Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 20:29 -0800, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> Even differing revisions of the same hardware can cause problems.

That is true and something very annoying :(.



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 20:29 -0800, bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
> I've sent back an

I started to do the same for anything I order (if needed), not only for
computer gear. Brands are unimportant. I prefer ASUS, but anyway have
also bad experiences with ASUS.



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread briand
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 09:13:54 +0100
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

> On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> > I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
> > worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
> > you were going for here, Ralf
> 
> ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors have
> got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for computer
> gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did build good HDDs
> for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 years. The company
> that build everlasting power supplies might use undersized capacitors
> now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard to count on. Your milage
> seems to vary.
> 
> 

This is absolutely correct.  Even differing revisions of the same hardware can 
cause problems.  I have good and bad experiences with all of the "big name" MB 
makers.

It's basically a roll of the dice.  Having said that I've probably bought more 
Asus than anything else and have not a problem with any of them.  I've sent 
back an Intel and had Gigabyte die on me (but the other Gigabyte I owned was 
fine).

And really, be more worried about the PS than the MB (don't buy thermaltake).



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Roger Leigh
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:12:54PM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> Co-incidentally, I'm just
> doing a whole-archive rebuild of Debian with 8 concurrent job slots;
> taking about 24h to rebuild every arch-any package with sbuild.  That's
> 7527 builds, working out at just 90 seconds (mean) per package!  Not too
> shabby!

Sorry, that's actually 10517 packages.  Typo in my sources parsing
script...  So probably more like 33h to completion.

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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Roger Leigh
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 05:31:56PM -0500, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> I am planning on upgrading my Debian Linux tower and am soliciting comments
> on the following CPU/Motherboard:
> 
>  
> 
>   AMD FX 8320, 8-core 3.5 GHz, 16.0MB Cache CPU
> 
>   ASUS M5 A97 R2.0 Motherboard

Last year I upgraded to an AMD FX-8350 with an ASUS SABERTOOTH R2.0
motherboard.  Other than an initial annoyance disabling insecure
boot, and getting Debian to install on EFI/GPT, it's all worked
perfectly well.  To be fair, the EFI/GPT stuff works fine, but booting
in EFI mode was initially a challenge because the EFI BIOS kept
silently re-enabling the "secure" boot behind my back which broke the
installer.  Once it was disabled properly, it worked without trouble.

I don't think you'll have any trouble at all with either the processor
or the mainboard.

Once of the nice things with the AMD systems is that you can load
them up with ECC RAM unlike their Intel counterparts (that is, unless
you spend lots of money on expensive Xeons).  Definitely recommended
if you don't mind paying for an extra bit.

These 8-core processors are great for parallel building of stuff; I
got one so I could build C++ code faster.  Co-incidentally, I'm just
doing a whole-archive rebuild of Debian with 8 concurrent job slots;
taking about 24h to rebuild every arch-any package with sbuild.  That's
7527 builds, working out at just 90 seconds (mean) per package!  Not too
shabby!  The machine is still perfectly usable and responsive--you
wouldn't realise it was heavily loaded at all unless you saw the disc
light on solidly. (Maybe I'll bump the parallel count up to 12 for the
next run.)  In synthetic benchmarks, they often don't fare well in
comparison with e.g. i7 processors on various counts, but for this type
of workload they are great.

One thing I did get caught out by is that I thought it would be fun to
try out one of the closed-loop coolers (Corsair H60) where there's a
heatsink with impeller on the CPU and a radiator you put on the air
intake.  It kept the CPU really cool (30-40°C).  However, the mosfets
around the CPU had no airflow around them and were getting to over
80°C!  I ended up replacing it with a big Noctua NH-C14 fan which
blows air down over a heatsink but also removed that dead airspace
which was causing the mainboard to try cooking itself, by blowing air
directly down onto the area surrounding the CPU.  None of the hardware
was faulty here--just the combination of case, mainboard and cooler
not working out due to the poor airflow; just thought it worth
mentioning if it helped anyone else avoid the same mistake.


Regards,
Roger

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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Scott roccVegas
I seem to have an issue as well and my cdn error 

Scottrocc
roccVegas ent.Inc

> On Feb 13, 2014, at 12:15 PM, "Lisi Reisz"  wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 13 February 2014 19:33:26 Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
>> Hay, come on... I thought that I had asked a legitimate
>> question, I didn't want to start a war.
> 
> You didn't start a war.  As you say, you asked a reasonable, 
> legitimate, though possibly slightly OT, question.  The "war" was 
> started by one of the usual suspects, and should just be ignored.  
> Just don't feed the trolls. ;-)
> 
> Lisi
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 20:13 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 13 February 2014 19:33:26 Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> > Hay, come on... I thought that I had asked a legitimate
> > question, I didn't want to start a war.
> 
> You didn't start a war.  As you say, you asked a reasonable, 
> legitimate, though possibly slightly OT, question.  The "war" was 
> started by one of the usual suspects, and should just be ignored.  
> Just don't feed the trolls. ;-)

Did you read what I wrote? Do you claim that all ASUS mobos are good
mobos? Please, you are allowed to hate me for what reason ever, but do
you think that a big company like ASUS is good all the times? Are you
serious? Their interest is to make money, if needed by selling good
gear, if not, they sell crap, this depends to the marketing research.



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Thursday 13 February 2014 19:33:26 Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> Hay, come on... I thought that I had asked a legitimate
> question, I didn't want to start a war.

You didn't start a war.  As you say, you asked a reasonable, 
legitimate, though possibly slightly OT, question.  The "war" was 
started by one of the usual suspects, and should just be ignored.  
Just don't feed the trolls. ;-)

Lisi


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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 14:33 -0500, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> Life is a fuzzy set
> Stochastic and multivariate

;)

It's not a flame, just an idiot claims bullshit. No big company like
ASUS ever cares about quality, they care about marketing. If needed,
they build high quality mobos, if unneeded, because the marketing
strategy did its job, they sell crap.

No good engineer in David's or my age isn't aware about this issue.

David generalized the good luck he had wit ASUS boards and in addition
he use idiotic rhetorical "tricks" against my explanations, but he's
unable to underpin his claim, while I underpinned my claims.



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RE: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Stephen P. Molnar
Hay, come on... I thought that I had asked a legitimate question, I didn't 
want to start a war.
And, yes, I am top posting.

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a fuzzy set
Foundation for Chemistry   Stochastic and 
multivariate
www.FoundationForChemistry.com
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype:  smolnar1

-Original Message-
From: Ralf Mardorf [mailto:ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net] 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:05 PM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Upgrading Computer

On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:38 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> > On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> >> I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one 
> >> has worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly 
> >> sure what you were going for here, Ralf
> > 
> > ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors 
> > have got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for 
> > computer gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did 
> > build good HDDs for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 
> > years. The company that build everlasting power supplies might use 
> > undersized capacitors now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard 
> > to count on. Your milage seems to vary.
> 
> That's an awful lat of supposition based on things you have no way of 
> predicting
> 
> All anyone can do is go on information they have, in hand, regarding 
> past performance.  If a company has an established history of turning 
> out good stuff with a reasonable degree of regularity, the odds are 
> that the next thing they turn out will likely also be good.  Can they 
> turn out something bad?  Sure.  But no sane person is going to go with 
> something along the lines of, "Oh, the next one might be bad even 
> though they've got a good track record so far, so I'm not going to 
> take a chance with that new one."
> 
> If you've got hard information regarding a particular board in the 
> past being bad (bad for lots of people; a case of "it was a good run 
> but the board I got was bad" simply means you got a bad one out of an 
> otherwise good run), then that's hard information that can contribute 
> to a discussion.  Anything else is just a non-sequitur that only 
> serves to clutter up a conversation on the subject while making no 
> meaningful contribution to it.
> 
> In other words, it looks like you're just trolling...

You're mistaken, I won't take the time and search my mails, but you can do it 
on your own, somewhere in the ubuntu studio or 64 studio or linux audio users 
or linux audio developers archives or any other linux audio archive we talked 
about the ASUS mobo I own and about any mobo of any vendor in general. May I 
ask you how often you repair mobos or any other electronically gear? There's 
nothing wrong when you say that your experiences with ASUS mobos are good, but 
there's also nothing wrong when I talk about my knowledge regarding to mobos. 
You are the troll, since you didn't post one evidence that ASUS boards are 
generally good boards. I bought and will buy ASUS boards because I don't have 
much money and ASUS boards are elCheapo mobos and for audio production machines 
it's less expensive to buy ten mobos and to test them than to buy one expensive 
mobo from a company how gives a vague warranty about "no issues for audio 
production". You are trolling because you seemingly don't have experiences with 
repairing electronically gear during the last 20 years, so you aren't aware 
that vendors have a tendency to make gear less durable and you seemingly don't 
use the computer for tasks, such as real-time audio, real-time CNC etc.. IOW on 
what basis do you define that ASUS mobos are always good? You simply had good 
luck with ASUS mobos and perhaps bad luck with mobos from other companies.


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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 11:03 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> You'll probably reply to "get the last word in," so go ahead and knock
> yourself out.

"use in advance" not very smart regarding to fair play or even smart
manipulating rhetoric. You are god :D! Loser :D!



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread David Guntner
Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> May I ask you how often you repair mobos or any other
> electronically gear? [...] You are trolling because you seemingly
> don't have experiences with repairing electronically gear during the
> last 20 years, so you aren't aware that vendors have a tendency to make
> gear less durable and you seemingly don't use the computer for tasks,
> such as real-time audio, real-time CNC etc.. IOW on what basis do you
> define that ASUS mobos are always good? You simply had good luck with
> ASUS mobos and perhaps bad luck with mobos from other companies.

A) I made no statements whatsoever regarding other brands of motherboards.

B) You don't know jack shit about me, so it's interesting that you would
attack me on that level.

C) For the record, I've been building systems since 1979, many of which
involved the use of a soldering iron.  So yea, I know a thing or two
about about electronic repair. :-)

D) I don't have time to waste on you with further "discussion" on the
subject, and at this point it's OT for this list.  You'll probably reply
to "get the last word in," so go ahead and knock yourself out.




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 19:05 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:38 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> > Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> > >> I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
> > >> worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
> > >> you were going for here, Ralf
> > > 
> > > ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors have
> > > got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for computer
> > > gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did build good HDDs
> > > for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 years. The company
> > > that build everlasting power supplies might use undersized capacitors
> > > now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard to count on. Your milage
> > > seems to vary.
> > 
> > That's an awful lat of supposition based on things you have no way of
> > predicting
> > 
> > All anyone can do is go on information they have, in hand, regarding
> > past performance.  If a company has an established history of turning
> > out good stuff with a reasonable degree of regularity, the odds are that
> > the next thing they turn out will likely also be good.  Can they turn
> > out something bad?  Sure.  But no sane person is going to go with
> > something along the lines of, "Oh, the next one might be bad even though
> > they've got a good track record so far, so I'm not going to take a
> > chance with that new one."
> > 
> > If you've got hard information regarding a particular board in the past
> > being bad (bad for lots of people; a case of "it was a good run but the
> > board I got was bad" simply means you got a bad one out of an otherwise
> > good run), then that's hard information that can contribute to a
> > discussion.  Anything else is just a non-sequitur that only serves to
> > clutter up a conversation on the subject while making no meaningful
> > contribution to it.
> > 
> > In other words, it looks like you're just trolling...
> 
> You're mistaken, I won't take the time and search my mails, but you can
> do it on your own, somewhere in the ubuntu studio or 64 studio or linux
> audio users or linux audio developers archives or any other linux audio
> archive we talked about the ASUS mobo I own and about any mobo of any
> vendor in general. May I ask you how often you repair mobos or any other
> electronically gear? There's nothing wrong when you say that your
> experiences with ASUS mobos are good, but there's also nothing wrong
> when I talk about my knowledge regarding to mobos. You are the troll,
> since you didn't post one evidence that ASUS boards are generally good
> boards. I bought and will buy ASUS boards because I don't have much
> money and ASUS boards are elCheapo mobos and for audio production
> machines it's less expensive to buy ten mobos and to test them than to
> buy one expensive mobo from a company how gives a vague warranty about
> "no issues for audio production". You are trolling because you seemingly
> don't have experiences with repairing electronically gear during the
> last 20 years, so you aren't aware that vendors have a tendency to make
> gear less durable and you seemingly don't use the computer for tasks,
> such as real-time audio, real-time CNC etc.. IOW on what basis do you
> define that ASUS mobos are always good? You simply had good luck with
> ASUS mobos and perhaps bad luck with mobos from other companies.

When my ASUS board was brand new, the integrated ATI graphics already
was outdated! Even if this wouldn't be the case, proprietary ATI drivers
for Linux only will work with some versions of X, so if your mobo comes
with an ATI graphics soon or later you have to use the FLOSS driver and
than you e.g. even can't use GNOME 3, if you should care for
performance. If your ASUS mobo should come without a graphics or an
NVIDI that's better. However, the graphics isn't the only chip on a
mobo.



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:38 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> > On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> >> I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
> >> worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
> >> you were going for here, Ralf
> > 
> > ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors have
> > got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for computer
> > gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did build good HDDs
> > for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 years. The company
> > that build everlasting power supplies might use undersized capacitors
> > now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard to count on. Your milage
> > seems to vary.
> 
> That's an awful lat of supposition based on things you have no way of
> predicting
> 
> All anyone can do is go on information they have, in hand, regarding
> past performance.  If a company has an established history of turning
> out good stuff with a reasonable degree of regularity, the odds are that
> the next thing they turn out will likely also be good.  Can they turn
> out something bad?  Sure.  But no sane person is going to go with
> something along the lines of, "Oh, the next one might be bad even though
> they've got a good track record so far, so I'm not going to take a
> chance with that new one."
> 
> If you've got hard information regarding a particular board in the past
> being bad (bad for lots of people; a case of "it was a good run but the
> board I got was bad" simply means you got a bad one out of an otherwise
> good run), then that's hard information that can contribute to a
> discussion.  Anything else is just a non-sequitur that only serves to
> clutter up a conversation on the subject while making no meaningful
> contribution to it.
> 
> In other words, it looks like you're just trolling...

You're mistaken, I won't take the time and search my mails, but you can
do it on your own, somewhere in the ubuntu studio or 64 studio or linux
audio users or linux audio developers archives or any other linux audio
archive we talked about the ASUS mobo I own and about any mobo of any
vendor in general. May I ask you how often you repair mobos or any other
electronically gear? There's nothing wrong when you say that your
experiences with ASUS mobos are good, but there's also nothing wrong
when I talk about my knowledge regarding to mobos. You are the troll,
since you didn't post one evidence that ASUS boards are generally good
boards. I bought and will buy ASUS boards because I don't have much
money and ASUS boards are elCheapo mobos and for audio production
machines it's less expensive to buy ten mobos and to test them than to
buy one expensive mobo from a company how gives a vague warranty about
"no issues for audio production". You are trolling because you seemingly
don't have experiences with repairing electronically gear during the
last 20 years, so you aren't aware that vendors have a tendency to make
gear less durable and you seemingly don't use the computer for tasks,
such as real-time audio, real-time CNC etc.. IOW on what basis do you
define that ASUS mobos are always good? You simply had good luck with
ASUS mobos and perhaps bad luck with mobos from other companies.


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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread David Guntner
Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
>> I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
>> worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
>> you were going for here, Ralf
> 
> ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors have
> got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for computer
> gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did build good HDDs
> for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 years. The company
> that build everlasting power supplies might use undersized capacitors
> now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard to count on. Your milage
> seems to vary.

That's an awful lat of supposition based on things you have no way of
predicting

All anyone can do is go on information they have, in hand, regarding
past performance.  If a company has an established history of turning
out good stuff with a reasonable degree of regularity, the odds are that
the next thing they turn out will likely also be good.  Can they turn
out something bad?  Sure.  But no sane person is going to go with
something along the lines of, "Oh, the next one might be bad even though
they've got a good track record so far, so I'm not going to take a
chance with that new one."

If you've got hard information regarding a particular board in the past
being bad (bad for lots of people; a case of "it was a good run but the
board I got was bad" simply means you got a bad one out of an otherwise
good run), then that's hard information that can contribute to a
discussion.  Anything else is just a non-sequitur that only serves to
clutter up a conversation on the subject while making no meaningful
contribution to it.

In other words, it looks like you're just trolling...

  --Dave




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature


Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-13 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 22:57 -0800, David Guntner wrote:
> I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
> worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
> you were going for here, Ralf

ASUS mobos have different chip sets, as the mobos of other vendors have
got too. I don't trust generalizations based on experiences for computer
gear, even not my own experiences. The vendor that did build good HDDs
for the last 5 years might build bad HDDs the next 5 years. The company
that build everlasting power supplies might use undersized capacitors
now. IMO there isn't a real quality standard to count on. Your milage
seems to vary.


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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-12 Thread David Guntner
Ralf Mardorf grabbed a keyboard and wrote:
> On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 19:42 -0800, Schlacta, Christ wrote:
>> Asus is a good brand.
> 
> My ASUS mobo doesn't know that it's a good brand for Linux usage.

Given that your motherboard is an inanimate object, it's unlikely that
it knows much of anything. :-)

I build almost exclusively with ASUS motherboards, and every one has
worked just fine with Windows or Linux.  So I'm not exactly sure what
you were going for here, Ralf

 --Dave





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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-12 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 19:42 -0800, Schlacta, Christ wrote:
> Asus is a good brand.

My ASUS mobo doesn't know that it's a good brand for Linux usage.
Perhaps you could give therapy to my M2A-VM HDMI, so that it becomes
aware that it's a good brand for Linux usage. IOW what ever mobo is good
or bad depends to the users needs and to the combinations of chip sets
on the mobo and the connected cards, the cards the OP already owns and
the available slots + the IRQ allocation for those slots.



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Re: Upgrading Computer

2014-02-12 Thread Schlacta, Christ
On Feb 12, 2014 2:32 PM, "Stephen P. Molnar"  wrote:
>
> I am planning on upgrading my Debian Linux tower and am soliciting
comments on the following CPU/Motherboard:
>
>
>
>   AMD FX 8320, 8-core 3.5 GHz, 16.0MB Cache CPU
Sounds fine for most uses.
>
>   ASUS M5 A97 R2.0 Motherboard

Asus is a good brand. I didn't investigate the specific board, but check
Newegg reviews, and make sure the board supports anything you care about. I
look for ecc and vtd/iommu support when I shop.

See if there's either an lts model or "one better" board than that one for
only a tiny bit more.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a
fuzzy set
>
> Foundation for Chemistry   Stochastic and
multivariate
>
> www.FoundationForChemistry.com
>
> (614)312-7528 (c)
>
> Skype:  smolnar1
>
>


Upgrading Computer

2014-02-12 Thread Stephen P. Molnar
I am planning on upgrading my Debian Linux tower and am soliciting comments
on the following CPU/Motherboard:

 

  AMD FX 8320, 8-core 3.5 GHz, 16.0MB Cache CPU

  ASUS M5 A97 R2.0 Motherboard

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a fuzzy
set

Foundation for Chemistry   Stochastic and
multivariate

www.FoundationForChemistry.com

(614)312-7528 (c)

Skype:  smolnar1