless network. I can connect to various unsecured networks at work, at local restaurants and coffee shops. I just can't connect to my home network. Here, I have to connect a cat5 cable. Since the only place to do this is sitting directly in front of my desktop system it kind of defeats the purpose. I have verified that the WEP key is correct and I really don't know what else to look for. When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' Does anyone have any idea what is wrong, or what config file, or error log I should look at to get more information? Marc Shapiro mshapiro...@yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/762862.52678...@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On 05/02/2010 09:24 AM, Marc Shapiro wrote: I am running an up to date Squeeze system using LXDE. I use wicd as my network manager. Since doing a full upgrade on Monday I have been unable to connect to my home wireless network. I can connect to various unsecured networks at work, at local restaurants and coffee shops. I just can't connect to my home network. Here, I have to connect a cat5 cable. Since the only place to do this is sitting directly in front of my desktop system it kind of defeats the purpose. I have verified that the WEP key is correct and I really don't know what else to look for. Hi! Do an attempt to connect, and then as root, go to /var/log and give an ' ls -lat' - up on the list are the log files which were changed recently and contain the logs you want. Check them and send the relevant parts. By the way, my brother who was running ubuntu 9.10 just upgraded to 10.04 and has exactly the same issue. Can you tell us what is the version you are currently running? (aptitude show wicd) G. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On 01/05/10, Marc Shapiro (mshapiro...@yahoo.com) wrote: | Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 23:24:56 -0700 (PDT) | From: Marc Shapiro mshapiro...@yahoo.com | To: debian-user@lists.debian.org | Subject: Unable to connect to my home wireless | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.5 required=4.0 | tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,FOURLA, | LDOSUBSCRIBER,LDO_WHITELIST,MDO_CABLE_TV3 autolearn=failed | version=3.2.5 | |... | When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' | | Does anyone have any idea what is wrong, or what config file, or error log I should look at to get more information? | I have exactly the same problem on a 600X ThinkPad, using an IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card, but not on a T42pThinkPad, both running up to date sid. I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsy workaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (Linksys WRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic manages to connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic is looking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the the protocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back the other way. No further change required -- until the next time, when the router needs to be reset _again_!. It's a nuisance and a puzzlement. The only clue I get from /var/log/daemon.log is dhclient: send_packet: Network is unreachable dhclient: send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address (I find nothing helpful in any README (in /usr/share/doc/dhcp-client or dhcp-common.) After that, ifplugd finds the network, and dhclient fails to secure a connection. Until I reset the router and try again. Good luck figuring out a better solution. -- johnrchamp...@columbus.rr.com GPG key 1024D/99421A63 2005-01-05 EE51 79E9 F244 D734 A012 1CEC 7813 9FE9 9942 1A63 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 99421A63 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
From: John johnrchamp...@columbus.rr.com On 01/05/10, Marc Shapiro (mshapiro...@yahoo.com) wrote: | When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating | authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says | 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' | | Does anyone have any | idea what is wrong, or what config file, or error log I should look at to get | more information? | I have exactly the same problem on a 600X ThinkPad, using an IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card, but not on a T42pThinkPad, both running upto date sid. I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsyworkaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (LinksysWRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic managesto connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic islooking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the theprotocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back theother way. No further change required -- until the next time, when therouter needs to be reset _again_!. I t's a nuisance and a puzzlement. The only clue I get from/var/log/daemon.log is dhclient: send_packet: Network is unreachable dhclient: send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address (I find nothing helpful in any README (in /usr/share/doc/dhcp-client ordhcp-common.) After that, ifplugd finds the network, and dhclient fails to secure aconnection. Until I reset the router and try again. Good luck figuring out a better solution. Well, I am using WEP, not WPA, but that is, essentially, the messages that I get in daemon.log, as well.. I tried to turn WEP off then back on again. The first time that I tried this, it actually worked. I was able to connect. Once I disconnected, however, I could not reconnect, even after turning security off and then on again. Up until last Monday;s update this was working fine. On RARE occasions I would have this kind of problem, but simply turning the router off, then back on would fix it. That no longer works, however. I will again point out that this same laptop connects to my wireless just fine if I use the OS which must not be named, or if I boot into eeebuntu 3.0. Also, I can connect from Debian on this laptop with unsecured networks and also with OTHER WEP secured networks. I tried a different WEP secured network today and it connected automatically, just like it should. But it still will not connect to my home wireless network. The other problems that started after Monday's update have since been solved, but this one remains and is quite annoying. If anyone has any other ideas, I would appreciate hearing them. Marc Shapiro mshapiro...@yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/477707.99370...@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 07:31, Marc Shapiro mshapiro...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John johnrchamp...@columbus.rr.com On 01/05/10, Marc Shapiro (mshapiro...@yahoo.com) wrote: | When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating | authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says | 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' | | Does anyone have any | idea what is wrong, or what config file, or error log I should look at to get | more information? | I have exactly the same problem on a 600X ThinkPad, using an IBM High Rate Wireless LAN PC Card, but not on a T42pThinkPad, both running upto date sid. I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsyworkaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (LinksysWRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic managesto connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic islooking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the theprotocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back theother way. No further change required -- until the next time, when therouter needs to be reset _again_!. I t's a nuisance and a puzzlement. The only clue I get from/var/log/daemon.log is dhclient: send_packet: Network is unreachable dhclient: send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address (I find nothing helpful in any README (in /usr/share/doc/dhcp-client ordhcp-common.) After that, ifplugd finds the network, and dhclient fails to secure aconnection. Until I reset the router and try again. Good luck figuring out a better solution. Well, I am using WEP, not WPA, but that is, essentially, the messages that I get in daemon.log, as well.. I tried to turn WEP off then back on again. The first time that I tried this, it actually worked. I was able to connect. Once I disconnected, however, I could not reconnect, even after turning security off and then on again. Up until last Monday;s update this was working fine. On RARE occasions I would have this kind of problem, but simply turning the router off, then back on would fix it. That no longer works, however. I will again point out that this same laptop connects to my wireless just fine if I use the OS which must not be named, or if I boot into eeebuntu 3.0. Also, I can connect from Debian on this laptop with unsecured networks and also with OTHER WEP secured networks. I tried a different WEP secured network today and it connected automatically, just like it should. But it still will not connect to my home wireless network. The other problems that started after Monday's update have since been solved, but this one remains and is quite annoying. If anyone has any other ideas, I would appreciate hearing them. Marc Shapiro mshapiro...@yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/477707.99370...@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com Look at the kernel log (dmesg) to see any associate/de-associate messages. Also with wep you could easily setup your /etc/network/interfaces to configure your wireless interface without using wicd etc. For a static connection do the following assuming your wireless is wlan0 auto wlan0 iface wlan0 inet static address ip address netmask 255.255.255.0 wireless-essid essid of the network wireless-mode managed wireless-key wep key you could change that to dhcp also.
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
| When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsy workaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (Linksys WRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic manages to connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic is looking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the the protocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back the other way. No further change required -- until the next time, when the router needs to be reset _again_!. I have the same router. The very first thing was to set it to g only. Changing the channel may help further. So, I would try that out, giving wpa2 a chan- ce and using wpa_supplicant. Would be fine to know some details about the hardware. Wifi chip at least. (I hope I did not oversee it.) Best regards Zoran -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100503043834.ga...@faust.net
Re: Unable to connect to my home wireless
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:08, Zoran Kolic zko...@sbb.rs wrote: | When I try to connect, wicd says that it is 'Putting interface up...', 'Validating authentication...', 'Obtaining IP address...' then it times out and says 'Connection failed: Unable to Get IP Address.' I have no clue what causes the problem, but I have found a clumsy workaround by trial and error: when I reset the router (Linksys WRT54GL) either to WPA from WPA2, or back the other way, wic manages to connect the next try. It doesn't seem to matter whether wic is looking for a password or a pre-shared key, so long as the the protocol is TKIP. Next time, I have to reset the router back the other way. No further change required -- until the next time, when the router needs to be reset _again_!. I have the same router. The very first thing was to set it to g only. Changing the channel may help further. So, I would try that out, giving wpa2 a chan- ce and using wpa_supplicant. Would be fine to know some details about the hardware. Wifi chip at least. (I hope I did not oversee it.) Best regards Zoran -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100503043834.ga...@faust.net Also do not mix wicd, network-manager, /etc/init.d/networking etc. together, use only one of these. I once had a difficulty to connect because I was using both /etc/init.d/networking and network-manager together, one was stepping on another.
