Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 23:07:18 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Freitag, 3. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi Because there is no option for it. Oh, come on, it's just a widget :-) Right-click → remove this battery monitor *cough* I don't want to get rid of the applet, I do need it from time to time to switch profiles (which brought me to the problem at hand) and to quickly see the current battery charge. So, in brief: you don't like Powerdevil's layout/UI but still want it to switch between power management profiles. I see the following options: - You can use another applet/plasmoid -instead Powerdevil- to get the job done (whether available). - You can remove the package responsible for hibernation (swsusp/uswsusp) to avoid the computer going into S4 state. I find this approach a little radical, meaning I wouldn't take that path, but that is up to you. Powerdevil just shows you the available features your kernel is detecting and if the kernel can suspend to ram and suspend to disk, Powerdevil just displays both. - You can just take care when clicking Powerdevil applet to avoid pressing the wrong button. I find this the most suitable solution :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.05.14.11...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Friday 03 September 2010 18:47:20 Camaleón wrote: On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:22:52 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Freitag, 3. September 2010 schrieb Lisi: No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi Because there is no option for it. Oh, come on, it's just a widget :-) Right-click → remove this battery monitor My point exactly. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201009040832.05128.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 22:06:33 -0300 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org wrote: On Fri, 03 Sep 2010, Celejar wrote: On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:32:03 -0300 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org wrote: ... That said, I don't trust hybernation. Your data is much safer in the long run if you restrain yourself to suspend-to-RAM and shutdowns. Can you elaborate on this? I have certainly experienced my share of Yes. Suspend-to-disk on Linux x86/amd64 depends on fragile operations, and worse, it requires that the hibernation core and some of the more fiendishly complex kernel subsystems never disagree at all on the details. That can easily result in silent, hard-to-track data corruption when code changes. When you're very lucky, it hoses the kernel or the filesystem metadata in a way which can be easily noticed by some kernel assertion, resulting in an OOPS or warnings. If you're unlucky, it can slowly rot away your filesystem or the data inside it. Restoring from an hibernation image also does nasty things to the ACPI firmware. But at least any problems there are much more likely to cause the box to fail to resume entirely, instead of truly evil stuff like silent filesystem or application memory space corruption. Thanks for the explanation. I use hibernation pretty heavily, and I've never really noticed such problems, but OTOH, I have had my share of system crashes and other such failures, which I've always just chalked up to living on the bleeding edge (Sid, plus git kernels from upstream), but who knows ... or do you mean the much more serious problem of the hibernation image becoming corrupted and the system not realizing this? I though that It is not the hibernation image getting corrupted. It is running system state getting corrupted due to bad interaction between parts of the kernel, or outright kernel bugs. Suspend-to-RAM is much easier to get right (and *keep* right), and far less fragile. I'd love to use s2ram, but I've never gotten it to work on this machine, even with a great deal of time and effort. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100904213355.063d9da7.cele...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thursday 02 September 2010 21:11:33 Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:40:56 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: I meant you can hibernate your computer with any amount of ram available, there are still restoring speed gains in some computers. Your mileage may vary. But you also need as much space on the HDD to store the RAM content, which I don’t really do. Neither do I. I do not use hibernation at all. My point was just stating the fact that it could be useful under some environments/setups regardless the amount of installed memory. OK, then that would belong into the OT realm for this particular thread. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. I have 8 GiB of ram and a cold start takes some minutes :-) Booting to the login screeen takes ~35–40 seconds here. Plus another half minute to load the DE. Usually I am using normal standby (aka suspend to RAM). Powerdevil has no function to disable that feature, which is why I want to disable it one level down in the hierarchy. You mean disable at BIOS level? :-? Well, on my old Gentoo system - naturally with my own, laptop-optimised kernel - I only had Sleep available in Powerdevil, so I figured that the kernel has to (not) support it for the button (not) to show up. I just never bothered finding out how to get S2D working. [...] KDE should not trigger power savings unless you configure for doing so. What you can do is hide/remove the icon No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201009031610.13087.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
Am Freitag, 3. September 2010 schrieb Lisi: No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi Because there is no option for it. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' begin signature_virus Hi! I’m a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature to help me spread. end signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:22:52 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Freitag, 3. September 2010 schrieb Lisi: No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi Because there is no option for it. Oh, come on, it's just a widget :-) Right-click → remove this battery monitor Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.03.17.47...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
Am Freitag, 3. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. I'm still not clear why you cannot just remove it. Lisi Because there is no option for it. Oh, come on, it's just a widget :-) Right-click → remove this battery monitor *cough* I don't want to get rid of the applet, I do need it from time to time to switch profiles (which brought me to the problem at hand) and to quickly see the current battery charge. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' UNIX is not user-unfriendly. It just expects the user to be a little more computer-friendly. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Fri, 03 Sep 2010, Celejar wrote: On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:32:03 -0300 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org wrote: ... That said, I don't trust hybernation. Your data is much safer in the long run if you restrain yourself to suspend-to-RAM and shutdowns. Can you elaborate on this? I have certainly experienced my share of Yes. Suspend-to-disk on Linux x86/amd64 depends on fragile operations, and worse, it requires that the hibernation core and some of the more fiendishly complex kernel subsystems never disagree at all on the details. That can easily result in silent, hard-to-track data corruption when code changes. When you're very lucky, it hoses the kernel or the filesystem metadata in a way which can be easily noticed by some kernel assertion, resulting in an OOPS or warnings. If you're unlucky, it can slowly rot away your filesystem or the data inside it. Restoring from an hibernation image also does nasty things to the ACPI firmware. But at least any problems there are much more likely to cause the box to fail to resume entirely, instead of truly evil stuff like silent filesystem or application memory space corruption. or do you mean the much more serious problem of the hibernation image becoming corrupted and the system not realizing this? I though that It is not the hibernation image getting corrupted. It is running system state getting corrupted due to bad interaction between parts of the kernel, or outright kernel bugs. Suspend-to-RAM is much easier to get right (and *keep* right), and far less fragile. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100904010633.gb21...@khazad-dum.debian.net
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:11:27 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: because I can’t make Powerdevil (KDE’s power management utility) hide the Hibernate button (which I hit accidentially from time to time), I’d like to disable the suspend to disk feature on my system. It’s not practical anyway (it’s a laptop with 3 GB of RAM). Amount of ram should not be a relevant key value for benefiting of hibernation. So what is the proper way of disabling it? A kernel parameter? Some ACPI setting? Suspension/hibernation state is being triggered by events (pressing power button, closing lid or after being idle for an amount of time). Besides, they can be called by hand (manually launching the appropiate command) or automatically by DE (KDE powerdevil may have set some power saving profiles in use). If you are using profiles, just setup one that disables hibernation at all, then apply that profile and you are done. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.02.07.39...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Jo, 02 sep 10, 07:39:09, Camaleón wrote: Amount of ram should not be a relevant key value for benefiting of hibernation. Unless there's something I'm missing, copying the contents of the RAM to HDD and back heavily depends on the total data available in RAM, which tends to be higher depending on the total size of the RAM. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:03:33 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Jo, 02 sep 10, 07:39:09, Camaleón wrote: Amount of ram should not be a relevant key value for benefiting of hibernation. Unless there's something I'm missing, copying the contents of the RAM to HDD and back heavily depends on the total data available in RAM, which tends to be higher depending on the total size of the RAM. I meant you can hibernate your computer with any amount of ram available, there are still restoring speed gains in some computers. Your mileage may vary. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. I have 8 GiB of ram and a cold start takes some minutes :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.02.08.28...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: I meant you can hibernate your computer with any amount of ram available, there are still restoring speed gains in some computers. Your mileage may vary. But you also need as much space on the HDD to store the RAM content, which I don’t really do. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. I have 8 GiB of ram and a cold start takes some minutes :-) Booting to the login screeen takes ~35–40 seconds here. Plus another half minute to load the DE. Usually I am using normal standby (aka suspend to RAM). Powerdevil has no function to disable that feature, which is why I want to disable it one level down in the hierarchy. Another reason is that – as mentioned – sometimes I activate it by accident because the profile popup is right on top of the Hibernate button. Sometimes, that popup disappears right before I click it, hence instead of changing power profile, the laptop takes two or three minutes to recognise that there is not enough space and come back. Yesterday it so happened. Amarok was still playing music, but at some point I was unable to change screens anymore (Shift+Alt+Fx). Only a SysRq+REISUB helped. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' begin signature_virus Hi! I’m a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature to help me spread. end signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:40:56 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: I meant you can hibernate your computer with any amount of ram available, there are still restoring speed gains in some computers. Your mileage may vary. But you also need as much space on the HDD to store the RAM content, which I don’t really do. Neither do I. I do not use hibernation at all. My point was just stating the fact that it could be useful under some environments/setups regardless the amount of installed memory. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. I have 8 GiB of ram and a cold start takes some minutes :-) Booting to the login screeen takes ~35–40 seconds here. Plus another half minute to load the DE. Usually I am using normal standby (aka suspend to RAM). Powerdevil has no function to disable that feature, which is why I want to disable it one level down in the hierarchy. You mean disable at BIOS level? :-? Another reason is that – as mentioned – sometimes I activate it by accident because the profile popup is right on top of the Hibernate button. Sometimes, that popup disappears right before I click it, hence instead of changing power profile, the laptop takes two or three minutes to recognise that there is not enough space and come back. Yesterday it so happened. Amarok was still playing music, but at some point I was unable to change screens anymore (Shift+Alt+Fx). Only a SysRq+REISUB helped. KDE should not trigger power savings unless you configure for doing so. What you can do is hide/remove the icon you are clicking unconsciously that enables hibernation in your system. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.02.16.55...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Jo, 02 sep 10, 07:39:09, Camaleón wrote: Amount of ram should not be a relevant key value for benefiting of hibernation. Unless there's something I'm missing, copying the contents of the RAM to HDD and back heavily depends on the total data available in RAM, which tends to be higher depending on the total size of the RAM. It also depends on whether you drop file-backed pages or not, etc. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. The hybernation image is compressed and stored as single file or inside the swap partition. Accessing that can be a LOT faster than the accesses during doing boot (unless SSDs are involved). That said, I don't trust hybernation. Your data is much safer in the long run if you restrain yourself to suspend-to-RAM and shutdowns. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100902173203.ga1...@khazad-dum.debian.net
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:40:56 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: I meant you can hibernate your computer with any amount of ram available, there are still restoring speed gains in some computers. Your mileage may vary. But you also need as much space on the HDD to store the RAM content, which I don’t really do. Neither do I. I do not use hibernation at all. My point was just stating the fact that it could be useful under some environments/setups regardless the amount of installed memory. OK, then that would belong into the OT realm for this particular thread. This is why on systems with lots of RAM there is no gain in speed by hibernating vs. restarting + session saving. I have 8 GiB of ram and a cold start takes some minutes :-) Booting to the login screeen takes ~35–40 seconds here. Plus another half minute to load the DE. Usually I am using normal standby (aka suspend to RAM). Powerdevil has no function to disable that feature, which is why I want to disable it one level down in the hierarchy. You mean disable at BIOS level? :-? Well, on my old Gentoo system - naturally with my own, laptop-optimised kernel - I only had Sleep available in Powerdevil, so I figured that the kernel has to (not) support it for the button (not) to show up. I just never bothered finding out how to get S2D working. [...] KDE should not trigger power savings unless you configure for doing so. What you can do is hide/remove the icon No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Programmers don’t die, they GOSUB without RETURN. attachment: pd.png signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:11:33 +0200, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: Am Donnerstag, 2. September 2010 schrieb Camaleón: (...) Booting to the login screeen takes ~35–40 seconds here. Plus another half minute to load the DE. Usually I am using normal standby (aka suspend to RAM). Powerdevil has no function to disable that feature, which is why I want to disable it one level down in the hierarchy. You mean disable at BIOS level? :-? Well, on my old Gentoo system - naturally with my own, laptop-optimised kernel - I only had Sleep available in Powerdevil, so I figured that the kernel has to (not) support it for the button (not) to show up. I just never bothered finding out how to get S2D working. Different kernel releases may have different acpi support/ implementantions. I mean, maybe the Gentoo kernel you were using at that time was not able to detect the full capabilities of your board and just enabled suspension and not hibernation. Anyway, I'm not sure how to force acpi being selective for detecting one suspension method and avoid the other :-? [...] KDE should not trigger power savings unless you configure for doing so. What you can do is hide/remove the icon No, I _can't_. That's the whole reason for my asking here. There is no option to hide the button. I've attached a tiny screenie where you can see the problematic combo box and the hibernation (Tiefschlaf) button right underneath. How about hidding the whole Powerdevil applet? If you don't need it at all (it seem you are not usually switching between power management profiles) and makes you click something you want to avoid, I see no reason to having it there. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.02.20.43...@gmail.com
Re: What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:32:03 -0300 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org wrote: ... That said, I don't trust hybernation. Your data is much safer in the long run if you restrain yourself to suspend-to-RAM and shutdowns. Can you elaborate on this? I have certainly experienced my share of hibernation / resume failures, but IIUC, the result is the same as if the system had just crashed - journal recovery is done, etc. Do you mean just the sort of data loss that can result from a crashed system, or do you mean the much more serious problem of the hibernation image becoming corrupted and the system not realizing this? I though that the image integrity is verified by checksums, or some other such method. Or do you mean something else entirely? [Not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand the potential problems here.] Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100903013949.2949cafd.cele...@gmail.com
What's the Debian way of disabling suspend to disk?
Hello List, because I can’t make Powerdevil (KDE’s power management utility) hide the Hibernate button (which I hit accidentially from time to time), I’d like to disable the suspend to disk feature on my system. It’s not practical anyway (it’s a laptop with 3 GB of RAM). So what is the proper way of disabling it? A kernel parameter? Some ACPI setting? Thanks. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' What’s right is right, otherwise it’d be wrong. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
